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Burnt_Water

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Joined: May 16, 2006
Posts: 3092
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Impose artificial limit on top hearties. Reply to this Post
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An artificial maximum of # hearties instead of unlimited hearties shown on pirate page. Plus a link to the top hearties listed, similar to showing off trophies. View Hearty Collection or View Hearties link.

There doesn't really need to be a giant show-off of hearties and may make the game seem less social-network like.

Was thinking of 5, 20, 25 or 50 limits
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Hard and big guide to whack off Brigands
How to make a pirate feel good
[Jan 28, 2008 7:03:00 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    Bored en route? Bring a book or puzzle next time. [Link]  Go to top 
Grayside

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Joined: Aug 17, 2005
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Re: Impose artificial limit on top hearties. Reply to this Post
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I thought making the game more social network-like was the whole point.

I do agree though, the eye-blurring soup of listed hearties makes the page ugly and is useless most of the time. I don't care if random people have bumped into someone I know, and if they display the whole kit an' kaboodle, I can't tell if there's meaning to it. I think 50 might be a reasonable limit- there are pirates out there with 25 legitimate hearties to display. Heck, there are pirates that probably have 75 hearties to display, but the line must be drawn!

How would you limit it to a certain number though? Alphabetically? What if my top top-most hearties are at the beginning and end of the alphabet, and my other display-worthy hearties are in the middle. Does that mean I lose half of my most significant hearties to some buried page? What we actually have here is a need for a 50 slot "Display" list, for yet more hearty management. If that's the direction, let it be a framework to add hearty categorization.

Devil's Advocate time- if the hearty lists are part of the social structure (or puzzle) of the game, then having no displayed hearties or 100 displayed hearties are equivalent to hearty white-noise. It's the player's choice to make some use of the system or not.
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Firestone, Captain, Mad Tea Party, Cobalt
Gallant, PotD, Midnight

[Jan 29, 2008 9:48:50 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://grayside.org/ypp/mayhem    Tires.Pirate [Link]  Go to top 
imwamphyr

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Re: Impose artificial limit on top hearties. Reply to this Post
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I don't believe the resistance to sharing hearties has anything to do with having too many or the page being unbalanced. Those of us who don't share hearties still have a very unbalanced page with a big ugly empty space. Basically, I don't think your proposal will change anything.

In general, and re-reading the very big discussion thread from when public hearties first was introduced seems to show this, we just have two forms of thinking.

We have "modern age" group 1, who grew up with facebook and myspace and things of this nature, in an age where folks are more curious about each other and less inclined to protect their privacy as much. While the reasons they'd want to make their hearty lists available can vary drastically, the common ground in this category is they simply don't see what the big deal is. They've grown up in an era where privacy is not the norm (as you can see in the thread about the recent phone message left by the wife of a school administration employee who was called at home by a student, I believe it's over in shore leave).

Group 2's demographic is entirely different. We're much more used to privacy, for one thing. We also think of all the negative ways in which something might be used, and consider it just not worth the risk. Even *if* you could prove to us, and I say us because I'm solidly in this category myself, that 99% of the usage of my public hearty list would be innocuous, we wouldn't be willing to risk the 1% that isn't. We're not willing to risk any chance at all that any of the following occurring, just to name a few scenarios off the top of my head:

  • Folks using MY hearty list to spam their pillage/event/blockade/cracklantis/whatever.
    While some folks in category 1 have no issues with contacting their hearties en masse for certain events and being contacted themselves in the same manner (often requesting the ability to send a mass hearty tell, for example), many folks in category 2 see that as being just as annoying as having a telemarketer interrupting your dinner. I don't hate you for wanting your "friends to come and play", but from my point of view, I'm perfectly capable of checking the notice boards and/or forums and seeing what is going on, and making the decision if I wish to join or not all on my own, before your tell even comes. So your tell is an annoyance. I won't even contact my own hearties for a pillage/cracklantis trip I'm on. I figure if they were bored, they'd send ME a tell asking if I know of anything interesting going on. If I feel it's rude to bother my hearties myself for things like this, I darn sure don't want some other person looking at my public hearty list for folks to spam.
  • Attempts to scam.
    It's very rare, I think, but most of us have heard at least one story of somebody impersonating somebody else in game. Perhaps to attempt to scam PoE/possessions, perhaps to gain acceptance, perhaps to actually create drama for the person being impersonated. We've even heard recently about an unintentional accidental case of mistaken identity that supposedly occurred and allowed a relatively new player to lead a large ship in blockade and promptly get sunk all because it was assumed they were a player known for prominent blockade nav experience and skill (I still don't know if this even really happened or if the poster just thought it a funny story). Yes, there is a great deal of responsibility on each of us to make sure we are not scammed, and things we can do to avoid it, but we also all know of seemingly experienced mates who knew better and got scammed anyway. I'd rather not make it easy for potential scammers by telling them exactly who to contact when pretending to be me.
  • Name dropping/Clique syndrome/Emo.
    I'm unfairly lumping this all into one category, perhaps, because it all boils down to the same thing. I don't want anybody using my name on their info page as a hearty in an attempt to get inside the good graces of any group, gain acceptance or respect for simply being associated with a name, imply support or approval, or use my "friendship" as a way to validate their personal issues. It's an unfair burden for me to be responsible for so much of your personal identity, frankly. I don't even like the fact that as a society, folks are sometimes judged by "who they know". It's less a point of that, than the fact I'm concerned I'd have more folks specifically seeking me out for this purpose. I don't have too much of a problem with the current levels, perhaps, but I'm concerned that having it public where my name shows on your public hearty list will actually increase the occurrence of these behaviors, and I'm not willing to risk that.
  • Being judged by hearties.
    Fair or not, you are often judged by those you hang out with. It especially happens on the internet because folks attempting to evaluate what kind of person you are have so little information to go on. Especially in the political game, we're forced into using some ingenuity to find new methods trying to extrapolate your *position* on any given subject. I don't particularly want anybody assuming how I'd feel about anything based on who is in my public hearty list, and I especially do not wish to be judged based on the actions some of those hearties may have made. It's bad enough to have to deal with it on a "crew" and "flag" and even to a degree "alliance" level.
  • Grumpy old fart syndrome. Get off my lawn.
    Maybe I'm just a grumpy old fart who guards their privacy aggressively. It's my business who I'm friends with, not yours. Get off my lawn and MYOB. Trying to teach this old dog new tricks isn't worth the effort it requires, IMO, so good luck with that =P


So, there are a lot of other reasons out there. Those are just off the top of my head. You can get more of an idea of the difference between the two main groups, and why, by reading the initial thread regarding those changes, because we had quite an involved discussion over it at the time. The point all this rambling was trying to get to, however, is that each and every person who has assigned their hearty list to be private, has a reason. A specific reason that most likely, in my opinion, would not be affected in the least by your proposal. Our reasons are much more personal, much more related to privacy than any cosmetic properties of our info page. We're just old private farts.
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174 ships, 164 sloops, ALL GRUNIONS!
[Jan 29, 2008 2:10:32 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    Pirate Muroni [Link]  Go to top 
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