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54x

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GCPP Construction proposal Reply to this Post
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So, I had an idea I thought was pretty neat for a construction puzzle, which seemed pretty underserved so far in the proposals.

I haven't yet picked out a fishname or so on, but I have made some piece graphics, thought about the technicalities of the background, and thought about the design issues raised around co-operative puzzles in general. I want to get some more feedback on the basic design before I start hammering things out more carefully. Other than the art I've already done, I'm mostly interested in the design aspects. I can't code beyond markup, so that's out :)

It started with me considering my favourite two puzzles, Distilling and Shipwrightery, and the general goal of organising pieces.

This puzzle is essentially "softly" co-operative: It's a solo puzzle with additional rules for multiplayer play.



The puzzle operates on a hexagonal field of play, where the outer parts of each person's puzzle are actually swappable by other players onto their board. I'm thinking for now the simplest method for placing players would be to assign them to groups of three, which would mean all players in the group "touch boards" with each other simultaneously. If necessary said groups of three can be scaled together to form larger groups and utilise all the puzzle edges.

The green hexes here are squares only you have access to. The blue ones are your partners' hexes that you may swap to, and the white ones are your hexes that other people can use.

It's also possible to put NPPs who just randomly move and clear pieces in any non-filled slots to keep the swappability of those areas open.

Some other miscellenous things: The grey portrait standins would use the standard carousing faces. The shoppe in the bottom left corner would be gradually constructed out of pieces as you cleared combos, representing how close to finishing a labour hour you are. The multicoloured meter would measure rust as a way of making solvability impractical. I'm undecided if it would advance on piece moves, time, or both.



Okay, here's my enormous pieces diagram. A summary:

Basic pieces
Wood: Moves sideways, clears in adjacent horizontal lines.
Brass: Moves ne/sw, clears in adjacent ne/sw diagonal lines.
Stone: Moves nw/ne/sw/se, clears in adjacent vertical zig-zags.
Cloth: "Jumps" in all directions as if it's weaving through the grid, moving two rows, even moving along the vertical lines. Clears in diamond/circle shapes.
Rope: Moves nw/se, clears in adjacent nw/se diagonal lines.
Special pieces
Iron: Iron is a mimic piece. When you put it adjacent to another piece in the same clearing pattern, it clears too, and for a lot more points per piece. Iron doesn't move on its own- it can only be swapped by other pieces moving into its hex.
Iron can chain with several of the same shape, as long as it's still an adjacent part of the set.
Silver: Silver is essentially a special case of iron. Silver pieces come anywhere from a full wildcard to merely half silver. Line up any side of the piece with a set you're about to clear, and any silvered sides touching iron will clear all adjacent iron regardless of what shape it's in.
Rust: Rust shows up when you take too long, and also will show up randomly on higher difficulties in very small amounts. Rust is completely immobile and cannot be swapped at all, like gold in shipwrightery. Rust clears like iron, but doesn't add to the value of your set at all.

More scoring notes:
Doubles: A set that clears two different types of basic piece is a double, and the value of all pieces cleared is multiplied. Doubles are announced as "4x4" to "4x9" as appropriate.

Sets involving special pieces also announce their quality in this order:
Shiny! (a silver was used to wildcard clear some iron)
Rusted... (rust was cleared for no extra points)
Solid^x! (x groups of adjacent iron were cleared mimicing one of the basic shapes in your set)

When you clear a set, it is replaced randomly. Silver is probably going to be a reward for making quantity or quality of cross-board swaps.

Iron is essentially what makes the scoring complex and stops it from being a "clear one, clear one, clear one" cascade. Right now I'm not sure how that will play out. Combo sets without iron only exist up to a double, as you can only possibly clear two types of tiles at once. Iron combos chain like crystal clears, but you are limited by your boardspace.
Iron chains should probably be limited to not crossing between boards.


I also entertained the idea of gems that required more complex settings around them, but that sounded too similar for shipwrightery and I thought that with iron combos, the puzzle concept might be deep enough already.

Wikification and storyboard if I feel more confident about the idea. :)
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Diamondblade, Cartographer, Crimson Tide.
from Midnight.
Dear sir or madam can you read my book, it took me years to write, will you take a look?
[Jun 23, 2007 8:58:43 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.mjwhitehead.com/    raasike54    secondlight5454    32987700 [Link]  Go to top 
Uikur

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Re: GCPP Construction proposal Reply to this Post
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great! a new proposer! now then, this game seems too much like shipwrighting to me. perhaps you could, i don't know, change some pieces, how they move, that stuff? i mean, you could alway have the same pieces but have them do more of a jump around kind of movement, or have sling bonuses that send them flying to the edge of a place.
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Just my thoughts.

Check out my proposal (Project Compere) here. Feedback and/or a coder is requested!

Irinam of Viridian.
[Jun 23, 2007 6:26:05 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Uikur

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Re: GCPP Construction proposal Reply to this Post
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great! a new proposer! now then, this game seems too much like shipwrighting to me. perhaps you could, i don't know, change some pieces, how they move, that stuff? i mean, you could alway have the same pieces but have them do more of a jump around kind of movement, or have sling bonuses that send them flying to the edge of a place.


sorry for double post. forgot the 1337 translation! here it is:

gr347! 4 n3w pr0p023r! n0w 7h3n, 7hi2 64m3 233m2 700 much 1ik3 2hipwri6htin6 70 m3. p3rh4p2 y0u c0u1d, i d0n'7 kn0w, ch4n63 20m3 pi3c32, h0w 7h3y m0v3, 7h47 27uff? i m34n, y0u c0u1d 41w4y h4v3 7h3 24m3 pi3c32 bu7 h4v3 7h3m d0 m0r3 0f 4 jump 4r0und kind 0f m0v3m3n7, 0r h4v3 s1in6 b0nu232 7h47 23nd 7h3m f1yin6 70 7h3 3dg3 0f 4 p14c3.
----------------------------------------
Just my thoughts.

Check out my proposal (Project Compere) here. Feedback and/or a coder is requested!

Irinam of Viridian.
[Jun 23, 2007 6:32:59 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
54x

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Re: GCPP Construction proposal Reply to this Post
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great! a new proposer! now then, this game seems too much like shipwrighting to me. perhaps you could, i don't know, change some pieces, how they move, that stuff? i mean, you could alway have the same pieces but have them do more of a jump around kind of movement, or have sling bonuses that send them flying to the edge of a place.


Sling bonuses for going off the edge? Yeah, I was indeed thinking of that as I mentioned under the piece for silver, but seeing you'd have other player's boards off the edge, I thought you'd still be required to actually meet the usual clearing rules- otherwise we'd have people mucking up each other's boards just for the swapping bonuses! This is the sense in which the puzzle is co-operative- you can work together to make a double across the edge of the board to earn silver pieces. Seeing I envisioned that you'd only be able to "pick up" pieces on your side of the board, there'd be a certain amount of back-and-forth to rearrange both player's edges favourably. I imagine that any player who's started making Doubles and Solids will be ready for this co-operative tactic, and eventually the puzzle might be played in "teams" in order to produce really good cross-board sets and make the more highly valued silver pieces.

As to the similarity of wood, iron, silver, and rust to shipwrightery- I only actually realised this as I was detailing rust on the forums. I came up with the movement styles looking for a combination of pieces that were easy to understand and represent graphically, with some that were "hard" to move and some that were easier, that would lead to interesting combinations. I think much like similar mechanics between say sailing and swordfighting, or swordfighting and rumble, it's worth trying first to see if it's different enough. If not, I have plenty of ideas for new pieces and piece mechnics.

Also, keep in mind that while some pieces are familiar or otherwise easy, I'd intended the scoring mechanism to value harder pieces higher when you clear a set, with clearing iron bringing in the best bonus, and higher rated puzzlers getting more iron to work with, making their swapping harder.

Also, given that there are always the same pattrns, there's a lot less random luck involved in higher-scoring sets than you get in Shipwrightery, where pretty much anything beyond a Vegas is accident. In fact, the only points you can score due to random luck is by accidentally getting a "cascade", and it would even be possible to program the puzzle to avoid those if you wanted to avoid accidental sets entirely. (I'd be tempted to leave them in to encourage people to pay attention to what pieces are around the edge of their sets)

With that explained... is having a few of the pieces using similar move mechanics still an issue?
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Diamondblade, Cartographer, Crimson Tide.
from Midnight.
Dear sir or madam can you read my book, it took me years to write, will you take a look?
[Jun 24, 2007 1:56:45 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.mjwhitehead.com/    raasike54    secondlight5454    32987700 [Link]  Go to top 
tcarr

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Re: GCPP Construction proposal Reply to this Post
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Shipwrightery on a hex grid would be different enough to be worth investigating, IMO. This proposal is a bit farther from that, if I understand it correctly.
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LordKalvan of Otherwhen, all oceans but mostly Midnight
[Jun 24, 2007 4:59:24 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
54x

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Re: GCPP Construction proposal Reply to this Post
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Shipwrightery on a hex grid would be different enough to be worth investigating, IMO. This proposal is a bit farther from that, if I understand it correctly.


Alrighty, thanks for the perspective! :) I'll pick a fish name and wikify this sometime tomorrow hopefully, and work on some sample gameplay with pictures.
----------------------------------------
Diamondblade, Cartographer, Crimson Tide.
from Midnight.
Dear sir or madam can you read my book, it took me years to write, will you take a look?
[Jun 24, 2007 7:13:09 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.mjwhitehead.com/    raasike54    secondlight5454    32987700 [Link]  Go to top 
Cappy_Joe

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Re: GCPP Construction proposal Reply to this Post
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This is too complicated, I can't understand it :-/

But I believe it's because I'm tired. I'll try figuring it out tomorrow morning :D
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People are crazing out, they focus on hatred and jealousy. What's more is that the rest just use the current state as an excuse to join the norm. I just wish hatred halts, and jealousy stops: we are far more than just lucky to be alive...
[Jun 24, 2007 12:38:43 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
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