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Karein



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Puzzle Codename: Isinglass Reply to this Post
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http://yppedia.puzzlepirates.com/GCPP:Proposal-Isinglass

Tell me what you think.
[Apr 17, 2007 1:58:34 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
tcarr

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Interesting game. I look forward to seeing images and a storyboard.
 
Ensuring that the boards are solvable in the number of turns allowed. While there exist an infinite number of puzzles, it is very easy to create an unsolvable puzzle, and careful programming would be required to make sure the boards are possible.


If there is always a solution to a given board, then the game is machine solvable, which is bad for YPP. If there isn't always a solution, then players can get frustrated. Perhaps a player could invoke a "randomize the rest of the board" tool for a loss of points, when the situation is hopeless? We would definitely need to make sure that the board tiles were connected; i.e. that the holes do not isolate a set of tiles that could never be reached. That's not too hard to code.
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LordKalvan of Otherwhen, all oceans but mostly Midnight
[Apr 17, 2007 2:22:11 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
jdnx429

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After playing Mad Virus, one thing I would be worried about is that the game seems much too simple. The only choice is clicking on the right color.

What other variations, besides bonus pieces, could be made to make it more like a puzzle?
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Josephdaniel on Midnight.
[Apr 17, 2007 2:47:19 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Karein



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Perhaps a player could invoke a "randomize the rest of the board" tool for a loss of points, when the situation is hopeless?


This would work, and it would force the player to plan ahead to see if the puzzle is solvable. I would say that if we used this, randomizing the board would cost a turn, and points.
[Apr 17, 2007 2:52:48 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Karein



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I agree that Mad Virus is too simple, but I think that one could still make the game more complex. The choice becomes less of just expanding as much as possible, but the player has to change straegy to try and expand towards spaces with bonuses while having to avoid spreading into spaces that will harm him, all while trying to finish the board. Also, as more colors are added, it becomes harder to strategize and determine which starting spot will give the player the most points. Unlike Mad Virus, this also contains elements that generate randomly, forcing the player to change strategy on the fly. I don't think this has to be simple.
[Apr 17, 2007 3:00:29 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
DreadedChris



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The gameplay itself I'm not sure about either way, but on the 'meta game play' as it were, I have it that you must complete some number of boards (3? 5?) to finish a session. Boards that you fail to solve can be dismissed, but your score is harmed, such that, if you need 5 boards to complete a session and you booch one your score is 5/6ths what it would have been, booch 2, 5/7ths ...

Something about the 'play until you fail' that doesn't feel crafty to me. Crafts are 'play until you finish.'
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~< The Dread Pirate Chris >~
[Apr 17, 2007 3:28:54 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Karein



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Ok, I added an image and made a few modifications. I changed the end condition so that the session ends when you complete a certain number of boards.
[Apr 17, 2007 4:39:45 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Karein



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I added a storyboard underneath gameplay. Tell me what you think.
[Apr 17, 2007 8:26:44 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Uikur

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Great game! I like the idea and the images make it easier to understand.
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Just my thoughts.

Check out my proposal (Project Compere) here. Feedback and/or a coder is requested!

Irinam of Viridian.
[Apr 18, 2007 5:54:18 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Karein



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I have added a scoring equation, and made a few other minor edits:

*changed the end criterion and adapted the gameplay so that the session ends after a player finishes five boards.
*added another bonus piece which gives the player an extra turn.
[Apr 19, 2007 2:51:16 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Patetch

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Another interesting proposal - I look forward to seeing this one developed.
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Pletoo of Sage
[Apr 19, 2007 3:31:20 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Karein



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I added images to the wiki showing two sets of board layouts. One of then is based on hexagons, the other on rectangles. I'm not sure which is better, they both have advantages. There's also the possibility that both could be used.
[Apr 19, 2007 9:43:03 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
tcarr

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I'm not seeing anything but the hexagonal layout images.
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LordKalvan of Otherwhen, all oceans but mostly Midnight
[Apr 20, 2007 1:53:30 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Karein



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Sorry. Try it now.
[Apr 20, 2007 8:29:04 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
tcarr

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Doh! I thought you meant it was possible to use square tiles instead of hexagonal ones, when you mentioned rectangular boards. Aye, I would think that mixing the various boards on the higher difficulty levels would be a good thing.

(the game could be played using square tiles, but hexagons make more sense IMO, and it would be a headache to try to implement "sometimes hexagons, sometimes squares". ooooo triangular tiles would be interesting as a change of pace......
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LordKalvan of Otherwhen, all oceans but mostly Midnight
[Apr 20, 2007 8:41:20 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Adamp456

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This is an excellent proposal, and an excellent game idea. I agree with Tcarr that random board styles should be used more in as you get more experienced. This would be a good puzzle for weaving since the pieces could be amounts of dye.
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Adamp on Hunter
[Apr 20, 2007 9:44:16 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Karein



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(the game could be played using square tiles, but hexagons make more sense IMO, and it would be a headache to try to implement "sometimes hexagons, sometimes squares". ooooo triangular tiles would be interesting as a change of pace......)


We could do trianglular and square pieces too, the only thing is I'm not sure how changing the piece would change the difficulty. I'd need a prototype before I could figure out the average number of turns to complete each board. Until then, I'll see what I can do about some more board designs.
[Apr 20, 2007 10:31:52 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Benzene265

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With this kind of gameplay, you don't even need a one-shape grid. It's not like the pieces need to move or shift, just change color. You could do any tesselation you wanted, as long as the pieces alll fit together, such as octagons and squares. You could even use that dodecahedron one Cedric posted earlier.
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A Ghyslaine and a Rhodin for every Ocean, but mostly on Viridian.
Make the natural choice for our oceans: Google Rhodin Blonde!
[Apr 20, 2007 11:06:30 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    Have you considered becoming a well-tanned blonde? [Link]  Go to top 
tcarr

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With this kind of gameplay, you don't even need a one-shape grid. It's not like the pieces need to move or shift, just change color. You could do any tesselation you wanted, as long as the pieces alll fit together, such as octagons and squares. You could even use that dodecahedron one Cedric posted earlier.


/e gets a sudden image of Escher type tiles, and shudders at the coding......


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LordKalvan of Otherwhen, all oceans but mostly Midnight
[Apr 20, 2007 11:40:53 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Karein



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With this kind of gameplay, you don't even need a one-shape grid. It's not like the pieces need to move or shift, just change color. You could do any tesselation you wanted, as long as the pieces alll fit together, such as octagons and squares. You could even use that dodecahedron one Cedric posted earlier.


/e gets a sudden image of Escher type tiles, and shudders at the coding......


I wouldn't worry too much about tesselations, I think the game should stick with regular polygons for now. There are two more images up showing triangle boards and rectangle boards. So far, there are 17 boards I believe, because the rectangular boards can be repeated for every type of piece. The only one that overlaps is the easy rectangle piece boards.
[Apr 20, 2007 1:59:36 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Karein



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Now that I think about boards, would it be possible to randomize shape as well as color? I'm not a real expert on coding, so I don't know. But if we had a regular base shape (a largetriangle with 16 units, or a square of 9 square units) That then get randomized, so that the boards look somewhat random, but without a bunch of weird arms shooting off anywhere. Would this even be possible? Well, it would probably be possible, but would it be feasible is a better question.
[Apr 23, 2007 10:33:06 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Benzene265

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That's the secret to Escher tiles, they are regular tesselations. The pieces themselves can be ordinary squares/hexagons/whatever, but they can have anything drawn on them. What's drawn on them will be what makes them look like the tiled horses. The hard part comes in when each edge of the piece has to be a different color. >.>
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A Ghyslaine and a Rhodin for every Ocean, but mostly on Viridian.
Make the natural choice for our oceans: Google Rhodin Blonde!
[Apr 23, 2007 10:44:31 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    Have you considered becoming a well-tanned blonde? [Link]  Go to top 
Karein



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That's the secret to Escher tiles, they are regular tesselations. The pieces themselves can be ordinary squares/hexagons/whatever, but they can have anything drawn on them. What's drawn on them will be what makes them look like the tiled horses. The hard part comes in when each edge of the piece has to be a different color. >.>


I wouldn't object to harder combinations and tesselations of pieces, so long as they're regular, and they don't curve. Each side needs a one to one ratio for this puzzle to work. What this means, is that the puzzle's difficulty is dependant only on the number of sides each piece has. A trapezoid and a square would create different looking boards, but because they're both four sided, the puzzle difficulty would be exactly the same. So, to avoid making things more complex than nesseciary, I'd rather stick with regular polygons.


As you mentioned before, two piece tesselations (octogons and squares for example) would work too, and I'm still playing with that idea.
[Apr 23, 2007 2:12:07 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
tcarr

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This proposal seems interesting, IMO. I would like to encourage you to either pin down details, or settle on one set of them (one shape of board, etc) for a prototype. Then we just have to find a coder who isn't too busy with other stuff and takes an interest in it.
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LordKalvan of Otherwhen, all oceans but mostly Midnight
[Apr 26, 2007 6:18:46 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Karein



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I think for now I'll stick with the 17 boards. To me that seems like enough variance, but if it isn't we can figure out a way to randomize shapes better in the future. I'll go ahead and get images of all the boards on the wiki. How would I go about finding a coder for my puzzles?
[Apr 26, 2007 11:10:40 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
tcarr

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most of the time coders just stepped forward and volunteered, but if you look at the old round 1 threads you will spot some proposals that were ripe that just never got a coder.

some designers were able to sweet talk coders into helping.
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LordKalvan of Otherwhen, all oceans but mostly Midnight
[Apr 26, 2007 11:21:41 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
jdnx429

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I might be able to give this one a shot if no other coders step up in a couple of weeks.
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Josephdaniel on Midnight.
[Apr 26, 2007 11:41:17 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
tcarr

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It's far too easy for a coder to commit him/herself to too many projects. It's possible that I would have time for another project, but that's going to depend on how fast I get the ones I've already committed to in decent shape, and also how fast I settle contract details with my new employer (after I start that job, I'll have less coding time for GCPP).
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LordKalvan of Otherwhen, all oceans but mostly Midnight
[Apr 26, 2007 11:45:57 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Karein



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All of the board images are up. So that should clear up that issue.
[Apr 26, 2007 12:07:37 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Karein



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One of my programmer friends offered to try his hand t a prototype, so hpefully I'll have something to tinker with by the end of the week.
[Apr 29, 2007 2:34:03 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
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