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Gascony



Joined: Aug 19, 2011
Posts: 43
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Patching scoring question Reply to this Post
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What is the role of time in patching scoring? Obviously you want to complete your patch before the timer runs out and the wind gusts. Beyond that, I'm uncertain on two points.

1. For a given patch, is scoring just a matter of how many pieces and grommets you use? If so, then completing the patch quickly scores no more than completing an identical patch just in the nick of time. If not, then the patch scores better if done in less time. On this alternative, it would also make sense that a slightly inferior patch (fewer pieces used) could nevertheless score higher than a more comprehensive patch that took a lot longer.

2. Regardless of how an individual patch is scored, time might affect the session rating (and the player's rank). If each completed patch yields a certain number of points, with the session score being based on the total points achieved, then completing boards quickly is advantageous because you get more points in before reaching the next LP or cade break or whatever. Alternatively, if the session score is based on the average score for each of the boards, then this wouldn't be a factor. You would just try to get the highest possible score on each board, taking into account whatever the answer to the first question is.
[May 20, 2020 3:12:13 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Darkings



Joined: Jun 27, 2007
Posts: 28
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Re: Patching scoring question Reply to this Post
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Hi, don't take this reply as the 'right way' I do not know how patching score works, but I can give a general idea on how I take it, feel free to refuse it.

1. grommets are used to boost the 'main' score it goes from Patchy work to Flawless masterpiece, if you wanna test it just use the stars as reference.*
I'm assuming you are just interested on how to reach incredible, so I won't go into detail but rather compare it with bilge.

As common knowledge bilge is heavily botted and so its widely known how the scores works, the one that achieves the highest score with less moves gets the inc, where vegas outshines bingos by far.

So if you take each board of patching as a bilge move, your best move would be to achieve Flawless masterpiece every single board vs small sew goods in a bunch of boards.
If you trade the gourmet for a straight line it keeps the board.


2.
Now does time influence the score ? Nope

Does the time affect the session score? Yeap.



Session score is the number that is compared with the ultimate list, so more FM in a short period of time the better.



*FM fills a set number of stars this number increases accordingly to the number of gourmets
[May 20, 2020 5:04:05 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Freethefrail



Joined: Mar 30, 2020
Posts: 9
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Re: Patching scoring question Reply to this Post
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Here's how I interpret patching scoring:

Each patch board (in isolation) is scored on time taken, pieces used, and the number of grommets used. I'll estimate the weighting for each factor:

1) Time - I think this is the most important factor for a patch because you can consistently set off small patches very quickly and get a decent score (high excellents).
2) Grommets - I don't really have a definitive answer for putting this at #2, but I mostly think it's here because setting off any patches without grommets doesn't score well at all.
3) Pieces used - A fairly signficant boost is added if you're scoring "Master Patcher" or above. Anything below I think is inconsequential for your score.

Your overall session score is then based on the average of all the patch boards you completed in your session.

Edit: Actually my interpretation above is wrong. Time can't be a factor for a single patch because you can reset the timer by placing a grommet on the spool. So grommets and piece completion are the only factors for a single patch in isolation.

As to how time then factors into it... I'm not sure. Maybe it's some kind of rolling window of X minutes, and the total score you accumulate in that period by sending up multiple patches.
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Suspirium on Emerald
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Freethefrail at May 24, 2020 3:46:45 PM]
[May 21, 2020 11:55:42 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Gascony



Joined: Aug 19, 2011
Posts: 43
Status: Offline

Some preliminary research Reply to this Post
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I can contribute some research toward answering my own question. I created two new pirates on Emerald and set them each to work patching. I alternated sessions to try to control for the effect of improvement in my ability resulting from practice. Their approaches:

1. One pirate focused on grommets and speed. The basic strategy was to use all or almost all the grommets, and, within that constraint, to complete the board as quickly as possible. This pirate usually didn't take any extra time to use more pieces, although he did grab a few that were right there and could be gotten quickly, so that completing the board took only slightly longer than the necessary minimum. Conversely, he sometimes left one grommet unused, in the interest of speed.

2. The other pirate focused on using as many pieces as possible. When he couldn't get a Flawless Masterpiece, he generally preferred leaving non-grommet pieces unused, although bad planning occasionally meant that a grommet was unused. (As the wind was about to gust, I could see, too late, how I could have reconfigured the board to use the same number of pieces while using all the grommets instead of all but one.)

The main flaw in the research was that my own style, for years, has been much closer to #1 (grommets and speed), so I'm better at it. Pirate #2 (full board) sometimes didn't complete the board before the wind gusted. I might decide to continue, to see if I get a different result once I can play the full-board style better with more experience.

I played until each pirate reached the experience level of Solid. At that point, the ocean-wide rankings were: Pirate #1 (grommets and speed), Master; pirate #2 (full board), Distinguished.

I didn't keep track of stars, individual board results, or individual DR's. My subjective impression was that pirate #2 got better assessments on individual boards. He had a few Flawless Masterpieces while pirate #1 had none. Pirate #2 was also much more likely to get Master Patcher than was pirate #1. Nevertheless, pirate #2's ranking was two notches lower.

My guesses: The displayed result on each individual board (Patchy Work through Flawless Masterpiece) depends on pieces used, with grommets scoring more, and does not depend in any way on time taken. Nevertheless, the pirate's ranking does depend on time. One possibility is that there's a per-board rating that takes account of the displayed result (Master Patcher, etc.) but also takes account of time used. The other possibility is that each board scores points based solely on the displayed result, with the session result and the pirate's ranking depending on how many points are scored in a given time. Either way, faster is better.

My main interest was not in getting Increds or reaching Ultimate ranking. My guess is that, for a Legendary pirate trying to reach Ultimate, the trade-off between speed and a full board becomes less important, because you have to excel at both aspects. I'm more curious about how someone who's below the GM level can move up a notch or two.

With the major caveat that I'm not the best person to test the full-board approach, my conclusion is consistent with the observations by Darkings and Freethefrail. Time is important. If you can't consistently get high results (Flawless Masterpiece or Master Patcher) quickly, you probably do better to settle for a less laudatory message if you can complete such a board quickly.

I don't know how fast "quickly" is. Somebody in in-game chat stated a goal of completing the board before half the time has elapsed. In my experiment, pirate #1 was sometimes much faster than that and sometimes much slower, depending on how long it took to grab all or almost all the grommets.

Patching when maneuvers are an issue would raise different considerations. For example, in a CI, where flower tokens are important, you might be presented with a board that had multiple tokens but no flowers. In that circumstance, one approach would be to just complete the board as quickly as possible, not even worrying about grommets, so as to move on to the next board and hope to get some flowers. This might entail a small sacrifice to your own ranking for the good of the ship. Alternatively, you might still try your best to do well on that board, if a good result will influence the probability of seeing flowers on the next board(s). I have no idea what factors influence the appearance of tokens.
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[Edit 3 times, last edit by Gascony at May 27, 2020 6:20:21 AM]
[May 27, 2020 5:55:18 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
patgangster

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Joined: May 26, 2006
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Re: Some preliminary research Reply to this Post
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I don't know how fast "quickly" is. Somebody in in-game chat stated a goal of completing the board before half the time has elapsed. In my experiment, pirate #1 was sometimes much faster than that and sometimes much slower, depending on how long it took to grab all or almost all the grommets.

The "half the time" guideline is generally the time it takes for an ultimate patcher to complete a "master patcher" board. When it comes to the higher ranks of patching, filling out as much of the board as possible (or at least, enough for the board to be a master patcher) is the best scoring strategy.

 
My guesses: The displayed result on each individual board (Patchy Work through Flawless Masterpiece) depends on pieces used, with grommets scoring more, and does not depend in any way on time taken.

This is correct. Assuming a maximum size board:
10 or less pieces used = patchy work
between 10 and roughly half the board: sew good
roughly halfway: sew good
6 or less pieces remaining: master patcher (7 if there are no blockers)
all of the board: flawless masterpiece

Grommets are score bonuses. You should always aim to include as many of them as you can.

 
The other possibility is that each board scores points based solely on the displayed result, with the session result and the pirate's ranking depending on how many points are scored in a given time. Either way, faster is better.

This "other possibility" is how it works.
The way all duty puzzles work is that your current score (reflected in the indicator) is based on the amount of points you scored in the last 3 minutes, and then the session score (when you abandon/rank changes) is the average of what your 'current score' has been for the session.

This means that "faster is better" does indeed apply. Other puzzles like bilging have score penalties for moves used to force you to slow down and make efficient play better than fast play, but patching does not have these.
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TriplePat, Emerald.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by patgangster at May 27, 2020 8:00:56 AM]
[May 27, 2020 6:34:53 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Jcmorgan6

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Joined: Feb 5, 2015
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Re: Some preliminary research Reply to this Post
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I have no idea what factors influence the appearance of tokens.


The requirements for tokens in any puzzle:
Start with at least 3 stars , this is usually proficient or distinguished
Have at least a good indicator

In patching tokens then have a 20% chance* to spawn in any acceptable place on the board. It follows from this that you spawn less tokens on a nine star board than six/seven/eight star boards because the additional blockers "block" available token spawn locations, so you have less chances for tokens to spawn.

*In 4 token environments, I never counted how the 5th token in CI affects it
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Jjc & Jice on Emerald
CI booty division stats
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by Jcmorgan6 at May 27, 2020 8:41:38 AM]
[May 27, 2020 8:11:13 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Darkings



Joined: Jun 27, 2007
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Re: Some preliminary research Reply to this Post
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I'm more curious about how someone who's below the GM level can move up a notch or two.


I'm assuming you are Gascony from Emerald, one problem is that you have sublime so it will take some time so see if you are improving or not.
The only problem with having sublime is that it will take some time to update your average score, I don't want to go into detail on this topic so I will try to make it simple:
Lets assume standing = average (si), where
si = score in i session
I do not know what's the limit for i, but I assume its a large number.

As of now your average is master so to get to renowned you have to do a bunch of sessions above master performance to update your average.



-So my main advice would be to practice on a new account to see if you are improving or not.

If you are not aiming for inc then your best option would be to improve your speed , before attempting flawless masterpieces.



Patch board has 7 columns


-Aim for Sew Good in less than 3 columns with all the gourmets, then try to do it close to the 2 columns mark


You have to assure that you do play 3 minutes, you can do a mission and move the sailors, or do a swabbie ship transport if you want privacy (don't forget to dismiss the sailors).


-Just play 3 minutes and dismiss (take into account league stops) and restart the puzzle, since you are aiming for GM there's no huge harm in doing bad scores on your first sessions.
You can use that master account you made for testing, if you want to skip the initial ramp.



-Mouse vs keyboard, this depends on your clicking abilities (and mouse), but using keys to rotate for some people is way faster than clicking 3 times (if you miss place a piece) . The initial shift from mouse to keyboard is hard, but it can improve your speed if you have a slow index finger.


-Youtube has a bunch of speed patchers showcased, I don't recall any in particular, but try to search for 2 rows of tokens since they prioritize speed. Just so you have an idea.

Have fun
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Darkings at May 27, 2020 11:06:43 AM]
[May 27, 2020 10:59:59 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
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