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kierra214

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Re: Logical Crafting: Platy contestant feedback thread Reply to this Post
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Another random idea: Have bonus tiles change positions randomly after each clear. This way unused bonus tiles won't start congregating at the top of the board.


I actually like the ability to manipulate the position of the bonus tile. Removing the non-bonus pieces in between two bonus tiles, so that the next loop uses both of them at once, is a strategic decision I'd like to keep.

In that case, I think it would be better if cleared special tiles reappeared either in the new tiles that come from the bottom or if they reappeared randomly around the board after the bottom tiles are replaced. The current setup of having then appear randomly and then replacing the other tiles, makes them end up in the top half of the board almost all the time. I think it would make the game more interesting if they ended up spread out more, thus needing the tile manipulation you are envisioning much more often.
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Magrat
SO of Polish War Fog
Viridian
[Jun 16, 2007 7:21:32 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Uikur

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what, 5th question? what in the seven seas is a twist?
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Just my thoughts.

Check out my proposal (Project Compere) here. Feedback and/or a coder is requested!

Irinam of Viridian.
[Jun 16, 2007 7:25:09 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
kierra214

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Another thing that may not be obvious right now is that looping through a bonus piece twice (either a twist, or through two unconnected threads on the same tile) will count that bonus tile twice. I've managed to make a few loops that score as if I had used six or seven bonus tiles.

I assume you're going to add the Vegas messages for this eventually, because currently they don't seem to be implemented. The two times I managed to use one bonus tile twice while going through all the other bonus tiles, I didn't get any message.
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Magrat
SO of Polish War Fog
Viridian
[Jun 16, 2007 7:34:42 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
kierra214

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Re: Logical Crafting: Platy contestant feedback thread Reply to this Post
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what in the seven seas is a twist?

It's when the loop crosses over itself. Like this:

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Magrat
SO of Polish War Fog
Viridian
[Jun 16, 2007 7:40:52 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
tcarr

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Re: Logical Crafting: Platy contestant feedback thread Reply to this Post
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sorry for all the questions, but, is there a difficulty scaling for the contest game?


Use the version linked from here:
http://www.watersleeps.org/guppy/event/platy.html

Click the Play Now! link, not the Main Platy Website link.

To change levels, you click Options.
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LordKalvan of Otherwhen, all oceans but mostly Midnight
[Jun 16, 2007 7:41:43 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Uikur

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Thx kierra. tcarr, I know how to play it. I'm asking if there's any way to tell the difference between lvl 3, 4, and 5.
----------------------------------------
Just my thoughts.

Check out my proposal (Project Compere) here. Feedback and/or a coder is requested!

Irinam of Viridian.
[Jun 16, 2007 9:23:44 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
tcarr

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Thx kierra. tcarr, I know how to play it. I'm asking if there's any way to tell the difference between lvl 3, 4, and 5.


Sorry, I didn't understand your question. The logic puzzle is written so that you can figure out which level (of 3, 4, and 5) from those clues, because I couldn't do it myself from just looking at the boards. Pletoo said that she can recognize a level 3 board by looking at it, so it's possible that there's a way to distinguish levels 4 and 5 as well.
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LordKalvan of Otherwhen, all oceans but mostly Midnight
[Jun 16, 2007 9:47:30 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Patetch

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Re: Logical Crafting: Platy contestant feedback thread Reply to this Post
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I won't say too much, but I will mention that when I tested the puzzle for LordKalvan, I found a useful resource on the GCPP round 2 proposal page. Maybe that will help. :D
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Pletoo of Sage
[Jun 16, 2007 10:02:42 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Jes_Roo

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Another random idea: Have bonus tiles change positions randomly after each clear. This way unused bonus tiles won't start congregating at the top of the board.

I actually like the ability to manipulate the position of the bonus tile. Removing the non-bonus pieces in between two bonus tiles, so that the next loop uses both of them at once, is a strategic decision I'd like to keep.

In that case, I think it would be better if cleared special tiles reappeared either in the new tiles that come from the bottom or if they reappeared randomly around the board after the bottom tiles are replaced. The current setup of having then appear randomly and then replacing the other tiles, makes them end up in the top half of the board almost all the time. I think it would make the game more interesting if they ended up spread out more, thus needing the tile manipulation you are envisioning much more often.


I agree with Magrat here, in that it's annoying for all of the bonus tiles to end up at the top of the puzzle. Adding them at the bottom after the new tiles have been placed is a good idea that will keep them from getting up there so quick. :)
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JesRoo
First Mate of Eloquent & Princess of Cold Steel on Midnight
Owner of Jesroo's Ironworking and Apothecary Stalls on Gaea
 
You're in the pay of the Weaving Syndicate, you are! Hempmonger! - The Dread Pirate Chris

[Jun 16, 2007 6:16:33 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Jes_Roo

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I want to revise my answer to the "is this puzzle fun" question.

Once I figured out that I could change the number of moves, it became a LOT more fun! The biggest problem I have with the limited moves is the severity of the penalty. If you spend 50 moves setting up a giant complicated loop, then it is very disheartening to see your work completely disappear with the penalty.

My previous suggestion was to make the number of moves infinite and count each move against the total score. Now I have a different suggestion: at 50 moves, add a random non-movable piece to the board, and then another one (or 2) at each subsequent 10-move interval. At 100 moves, then do the penalty.
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JesRoo
First Mate of Eloquent & Princess of Cold Steel on Midnight
Owner of Jesroo's Ironworking and Apothecary Stalls on Gaea
 
You're in the pay of the Weaving Syndicate, you are! Hempmonger! - The Dread Pirate Chris

[Jun 16, 2007 6:44:39 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Jes_Roo

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Re: Logical Crafting: Platy contestant feedback thread Reply to this Post
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Me again.

I have timed a few games. It seems to take between 7 & 8 minutes per game, with the tiles columns set at 25. This is a very good length for a crafting puzzle.
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JesRoo
First Mate of Eloquent & Princess of Cold Steel on Midnight
Owner of Jesroo's Ironworking and Apothecary Stalls on Gaea
 
You're in the pay of the Weaving Syndicate, you are! Hempmonger! - The Dread Pirate Chris

[Jun 16, 2007 6:47:44 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Sagefire135



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* Was the quickstart helpful in learning how to play?
Indeed it was, it gives you a basic idea of what things do and what your objective is. It's a big turnoff if you start a game without knowing what your supposed to do.

* What is the addiction factor?
I would have to say that it gets more addicting as you get good at it. At first it seemed boring because i wasn't good at spotting loops and making sure you include the gatepieces, after you get the hang of it and recognize patterns it becomes alot of fun and i kept going back to try and do better.
* Separate from the addiction, is playing the game fun?
I am a sucker for simple games, nothing is better than a good game of tetris. that being said, this game is simple and whether it be your first time playing or the 100th time, its still fun.
* Does the analogy work for weaving? With a change in graphics, would this work better as a furnishing puzzle?
When i hear weaving, i imagine vertical strings rather than loops. Loops certainly work for weaving just not as well in my mind. I will say that it is a better representation of weaving than furnishing however.
* Did it make sense why the game ended when it did?
It seems to end when you are unable to make loops and you run out of moves. that makes sense to me, except that it seems redundant to be able to continue making moves if you cant make loops. Ending the game when you cant make anymore loops sounds more reasonable to me.
* How hard was it for you to spot loops when you first started playing?
Dreadfully hard, i just started somewhere and kept adding tiles only to find that i couldn't complete the loop. eventually i said "this has got to stop" and started looking for patterns instead. after i did that it was MUCH easier to spot loops.
* Was it easy enough to pick up on the first level?
frustrating at first, but once you figure everything out for yourself its easy enough.
* Approximately how long does it take you to play a typical game on a given level? Does this time feel too long, too short, or about right?
level 1 goes pretty fast i think, theres only so many combinations to make loops. at level 5 though, it takes a while to finish. i would suggest to have unlimited number of tiles and end the game after a certain number of loops is completed.
* What is your favorite part of the game?
I really like looking for patterns, clicking to complete the loops gets a little aggravating when you know exactly where the loop is going to be, but you have to move the pieces, and repete over and over and over.



* The current scoring focuses mostly on the number of colors used in each loop. Would a scoring formula based on the length of each loop make more sense?
i think a combanation of length, and number of colors would be the most logical way to score. otherwise people could just keep making single loops of the same color without putting much though into it, especially on the lower levels.
* If you do think this would work for furnishing, what colors and patterns would you suggest for the pieces. There are up to five basic colors, plus two special colors.
i honestly don't see how it is better fit for furnishing.
* What could be done to make the game easier to learn?
it seems pretty easy to learn already, i like how its done withotu any changes.
* What could make it more challenging on the harder levels?
ohhh fun fun. you could have immovable pieces, pieces that move on their own, pieces that combine 2 strands into one. between those the harder levels would be more like impossible, but they are just ideas.
* If you played around with the move and column counts, what levels made for a more satisfying game? Did those numbers change if you played at different levels?
i didn't mess with those options, but i don't like the finite amount of tiles much. see bottom of the post for a better explanation.
* What combination of level/colors/moves & column count makes for the best beginner game? The most challenging high-level game?
fewer colors and more moves is best for a beginner, and more colors and less moves is best for a more expert player. no surprise there.
* Would an occasional "wildcard" piece add or detract from the overall game? In the current color-based scoring it would significantly increase your color score - what could a similar piece do for a length-based scoring system?
a wildcard piece would be useful, but i dont think it is really needed. if you were to add one, i think it would be better to have say, 5 wildcards that you can place wherever you want instead of having them randomly appear in places that you wouldn't necessarily need them


the one major thing that i want to see changed is the stupid change direction icon. its a bit annoying to have to click it whenever you want to change a direction. instead id like to see it changed to where a right mouse click rotates it counterclockwise, and a leftclick rotates it clockwise.

as i said earlier, having the tiles disappear from columns is annoying, because you tend to use the middle pieces more often, you get a verticle hole and once its there, making loops just isnt going to happen unless you have just the right pieces, which often, you dont. one obvious solution is to give an infinite number of tiles. another would be instead of 25 tiles per column, have 150 total and it fills the columns as needed to try to keep the holes from appearing.

overall i do like the game, but if it were implemented i don't think it would be one of the most frequently played ones by me.
[Jun 16, 2007 9:59:16 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
marie61

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ok, more of my opinions:
~i don't think it is any easier or harder to make a long loop with twists
~color based scoring doesn't encourage long loops - without any bonus pieces, a player using a 3 color board making a 6 piece 1 color loop would score 180 [6^2/6 *3/1*10 ] and a 15 piece loop using 5 of each color would score 50 [(5^2+5^2+5^2)/15 *3/3*10 ). base score difficulty multiplier score potential unless i made a math mistake :)
~since strategy requires understanding scoring, consistancy in descriptions would make it easier to understand. is the highlighted piece "bonus piece" or "special piece?" what is a "raw" score? the same as the base score?
AND, in trying to determine if it is better to try to "trap" pieces or not, is the difficulty multiplier for the second "loop" determined by the color(s) of only the trapped pieces ?
"Pieces trapped inside of a loop that get cleared away should be counted as another loop being cleared away on the same move with the same scoring proportion as the loop actually formed. For example: A 24 piece loop scores 160 points on the clear. Ten pieces trapped inside are used to tabulate the score for another loop. 16 {raw score} /24 {potential raw score} = 0.6667 x 100 {the raw scoring potential of ten pieces} = 67 * (difficulty multiplier) additional points."
~now, add about 10 minutes to my estimated time to complete a board on level 3 to allow for computation ........
~if wild cards are added, they should be for length or color but not some of each since the basic strategy is so different.
~moves should be added to the counter based on colors used (with the present scoring method) and not loop length
~What combination of level/colors/moves & column count makes for the best beginner game? The most challenging high-level game? again, this depends on if the color based scoring is retained. if so, beginners will probably do best with just 2 colors and level 1 or 2, with a low column and high move count, maybe 10 and 50. as for advanced levels, are "goals" still being considered? and will the number of bonus pieces vary? i really can't make a decision on which would be the most challenging without actually trying all the possibilities.
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Armillaria on all oceans
SO Moose of Doom, Cerulean


Yes, I am an agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial.
[Jun 17, 2007 10:56:05 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
tcarr

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Platy round is now officially closed. Winner and any runners-up should be announced on Tuesday if not sooner.
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LordKalvan of Otherwhen, all oceans but mostly Midnight
[Jun 17, 2007 12:02:34 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
tcarr

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Solution is now posted

Congratulations to the winners of the Platy round! We had four players who submitted correct solutions, good explanations, and also gave significant feedback on Platy.

The winner of the sloop "Puzzled Platy" is Jesroo of Midnight. But it was an extremely difficult judgment to make. Because of the closeness of the tie, Magrat of Viridian wins her choice of either pie or cake (or accumulate for larger prize at end of the event).

The other two runners-up are
  • Armillaria of Midnight
  • Sagefire of Viridian
Each of these runners-up will get a cookies trinket (your choice of regular or chocolate chip).

Each runner-up should contact me via PM or email, providing several possible days and times that would be convenient for collecting your cookies. I'll get back to you on which one suits my own schedule.

If you plan to enter more rounds of Logical Crafting, and just want to let any prizes ride for a while, tell me so I can save your cookies. Don't want them to get stale.... ;-) If you have three not-yet-picked-up cookies, you may choose pie or cake instead.

This page will remain online indefinitely, with the version of Platy that makes the logic puzzle work correctly.
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LordKalvan of Otherwhen, all oceans but mostly Midnight
[Jun 18, 2007 10:48:23 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Uikur

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Umm... I believe that there's something wrong... Not sure, and it's NOT logic like last time. I believe that, considering that in Jesroo's explanation he never said the 2 words that Pogo could make, I should be a runner up (my logic wasn't the best explanation), even though I didn't say the 2 words in my first email (I said them in a reply in hopes it would be accepted). My email is shiyaru900@yahoo.com. Please, tell me why I'm not a runner up (at least) if Jesroo's a winner when he didn't say the 2 words.
----------------------------------------
Just my thoughts.

Check out my proposal (Project Compere) here. Feedback and/or a coder is requested!

Irinam of Viridian.
[Jun 18, 2007 11:40:26 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
tcarr

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I did not post all of Jesroo's solution by any means. Both Jesroo and Magrat gave excellent full explanations as well as extremely useful feedback to this thread.

Your entry not only forgot the two words, but the explanation given was extremely weak. If you want a chance at runner-up, you need to be a lot more specific than
 
First, I created a chart, listing pirate, level,
combo, screen, number of colors, sum of colors and
level, and product of colors and level.

Next, I filled in the pirate names, using the
different clues.

Next, I filled in what combos I did know.
.... etc.


When you fill in the pirate names using the clues, explain which clue you use to determine which name. You need an explanation that somebody else could read and say "oh, so THAT'S how it could be solved! I see it now!"
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LordKalvan of Otherwhen, all oceans but mostly Midnight
[Jun 18, 2007 12:03:51 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Uikur

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alright thx for letting me know what I need
----------------------------------------
Just my thoughts.

Check out my proposal (Project Compere) here. Feedback and/or a coder is requested!

Irinam of Viridian.
[Jun 18, 2007 1:22:16 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
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