• Play
  • About
  • News
  • Forums
  • Yppedia
  • Help
Welcome Guest   | Login
  Index  | Recent Threads  | Register  | Search  | Help  | RSS feeds  | View Unanswered Threads  
  Search  


Quick Go »
Thread Status: Normal
Total posts in this thread: 19
[Add To My Favorites] [Watch this Thread] [Post new Thread]
Author
Previous Thread This topic has been viewed 3197 times and has 18 replies Next Thread
Soar

Member's Avatar


Joined: Sep 12, 2004
Posts: 749
Status: Offline
Atlantean Sea Monster Stats Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Ahoy Mates!

I'm glad to say that this IS a thread containing all (Ok, most of) the stats of the monsters in Atlantis, as apposed to my previous thread on this topic, which was not.

Hmmm, where to start....

I guess with the Thank You's :]

Over the last two weeks many many crews across five oceans were kind enough to let me sail with them as a complete good-for-nothing lazer while I collected this data from the crows-nest. On top of this many other players came forward personally to offer funds, ships, maps and game time to see the project through. I really wish I could name all of the crews and officers I met but I forgot to write down your names.

Sorry! :D

But a massive thank you all the same! If not for you I would have been broke and plankaphobic after my first few days. I would especially like to thank the midnight community though, as this is where well all of the donations came from and most of the testing took place. See this thread .

The tests lasted about two weeks. There were all sorts of numbers recorded. The main goals were:
- Sea monster hit points.
- Sea monster weapon damage.
- T-Haul booty drops.

The hit points were measured by killing lots of sea monsters and recording what it took to do the job over how many turns. This was mostly done by jobbing with Atlantis bound crews and recording from the crows-nest. I would explain to the officers what I was doing before jobbing and most on every one I met was more than happy to have me on board. I reckon I sailed on about 20 voyages like this over the two week period. On average I saw between 5 and 10 monsters killed per voyage. However only about 1 in 4 or 5 of these would be clean enough to use as recorded data. I had to discount any kill that included the following:
- Friendly fire from other monsters.
- More than one rock hit.
- Large amounts of pre-damage.
- Any other overly dubious circumstances.
It could be said that I should have only recorded data from freshly spawned monsters that were killed by the ships weapons alone. However at a guess I would say that counts for about 5 or fewer monsters that are on the final data table for the full two week period. You just don't get that lucky.
So this data, and these results are not accurate beyond all doubt. But it's pretty darn close. Close enough to be as useful to the player as these kind of numbers can be. After all Atlantis is a pretty chaotic place and I really doubt anyone will be plugging sea monsters in to their damage counter.


The weapon damage stats were obtained by the use of sloops (20 HP) and bahglahs (40 HP). I made an overlay scale that could read the damage taken to either vessel type from the larger version of the carpentry damage meter. Yes, yes, I know everyone says that the meter is just an approximation of the damage to a vessel, but we tested the gauge on known damage types and it came up right on the money every time. Besides, if there is one thing computers won't do, it's approximate.
So basically we went in, took the hit, grabbed a screenshot, and tried to live long enough to get back out. We were also careful to drop all carp stations before the hit.
I am now the proud owner of a trunk full of fish.


T-Haul booty drops were measured on later WF observation voyages by carefully watching the booty chest. These were sort of an extra thing I did in the last few days so they are the least accurate of the data collected.


Anyways here are the numbers....

REFERENCE
Hit Points
Sloop : 20
Cutter : 25
War Brig : 50
War Frig : 100
Grand Frig : 120
Damage
Sml CB : 2
Md CB : 3
Lrg CB : 4
Sloop Ram : 1
War Brig Ram : 4
War Frig Ram : 6
Grand Frig Ram : 8


TRIKETOS (all levels)
Booty : 5-15k
Hit Points : 25
Regen : 1/turn (approx)
-=ATTACKS=-
Twin Arrows : 4 (2 each)
Normal Ram : 4
*Super Ram : 12
-=MANEUVERS=-
Double Forward Move.
-=SPECIAL ABILITIES=-
Healing square left upon death.



GORGONYX (all levels)
Booty : 20-35k
Hit Points : 50
Regen : 2-3/turn (approx)
-=ATTACKS=-
Twin Arrows : 6 (3 each)
Normal Ram : 8
*Super Ram : 24
-=MANEUVERS=-
Double Forward Move.
-=SPECIAL ABILITIES=-
Dragoon Deployment (not measured)


ARCHELON (all levels)
Booty : 40-60k
Hit Points : 100
Regen : 4/turn (approx)
-=ATTACKS=-
Normal Ram : 8
-=MANEUVERS=-
In-place Turn
In-place Turn with Tidal (50% of bilge)
-=SPECIAL ABILITIES=-
Nets (destroys all vessel moves)
Dragoon Deployment (not measured)


* I could not find a solid rule to determine if a ram would be a super ram or not. I can say that all super rams I saw happened when either the Triketo's trident or the Gorgonyx's forward shell collided with the ship. This would not always produce a super ram though. I have a feeling it may be a random roll thing.

Level Differences
With no real difference being recorded in damage or hit points I'm pretty sure the levels are separated mainly by AI and availability of maneuvers. They may have different regeneration rates too but more test results would be needed to confirm this. I wish I could have seen more elite gorgonyx or archelon die as the official descriptions of the sea monsters seems to single elites out as being special. Unfortunately these monsters are almost always located around the top of the board and usually cruise with a group so will often take friendly fire. Few Atlantean navigators ever encounter them.

The Data
Here is a link to the data table used to record the various monsters I saw die. Each record was was clean of ambient damage according the rules stated above. Some of them do have small amounts of pre-damage.
Link to Data Table .

That's the long and short of it mates. I'll include all this info in the coming update of QuarterMaster. Wiki are not something I was ever very good at though so if someone could do that for me it would be most helpful :]

Arbedar!
Tailspin
----------------------------------------
[Edit 2 times, last edit by Soar at Jan 19, 2008 9:10:41 PM]
[Jan 19, 2008 6:55:27 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
davsbrander

Member's Avatar


Joined: Sep 5, 2005
Posts: 1673
Status: Offline
Re: Atlantean Sea Monster Stats Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

It was a pleasure to help ye =) feel free to bug me if ye ever need anymore victims to help with stuff again =)

Nice work on this much appreciated
----------------------------------------
Davsbrander
[Jan 20, 2008 9:18:58 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
chupchup

Member's Avatar


Joined: Aug 4, 2006
Posts: 1171
Status: Offline
Re: Atlantean Sea Monster Stats Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

I've fixed up my favorite ship hit points template on the YPPedia to include this data. If anyone is good at images, can we get a little image of the sea monster darts uploaded so I can link to that instead of making a word?

Also, this template is still orphaned since it is not linked to YPPedia articles in a meaningful way. It should probably be included in the ever-growing Ship article and the Damage article. Someday soon.
----------------------------------------
The pirate formerly known as Ljamethyst.

 
I think the Sublime trophy is a happy idea. Sublime is to be celebrated.

[Jan 28, 2008 4:29:05 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://ice.puzzlepirates.com/yoweb/pirate.wm?target=Ljamethyst [Link]  Go to top 
UreMama

Member's Avatar


Joined: Dec 29, 2005
Posts: 806
Status: Offline
Re: Atlantean Sea Monster Stats Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

I should be doing an atlantis run in the next few days specifically for the elite archelon and gorgonyx so if you would like to attend pm me on viridian Kory is the name. Hope you join
----------------------------------------
Kory on all oceans, but specifically Viridian
[Jan 28, 2008 10:24:05 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
sweetnessc

Member's Avatar


Joined: Nov 10, 2004
Posts: 16105
Status: Offline
Re: Atlantean Sea Monster Stats Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Hip hip, hooray! Thanks for doing this, mate.

Re this:

 
* I could not find a solid rule to determine if a ram would be a super ram or not. I can say that all super rams I saw happened when either the Triketo's trident or the Gorgonyx's forward shell collided with the ship. This would not always produce a super ram though. I have a feeling it may be a random roll thing.


From the blockade maneuvers, I'm guessing the super ram is just a special token, and whether or not it's a super ram just depends on whether the AI placed the super ram token or the normal ram token (the difference between the golden double forward blockade maneuver token and the silver one): "Does a double move, but thanks to the heroic efforts of yer crew, yer ship rams as if it were of a larger vessel." (Due to the tedium of earning maneuver tokens I've never tested this, but I imagine the double forward with no room for moving does double the damage of a single forward.)
----------------------------------------
My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world. ~ Jack Layton

Sublime is shame.
----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by sweetnessc at Jan 28, 2008 11:03:51 PM]
[Jan 28, 2008 11:02:59 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Octobeard

Member's Avatar


Joined: Dec 8, 2005
Posts: 337
Status: Offline
Re: Atlantean Sea Monster Stats Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

While you're at it, I'd like to note that Gorgonyx can move four squares normally, even though they are either a Mediem or Large class vessel/creature thingy.
----------------------------------------
PogoBeta wrote: 
NO GODMOGGING

[Jan 29, 2008 7:27:01 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
nitroglyceri



Joined: May 2, 2007
Posts: 214
Status: Offline

Re: Atlantean Sea Monster Stats Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

I havn't been to Atlantis recently, so I can't say for sure, but I'm pretty sure that each level of sea monster has its own level of life. For instance, a scout triketos would surely fall before an elite triketos. The talk: Sea Monster page has a chart that sorta summarizes the shots taken for triketos. From what I've seen from previous trips, the triketos part of the chart seems fairly accurate, to an extent. I can't say for gorgonyx or archelon though.
----------------------------------------
Explosives of Viridian

That guy nobody knows or cares about.
[Jan 29, 2008 7:48:08 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Soar

Member's Avatar


Joined: Sep 12, 2004
Posts: 749
Status: Offline
Re: Atlantean Sea Monster Stats Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
I havn't been to Atlantis recently, so I can't say for sure, but I'm pretty sure that each level of sea monster has its own level of life. For instance, a scout triketos would surely fall before an elite triketos. The talk: Sea Monster page has a chart that sorta summarizes the shots taken for triketos. From what I've seen from previous trips, the triketos part of the chart seems fairly accurate, to an extent. I can't say for gorgonyx or archelon though.


Aye, that Talk page is where I started. You can see my initial post towards the bottom there.

Reading the full page you will find that the data there is unconfirmed and is actually based on a pretty small amount of testing and a few too many assumptions. This is why I decided to run this testing round.

When I started out I thought the same too. I was sure the devs would have given different HP to each level of monster. But after seeing almost 300 of those things go down, and going over the data from only the cleanest of those kills, I'm convinced there is no significant difference between the max HP of the different levels.

I'm also sure that those numbers in the OP are not 100% accurate. But as I said, they are close enough to be of full use to any Atlantis navigator. It would take a great deal more testing to get a data set that was 100% spot on beyond all doubt. However even if someone did this the practical advantage of having those numbers wouldn't be all that hot.

Arbedar!
Tailspin
----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by Soar at Feb 2, 2008 4:45:52 AM]
[Jan 29, 2008 1:16:39 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
DarkLeon

Member's Avatar


Joined: Aug 20, 2005
Posts: 39
Status: Offline
Re: Atlantean Sea Monster Stats Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Alright in the next few days I will be making a comprehensive wiki on Atlantis runs and such I will be looking for as much data as I possibly can. I will credit all thoes who info I find usfull and use. Send me an e-mail with all data if possible numbers and all. Darkleon99@hotmail.com


Edit: Note I will also be making a program to run damage count on Sea monsters with a little knowledge of knowen values.

Thank you,
DarkLeon of Shadow's of Heaven of Sage
----------------------------------------
It's not about the skill but about the want of working hard.
DarkLeon of Sage

Former First Mate of Yellow Turbans
----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by DarkLeon at Jan 31, 2008 4:28:53 AM]
[Jan 31, 2008 4:21:21 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Soar

Member's Avatar


Joined: Sep 12, 2004
Posts: 749
Status: Offline
Re: Atlantean Sea Monster Stats Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
Alright in the next few days I will be making a comprehensive wiki on Atlantis runs and such I will be looking for as much data as I possibly can. I will credit all thoes who info I find usfull and use. Send me an e-mail with all data if possible numbers and all. Darkleon99@hotmail.com


Edit: Note I will also be making a program to run damage count on Sea monsters with a little knowledge of knowen values.

Thank you,
DarkLeon of Shadow's of Heaven of Sage


Pretty much all the info I can offer is on this thread. But let me know if you need something specific.

Good luck!

Arbedar!
Tailspin
[Jan 31, 2008 12:37:56 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
EverclearBoy

Member's Avatar


Joined: Dec 25, 2005
Posts: 250
Status: Offline
Re: Atlantean Sea Monster Stats Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Based on what I've seen the level of each monster doesnt determine its hit points, rather the quality of treasure you'll get from the hauling of sed sink. As stated before the higher up the board you go the greater the treasure type you'll get, thus the Elites at the top, Scouts on the bottom. If you want a better chance at something Atlantean, haul from an Elite. The Elite Archelon since it has more to haul from, provides the greatest chance to haul something very nice.
----------------------------------------
Amberon says, "Tricky little bastards."
Stud at Drinking Competitions says, "umm >.> will u quit for 50% of what i win? >.>"
Everclearboy officer chats "Stud's offering me Half a bird?"
[Feb 2, 2008 8:22:56 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
kgarrett1969

Member's Avatar


Joined: Apr 22, 2005
Posts: 997
Status: Offline
Re: Atlantean Sea Monster Stats Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Thanks for the research. It mostly lines up with what I have observed in my own Atlantis Expeditions. I do have just a few comments to add to your excellent research.

Archelon Nets: Nets do not destroy all moves tokens you have. I'm not sure how many they take but I have on many occasions have had so many tokes available that after one net hits I still have moves and free tokens. If you do not have many move token then yes a net will take them all but a standard net doesn't automatically take them all.

Special Moves: I suspect as someone has already mentioned the special manuevers likely line up with the special manuevers available to navvers in blockades, flotillas and Atlantis. Triketos&Gorgonyx have the Double Move/Ram the Arechelons the Spin and Tidal Wave. They of course only produce their single type and they produce them much faster than player ships do.

Also one thing you didn't mention is the monster flee factor. I have noticed that Monsters tend to flee if they have been delt a severe blow. Assuming for the minute you are in a WF and stay in the entry Zone you will be greeted by an Archelon or a Gorgonyx escorted by 3-5 Triketos. What I have discovered is that if you sink all the Triketos the big monster will run from you. If you kill the Archelon/Gorgonyx and all but two of the Triketos the Triketos will run. I've acutally started trying to avoid killing all the Triketos until I have sank the big monsters especially the Archelons. I do this because I find it easier to deal with monsters when they are coming at you than when you are trying to chase them.

Hopefully my long winded comments will help other navvers as I often find helpful tidbits especially when I read other's posts and comments.

Question for you though. When tracking the booty payouts for sea monsters where were the ships you were on typically located? Were they on top of TH spot next to it or off a corner? I would be courious to know if the amount you can haul is effected by the square you haul from. What I do know is that it takes longer to haul a square which does equates to additional chest opportunities, but really do not know how this equates to the effect on the amount of PoE that can be hauled aboard.

Really excellent research and confirmation of things I have long speculated concerning sea monsters in Atlantis. Any chance you did any research at all with Atlantis spawned Ship Wreck booty? I suspect that ships wrecks in Atlantis spawn about 1-2k each but haven't spent a lot of time tracking it. I'm typcally much more intent on staying alive and sinking monsters.
----------------------------------------
Hawkings
Fleet Officer of Silver Dragons
Citizen of Meridian

Apollo wrote, "Hawkings has changed my life. ;)"
----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by kgarrett1969 at Feb 4, 2008 7:24:09 AM]
[Feb 4, 2008 7:16:15 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Jolyma

Member's Avatar


Joined: Sep 17, 2005
Posts: 8698
Status: Offline
Re: Atlantean Sea Monster Stats Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

As far as I can tell, the only thing the specific square affects is length of hauling needed to finish a carcass. You haul much faster directly on the treasure spot, rather than beside it.
----------------------------------------
Jolyma

Avatar by Sundancer
[Feb 4, 2008 12:58:44 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
B_licker



Joined: Aug 2, 2005
Posts: 1339
Status: Offline

Re: Atlantean Sea Monster Stats Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
Also one thing you didn't mention is the monster flee factor. I have noticed that Monsters tend to flee if they have been delt a severe blow. Assuming for the minute you are in a WF and stay in the entry Zone you will be greeted by an Archelon or a Gorgonyx escorted by 3-5 Triketos. What I have discovered is that if you sink all the Triketos the big monster will run from you. If you kill the Archelon/Gorgonyx and all but two of the Triketos the Triketos will run. I've acutally started trying to avoid killing all the Triketos until I have sank the big monsters especially the Archelons. I do this because I find it easier to deal with monsters when they are coming at you than when you are trying to chase them.

Oooh, this is very good advice. Thanks.
[Feb 4, 2008 1:34:29 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
BehindCurtai

Member's Avatar


Joined: May 25, 2004
Posts: 12589
Status: Offline
Re: Atlantean Sea Monster Stats Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

If the quality of the monster (scout / elite) doesn't determine how hard the monster is to kill, or really much of anything else, then what does playing in the shallow end buy you?

What is supposed to make the shallow end easier? Fewer monsters? (People have complained about being swarmed in there). Weaker monsters? (This thread says that they are the same).

If I'm in the shallow end, hauling, I'll get less treasure from the wimpier monsters. What benefit do I get in return for the cheaper payout?
----------------------------------------
"We're trying to find the error bars on that number"

Dylan wrote: 
Why buy sham poo when real poo is so readily available

[Feb 4, 2008 8:15:09 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://StrictConstitution.BlogSpot.Com [Link]  Go to top 
Fiddler

Member's Avatar


Joined: Mar 4, 2004
Posts: 4619
Status: Offline
Re: Atlantean Sea Monster Stats Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Less aggressive monsters?
----------------------------------------
Orsino, Viridian ocean
Forum-mute: your best friend
Whitewyvern wrote: 
The only high end goals are those you set for yourself. What happens to anyone else is irrelevant.

[Feb 4, 2008 8:19:42 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    Avatar by Stimmhorn [Link]  Go to top 
Barrister

Member's Avatar


Joined: Dec 2, 2003
Posts: 1997
Status: Offline
Re: Atlantean Sea Monster Stats Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

More scouts and fewer elites. That means the monsters heal slower, making them easier to kill.
----------------------------------------
Barrister
- YPPedia Administrator
- Looterati
[Feb 5, 2008 12:27:05 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Soar

Member's Avatar


Joined: Sep 12, 2004
Posts: 749
Status: Offline
Re: Atlantean Sea Monster Stats Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
If the quality of the monster (scout / elite) doesn't determine how hard the monster is to kill, or really much of anything else, then what does playing in the shallow end buy you?

What is supposed to make the shallow end easier? Fewer monsters? (People have complained about being swarmed in there). Weaker monsters? (This thread says that they are the same).

If I'm in the shallow end, hauling, I'll get less treasure from the wimpier monsters. What benefit do I get in return for the cheaper payout?


I'm not really sure.

All I can say is that the max HP and the weapon damage does not vary over the the different levels. Unless of course regeneration doesn't exsist and what we are seeing are monsters being generated with a random number of HP within a specified range. That's one of the possibilities I couldn't discount. However regeneration made more sense as it would allow monsters to refresh between attacks and reduce death from all those friendly bumps and rocks when no players were there.

The only thing it left is AI, regeneration rates, and maneuver generation. All of which I could not collect enough data to determine decisively.

Regarding the shallow and deep ends...

I noticed that on almost all the observation runs there would be fewer and smaller monsters in the shallow end. Usually 1 or 2 Triks, with an occasional Gorg, always scouts and light. Mid-board is where you we would start encountering Archies and swams of around 2 to 6 in total. The upper end had a lot of monsters. It was rare to see less than 6 in the upper half. Elites usually swim there too.
That is all from general observation though.

Arbedar!
Tailspin
----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by Soar at Feb 5, 2008 12:37:28 AM]
[Feb 5, 2008 12:34:13 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Octobeard

Member's Avatar


Joined: Dec 8, 2005
Posts: 337
Status: Offline
Re: Atlantean Sea Monster Stats Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
If the quality of the monster (scout / elite) doesn't determine how hard the monster is to kill, or really much of anything else, then what does playing in the shallow end buy you?

What is supposed to make the shallow end easier? Fewer monsters? (People have complained about being swarmed in there). Weaker monsters? (This thread says that they are the same).

If I'm in the shallow end, hauling, I'll get less treasure from the wimpier monsters. What benefit do I get in return for the cheaper payout?

The deeper you go, the worse Dragoons attack. Most crews have trouble beating Bellators, and stand little chance against the higher ranks.
----------------------------------------
PogoBeta wrote: 
NO GODMOGGING

[Feb 5, 2008 7:07:35 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
[Show Printable Version of Thread] [Post new Thread]

Puzzle Pirates™ © 2001-2020 Grey Havens, LLC All Rights Reserved.   Terms · Privacy · Affiliates