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tcarr

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Logical Crafting: Platy contestant feedback thread Reply to this Post
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This thread is for feedback on Platy for those entering the Logical Crafting event. The logic puzzle part will be posted on June 15th; see the thread in Events for details. One lucky winner will get a sloop named either "Logical Platy", "Puzzled Platy" or "Crafty Platy", on any ocean. Runners-up (if any) will get a small prize as well (in round one it was chocolate chip cookies). In addition, the winner and any runners-up will have the option of choosing one of the pirate names to be used in the fourth logic puzzle.

Go here to start.

After you are familiar with Platy, you can start posting your feedback to this thread. Please do not spam the thread, but you are definitely encouraged to post multiple times, as you think of new things to say. Fiddler will reply to some of the design comments, and JD will reply to some of the programming comments. Fiddler and Tcarr will each read every single post, even if we do not reply.

Please note that Platy is a Flash prototype. You will need the latest Flash plug-in for it to work.

Easy questions (one or two points each):
  • Was the quickstart helpful in learning how to play?
  • What is the addiction factor? Do you have to force yourself to play it a few more times in order to give decent feedback, or does it tempt you to keep playing when you have other things to do? (or somewhere in the middle)
  • Separate from the addiction, is playing the game fun?
  • Does the analogy work for weaving? With a change in graphics, would this work better as a furnishing puzzle?
  • Did it make sense why the game ended when it did?
  • How hard was it for you to spot loops when you first started playing?
  • Was it easy enough to pick up on the first level?
  • Approximately how long does it take you to play a typical game on a given level? Does this time feel too long, too short, or about right?
  • What is your favorite part of the game?
More challenging questions (points awarded based on usefulness of answer):
  • The current scoring focuses mostly on the number of colors used in each loop. Would a scoring formula based on the length of each loop make more sense?
  • If you do think this would work for furnishing, what colors and patterns would you suggest for the pieces. There are up to five basic colors, plus two special colors.
  • What could be done to make the game easier to learn?
  • What could make it more challenging on the harder levels?
  • If you played around with the move and column counts, what levels made for a more satisfying game? Did those numbers change if you played at different levels?
  • What combination of level/colors/moves & column count makes for the best beginner game? The most challenging high-level game?
  • Would an occasional "wildcard" piece add or detract from the overall game? In the current color-based scoring it would significantly increase your color score - what could a similar piece do for a length-based scoring system?
  • If you spot bugs, please report them. If you can tell how to reproduce the bug, it is worth more points.
  • If there is something that you think would significantly help the game, please post about it as well.
Deadline for entries to this thread is noon Pacific, Sunday June 17th.
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LordKalvan of Otherwhen, all oceans but mostly Midnight
[Jun 8, 2007 5:55:58 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
marie61

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Re: Logical Crafting: Platy contestant feedback thread Reply to this Post
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a preliminary question-what is the purpose of this:
"Every twist in the loop reduces the y value of the scoring equation by one."
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Armillaria on all oceans
SO Moose of Doom, Cerulean


Yes, I am an agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial.
[Jun 8, 2007 1:24:08 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Fiddler

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marie61 wrote: 
a preliminary question-what is the purpose of this:
"Every twist in the loop reduces the y value of the scoring equation by one."

That's not currently implemented but I'll do my best to explain.

With the current scoring, a six piece loop comprised of one color has a base score of 6 (Six squared equals 36, dvided by 6 equals six). Comprised of two colors, in a five blue one green configuration you get a base score of 4.3 (5 squared is 25, plus 1 squared {1}, equals 26. Divide by six to get 4.3)

In the above examples if you had managed to make a twist in the loop loop the y value would be reduced by one, meaning that instead of dividing by 6 you would instead divide by 5. This would then give you a base score of 7.2 and 5.2, respectively.

In short, that line adds a bonus for making complicated loops.
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Orsino, Viridian ocean
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Whitewyvern wrote: 
The only high end goals are those you set for yourself. What happens to anyone else is irrelevant.

[Jun 8, 2007 1:38:05 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    Avatar by Stimmhorn [Link]  Go to top 
tcarr

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I'm not a contestant, but here's my feedback after playing level one several times.

1. Level one is easy for beginners to make loops on, at the beginning anyway. It took me a while to figure out whether I got a better score from one-color circles than from two-color circles.

2. The only time I made a loop with a twist was by pure accident. I imagine once there's a wiki tutorial or some videos I'll learn the patterns that can form small twisted loops. The side effect of this is that even after I started trying on purpose to make circles near the right and left sides instead of in the middle, eventually I would end up with two moveable columns on each side and a gap in the middle, and have to click End Game because I couldn't figure out what else I could do.

3. Sometimes I would get a "Penalty!" It happens when I'm trying something tricky, so I assume I used too many clicks without making a loop - is that the only time a player gets a penalty?

4. On my screen (800x600 resolution) the quickstart image that pops up when I click "Play now" is fuzzy and much of the text is illegible.

5. I just played the best game i ever did, score 147.7. It took me 8 minutes and I only got "Penalty" once. The first few games, my attention was wandering well before 8 minutes would be up, likely around the 5 minute mark. After I started developing a few strategies (try to get the special pieces before they reach the top, and try to put more than one in a loop at the same time if I can) it kept my attention a bit longer.

6. I've only reversed direction a few times. I imagine if I could right click to reverse I'd use it more often, but for now unless my counter is getting low I don't even think about that option; I just click until the thing goes around to where I want it.

7. Would it make more sense to have the game end when you ran out of moves, instead of taking away points and giving you 50 more moves?
----------------------------------------
LordKalvan of Otherwhen, all oceans but mostly Midnight
[Jun 9, 2007 5:59:16 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Uikur

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In order:

Easy questions:

1. Yes. It helps explain how the game works, what happens when you make loops, etc.
2. It's somewhere on the medium-high range. The game is addicting, but it could use... more. Maybe just add something to prolong the game?
3. Yes, but it seems too short in some ways.
4. It doesn't work too well for weaving to me, more tailoring. To change it for furnishing, it wouldn't make much sense.
5. Definitely. I could understand why a lot better than some other games I've played.
6. Really tough, though I've learned the basic patterns now.
7. Yes. I could play and get loops somewhat easily.
8. On level 1, I'm gonna guess about 5 minutes. It seems a bit short though. There's not enough time to get a good score to me.
9. Probably when I made a triple. It was my first time I had.

Harder questions:

1. I think a mix of the two would be best. Colors have something to do with it, but length, well, people pay more in bulk, right?
2. Well, I think, if it would be done, it would need to make the colors different shades of tan (white, light tan, tan, light brown, brown, almost-black-brown). Also, the loops would need to be filled in, like it's a piece of a table.
3. Maybe just a better quickstart. The only problem I had was wondering why the heck I wasn't getting more moves when I had a column out of refills and I was making loops.
4. Probably just having more of the sharp-corner turns in there. It's tricky incorporating them in, so as long as you don't have more than 3 together, it should make it a LOT harder.
5. I didn't play around with it, though when I just tried I thought it'd be fun to reduce my move counter, for more challenge. It wouldn't let me *sob*.
6. Beginner: 2 colors, level 1, 25 in a column, 100 moves. Experts: 5 colors, level 5, 10 in a column, 25 moves.
7. Definitely add. It would cause ultimates to work for them while giving a novice a choice. In a length based game, it would probably be good to have a loop multiplier.
8. I'm not sure if this is a bug, but when one of the columns runs dry and out of pieces, the move counter won't replenish.
9. Help? More pieces in a column.
----------------------------------------
Just my thoughts.

Check out my proposal (Project Compere) here. Feedback and/or a coder is requested!

Irinam of Viridian.
[Jun 9, 2007 10:22:18 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Jes_Roo

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1. Vaguely. I thought for a while that I HAD to only make loops out of the same color.

2. It became more addictive once I learned some patterns for making big loops. It was frustrating until then.

3. It's a little fun. It gets boring pretty quickly, and frustrating when you run out of moves trying to make a gigantic loop.

4. It think it works best as a weaving puzzle. The analogy is good.

5. Yes. I like the idea of a finite number of tiles.

6. Very difficult to spot loops bigger than 8 tiles for my first few games, but it got easier.

7. Yes, although I don't really understand the question.

8. 5 minutes. That's a good length. Any longer and I would quit.

9. I have to be honest--I don't really like this game. That doesn't mean it's not a good game for YPP -- I actually think it's a great game for YPP. It's an easy game to learn and play, and a has a natural ramp to skill. (I don't like Distilling, either...) I guess what I like best about it is making really complicated, long loops.

1. I don't the the scoring should center on loop color. I think that it should be a large bonus if the loop is all one color, but otherwise should not be counted. The reason is that it's a lot more fun to make gigantic loops than to make small loops of all one color. Players should be encouraged to make gigantic loops. In that spirit, I really like the designer's idea of having twists count extra.

2. I don't think this is a good option for furnishing.

3. Perhaps some screenshots of larger loops, to make it just a little easier to start seeing the patterns.

4. Non-turnable pieces in the center, which then could be removed by putting them in the center of loops (for a small bonus).

5. More move counts was more fun. I would prefer if there were infinite moves but a negative score counter for each move taken.

6. The fancier tiles actually made it a lot easier to make big loops. I think you should have all of the tiles on every level, except perhaps the first star level (just to make the board easier to understand). I've already mentioned that the addition of colors don't really add much to the game. One way to make the game more difficult as levels progress is to add unmoveable pieces. Another would be to increase the negative points associated with moves.

7. Wildcard pieces would be a fun addition. However, in a length-based system, they would make it pretty easy to make a giant loop. They would have to be very occasional.

8. No bugs so far!

9. So, my suggestions were: change to a length-based scoring system, change to infinite number of moves with a negative point score for each move used, add a large bonus for using all one color in loops. :)
----------------------------------------
JesRoo
First Mate of Eloquent & Princess of Cold Steel on Midnight
Owner of Jesroo's Ironworking and Apothecary Stalls on Gaea
 
You're in the pay of the Weaving Syndicate, you are! Hempmonger! - The Dread Pirate Chris

[Jun 9, 2007 8:04:56 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
kierra214

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Something I noticed as I was playing. When you create two loops simultaneously, the game only scores the smaller loop.



Is this the intended behavior? I'd argue that the larger of the two should be scored, if not both. Picking the smaller loop just makes it needlessly frustrating.
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Magrat
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[Jun 10, 2007 9:33:46 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Fiddler

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Something I noticed as I was playing. When you create two loops simultaneously, the game only scores the smaller loop.

Is this the intended behavior? I'd argue that the larger of the two should be scored, if not both. Picking the smaller loop just makes it needlessly frustrating.


Hmm. I'll have a talk with JD about this as soon as I can. At the very least it should have scored the bigger of the loops.
----------------------------------------
Orsino, Viridian ocean
Forum-mute: your best friend
Whitewyvern wrote: 
The only high end goals are those you set for yourself. What happens to anyone else is irrelevant.

[Jun 10, 2007 10:51:00 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    Avatar by Stimmhorn [Link]  Go to top 
kierra214

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• Was the quickstart helpful in learning how to play? What could be done to make the game easier to learn?
~ Yes. Though given the confusion about the role of the colors, it might be better to make a few changes. If you shift the #3 box to the right, you can make room for a finished loop using multiple colors at the #1 box. This would make it clearer that making single color loops is optional.

• What is the addiction factor? Do you have to force yourself to play it a few more times in order to give decent feedback, or does it tempt you to keep playing when you have other things to do? (or somewhere in the middle)
~ It took a little bit of time to get used to seeing whether the ends of a loop could be matched together (and it was very frustrating when they didn’t). I don't really have to force myself to play it, but I wouldn't classify it as addicting either.

• Separate from the addiction, is playing the game fun?
~ It’s ok now that I’ve got the hand of it. I'd play this puzzle if it was in the game, but I don't think it would be one of my favorite crafting puzzles.

• Does the analogy work for weaving? With a change in graphics, would this work better as a furnishing puzzle?
~ The game makes sense for a weaving puzzle. I'm not sure how this would work as a furnishing puzzle, but that could just be a lack of creativity on my part. It might be easier to answer this question if we could see some sample graphics for this puzzle as a furnishing one.

• Did it make sense why the game ended when it did?
~ The ending seems somehow off and unsatisfying, but I'm not sure what would be the best fix yet. Maybe a certain number of loops needed to finish instead of the tile limits. As it is, larger loops make the game go faster, so it's unclear whether this ends up being the best strategy with the current scoring system. If you keep the tile limits, I think it may be better if the game just ends when the board can't be refilled from one of the columns.

• How hard was it for you to spot loops when you first started playing?
~ Pretty tricky. I still do not so much "spot loops" as start to create loops and then spot how to finish them.

• Was it easy enough to pick up on the first level?
~ Strangely the first level seemed harder than the other levels at first because of the lack of piece variety and the effect of the tight turns being only on the board edges. But after playing the game a while and picking up on the loop patterns, the first level seems much easier. It's a weird dynamic when the early level only seems easiest after playing the later levels for a while.

• Approximately how long does it take you to play a typical game on a given level? Does this time feel too long, too short, or about right?
~ 5-10 minutes depending on loop size used. It feels a little quick when you’re making primarily large loops.

• What is your favorite part of the game?
~ Making long or complicated loops is very satisfying. It would be better if the scoring and congratulatory messages reflected this better.

• The current scoring focuses mostly on the number of colors used in each loop. Would a scoring formula based on the length of each loop make more sense?
~ Yes, I think scoring should focus primary on the loop length and number of goal pieces incorporated. I think colors should be scored in a secondary manner (similar to the "Nice Set" or "Grain Bonus" in carp). I also think it would be better to count the longest continuous stretch of one color and add a score bonus based on that. This would give some partial credit for having part of a long loop the same color. You could then multiply that bonus by 2 if the whole loop is one color.
----------------------------------------
Magrat
SO of Polish War Fog
Viridian
[Jun 10, 2007 11:26:33 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
kierra214

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The current scoring focuses mostly on the number of colors used in each loop. Would a scoring formula based on the length of each loop make more sense?
~ Yes, I think scoring should focus primary on the loop length and number of goal pieces incorporated. I think colors should be scored in a secondary manner (similar to the "Nice Set" or "Grain Bonus" in carp). I also think it would be better to count the longest continuous stretch of one color and add a score bonus based on that. This would give some partial credit for having part of a long loop the same color. You could then multiply that bonus by 2 if the whole loop is one color.

Forgot to add, I also agree with the previous posters that the number of twists in the loop should be scored somehow as well.

Another random idea: Have bonus tiles change positions randomly after each clear. This way unused bonus tiles won’t start congregating at the top of the board.
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Magrat
SO of Polish War Fog
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[Jun 10, 2007 11:40:31 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Silverfur

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*Was the quickstart helpful in learning how to play?

Pretty helpful, at least as helpful as the ones in the YPP now.

*What is the addiction factor? Do you have to force yourself to play it a few more times in order to give decent feedback, or does it tempt you to keep playing when you have other things to do? (or somewhere in the middle)

Not really addicting. It isn't a game that I would avoid playing but it isn't one I could stand more than a few rounds of at a time. Reminds me a lot of the Alchemistry puzzle.

*Separate from the addiction, is playing the game fun?

Reasonably fun. It would never be my favorite puzzle but it isn't bad.

*Does the analogy work for weaving? With a change in graphics, would this work better as a furnishing puzzle?

Yes, it works well for weaving. It might work well for tailoring but I think furnishing would require a slightly changed goal. If ye had to make certain shaped loops, like you have certain patterns to make in shipbuilding, it might be better for furnishing.

*Did it make sense why the game ended when it did?

Uh, the game ends on its own? I just got to a point that I couldn't see any more loops and ended the game myself. After two penalties in a row, I would give up on making loops and quit.

*How hard was it for you to spot loops when you first started playing?

Easy with a fresh board but it got harder when pieces weren't replaced in a column.

*Was it easy enough to pick up on the first level?

Yeah, pretty much.

*Approximately how long does it take you to play a typical game on a given level? Does this time feel too long, too short, or about right?

About 5-8 minutes. If a puzzle takes me much longer, unless it is a duty puzzle, I tend to get bored of it. This maybe that the duty puzzles get tougher without you having to 'end' the game. Bilge for example lets you play the whole level then gives you a new twist without having to leave the puzzle. Colors and special pieces get added as you advance without you running out of moves.

*What is your favorite part of the game?

Seeing how fancy of loops I could make.


*The current scoring focuses mostly on the number of colors used in each loop. Would a scoring formula based on the length of each loop make more sense?

I think getting all one color should be like getting a grain bonus in carpentry, you get a bonus but not that big a deal. A larger more complex loop, especially if it passes through more goal pieces, should be what scores the points.

*If you do think this would work for furnishing, what colors and patterns would you suggest for the pieces. There are up to five basic colors, plus two special colors.

Brown for wood, white, or most any color, for cloth, gray for iron, tan for hemp, and black, or some dark color, for varnish or paint. It would also help to have to make the loops a certain shape and size.

*What could be done to make the game easier to learn?

Game play tips but those would require that the game remember how much you have played and which tips you have gotten.

*What could make it more challenging on the harder levels?

I never really played the harder levels. I didn't see how to change the level until reading this thread.

*If you played around with the move and column counts, what levels made for a more satisfying game? Did those numbers change if you played at different levels?

I didn't play around with those, see previous answer.

*What combination of level/colors/moves & column count makes for the best beginner game? The most challenging high-level game?

More moves at lower levels. With the current scoring having fewer colors for lower levels too. If the scoring were changed the colors wouldn't make much difference but the make it seem more complex or make incredibles harder.

*Would an occasional "wildcard" piece add or detract from the overall game? In the current color-based scoring it would significantly increase your color score - what could a similar piece do for a length-based scoring system?

Well, I know that there are a couple types of wildcard pieces in the different puzzles. Maybe have different types of wildcard pieces, one for color and a different one for direction. You would also want them rare so players can't take advantage of how easy the pieces can make the puzzle.

*If you spot bugs, please report them. If you can tell how to reproduce the bug, it is worth more points.

I didn't see any bugs while I was playing.

*If there is something that you think would significantly help the game, please post about it as well.

I don't know about higher levels but it might be nice to have short, 60 degree pieces and longer, 180 degree pieces that you can turn. I didn't see any of those while I was playing, at least none that you could move.
I also noticed that the best I could make was a bingo, though that may just be that I only played on the default level and settings.
I might like the game better if there was no column count and the game ended when you reached a certain score or number of loops, most likely the number of loops. That would work whether the scoring were based on loop length or the number of color. But then, I love bilge and shipbuilding and distilling are fun too.
[Jun 10, 2007 4:20:42 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
kierra214

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Something I noticed as I was playing. When you create two loops simultaneously, the game only scores the smaller loop.

Is this the intended behavior? I'd argue that the larger of the two should be scored, if not both. Picking the smaller loop just makes it needlessly frustrating.



Hmm. I'll have a talk with JD about this as soon as I can. At the very least it should have scored the bigger of the loops.

After playing around with it a little more, it seems that the game always scores the upper or right-most loop without regards to number of colors used or loop size.
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Magrat
SO of Polish War Fog
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[Jun 10, 2007 4:42:06 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Fiddler

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kierra214 wrote: 
Forgot to add, I also agree with the previous posters that the number of twists in the loop should be scored somehow as well.

That's in the plan but not currently implemented. Another thing that may not be obvious right now is that looping through a bonus piece twice (either a twist, or through two unconnected threads on the same tile) will count that bonus tile twice. I've managed to make a few loops that score as if I had used six or seven bonus tiles.


 
Another random idea: Have bonus tiles change positions randomly after each clear. This way unused bonus tiles won?t start congregating at the top of the board.

I actually like the ability to manipulate the position of the bonus tile. Removing the non-bonus pieces in between two bonus tiles, so that the next loop uses both of them at once, is a strategic decision I'd like to keep.
----------------------------------------
Orsino, Viridian ocean
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Whitewyvern wrote: 
The only high end goals are those you set for yourself. What happens to anyone else is irrelevant.

[Jun 11, 2007 1:01:43 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    Avatar by Stimmhorn [Link]  Go to top 
Fiddler

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Somebody asked about seeing some sample patterns that can be formed (I thought, I can't seem to find it right now.) Anyways, here are a few simple ones that you can find on level 1.

The simple loop wrote: 


Up top wrote: 


Off the side wrote: 

----------------------------------------
Orsino, Viridian ocean
Forum-mute: your best friend
Whitewyvern wrote: 
The only high end goals are those you set for yourself. What happens to anyone else is irrelevant.

[Jun 11, 2007 8:42:17 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    Avatar by Stimmhorn [Link]  Go to top 
marie61

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Was the quickstart helpful in learning how to play? yes. it is also very easy to understand since all you need to know to get started is "The movable pieces can be clicked to rotate them clockwise or counter-clockwise" and "The basic goal of the game is to complete loops of thread."

* What is the addiction factor? Do you have to force yourself to play it a few more times in order to give decent feedback, or does it tempt you to keep playing when you have other things to do? (or somewhere in the middle) in the original forum thread, the similarity to the alchemistry puzzle was mentioned. in spite of the fact that i am solid/distinguished at alchemistry and was a little biased against platy from the beginning because of that, i have become interested in getting better at the game. although not totally riveted. one problem i have is after a couple of games, i 1)start getting confused and start rotating pieces the wrong direction and 2)have difficulty keeping track of where my loop is (especially where 2 threads of the same color cross each other). could the loop get darker or outlined after several pieces (6 or 7 maybe) connect?

* Separate from the addiction, is playing the game fun?yes and i like it much better with the highlighted pieces

* Does the analogy work for weaving? i still think the pickerel puzzle just looks more weaving-ish but this is good, With a change in graphics, would this work better as a furnishing puzzle? possibly, i have trouble envisioning what kind of pieces might work.

* Did it make sense why the game ended when it did? i thought it did until i met this game. either my brain gave up after 30 minutes of playing or there isn't a possible move and the game just got tired of thinking .



* How hard was it for you to spot loops when you first started playing? i saw some but got a lot by accident

* Was it easy enough to pick up on the first level?very
----------------------------------------
Armillaria on all oceans
SO Moose of Doom, Cerulean


Yes, I am an agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial.
[Jun 12, 2007 12:58:13 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
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Lordkalvan wrote: 
3. Sometimes I would get a "Penalty!" It happens when I'm trying something tricky, so I assume I used too many clicks without making a loop - is that the only time a player gets a penalty?

Yes. Also, it's not clicks that are counted, it's individual pieces moved. So if you click a hundred times on the same piece you should only get one move deducted.


Uikur wrote: 
Does the analogy work for weaving?
It doesn't work too well for weaving to me, more tailoring.

Why does this remind you of tailoring?

 
I'm not sure if this is a bug, but when one of the columns runs dry and out of pieces, the move counter won't replenish.

Are you sure? I just checked now by deliberately setting a low column count and each loop I completed did add back to the move counter.

However, what you described is the intended behavior. When you run out of fresh pieces in any column, the move counter is supposed to stop replenishing. When you then run out of moves, the game is over.


Jes_Roo wrote: 
What could make it more challenging on the harder levels?
4. Non-turnable pieces in the center, which then could be removed by putting them in the center of loops (for a small bonus).

I'd had thoughts long those lines early in the development. If we're going to move away from color based scoring and into length based scores, it may be a good idea to revisit this.

 
If you played around with the move and column counts, what levels made for a more satisfying game? Did those numbers change if you played at different levels?
5. More move counts was more fun. I would prefer if there were infinite moves but a negative score counter for each move taken.

Adding in a finite set of moves was an attempt to balance the risk v. reward of the puzzle. I think the real challenge here will be to find the right balance.
However, if I had to lose either the move or the column count, I think losing the move counter would make for a better game.


kierra214 wrote: 
Did it make sense why the game ended when it did?
~ The ending seems somehow off and unsatisfying, but I'm not sure what would be the best fix yet. Maybe a certain number of loops needed to finish instead of the tile limits. As it is, larger loops make the game go faster, so it's unclear whether this ends up being the best strategy with the current scoring system. If you keep the tile limits, I think it may be better if the game just ends when the board can't be refilled from one of the columns.

I don't know that having a "loop quota" works any better. One of the things I like about the current direction the puzzle is taking is the open-ended nature of the goals. Like sailing, you don't necessarily have to complete the platforms (bonus pieces) in order to play, but you will score better.

 
The current scoring focuses mostly on the number of colors used in each loop. Would a scoring formula based on the length of each loop make more sense?
Yes... I also think it would be better to count the longest continuous stretch of one color and add a score bonus based on that.

I'll have a talk with JD and see how possible this is.


Silverfur wrote: 
*What is your favorite part of the game?
Seeing how fancy of loops I could make.

It's starting to sound like this is the real appeal to people, as a challenge in pathfinding.


marie61 wrote: 
could the loop get darker or outlined after several pieces (6 or 7 maybe) connect?

Ehhh. I can see this as more problematic than helpful. if you get two or three of these darkened partial loops on a screen, especially if they overlap, then you're right back at the same problem.

 
* Did it make sense why the game ended when it did?
i thought it did until i met this game. either my brain gave up after 30 minutes of playing or there isn't a possible move and the game just got tired of thinking .

Right now, the game is supposed to end when you reach zero moves after reaching zero in any column. Unfortunately, because the move counter is still replenishing people are getting to the state of no possible moves far too often than I think they should be. I think we'll need to address this bug before we can properly examine the idea of getting rid of the move counter entirely.


Thanks for all the input so far. I'm already brainstorming on ways to improve the puzzle in the near future.
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[Jun 12, 2007 12:20:50 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    Avatar by Stimmhorn [Link]  Go to top 
kierra214

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Long and boring day at work, so I was kicking around some ideas for bonus pieces.

And to give credit where due, these were inspired by Jes_Roo's post:
 
What could make it more challenging on the harder levels?
4. Non-turnable pieces in the center, which then could be removed by putting them in the center of loops (for a small bonus).


Snags (or knots): These would be variants of pieces 4, 8, 9, 12, or 14 (from the wiki proposal) but with the strings knotted in the middle. The piece would be immobile, and could be successfully removed by looping around the piece (gaining bonus points). If a loop goes into the snag it can continue out of the piece from any of the threads (since they are all attached to each other), but using the snag in a loop gives some kind of penalty (either loss of points or loss of moves).

Gold thread: Opposite of the knot piece and also immobile. Gold threads must be used in a loop to get the bonus points and count as any color. If they are removed from the board in any other way (either by being looped around or by having one of the other threads on the same piece used in the loop instead) then points are deducted for being "wasteful."

These would probably show up infrequently to keep the board from getting crowded. Maybe a max of two special pieces on a board at one time, though this would have to be tested.
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Snags (or knots): These would be variants of pieces 4, 8, 9, 12, or 14 (from the wiki proposal) but with the strings knotted in the middle. The piece would be immobile, and could be successfully removed by looping around the piece (gaining bonus points). If a loop goes into the snag it can continue out of the piece from any of the threads (since they are all attached to each other), but using the snag in a loop gives some kind of penalty (either loss of points or loss of moves).

Gold thread: Opposite of the knot piece and also immobile. Gold threads must be used in a loop to get the bonus points and count as any color. If they are removed from the board in any other way (either by being looped around or by having one of the other threads on the same piece used in the loop instead) then points are deducted for being "wasteful."


Ooh, I like these ideas. You could also have "rainbow" pieces that could count as any color.

Also, Orsino, I like the example loops you posted. They would be helpful in the tutorial, maybe just lined up on the side?
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marie61 wrote: 
could the loop get darker or outlined after several pieces (6 or 7 maybe) connect?

Ehhh. I can see this as more problematic than helpful. if you get two or three of these darkened partial loops on a screen, especially if they overlap, then you're right back at the same problem.

that is why i specified a relatively long section.

also, about my earlier question - why is it considered better (pointwise) to make a loop with a twist than one the same length untwisted?
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* Approximately how long does it take you to play a typical game on a given level? Does this time feel too long, too short, or about right? 20-30 minutes on level 3, 4 colors. maybe a little too long
* The current scoring focuses mostly on the number of colors used in each loop. Would a scoring formula based on the length of each loop make more sense? i completely ignore the colors because it is (as far as i can see) it is impossible to make a long loop with just 1 or 2 colors
What is your favorite part of the game? i like it much better with the highlighted pieces & try to use as many as possible each turn. however, when they are at the top of a column, they are sometimes useless from the beginning if they can't connect to any adjacent unmoveable piece - such as the one with the 3 straight pieces shown here

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Armillaria on all oceans
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tcarr

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Platy logic puzzle is now available. See this post for the link.

If you have questions, either email me or send me a PM. Don't post anything that might give a hint to other players!
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LordKalvan of Otherwhen, all oceans but mostly Midnight
[Jun 15, 2007 8:03:24 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
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level 3 loop in upper right but no score

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tcarr

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level 3 loop in upper right but no score

Great bug catch!
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also, about my earlier question - why is it considered better (pointwise) to make a loop with a twist than one the same length untwisted?


Well, it's not, at the moment. Orsino is considering adding this feature. The reason is that making loops with twists is more complicated, and because that's what most people seem to think is the most fun part of the game (making complicated loops), it makes sense to encourage that by giving a bonus for such.
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Uikur

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Can more than one screen be on the same level?
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Just my thoughts.

Check out my proposal (Project Compere) here. Feedback and/or a coder is requested!

Irinam of Viridian.
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Uikur

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Also, I think there is a bug on this image:

http://www.watersleeps.org/guppy/event/platyImages/e.PNG

4 bonuses, but only 2 colors. Not possible by the difficulty scaling given.

'nother question: Is yellow one of the 5 counted colors?
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Just my thoughts.

Check out my proposal (Project Compere) here. Feedback and/or a coder is requested!

Irinam of Viridian.
[Jun 15, 2007 8:59:06 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Uikur

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So many posts; a triple! I believe F is bugged in the same way E is.
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Just my thoughts.

Check out my proposal (Project Compere) here. Feedback and/or a coder is requested!

Irinam of Viridian.
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tcarr

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There are 6 screen shots mate. There are fewer than 6 difficulty levels. Of course there's more than one.

Each of the screen shots was taken while playing the game, then I made the move to verify that rotating one tile really did finish a loop. that tile might need to be rotated more than just one click, but it's just a single tile that needs to be moved.

If you click Options, you get to choose both the level and the number of colors.
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[Jun 16, 2007 3:21:28 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Uikur

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ok thanks (crap, now I have to think them over again!)
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Just my thoughts.

Check out my proposal (Project Compere) here. Feedback and/or a coder is requested!

Irinam of Viridian.
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Uikur

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sorry for all the questions, but, is there a difficulty scaling for the contest game?
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Just my thoughts.

Check out my proposal (Project Compere) here. Feedback and/or a coder is requested!

Irinam of Viridian.
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