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Gascony



Joined: Aug 19, 2011
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Question about frays against AI opponents Reply to this Post
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I was running a CI and was surprised to see one of the jobbers using a stick and bare fists in the frays. I offered to trade her better weapons. She responded that it didn't matter, that choice of sword or bludgeon made a difference only in PvP, and that battles with bots (the zombies and cultists of CI's) used a different algorithm that took no account of the player's weapon.

That seemed odd to me. I would welcome others' thoughts on the subject.
[Aug 27, 2020 4:29:42 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
wrs1864b

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Joined: Apr 10, 2006
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Re: Question about frays against AI opponents Reply to this Post
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This is a VERY old argument, and until someone who can look at the code speaks up, it will likely never be resolved.

The argument that weapons in a PvE situation goes like this: Fully simulating how the weapons work and making an AI to really play the game is WAY to complex, especially back in the early days of the game. The server would likely have to deal with hundreds of bots doing SF at a time and the developers were in a huge rush to get something out that works. Also, whatever the developers created had to work on every skill level from the weakest bots to the hardest. So, instead, the bots just make a fuzzy simulation with things like counts of blocks, maybe counts of different colors, but not much more. The harder bots just generated lager strikes, and sent the strikes quicker.

Very experienced SFers often say that weapons make no difference. The bots have been observed to send strikes with swords that could not possibly be made with the pieces that the game provides.

There are, however, some experienced SFers who claim that weapons matter.

Personally, I'm in the camp that swords don't matter.

For rumble, it is possible that the games simulation takes weapons into account much more. I never was as good at rumble to draw my own conclusion. Rumble was added to the game much latter when the servers were faster and the developers weren't as pressed to just get something that kind of works out the door.
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Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent.
[Aug 27, 2020 5:20:48 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
patgangster

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Re: Question about frays against AI opponents Reply to this Post
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Nemo states that differences in swords definitely do have an effect on NPCs here, and a player that talked to him provided a bit of an explaination here.

As for rumble, as someone who likes to often drop instas on strong NPCs (like vargas in CIs), there is a clear difference in how often he breaks out of your insta between you using good weapons (bone, ropes) compared to bad ones (fists, gaff, bottle, fish, etc), and attacks definitely show up the way they'd be sent to players (if you use a weapon with a hole in the pattern, those also show on the NPC's rumble board, for example) rather than being randomly spread out across NPC boards as they are in SF.

Is it important to use good weapons? When teaming properly and mixing attacks with your teammate, no, not really. When fray numbers get smaller or if you enjoy going for solo kills, I'd say the value of having a good weapon goes up though.
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TriplePat, Emerald.
[Aug 28, 2020 2:06:36 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
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