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ryvn21



Joined: Mar 30, 2020
Posts: 5
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It's Time to Stop Modding/Speedhacking. Reply to this Post
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Hi Everyone!

With the introduction of the new developer for Grey Havens (Welcome Crabby!) and with recent changes being made to greedy bashing and the discussion around them, I felt that now would be a good time to bring up an important issue that has been continuing to plague puzzles such as Swordfight and Rumble. For purposes of this post, I will mainly be discussing Swordfighting as it is the puzzle I enjoy the most and where this activity appears to be causing the most problems.

I have also created a video speaking on this and showing some examples. If you would prefer to watch this instead of reading the content below, please click here.

I encourage you to please listen and take into consideration everything I have to say on this topic before making any assumptions on how big of a problem this actually is for not just SFers, but EVERYONE.

Disclaimer: I do not engage in, support or condone any of the following terms of service breaking activities I will discuss below, and this is not a piece intended to show any disrespect or create any form of harassment towards Grey Havens or any of its employees. I please ask you to avoid doing so at all costs, thanks.

What is Modding/Speedhacking?


For those of you that don't know, there are issues in puzzles that allow players to play at greater speeds than what are intended by the developers. For example, a player modding in Swordfight is able to drop pieces by using the spacebar at a faster, sometimes much faster rate than what was intended by the developers.

Why is this an issue?

This is an issue as in Swordfight and Rumble, the speed at which a player plays at greatly determines whether they win or lose a game. In fact, simply being one piece ahead in the piece queue in SF against an opponent similar in skill can win you the game a lot of the time. Modders can abuse this to the point where even if you play a game perfectly and go as fast as possible, you will always be behind in pieces and will get hit with so many attacks that it becomes near impossible for you to win.

What effect has this had on Swordfighting?

Modding has had a HUGE impact on the brawl table and how people approach it.

Every person you face on the SF table may be modding. Depending on how experienced you are, how close attention you pay and how fast your opponent is playing, you may never know for certain.

You may have noticed a large uptick in people providing Swordfighting streams via Twitch over the last year. This is no pure coincidence - Naturally fast and skillful players are being 'forced' to stream games in order to avoid the harassment that comes with being labelled a modder.

Big tournaments are plagued with green accounts and even established pirates joining and cheating their way to big prizes, especially in Familiar tournaments. This is no different in wagered games, where streaming is almost a requirement now to be able to play. Many lower-ranked players are not open to the idea of wagering, playing tournaments or even playing the puzzle at all due to the prevalence of these cheaters. Players excitement for upcoming SF/Rumble fam tourneys are crushed to the ground upon the realization that they won't have a chance anyway due to these players.

Why should I care, I don't play SF?

Well, you should - as modding has had many devastating effects on the game as a whole outside of the first world problems I discussed earlier.

First and most importantly of all, the playerbase. I could not even begin to list the amount of players that have told me they are quitting or slowly drifting off the game due to their frustrations with modding. Outside of blockading, voyaging and dock-tarting, there is a large community of players which enjoy PvP puzzles such as SF and Rumble more than anything else. It's one thing getting beaten in a familiar tournament by a god-tier player who could probably still attain ultimate whilst playing blindfolded, but its another thing when that same god-tier player gets hit at 3x the speed they can attain normally without breaking the games rules and compromising all of their credibility. Modding introduces a ceiling of 'skill' unattainable by any legitimate player in the game, and it completely ruins all incentive to continue advancing as a player and trying to beat that guy you feel you've went 0-20 to, considering even they could never physically come out on top vs that green alt hitting them with a strike every single turn.

It's awfully sad how many players have lost every last PoE of their hard-earned stash they have accumulated over the time they've played the game to someone they have only realized has cheated them after the fact. It's easy to get back up and play again when they've been defeated by someone with superior skill, but incredibly insulting and frustrating when it's been done by someone who has cheated them out of all of their PoE.

This inevitably leads to dwindling player numbers, and at the very least resentment towards the game and a distrust of other players on the table.

Which leads to my second point...

RMT. RMT is one of the biggest issues facing the game and those who run it and always has been. By taking advantage of modding, even relatively low-skilled players are able to blow past the legitimate competition with ease in wagered games and tournaments, therefore being able to rake up a large amount of PoE in a short period of time, especially in SF - where the most large wagers and tournaments take place. This allows these players to sell this quickly earned PoE via illegitimate methods before they are banned, ultimately encouraging these cheaters and ban evaders to return to the game at an opportune time to wash, rinse and repeat these activities.

However, modding is not just an issue with the selling of PoE via RMT methods.

As I mentioned before, getting cheated out of PoE or items will either cause a player to quit, or build resentment towards the game. Do you think these players would be so willing to buy doubloons and support the game which has neglected fixing this issue? Unlikely. This ultimately will drive more players towards RMT methods in order to regain some of their lost PoE - damaging the game, lowering the valuable support it continues to receive from players wallets and leading to more players getting banned, yet again lowering and demoralizing the player base, and potentially leading to further people taking up the act of cheating/RMT-ing, creating a vicious cycle.

Modding is in one hand, a very similar issue to Botting, at least on the surface. However, I would argue that perhaps it is even worse, due to the problems I have just mentioned not necessarily taking hold, at least in such great effect in which they do with modding.

You may think that cheating in this fashion would yield an insta-ban. Perhaps you wonder, "surely you can just avoid playing these green players" and I wish you were right - however, there is little to no cheat detection or punishments dealt for modding and in fact, the last cheat detection for SF was almost 15 years ago. Some love and attention desperately needs to be given to YPPs potentially most popular puzzle. I'm not asking for new sword patterns, balance changes to certain swords
that have been dominant since the dawn of time (though that would be incredible) There needs to be something implemented to disconnect these players from the puzzle when they are detected as speedhacking. It cannot be as simple as allowing it to continue to happen but the player gets banned after a while or these problems will NOT be remedied. I am simply begging for a fix to this issue which at best makes SF a borderline unplayable puzzle and at worst a detriment to the game and it's community as a whole.

That's all I'd like to say on this, for now. I would greatly appreciate any input on this from the player base or from the OMs/Devs. If anyone from Grey Havens would like to reach out and learn more about this and myself and the communities ideas for preventing this, I urge you to do so in any way possible.

Thank you very much for reading,

Prolific.

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[Edit 3 times, last edit by ryvn21 at Dec 4, 2020 4:23:24 AM]
[Dec 4, 2020 3:15:39 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
patgangster

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Joined: May 26, 2006
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Re: It's Time to Stop Modding/Speedhacking. Reply to this Post
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I don't even have to actually read any of this.

+1. Modding/speedhacking is a problem to the point where a significant number of posts in threads like the "pirate awards" award "best tournament pirate" to stuff like "whoever's speedhack worked best that day".

I rarely even pvp SF myself, but stopping these cheaters would make it feel a lot better to hop on the SF tables and fight some people.
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TriplePat, Emerald.
[Dec 4, 2020 4:14:24 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Garckon

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Re: It's Time to Stop Modding/Speedhacking. Reply to this Post
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100% agree things will get better from a fix on this;

You'd hope "the fix" would be easy (I'm sure there would be some people who could also help if they reach out), but there's some hopefulness with the new Dev at least... It's been a huge problem for many years but I guess an eventual resolution is better late than never...
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Gammyx on Emerald

~Avatar by Cattrin
[Dec 4, 2020 7:58:15 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
mrtwistar

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Re: It's Time to Stop Modding/Speedhacking. Reply to this Post
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^
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http://emerald.puzzlepirates.com/yoweb/pirate.wm?target=Sonicbang
[Dec 4, 2020 8:25:44 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Fisherr5



Joined: Jun 8, 2007
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Re: It's Time to Stop Modding/Speedhacking. Reply to this Post
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Big ol' +1; Speedhacking/Modding has been a long-standing issue, it's something that should have been addressed years ago - It hurts not only the integrity of the PvP aspects of the game but overall competitiveness in any 'speed' puzzle.

As someone that has lingered on the SF tables a little too much over the years it hurts to see them in such a state that players are taking to streams to prove that they're legitimate.

- Pea
[Dec 4, 2020 8:32:42 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
superstarsam

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Re: It's Time to Stop Modding/Speedhacking. Reply to this Post
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Yes!
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Geologist - now exclusively Obsidian Emerald flavoured
[Dec 4, 2020 10:36:48 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
nate3990

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Re: It's Time to Stop Modding/Speedhacking. Reply to this Post
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Support (obviously)

I think it goes without saying that this should be one of the first priorities the new developer should work on.

There is literally no argument against wanting to stop cheating.

As someone who came back to the game recently, hearing how rampant botting and cheating is, makes me quite disappointed.
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Spinnakerr on Emerald | Natetegreat on Cerulean
Originally started on Cobalt, now playing Emerald! Returned to the game October 2020.
[Dec 4, 2020 5:02:03 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
qlauncher

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Re: It's Time to Stop Modding/Speedhacking. Reply to this Post
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@GH, fix your game. Get Crabby on it or find someone who can. +1.
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[Dec 4, 2020 7:16:36 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
ryvn21



Joined: Mar 30, 2020
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Re: It's Time to Stop Modding/Speedhacking. Reply to this Post
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Bump. More and more of these individuals return to the game every week with the express intent of cheating players out of poe to RMT their "winnings". This should not be forgotten about :)
[Dec 27, 2020 8:12:47 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
LJAmethyst

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Re: It's Time to Stop Modding/Speedhacking. Reply to this Post
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Bump. More and more of these individuals return to the game every week with the express intent of cheating players out of poe to RMT their "winnings". This should not be forgotten about :)


Ah, but we should forgive and forget! I am sure they have changed their ways! Give them a second/third/fiftieth chance!
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[Dec 27, 2020 12:11:15 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.newadvent.org/bible/jon001.htm [Link]  Go to top 
ryvn21



Joined: Mar 30, 2020
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Re: It's Time to Stop Modding/Speedhacking. Reply to this Post
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Bump. More and more of these individuals return to the game every week with the express intent of cheating players out of poe to RMT their "winnings". This should not be forgotten about :)


Ah, but we should forgive and forget! I am sure they have changed their ways! Give them a second/third/fiftieth chance!


Hi, thanks for your reply, however this post has nothing to do with that thread and I would absolutely hate to see a "fix" to this issue that involves banning players who attempt to mod, or even worse, retroactively banning past modders, as it is a band-aid fix that would do nothing but damage the game even further by reducing the already damaged SF community.

The issue OP brought up in the thread you linked in my opinion only encourages modding/RMT. I've spoken with a decent amount of these players and found out that they would not mod/RMT if they were allowed to play the game without the threat of evasion. Why would they play clean on a ban-evading account when regardless of what happens, they will get banned anyway?

However, this thread is not about that, and discussion about it should be kept to the thread you linked.
[Dec 29, 2020 7:45:52 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
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