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Radway



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I would like to throw in some suggestions for actual original content that IMO would make a great addition to the game. I will start by suggesting what I think is easiest to get done and what I find least problematic.
First suggestion: introduce a new board puzzle. The idea is simply a "battleship" sort of board game where you can play 1v1 (not sure if multi vs. multi is possible), the board is simply the normal battle board tiles, the ships vary in size based on in-game existing ships (for example: sloops, war brigs, war frigs and war frigates). Other "special pieces" for spicing things up can be thought out and added by developers if they want to be more creative with it (my own suggestion is something like a chain shot that hits 2 tiles instead of one or a fire shot that hits a 2x2 and so on, gaining these special shots will have to depend on some sort of a combo or whatever).
Second suggestion: A lot of us love b-nav and sometimes would love to just relax and fight some ships without all the side effects of running a pillage of any type, so my second suggestion is what I would call a "blockade arena". The idea can be explained simply with the term "kadesim", you get a ship to nav, and you won't need any jobbers, stock or sailing, but to be able to take part, fees must be pair (preferably a fixed fee so it can't get abused). My suggestion (open to discussion) is that any monarch/royalties who own an island can host an arena through the palace, hosting will cost them x amount of poe, and in return, they get back 10% (just a random number) of the fees income, while the rest of the poe gets flushed away in the system. This will require a new addition to the palace, which is a chest that's accessible by monarch and royalties of the flag (this addition would be relevant in another idea that I have about revamping blockades, but I won't mention this here). Blockade Arenas should also allow people to host 1vs.1 or multi vs. multi fights (maybe up to 12 vs.12 like it is on tables), it should also allow blockade tournaments where people can play in teams and compete for a big prize.
Third Suggestion:
This one is not a new content or a new puzzle, but rather an attempt to fix the problem with poker (and other card games possibly?). I'd like to point out some things before I get into the suggestion. The main aspect of YPP is pillaging and puzzling to earn money, while on-land activities are supposed to be for fun and relaxing, however the current situation suggests that playing poker can earn you much more money than any other activity in the game (considering the time, effort and skill put into poker compared to other stuff). my suggestion is to connect both parts with what I would call "Foulness scale". The level of "foulness" goes down when a pirate is at sea doing anything (stationing, joining SMHs, doing an expo run where stations are not needed but TH or foraging is needed occasionally for example), and once a pirate is no longer at sea, the "foulness" bar starts rising (of course this can be balanced in a specific way to make sure it doesn't become extremely painful to deal with). Carousing also makes the bar go up a little faster with each hand you get dealt etc. (I'm speaking mainly about poker because of what i mentioned before about how much PoE can be made through poker, when it's supposed to be there for having fun mainly). and once the bar reaches a certain level, the pirate will start randomly folding hands, calling all in or raising due to their bad temperament. A warning message shortly before this random act starts happening can be added to give pirates a fair warning so they can decide beforehand whether they wanna stop or keep going on.
All ideas are open for discussion, and all opinions are welcome :)
PS: I have more ideas specifically about revamping blockades and Atlantis, but I didn't include them here because they are not well formulated yet, and they will require a lot of work from developers to get that done, so based on how they respond to this thread, I might get motivated enough to make a new thread about that.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Radway at Jan 20, 2021 6:29:54 PM]
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nate3990

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I like the in-game casual unranked bnav/cadesim idea; a lot of people would like to practice and have some fun.

As for the poker idea, I have mixed feelings. While I agree that poker being the most lucrative way to make money is a problem, I'm not sure very many people would support a time limit on the number of minutes or hours a pirate is allowed to play. Plus, people would just get around that with alts.
Instead of limiting the amount of time pirates can play poker (which would probably be the most controversial and unpopular thing ever), I feel like a small rake as little as 0.5% per hand should be implemented as a small way to combat inflation.
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Spinnakerr on Emerald | Natetegreat on Cerulean
Originally started on Cobalt, now playing Emerald! Returned to the game October 2020.
[Jan 20, 2021 9:14:25 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Radway



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Thank you for your feedback!

 
As for the poker idea, I have mixed feelings. While I agree that poker being the most lucrative way to make money is a problem, I'm not sure very many people would support a time limit on the number of minutes or hours a pirate is allowed to play. Plus, people would just get around that with alts.

The limit is certainly not a few minutes, and as I mentioned, it should be balanced in a way that it's not a pain to deal with (say for example 15-30 minutes at sea is enough to have a poker night with your friends). The main goal of this kind of change is to turn poker into a fun part of the game, instead of an overpowered income source. As for alts, the game already has some limitations to alts like not being able to join big tables until a certain level of exp. and with the addition of this idea I think poker alts will be rendered useless.

 
Instead of limiting the amount of time pirates can play poker (which would probably be the most controversial and unpopular thing ever), I feel like a small rake as little as 0.5% per hand should be implemented as a small way to combat inflation.

This could also work if the % was higher, but again, what's a 10% when you're cashing out 10m? nothing really. you're still making way too much compared to someone who's spending the same time on a ship.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Radway at Jan 21, 2021 1:25:48 PM]
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nate3990

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These are good points, but no matter what the change, poker will ALWAYS have a higher potential earnings (or losses) than any sea activity. It's just a fact that cannot possibly change unless they got rid of the 20k-200k table (not happening). Arguably, poker can make lots of money, but keep in mind it's actually a net neutral change/no change in poe being added or removed from the game. The poe someone wins from poker comes from other players' losses - for every 10m won, others have lost that same 10m. If bad poker players decide they want to give away their PoE over and over, well, that's their right I guess. Taking away 0.5%, 1% (10% seems a bit high) would have a small impact on winnings yet still serve as a significant PoE sink considering how much PoE passes through the high stakes poker tables every day.

I'm not sure if forcing people to go to sea activities makes sense. Some players don't have the time commitment to job onto a pillage or SMH, and nobody wants to be forced to puzzle with the navy. As someone who runs regular pillages, I would hate to job someone who only stays for 15 minutes and half-arses a puzzle just to reset their poker timer.
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Spinnakerr on Emerald | Natetegreat on Cerulean
Originally started on Cobalt, now playing Emerald! Returned to the game October 2020.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by nate3990 at Jan 21, 2021 2:52:56 PM]
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RonenOsden

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Instead of limiting the amount of time pirates can play poker (which would probably be the most controversial and unpopular thing ever), I feel like a small rake as little as 0.5% per hand should be implemented as a small way to combat inflation.

This could also work if the % was higher, but again, what's a 10% when you're cashing out 10m? nothing really. you're still making way too much compared to someone who's spending the same time on a ship.


In RL poker rooms, a rake is taken from the pot every hand. Generally 2.5-10%, so even at 2.5% - consider 2 people at showdown, one had 400k other 1.2m - around 950k in the pot, rake is 23750. Barely anything, like one kraken egg (considering the hundreds/thousands collected every day) - so really no reason for any complaints from the player base.

I fully support adding a rake as a worthwhile change, and have supported a rake from the introduction of Poker.

The amount of poe that changes hands everyday on the tables, must be absurd.

Unfortunately, everything poe related on Emerald is a direct result of the doubloon model. It gives you a way to buy wealth, and many do so. (not that the sub model doesnt do this either...as Ive bought alot of sub for boxes and sold the contents.)

I have been and will always be an advocate of the subscription model over doubloons; all the different badges with different decays/etc, doubloons to deliver all items, just gross.
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Cptnronen Born And Raised On The Cobalt Ocean
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by RonenOsden at Jan 21, 2021 3:18:17 PM]
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patgangster

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First suggestion: Yes! Somewhat simple idea, feels like it fits well in the PP universe, can be added to the parlor games table!

Second suggestion: Interesting idea for an in-game application of cadesim. I like it, seems good to add. Solves a problem in the game where any friendly/for fun/practice blockade is such a huge resource drain/jobber requiring thing.

Third suggestion: I disagree with this one. Poker might be "too good" of a profitable activity for some to do in this game, but forcing people out at sea is not the solution, a big part of this game is that you can do whatever you want whenever you want (whether that be crafting, parlor games, being out at sea, trading, or just nothing at all), and I'll disagree with limiting that. A well-implemented rake or other solution to make poker slightly worse would do better. (and/or buff seaside activities!)
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TriplePat, Emerald.
[Jan 22, 2021 2:41:16 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Scottays

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First suggestion: Yes! Somewhat simple idea, feels like it fits well in the PP universe, can be added to the parlor games table!


Anything new is always a positive. Poker can get stale as well i believe it should have always been a poe sink regarding a poker rake.

 
Second suggestion: Interesting idea for an in-game application of cadesim. I like it, seems good to add. Solves a problem in the game where any friendly/for fun/practice blockade is such a huge resource drain/jobber requiring thing.


For them to do that, whoever owns the current Cadesim would have to sell it to Grey Havens or give the rights to Grey Havens for them to implement it in the game. Or they might have their own one still from years ago but who knows.

 
Third suggestion: I disagree with this one. Poker might be "too good" of a profitable activity for some to do in this game, but forcing people out at sea is not the solution, a big part of this game is that you can do whatever you want whenever you want (whether that be crafting, parlor games, being out at sea, trading, or just nothing at all), and I'll disagree with limiting that. A well-implemented rake or other solution to make poker slightly worse would do better. (and/or buff seaside activities!)


I agree, buffing seaside activities seems unlikely when they decided to cap the greedies as that was making too much of a profit.

Fourth Suggestion, Since some players from Emerald have only commented on this and do not like this idea for some reason. I want Skilled Swabbies to be a thing I've already explained multiple ways that it can be implemented. I understand Emerald does not need them as they plenty of people on the ocean. What about Cerulean? Meridian? Jade/Opal? Ice? Implement it to those oceans only not Emerald as a good way for players to enjoy their previous oceans. Can they still play on Emerald? absolutely. The other oceans need something different not the same because 10 v 400 players, same game, same updates and etc, you know which ocean you prefer.
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[Jan 22, 2021 1:59:14 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Radway



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These are good points, but no matter what the change, poker will ALWAYS have a higher potential earnings (or losses) than any sea activity. It's just a fact that cannot possibly change unless they got rid of the 20k-200k table (not happening). Arguably, poker can make lots of money, but keep in mind it's actually a net neutral change/no change in poe being added or removed from the game. The poe someone wins from poker comes from other players' losses - for every 10m won, others have lost that same 10m. If bad poker players decide they want to give away their PoE over and over, well, that's their right I guess. Taking away 0.5%, 1% (10% seems a bit high) would have a small impact on winnings yet still serve as a significant PoE sink considering how much PoE passes through the high stakes poker tables every day.

Sure thing, poker will always be superior, and those who are good at it deserve the money, but things like AOF and AOA where people can cash out with millions within maybe 30 minutes due to PURE LUCK is not the same. I do agree that a 10% rake is too high, I was just highlighting the fact that cashing out with 9m instead of 10m after 30 minutes of playing poker is unfair to hard-working players, and you could argue that everyone can do this and win, it's not exclusive for certain people, but the game is called "Puzzle" Pirates, not Poker Pirates.
The point I'm trying to get through is that poker should be MAINLY for fun and profit shouldn't be the main goal of poker (you can compare poker to all other parlor games like drinking, spades, hearts and even SF, none of them are done exclusively to get super rich, although you could just do that).
 
Third suggestion: I disagree with this one....

and that's why I'm a little disappointed that you completely disagree, I only threw this one in and put it as my last suggestion because I knew a lot of discussion will be about this idea, and I was hoping that we could find a more balanced/ realistic approach to it.
 
I'm not sure if forcing people to go to sea activities makes sense. Some players don't have the time commitment to job onto a pillage or SMH, and nobody wants to be forced to puzzle with the navy. As someone who runs regular pillages, I would hate to job someone who only stays for 15 minutes and half-arses a puzzle just to reset their poker timer.

 
...(whether that be crafting, parlor games, being out at sea, trading, or just nothing at all), and I'll disagree with limiting that.....

All the numbers and details of my suggestion are just examples to give a general picture of how things could be, I'm sure there's a better way to make this idea sound more reasonable and work out (not saying that it has to, just trying to get you to think about it abstractly and maybe you could come up with something completely different that would work better).
As for the poker rake, it only creates a new PoE sink without really dealing with any of the issues caused by poker in the game (specially people who play the game exclusively to poker, again it's called Puzzle Pirates, not Poker Pirates), and speaking of that, I totally agree to what Pat said that a major aspect of the game is the freedom to do anything, any time you want with no limits, however, we do have limits that regulate the game to make it balanced and make sure that your "free" actions don't cause problems to the game or to others while rewarding you greatly (just like it is with poker). Maybe a good idea would be completely revamping poker into a more pirate-y theme, where it becomes more about fun and less about profit, then none of this discussion would be needed (and I truly hope someone comes up with a creative idea of doing that!)
[Jan 22, 2021 2:02:53 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
patgangster

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Maybe a good idea would be completely revamping poker into a more pirate-y theme, where it becomes more about fun and less about profit, then none of this discussion would be needed (and I truly hope someone comes up with a creative idea of doing that!)


I'd LOVE to see a good idea for this that keeps it fun without being overly profitable. Poker, as it is, does not get played if not profitable (see: Obsidian, where it took two harsh nerfs and as a result almost no one played it)

The graphics on the poker table do specifically state "PIRATE POKER", so perhaps the solution is to actually make it piratey in some way?

I'll throw out a first, perhaps bad suggestion, inspired by something a certain poker website ran for a while: "poker with cheats". Give people random "cheat cards" to use every so often, which you can use to break the game. Didn't like that turn? redraw it. (Or heck, straight up destroy it?) Wonder what your opponent has? Reveal one of their cards. Afraid your opponent will mess up your hand or the board? Use a protecting card.

(Perhaps, for balance, that new poker should be implemented similarly to other parlor games where X players are required to start and everyone starts with the same amount of cheats every time, no rebuys)
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TriplePat, Emerald.
[Jan 22, 2021 3:09:54 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
patgangster

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For them to do that, whoever owns the current Cadesim would have to sell it to Grey Havens or give the rights to Grey Havens for them to implement it in the game. Or they might have their own one still from years ago but who knows.


Or, here's an idea: The technology to create bnav boards, blockades, teams, and ships already exists in Puzzle Pirates. This can be used to implement something with similar behaviors to third-party cadesims.
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TriplePat, Emerald.
[Jan 22, 2021 3:25:08 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
nate3990

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Yes, I agree with Radway that poker should be a fun side activity and not the main means to make a lot of PoE. Based on the opinions of the posts so far, it seems people would support a rake but anything more significant like nerfing the high stakes table or limiting poker time would probably not get enough support to make it viable.

Also, while this is not a good reason why poker should not be nerfed, a friend of mine did bring up that bad poker players buying doubloons after they get cleaned is a major source of income for GH, so it's unlikely they would be willing to cut out a big chunk of income.

As for the argument about whether it's worth keeping poker only players around for the player count (assuming many quit should poker be nerfed), I'm undecided on this one ???? without poker, blockade jobbers would probably not get max pay + tops as much anymore lol
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Spinnakerr on Emerald | Natetegreat on Cerulean
Originally started on Cobalt, now playing Emerald! Returned to the game October 2020.
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ryujinpp

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Maybe a good idea would be completely revamping poker into a more pirate-y theme, where it becomes more about fun and less about profit, then none of this discussion would be needed (and I truly hope someone comes up with a creative idea of doing that!)


I'd LOVE to see a good idea for this that keeps it fun without being overly profitable. Poker, as it is, does not get played if not profitable (see: Obsidian, where it took two harsh nerfs and as a result almost no one played it)

The graphics on the poker table do specifically state "PIRATE POKER", so perhaps the solution is to actually make it piratey in some way?

I'll throw out a first, perhaps bad suggestion, inspired by something a certain poker website ran for a while: "poker with cheats". Give people random "cheat cards" to use every so often, which you can use to break the game. Didn't like that turn? redraw it. (Or heck, straight up destroy it?) Wonder what your opponent has? Reveal one of their cards. Afraid your opponent will mess up your hand or the board? Use a protecting card.

(Perhaps, for balance, that new poker should be implemented similarly to other parlor games where X players are required to start and everyone starts with the same amount of cheats every time, no rebuys)


perhaps introduce a new set of "poker cheats" trinkets (similar to BK trinkets) which can only be won randomly after winning a seabattle with certain criterias:
1. Awarded to pirates onboard for every X-th seabattle won in the same pillage (count resets if one leaves a pillage to join another pillage to prevent/minimise hopping)
eg If you job on a vessel that has won 2 battles prior and assuming X=3, those who were there for the last 2 previous wins will receive a random "poker cheats" trinket but you will need to stay on for 2 more wins before you get to receive your random trinket;
2. In order to prevent players from spamming alts jobbing with multiple pillages concurrently with poor scores (which would result in some straightlining).. perhaps one have to perform a duty report of at least Good (Fine, Poor & Booched are excluded) on top of winning seabattles in order to qualify for the random trinket
3. This new set of trinkets can then be exchanged at the Trading Post for different type of "poker cheats" token

This random trinket should be tradeable so that hardcore poker players who would not pillage at all would still be able to buy them.. supply & demand will determine the price

New source of income for players who enjoy pillage with poker players "contributing" in a different way towards pillage.. poker players of cos, can also job/run pillages if they find the going price for said trinkets too expensive to their taste
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Galene tells ye, "I reserve the right to not deliver prizes to you anymore in the future :P"
Galene tells ye, "You crashed me 6 times!"

Ryujin on all oceans
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ryujinpp

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Yes, I agree with Radway that poker should be a fun side activity and not the main means to make a lot of PoE. Based on the opinions of the posts so far, it seems people would support a rake but anything more significant like nerfing the high stakes table or limiting poker time would probably not get enough support to make it viable.

Also, while this is not a good reason why poker should not be nerfed, a friend of mine did bring up that bad poker players buying doubloons after they get cleaned is a major source of income for GH, so it's unlikely they would be willing to cut out a big chunk of income.

As for the argument about whether it's worth keeping poker only players around for the player count (assuming many quit should poker be nerfed), I'm undecided on this one ???? without poker, blockade jobbers would probably not get max pay + tops as much anymore lol


if this is a source of income for GH, adding "poker cheat" trinkets would add to the cause too since the bad poker players would want to "buy" these trinkets from players who pillages as it would improve their chances at winning at poker
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Galene tells ye, "I reserve the right to not deliver prizes to you anymore in the future :P"
Galene tells ye, "You crashed me 6 times!"

Ryujin on all oceans
[Jan 22, 2021 6:19:50 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    https://www.facebook.com/PuzzlePirates [Link]  Go to top 
Radway



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(Perhaps, for balance, that new poker should be implemented similarly to other parlor games where X players are required to start and everyone starts with the same amount of cheats every time, no rebuys)

I really like this idea and I think on its own is enough to achieve what we're discussing, in addition to the idea of having some tricky/playful cards poker will become a game of fun rather than a game of making bank (you still can make 1m+ poker tables if you wanna have fun and make money at the same time, just like people do in TD, Drinking, Spades and other games).
 
perhaps introduce a new set of "poker cheats" trinkets (similar to BK trinkets)....

Honestly I find your idea more extreme than mine, lol. I don't mean to dismiss it completely however, but looking at it, I can see a lot of things going horribly wrong, specially with #2 since a lot of jobbers won't have the chance to win any, not to mention WF/GF pillies where a lot of people don't get to even station (I understand that the idea is to prevent abuse but it has big side effects). Also this still doesn't take people off poker tables and I can imagine it making some poker players profit even more with the cheats (specially if people can use cheats on any tables at any time even if there are other players on the table who don't have any cheats)
 
Also, while this is not a good reason why poker should not be nerfed, a friend of mine did bring up that bad poker players buying doubloons after they get cleaned is a major source of income for GH, so it's unlikely they would be willing to cut out a big chunk of income.

Sorry, but that's not a good argument, we're feeding something that's certainly ruining the game just to secure some of the game's income, that's unreasonable to me. Also, let's not forget about the undeniable fact that a lot of poker players RMT for their poe, which hurts the game MASSIVELY.
 
without poker, blockade jobbers would probably not get max pay + tops as much anymore lol

That doesn't sound very bad, I'm one of the people against paying tops during blockades, because a 10k pay (which is the max limit set by game designers) is already a good pay (to put that in perspective, think about how nobody can load a SMH during blockades, not because there aren't enough people, but because even a 5k blockade is more profitable than the best citrun in terms of PoE/min(hour). So, getting rid of extra tops and bringing the blockade scene back to a reasonable pay where smaller flags can somewhat compete and get involved in the kading scene is actually a good side effect. (in my opinion at least).
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nate3990

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I think for blockade pay to be kept at 9999, there would need to be more poe sinks. I guess your proposal of nerfing poker would have the effect of stopping poe from concentrating into the same people and spread it more fairly among the general player base since there wouldn't anything outside of wagers or getting lucky with VO when running a SMH that would create a massive potential profit.
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Spinnakerr on Emerald | Natetegreat on Cerulean
Originally started on Cobalt, now playing Emerald! Returned to the game October 2020.
[Jan 25, 2021 10:22:18 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Donsmythe

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Ryujin's idea has potential if you make some tweaks to intertwine it a bit more with the YPP economy. Also, it has the problem of the market eventually saturating - once everyone has their trinket, the fun stops. This could fix that.

The tweak I'd propose is a new class of item that works like a sword, mug, bludgeon, etc. and has to be equipped. It would have to provide a *very* minor advantage, and not a game breaking one. (I'd also support the addition of a similar set of items for the other carousing games that currently lack such items like TD and the other card games. This would give the games an interesting twist that sets them apart from the same vanilla game anywhere else outside of YPP, too.)

I would probably have weaveries supply it since they don't have any direct to consumer offerings. (Different arguments could be made for furnishers or other shop types, too, I suppose.)

You would of course still start with trinkets won in sea battles, to get people out on the ocean. Those would be taken to a trading post to purchase a design. The design would be required to order the item. (So you are adding two PoE sinks - first getting the design and second ordering the item, which sinks PoE as tax and also consumes commodities that are themselves PoE sinks.)

The item would also dust after being used for a certain number of poker hands, to prevent market saturation - you can't just buy it and have it forever. (And it should only be managed via normal inventory management, since I like the idea that you have to leave a game to equip a new one if you play long enough to dust your item. It could add an interesting dynamic to things.)

It would be a huge amount of work to add all this to the game, but a system like this could make for an interesting and fun thing for players to interact with if done right.

Of course though, the simpler answer to all this that I have supported since day one, is to just add a rake to poker. Just to get another PoE sink into action, a rake should be done regardless of whatever else is done about poker, if anything ever is.

(And I doubt even something as simple as adding a rake will ever happen, due to lack of developer bandwidth - most people really have no idea how much they have to accomplish with *severely* limited resources. There's a lot more than meets the eye behind the scenes. Maintaining an old code base is a nightmare and extending it even more so.)
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