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Scribone



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So I've been thinking about this idea for a while now and with the new developer here i believe that its time to suggest and see how this goes.

the idea is to decrease the amount of pirates needed to man a ship by a certain percentage, For example the War frigate holds 75 pirates right now,i think it should be decreased to say 45-50 .. Xebecs from 45 to 30? Wbs from 30 to 20? etc. All of these numbers are just random numbers that im throwing out there but im sure if this idea gets adopted by the developer he can do some more detailed maths and figure out a good percentage to decrease ship sizes by.

Edit: I don't think was clear enough on explaining this, So basically my idea is that ship sizes need to be permanently downgraded to smaller amounts to adapt with the current population. A full WF is 75 now after downgrade it should be 45-50 for a full WF

We all know the population of YPP decreased over the years, and i think its only fair to decrease the ship sizes along with it...

I am no expert on coding or whatever it is that goes behind changing such a thing but i am sure that its not going to be easy, Though im sure it will be worth it... As this will change mostly every scene that uses ships and it would increase the pace of the ocean in a way which to me sounds more enjoyable.

Blockading:

We would have more ships on a blockade board with the same amount of jobbers, That would be more fun as a kade. and ofcourse, more ships gonna be sunk, so the demand for ships is going to increase... Boom there you have it, a healthy poe sink. You're welcome OMs :P

Sea monster hunts:

The loading time for a SMH has been increasing ever since the quarantine ended and i believe that it will increase even more as more lockdowns will get lifted soon in the coming months/weeks ( Who knows ). It is not that bad right now for people with a decent reputation to load a ship but the change in ship sizes will allow us to load faster, Thus saving jobbers times AND new navers can have a chance at bnaving and become a new boss at monster hunting!

Pillaging:

With the way elite pillies are being run right now, Baghlahs are the mostly used ships by good bnavers that know what they're doing... And holding 18 People for 7-10 battles sounds very unreasonable and some people struggle to hold 18 pirates for 2-3 hours and obviously if we get 1 leaver the whole pay ramp is screwed and the pillage pay goes down drastically... If we can change baghlahs to hold 12 maybe instead of 18.. It would be easier to screen for 12 people that are willing to stay the whole run than to screen for 18... ( Reminder: Those numbers are all completely random )


If you're reading this then that means you read the whole thing, I appreciate you reading this.. Please leave a reply with an idea or your opinion on this idea.. Who knows maybe we can make this happen (or atleast get the idea to the OMs/Devs ) if enough people like the idea and we can get some change into YPP and make it a better game than it already is!
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Scrib on Emerald ocean
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Scribone at Dec 5, 2020 11:24:09 PM]
[Dec 5, 2020 9:07:57 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Ypppedro

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+1 to everything.

Added tidbit for the effects on Pillaging, specifically for sloops:

As we know Sloops are the smallest available ship. If we decrease all boats sizes that would mean stations would decrease for sloops as well... doing this on a sloop may even decrease to very small amount. Possibly small enough to be solo manned.

At this point in time you can solo man a sloop but you will run out of moves very soon in battle. If Baghlahs are being decreased to 12 (for example) then Dhows/Fanchuans would have to be decreased as well (maybe 7-8?) and therefore ensuing a domino effect of decreasing all ships.

Starting from the top, a GF can fill up to 159 people. Back in the day that was possible to fill on any given day. Clearly, at this point, thats not feasible without some serious convincing to pirates. This can definitely be lowered.

At the bottom, bear with me on this. Here is an example of the proposed change for a sloop:




https://ibb.co/hVh0XQ0


Further deceasing the stations on the smallest ship (Sloop) would allow for a more flexible usage of it. This can include possibly opening the door for legit 1v1 PVPs. (maybe?)

I'm sure many other things would need to be rebalanced as well (ie. Sails to allow a single swabbie to provide enough moves during battle).

In addition, this could bring attention to new players who wouldn't need to depend on anyone to job for them so they can have the freedom to solo pillage.... lets be honest the bnav navy missions are terrible and don't allow for any expos or any fair poe to be made.

Sloops may have to be completely disqualified from Blockades altogether if that makes balancing too difficult.

Overall i think its a nice idea. I believe it will increase the pace of the game and I hope something can be taken from this :)
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Pedro on Emerald
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by Ypppedro at Dec 5, 2020 9:51:15 PM]
[Dec 5, 2020 9:42:20 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Scottays

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+1 to scribs idea, regarding decreasing sloop as well you would have to make sails more powerful on the sloop as well.
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[Dec 5, 2020 9:50:04 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
patgangster

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I had thoughts about it a while ago, and made a google doc with a few sets of possible changes.

It's mostly stuff I / a few people I talked to came up with pretty quickly in a short amount of time, but it may be worth posting and raise some discussions/thoughts from others.

I support this idea regardless of the actual population size, as even when the population was much larger, the amount of people that wanted to nav vs the amount of people that got to nav balance was already off.
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TriplePat, Emerald.
[Dec 6, 2020 4:01:19 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Jcmorgan6

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I've previously discussed this with Triplepat and he's proposed numbers for discussion which can be found here . I don't see it mentioned, but if this was implemented there would have to be another rebalancing of voyage types.

HS, Atlantis and Flotillas would need reduced payout, probably best done by just letting you TH less from each ship you sink. I'd suggest doing it that way because it would balance Atlantis where the pay from Citadels would not increase, but sinking the monsters would.

IOs would need rebalancing given the number of pirates you fight for each ship size would be off.

VRs would remain largely the same, with the exception that fighting "Huge" ones might be even more unattainable. So maybe it would be a good idea to reduce the numbers you fight here too, which then might require a rebalance of how much damage each cannon fired does.

CI would remain largely unaffected, except for the fact that CI might become marginally easier, given the meta is often an undermanned sloop these days. This might also throw people off trying to do a "standard" 7 man run if the sloops holds (random numbers) 5 and then cutter holds 9. Not necessarily a bad thing, but noteworthy.

In KH it would reduce the maximum number of people you can take into a KH - currently 18 on a Baglah or Junk - so maybe you'd have to allow people to enter on War Brigs and Merchant Galleons. Although I don't see many people seriously entering with ships this big, I'd like to see it still be possible for events and such.

Pillages.. I'm not really understanding how this would affect them other than that the stock cost would be a higher cost per pirate potentially, but the same would be true in HS, Atlantis, IOs and Flotillas.

Would you add a new ship at the top end, or potentially inbetween the WF and GF? It would seem unfortunate to lose the ability to get 159 pirates on a ship, even if this so rarely happens these days, and keeping the GF as the largest ship might be a nice touch.

I'm probably missing some stuff out, but what seems like a simple fix becomes potentially a little more complicated.

ETA: I forgot to actually give me opinion after all that, I would like to see either this or skilled swabbies implemented, as long as they're balanced and don't require a fix two years later like a recent greedy update !
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[Edit 4 times, last edit by Jcmorgan6 at Dec 6, 2020 4:13:16 AM]
[Dec 6, 2020 4:02:13 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
qlauncher

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+1
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[Dec 6, 2020 4:44:00 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Colder1

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+1
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[Dec 6, 2020 7:44:02 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Blonddee

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+1
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Blonde of Emerald Ocean
[Dec 6, 2020 7:47:39 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
gsdfgdgsdnkj



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+1

I made this account just to reply to this
[Dec 6, 2020 7:57:58 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Scribone



Joined: Aug 23, 2020
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Re: Ship sizes Reply to this Post
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I had thoughts about it a while ago, and made a google doc with a few sets of possible changes.

It's mostly stuff I / a few people I talked to came up with pretty quickly in a short amount of time, but it may be worth posting and raise some discussions/thoughts from others.

I support this idea regardless of the actual population size, as even when the population was much larger, the amount of people that wanted to nav vs the amount of people that got to nav balance was already off.


Thanks for the response...

I actually like the first example in your spreadsheet, it is a very good example of what i was thinking to do... I feel the other examples are a bit too low, 40 on a WF is very low in my opinion. What i think is that numbers can be decided by the developer i am sure he can do some more detailed maths into this and get a reasonable design on each ship.
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Scrib on Emerald ocean
[Dec 6, 2020 8:42:13 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Scribone



Joined: Aug 23, 2020
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Re: Ship sizes Reply to this Post
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I've previously discussed this with Triplepat and he's proposed numbers for discussion which can be found here . I don't see it mentioned, but if this was implemented there would have to be another rebalancing of voyage types.

HS, Atlantis and Flotillas would need reduced payout, probably best done by just letting you TH less from each ship you sink. I'd suggest doing it that way because it would balance Atlantis where the pay from Citadels would not increase, but sinking the monsters would.

IOs would need rebalancing given the number of pirates you fight for each ship size would be off.

VRs would remain largely the same, with the exception that fighting "Huge" ones might be even more unattainable. So maybe it would be a good idea to reduce the numbers you fight here too, which then might require a rebalance of how much damage each cannon fired does.

CI would remain largely unaffected, except for the fact that CI might become marginally easier, given the meta is often an undermanned sloop these days. This might also throw people off trying to do a "standard" 7 man run if the sloops holds (random numbers) 5 and then cutter holds 9. Not necessarily a bad thing, but noteworthy.

In KH it would reduce the maximum number of people you can take into a KH - currently 18 on a Baglah or Junk - so maybe you'd have to allow people to enter on War Brigs and Merchant Galleons. Although I don't see many people seriously entering with ships this big, I'd like to see it still be possible for events and such.

Pillages.. I'm not really understanding how this would affect them other than that the stock cost would be a higher cost per pirate potentially, but the same would be true in HS, Atlantis, IOs and Flotillas.

Would you add a new ship at the top end, or potentially inbetween the WF and GF? It would seem unfortunate to lose the ability to get 159 pirates on a ship, even if this so rarely happens these days, and keeping the GF as the largest ship might be a nice touch.

I'm probably missing some stuff out, but what seems like a simple fix becomes potentially a little more complicated.

ETA: I forgot to actually give me opinion after all that, I would like to see either this or skilled swabbies implemented, as long as they're balanced and don't require a fix two years later like a recent greedy update !



I agree with most of what you mentioned except the decreasing the pay on SMHs part... With the recent nerf of bashing ( I dont agree with the GF bashing meta but it has been there for a while and alot of people got used to it, removing it suddenly without buffing anything else is just unreasonable imo ) i feel that pay on SMH needs to be increased if anything. Thing is, with decreasing the amount of people on each ship people would make more poe because say your average HS these days gets a 100 SC which gets divided over 45 Jobbers and each jobber makes 25K on average. Now if that 100 SC gets divided over 30 Jobbers on a xebec instead of 45, Jobbers would make around 33.33% more from the same amount of work so around 33k instead of 25k... That is a fair amount in my opinion ( Even though i personally believe SMHs should pay out alot more to jobbers but that's an issue for another time/post )
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Scrib on Emerald ocean
[Dec 6, 2020 8:50:03 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Scribone



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The only issue i see here is that WFs if decreased to 45-50, Would be too overpowered for Haunted seas backwalling since they are basically unsinkable with the current spectral spawns power.

Not sure what is the best way to avoid this, but id suggest something like changing the amount of spectral spawns on HS or just adapting it so that spectral spawn would scale with the size of ship that enters the board ( something similar to flotillas maybe ? )

Open to ideas :)
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Scrib on Emerald ocean
[Dec 6, 2020 8:54:30 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
patgangster

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Thing is, with decreasing the amount of people on each ship people would make more poe because [reason]


This was the reason jc suggested a payout nerf - I personally don't think it's needed, as "sinking stuff" in atlantis is already worse than citadels (which won't be affected by this), and HS could use the little bump.

 
Not sure what is the best way to avoid this, but id suggest something like changing the amount of spectral spawns on HS or just adapting it so that spectral spawn would scale with the size of ship that enters the board ( something similar to flotillas maybe ? )


Increasing spawns based on amount/strength of ships on the board (excluding safezone, and maybe made per-zone, so you don't get trolled by that guy taking his war frigs into zone 1) makes sense. If that happens, I suggest balancing it somewhat along these lines:

(the boat listed here is the boat you would get the same spawns on as you do now; bringing a bigger boat would get you more. Perhaps a smaller boat could get you less, maybe not.)

current Z5 atlantis: WF
current Z4 atlantis: xebec
current Z3 atlantis: wb
current Z2/Z1 atlantis: any boat

current Z3 HS: Xebec
current Z2/Z1 HS: no one actually goes here, so no idea. maybe wb / any boat.

These changes would also make "team-up" entries slightly better since you won't be sharing the regular amount of spawn with someone else, which right now makes these so bad no one wants to do them.
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TriplePat, Emerald.
[Dec 6, 2020 4:02:35 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Rick9109

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I think the simplest way (for pillaging) to achieve this is that your spawn and pay ramp should adjust to the number of swabbies you actually have, not the game assuming you always have the maximum number of swabbies.

4 people used to be the perfect number of sloop users. It only takes one sailor to make the ship move and one bilger to keep the water clear. Naver can gun, or the carper can gun and carp between battles. The game assuming with 4 people that I have 3 swabbies that i don't even need and thus sending MBs, WBs or junks at me, makes no sense.

I realize I am a bit of a broken record on this and I apologize.
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[Dec 9, 2020 7:58:45 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    rick9109    cactusrome [Link]  Go to top 
patgangster

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Yeah, I'm not sure when exactly they changed it to always "pretend" you have max swabbies, but it's had a negative impact on pillaging, I personally like my sloops with 5 players on them, but now I get +2 swabbies in might rating. Baghlahs preferred to run with 15, but now they get +3 swabbies if they'd try to do that.

Even outside of pillaging this has had its side effects, where atlantis citadels and HS graveyards always spawn at least up to the amount of swabbies you'd have had, even though that amount of swabbies aren't even allowed in those encounters. (Effect of this is commonly seen on junk citruns when someone leaves)

Not quite the point of anything in this thread, but having this fixed/adjusted on the side would be nice, too.
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TriplePat, Emerald.
[Dec 10, 2020 4:43:13 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Jonneyy

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+1, it's pretty obvious that ships sizes are not made for the current player count! Sucks if you have to get more then 10% on a ship, especially if it's a flotilla. (SMHs aswell tho)
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[Dec 10, 2020 5:01:53 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
nate3990

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I think the simplest way (for pillaging) to achieve this is that your spawn and pay ramp should adjust to the number of swabbies you actually have, not the game assuming you always have the maximum number of swabbies.

4 people used to be the perfect number of sloop users. It only takes one sailor to make the ship move and one bilger to keep the water clear. Naver can gun, or the carper can gun and carp between battles. The game assuming with 4 people that I have 3 swabbies that i don't even need and thus sending MBs, WBs or junks at me, makes no sense.

I realize I am a bit of a broken record on this and I apologize.



Does this actually happen? I have never spawned a WB on a sloop - that is crazy! I usually pillage on the osprey routes with a full sloop and slider set to very hard; I've never been unlucky enough to spawn a WB or Junk on a sloop, regardless if I have a dnavver or not - I usually get Fanchuans and Longships with 12 - 14 bots
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[Dec 10, 2020 9:27:27 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
gamerocker20



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+1 Either do this or let us rejob in battle at set intervals.
[Dec 13, 2020 4:50:44 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Joaoo99

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+1 to this post.

Makes no sense to spend more time filling a ship to HS/Atlantis than be in the event itself.
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