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Bran



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Cannon damage during PvP battle Reply to this Post
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Ok, I've searched and come up with nothing, so I'm gonna risk a booch to ask this...

Normally I avoid PvP battles, but last night the temptation of hitting a ship off the coast of Xi (with that market buying jet gems at the time) was just too tempting. I did so and during the ensuing battle nav, managed to land four cannon shots. When we boarded, there were three humans and a swabbie on board. The swabbie was the only one who registered any damage in his box. None of the humans seemed to have had any damage at all.

Is this normal, or should I have /bug -ed it?
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Blackbran
Captain of No Quarter
[Nov 19, 2003 12:47:01 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.dead-reckoning.org [Link]  Go to top 
ultima7



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Re: Cannon damage during PvP battle Reply to this Post
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Sounds like a bug to me. You can't assign swabbies to load guns, so I don't think you should be able to order them to "Catch cannon balls".

p.s. If you post a situation like you did in this post you can't leave the rest of us forum addicts hanging. Give us the details of the fight. Did you win the battle? Did you pillage gems? Or were you skewered and hung from the yardarm as an example of why to never attack that crew.
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Argyle
[Nov 19, 2003 12:51:57 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Dorel

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Re: Cannon damage during PvP battle Reply to this Post
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ultima7 wrote: 
Sounds like a bug to me. You can't assign swabbies to load guns, so I don't think you should be able to order them to "Catch cannon balls".


*suddenly imagines a brig with swabbies tied up to the outside of the hull. Or, when a shot is fired, a swabbie jumps up and goes "Mine!"*

As for the original post, did ye try to contact the people ye attacked to see if they actually had any damage?
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Hermes wrote: 
Gather round, folks, for the Ballad of Dorel the Invulnerable!
silverkitty wrote: 
The ocean is dangerous, bring a lifejacket.

[Nov 19, 2003 12:57:01 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    CeeJayDorel [Link]  Go to top 
jewles



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Re: Cannon damage during PvP battle Reply to this Post
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As you may know there is some lag in the mini windows. This is why when you say 3 on 1 in battle you sometimes get 4 or 5 on one at first. When you play against NPP's the window is simulated (they don't actually play the game the way humans do) and the information about the mini is sitting on the server so the damage shows up immediately (or very soon). The minis from the human players must be sent from that players client to the server then back to youwhich takes twice as long. I have no proof that this is what happened but this appears to be whats going on so they probably got the damage but you didn't see it right away. Next time try watching the minis to see if they suddanly jump up after a few seconds.

Having said that, if that is whats going on then the devs could make it so the minis form humans start off the same as a NPP window by assuming what the initial mini would look like based on the damage but maybe there is more to it than that.
[Nov 19, 2003 1:08:13 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Rastigi



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Re: Cannon damage during PvP battle Reply to this Post
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jewles wrote: 
I have no proof that this is what happened but this appears to be whats going on so they probably got the damage but you didn't see it right away. Next time try watching the minis to see if they suddanly jump up after a few seconds.


I ha' seen sommat similar ta this, I be pretty sure this be what happened to ye. I ha' been wrong before, however.
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Vote Bubba for President in '08, cause Shrimpin' is Great!
Cleaver wrote: 
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[Nov 19, 2003 1:12:18 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Devonin

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Re: Cannon damage during PvP battle Reply to this Post
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You'll also notice if you get PvP'd or are fighting a Brig ship large enough to shoot you, that when your own ship has damage, and starting black blocks, when the swordfight starts, it appears on your own side that you are the only one who has taken damage at first.
[Nov 19, 2003 1:16:35 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Bran



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Re: Cannon damage during PvP battle Reply to this Post
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This very well could be. I'm quite familiar with the lag factor regarding minis, but hadn't taken into consideration that players might lag at a different rate than the swabbie. I don't think the damaged jumped up, but I honestly can't be certain. Next time I'll watch for that specifically.

In response to Argyle's request for details, here are far too many...

I was just getting ready to move my ship off Xi when I noticed another sloop in port with 3 pirates on board. I figured they had either just sold gems or were waiting to hit someone else who had. Either way, it should be fun. I charted to Heph. and set sail with myself, one other officer and two swabbies. We ran out to the first league point and turned about back toward the island. Suddenly there was an incoming green on the radar. I was certain that the player ship was chasing us. I initiated the engagement and caught them before they had built up to full sails. Once in the battle nav, they started running. At that point, I figured they were laden with something good so I gave chase. Fortunately, the officer I had on board is an excellent sailor, and she was giving me enough movement chits that we were able to run them down even though they had one more human than we did. During the chase, they fired four shots into the sea, and I fired four shots into their hull. We boarded and a fierce little swordfight followed, two of us and two swabbies vs. three of them and one swabbie. They fought well, clearly wanting to keep whatever was on board. We eventually won and took just over 2k in PoE and few units of misc. goods. They attempted to reengage, but we outran them and ported. The only communication I had with the other ship, was the captain insisting that I come back out and face them, which I didn't, in spite of his threats of hitting us with a war brig. I figured he had his opportunity to reengage us after the battle and we outran him fair and square.

As I said before, I normally avoid PvP, and I really haven't decided how I feel about this one. It was enjoyable and profitable...for us...but the opposing captain was clearly annoyed and frustrated. I have no desire to hinder the enjoyment of the game for any other player. I harbor no animosity toward the other crew and engaged them simply for fun, profit and something a little different. Looking at the other crew's PvP history...of their recent PvP battles, they initiated roughly half, so I suppose they aren't opposed to the idea of PvP. So should I be feeling this tiny twinge of guilt that I seem to have? I dunno...and that discussion belongs under the other topic regarding the ethics of PvP :)
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Blackbran
Captain of No Quarter
[Nov 19, 2003 2:51:03 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.dead-reckoning.org [Link]  Go to top 
ultima7



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Re: Cannon damage during PvP battle Reply to this Post
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Thats a great story and I think its the way the game was designed to work. If not why put the hints in the inns about players. If I had been your target I would have been a little miffed as well at losing 2k but I would have gotten over it. Especially since the boat had to have 20k in the hold and on its passengers to lose that much.

I think you made the right guess that they were trading Gems.
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Argyle
[Nov 19, 2003 3:04:59 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Demeter
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Re: Cannon damage during PvP battle Reply to this Post
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Players take 25% from other player ships' holds, so they would have had around 8k on them.
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[Nov 19, 2003 3:50:38 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
ultima7



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Re: Cannon damage during PvP battle Reply to this Post
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Demeter wrote: 
Players take 25% from other player ships' holds, so they would have had around 8k on them.


Ouch, I didn't realize the number was different for PvP. Do players also take 50% from booty?
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Argyle
[Nov 19, 2003 3:53:58 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Demeter
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Re: Cannon damage during PvP battle Reply to this Post
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Yes.

Brigands will take 10% of hold and poe in hand, 20% of booty.
Players will take 25% of hold and poe in hand, 50% of booty.

And gems are twice as likely to get taken so double the above figures for gems bought or won.
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"Demeter is sneeeaky." Trickykid

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[Nov 19, 2003 3:59:04 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Claudia



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Re: Cannon damage during PvP battle Reply to this Post
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A *certainty* of taking any booty gems from another player ship?

Well, that makes counterattacks more likely, now doesn't it?
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[Nov 19, 2003 4:12:44 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
ultima7



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Re: Cannon damage during PvP battle Reply to this Post
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Correlary question:

Do brigands have a booty or do we pillage from them in a different method? It does seem like we take a high percentage of our goods back if we reattack and win.
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Argyle
[Nov 19, 2003 4:14:15 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Silverstar

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Re: Cannon damage during PvP battle Reply to this Post
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Claudia wrote: 
A *certainty* of taking any booty gems from another player ship?


Player attacked me and lost, I got a gem they had. They immediately reattacked, and won, but did not get the gem back, even though it was still in booty, so... the odds are not 100% it would appear.

I ended up losing the gem because we couldn't take it anywhere, and it went away when the ship was docked for the night.
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Silvermoon, First Mate, Silver Dragon Trading Company
Silverstar, Instructor, Puzzle Pirates Academy (retired)
[Nov 19, 2003 5:22:54 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.livejournal.com/users/chirik    Chirik    yppSilvermoon [Link]  Go to top 
Nykkel



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Re: Cannon damage during PvP battle Reply to this Post
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Maybe it isn't a direct doubling of the percentage, but a second application of it?

What I mean is, if players normally take 50% of your booty, but gems have a double chance of being pillaged, perhaps it's not done as a "100% of your gems, and 50% of your other booty". Maybe it is "50% of your booty, and then 50% of the gems you still have". Since the bug with automatically getting single items pillaged has been fixed (having one of something and pretty much always losing it to a brigand, despite only a 10% chance), a 50% chance of losing them the first time plus a 50% additional chance of losing each gem that is left would not always take all of your gems.

However, if it really is just a doubled percentage, then I don't understand why your gem wasn't taken, Silver.
[Nov 19, 2003 5:40:41 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
AkMedic

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Heh we happened to be the other ship. I to had fun with it, even if ye would nae come back out of port to face us (as the exact quote was 'but I think you'll win").

Anyhow, I am curious as to why you seemed to have endless movement, while we did not gain one point of movement in battle, yet we had one extra human.

I noticed ye left out the fact that with half damage on my floundering vessel (as without movement we were quite limited), we still came quite close to winnin.

Is anyone else getting a movement bug? It seems some battles we get the usual movement, while others (as this one) we couldnt buy a move (and this was before the damage occured).

Also, my war brig is still waiting for yah should ye wish a rematch:)
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Captain of the greatest crew in the seas.
King of the honorable and just flag Imperio.

Retired

Adversus solem ne loquitor
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by AkMedic at Nov 19, 2003 5:50:16 AM]
[Nov 19, 2003 5:50:16 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    AlaskanParamedic [Link]  Go to top 
AkMedic

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For the record mate, we didn't take it personally either, and had fun. Most of the frustration came from the lack of movement, as that's not been the first time my mates (whom scored excellentsI might add) still couldnt muster up a move. Anyhow, twas fun, and like I said my brig be waitin;)

That being said, did I mention how much I hate being forced into running gems to make some poe? I really wish the battles were tweaked a bit, as without my main crew late nights I'm forced to improvise (hence the bloody 3 hour trade run to Xi, which after that loss, neeted me a 100 poe profit for me troubles,lol).

No hard feelings though, and movement aside, we almost had yah:) For the record, don't take it personal when we come back for our 2500 though eh...;)

For the debate, we actually had 11k, but we had divied, which I believe protects the poe a bit.
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Captain of the greatest crew in the seas.
King of the honorable and just flag Imperio.

Retired

Adversus solem ne loquitor
[Nov 19, 2003 5:51:58 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    AlaskanParamedic [Link]  Go to top 
Bran



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Re: Cannon damage during PvP battle Reply to this Post
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Good Captain Parthanos,

I'm quite pleased that you didn't take the attack personally. It was certainly not meant to be an affront. And yes, I thought there was a good chance you'd beat us if we allowed you to reengage. I believe what I told you was, "You might win this time ;)". The fight was extremely close, and as I said, your crew fought well and fiercely. I fully acknowledge that as crippled as you were, you nearly won. If I had it to do over again, I would probably try to put some more iron across your deck before boarding.

Regarding my seemingly endless movement capability...I can only accredit this to the officer I had on board with me, Anmelisa. She's really a remarkable sailor and with just her and a single swabbie at the ropes, I've never fallen short for movement (in a sloop, at least). The chits just seem to keep clicking. In fact, she made fun of me that night because I got distracted once during a battle and forgot to switch the radio button. "I'm glad we've got 12 left turns," she said. Heh.

Perhaps some evening when we've both got a good number from our crews online I'll take you up on your challenge. We can throw a couple of grand in our holds and meet brig to brig just for sport. Until then, fair winds to ye, mate.
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Blackbran
Captain of No Quarter
[Nov 19, 2003 6:55:37 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.dead-reckoning.org [Link]  Go to top 
AkMedic

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Re: Cannon damage during PvP battle Reply to this Post
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Bran wrote: 
Good Captain Parthanos,

I'm quite pleased that you didn't take the attack personally. It was certainly not meant to be an affront. And yes, I thought there was a good chance you'd beat us if we allowed you to reengage. I believe what I told you was, "You might win this time ;)". The fight was extremely close, and as I said, your crew fought well and fiercely. I fully acknowledge that as crippled as you were, you nearly won. If I had it to do over again, I would probably try to put some more iron across your deck before boarding.

Regarding my seemingly endless movement capability...I can only accredit this to the officer I had on board with me, Anmelisa. She's really a remarkable sailor and with just her and a single swabbie at the ropes, I've never fallen short for movement (in a sloop, at least). The chits just seem to keep clicking. In fact, she made fun of me that night because I got distracted once during a battle and forgot to switch the radio button. "I'm glad we've got 12 left turns," she said. Heh.

Perhaps some evening when we've both got a good number from our crews online I'll take you up on your challenge. We can throw a couple of grand in our holds and meet brig to brig just for sport. Until then, fair winds to ye, mate.


:) Sounds like a plan, twas a good battle, and I welcome the challenge mate. My complements to ye and yer crew.

We actually had fought our way to Xi, and were out of cannon. By the time I looked up and realised ye wern't a bot, I had dumped 4 in the drink. Oh well, the Kraken needs his iron (as ye all keep taking his blood).

I am glad neither of us are bitter about it, as I think some folks need to ease up a bit. We're pirates, if ye don't attack players once in awhile, how will ye ever know if yer skills are any good.

On loosing, bah as ye can see from our record, we usually loose as many as we win. Half the fun in it really:)

Im not sure why we have had movement issues. My mates sail quite well, and recently we instituted a training program, which has evened out alot of my new pirates skills. I've noticed it however, as some battles the movement seems normal, while others (and without damage I migth add) we creep along. Perhaps there are other factors I'm not seeing in battle.

Anyhow my friend, no worries. I'll hit yah up for a 'loan' sometime down the road, Until then know there is no bad blood between us.
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Captain of the greatest crew in the seas.
King of the honorable and just flag Imperio.

Retired

Adversus solem ne loquitor
[Nov 19, 2003 7:11:48 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    AlaskanParamedic [Link]  Go to top 
joedigriz

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Re: Cannon damage during PvP battle Reply to this Post
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AkMedic wrote: 
Im not sure why we have had movement issues. My mates sail quite well, and recently we instituted a training program, which has evened out alot of my new pirates skills. I've noticed it however, as some battles the movement seems normal, while others (and without damage I migth add) we creep along. Perhaps there are other factors I'm not seeing in battle.

There is something I've noticed, and I wonder if Nemo or someone can confirm this: token production is affected by either a) how fast you were going when you entered battle, or b) how long the pirates had been sailing just before battle (and how well, obviously).

At least as far as I can observe, if I get engaged coming out of port, even with a couple of good-to-great sailors, tokens are hard to come by initially. Whereas with a full head of steam and a couple of leagues behind me, even with just 2 swabbies on the rigging, I can get at least 1, maybe 2, tokens per turn. (At least initially; after about 5 turns, production seems to drop off.)
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Garbuck - Red Mantis Scapegoat and Pretty Pretty Princess
[Nov 19, 2003 8:09:17 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    jal_95    joedigriz [Link]  Go to top 
Sahib



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Actually, I had a similar bug happen to me the other day -- sailing alone with 3 swabbies and engaged by insta-brigs, I had the usual 1 on carp 2 on sails when I noticed that not only were no tokens being generated, but we were slowly accumulating damage. I switched the swabbie on carp with one of the ones on sails ("Maybe the swabbies have different skills now?" I thought to myself), and joined in on sails myself while still doing battle nav...
No tokens.
Damage still increasing.
Wondering what the scupper was happening with my swabbies, I took full advantage of the prevailing currents, and managed to disengage one square ahead of the brigands with no move tokens to me name. When the duty report showed up for the battle, it had one name on it -- one of the swabbies on sails. Somehow the game managed to not register either of the two swabbies as being on stations (including the one on carp -- ouch!), nor did it recognize that I was sailing as well during a good portion of the battle!

PS: Yes, I /bugged it.
[Nov 19, 2003 11:31:47 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
AkMedic

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Sahib wrote: 
Actually, I had a similar bug happen to me the other day -- sailing alone with 3 swabbies and engaged by insta-brigs, I had the usual 1 on carp 2 on sails when I noticed that not only were no tokens being generated, but we were slowly accumulating damage. I switched the swabbie on carp with one of the ones on sails ("Maybe the swabbies have different skills now?" I thought to myself), and joined in on sails myself while still doing battle nav...
No tokens.
Damage still increasing.
Wondering what the scupper was happening with my swabbies, I took full advantage of the prevailing currents, and managed to disengage one square ahead of the brigands with no move tokens to me name. When the duty report showed up for the battle, it had one name on it -- one of the swabbies on sails. Somehow the game managed to not register either of the two swabbies as being on stations (including the one on carp -- ouch!), nor did it recognize that I was sailing as well during a good portion of the battle!

PS: Yes, I /bugged it.


As did I last night. However, we had two humans on sails. Which was even more strange as we watched ourselves get circled and plunked 8 times. Not plesent,lol.
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Captain of the greatest crew in the seas.
King of the honorable and just flag Imperio.

Retired

Adversus solem ne loquitor
[Nov 19, 2003 11:53:22 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    AlaskanParamedic [Link]  Go to top 
Slummock



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joedigriz wrote: 
token production is affected by either a) how fast you were going when you entered battle, or b) how long the pirates had been sailing just before battle (and how well, obviously)


i hadn't thought of this till you posted that...

the frequency of token generation is dependant on how well your sailors are doing (as shown by the ship icon thing) so if youve just left port then even excellent sailors are going to have only a blue/green sailing icon (or less if they're setting something big up). so you won't get many tokens at all.

maybe swabies take time to build up steam too, so swaping them over like that may have made matters worse.

edit: damn my tendancy to leave words out of sentances.
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Glub (again)
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Slummock at Aug 9, 2005 4:00:00 PM]
[Aug 9, 2005 4:00:00 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
ultima7



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Yeah, I have to agree with Slumrock. If your sailors are working with golden sails as you enter sea battle you will get tokens very quickly. But if they have just started the puzzle it takes much longer to get them.

Also I was wondering if having a high nav score as you enter sea battle helps as well. Since after a battle your nav rating gets posted with the others even though you were not doing that puzzle, do you actually get the benefit of nav during battle. If so this could account for a lot of the difference in token generation between battles.
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Argyle
[Nov 19, 2003 11:26:14 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
jewles



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Silverstar wrote: 
Claudia wrote: 
A *certainty* of taking any booty gems from another player ship?


Player attacked me and lost, I got a gem they had. They immediately reattacked, and won, but did not get the gem back, even though it was still in booty, so... the odds are not 100% it would appear.

I ended up losing the gem because we couldn't take it anywhere, and it went away when the ship was docked for the night.


Care to comment Demeter? Is it 50% times two which is 100% or is it 50% rolled twice which is really 75%? Or is it something else entirely?
[Nov 19, 2003 11:52:55 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
atteSmythe

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jewles wrote: 
Care to comment Demeter? Is it 50% times two which is 100% or is it 50% rolled twice which is really 75%? Or is it something else entirely?

I don't have a quote to back this up at the moment, but it's been asserted that this is rolled for each item in your hold individually. So, rolled twice.

atteSmythe,
who heard it from...
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Attesmythe receives loot: [Gauntlets of Social Responsibility]
Attesmythe receives loot: [Ring of Mandatory Selflessness]

[Nov 19, 2003 11:55:36 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://attesmythe.com [Link]  Go to top 
Roleni

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It seems that token production is based on a function of a player's average sailing rating during that turn and ship size. With two swabbies (which always get fines) on sails I get two tokens per turn on a sloop, but with players right out of port your production is going to be pretty horrible. With a pair of excellents I think I get about four per turn, perhaps an occasional five, which is more than enough. I'm guessing three incredibles would get maybe seven or even eight. Hm, I've had twenty-five of a move before...=p
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Thalatta & others

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Hera tells ye, "Purple is the most awesome colour ever!"
[Nov 19, 2003 11:59:23 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
jewles



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I think you are probably right but it was stated that gems are pillaged at twice the rate of other goods. The question is does that mean the probability for each individual gem is doubled or is it rolled twice for each gem. Peghead already said they were changing the message to be clear that it was only the gems affected so I think this should be made clear too.
[Nov 20, 2003 12:18:09 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
atteSmythe

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Ah, I see, I see...

atteSmythe,
realization breaking over him like a wave over a big stupid rock
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Attesmythe receives loot: [Gauntlets of Social Responsibility]
Attesmythe receives loot: [Ring of Mandatory Selflessness]

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