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bahaakbu

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Make labor great again! (Even though it never was) Reply to this Post
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Ahoy blue collar friends and me fellow shopkeepers!

Do you like honest work, just like I do? Attacking and pillaging hard working merchants is not your thing? Well head down to a stall and start work- Oh wait you ran out of labor hours, shoo shoo, no pay for you.

Crafting puzzles are the only puzzle you're punished for actually working in the game currently. You are incentivized to just play every 10 days and let your pirate make money on its own. There's nothing stopping pillagers to do it non-stop. Any proper CI run takes 2 hours per entry. But you can roughly do labor for an hour or so, and then you use up your hours and not paid for your passive labor. That is quite unreasonable.

And on top of that, this system again enables some people to get some "alts" to do their work, creating an unfair advantage for themselves. This leads to rich to get richer and richer by day and people that do honest practice go for the scrapings. (I'm not that comfortable with people having their alts open more stalls for them, even further monopolizing the market either. It just seems... Wrong.)

For instance, there's no way for me to compete with stalls that provide potions, since they're labor heavy. For a big whisk potion, since they set their labor to 1/1/1, whereas I have to say, 80/90/100 (to get employees in this economy), My prices will be instantly 1.3k more than theirs, at least.

-----------

There could be few ways to fix this issue.

1. Make active labor not use hours from your badge. (This again would hit the problem where your shop hits the labor cap, providing no benefit against people with alts.) Of course this could be fixed by active labor not hitting the shop cap, but that doesn't seem very justifiable. Maybe draw from different pools, active being bigger and passive being smaller?

2. Simply buff active labor and debuff passive with wage adjustments for both. Say, passive creates 1 units, whereas active creates 10. So passive should be paid 10 and active 100, for instance. With the exception of the ones without the puzzles, of course.

-----------
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[Oct 5, 2017 1:50:21 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Filthyjake

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Re: Make labor great again! (Even though it never was) Reply to this Post
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I support a working labor badge, that lets you have unlimited hours but no off-line labor. Sadly people will bott so not sure, but we should be able to get paid to SW or Weave all day the same as if we sailed or patched...
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Filthyjake all oceans (Obsidian Primary)
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[Oct 5, 2017 2:20:03 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Nek0jin

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Re: Make labor great again! (Even though it never was) Reply to this Post
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I generally support both of those suggestions, but for crying out loud, at least allow me to see how much work I have available!

This morning, I went into an Alchemical Stall that had several orders and good pay. I put in a reasonably good run, only to be told that I'd done a great practice round. *facepalm*

Why didn't I have any Labor Hours available? I don't know! It wasn't that the shop was over-worked; it wasn't that there weren't any orders. It didn't give a real reason at all.
[Oct 5, 2017 2:44:46 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
bahaakbu

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Re: Make labor great again! (Even though it never was) Reply to this Post
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The problem for that would be the ones with the puzzle, I'm guessing. But this hour capped system could be kept for ones that don't have a puzzle yet.

Removing the offline labor... Hmm... Well, okay, that's fair. That would cut all the alts from the system, making it reliant on people actually doing the bloody puzzles.

Using bots will always be a thing, and people will always try to use them, but nothing is exactly preventing them from say, sailing nonstop in a cit run either. As long as the player is around, they'll probably find a way to work that.

The unlimited puzzle might also require the stall labor cap rework though. I wouldn't be able work in my stall for as long as I desire, and would have to move on to other shops. But I'm not sure how that'll work in regards of competition between stalls. Well, maybe it could be helped a bit be either increasing the cap, or making it a daily cap, so I can for instance work on it when I come home from work.

Then again, once you get enough shops, you could just move to the next one, and even that should provide hours of work.
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[Oct 5, 2017 3:02:14 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Filthyjake

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Re: Make labor great again! (Even though it never was) Reply to this Post
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The problem for that would be the ones with the puzzle, I'm guessing. But this hour capped system could be kept for ones that don't have a puzzle yet.
I am amusing you mean with out a puzzle. The Badge I am talking about would only allow you to puzzle for production, just like an Officer badge allows you to nav a ship. It wouldn't do anything for for puzzle-less labor.

 
Removing the offline labor... Hmm... Well, okay, that's fair. That would cut all the alts from the system, making it reliant on people actually doing the bloody puzzles.
I am suggesting an alternative badge not a new style of labor system. The other badges would still exist. One that you can use when you want as much as you want. it appeals to those who like to grind labor puzzles as well as people who just like to be able to do labor for tournaments.

 
Using bots will always be a thing, and people will always try to use them, but nothing is exactly preventing them from say, sailing nonstop in a cit run either. As long as the player is around, they'll probably find a way to work that.
Yes but being able to pull incred distilling unlimited for a day would pay and create temptation, having to move the bot every so often to a new shop, until full. This would be my biggest downside to an unlimited hours labor badge.

 
The unlimited puzzle might also require the stall labor cap rework though. I wouldn't be able work in my stall for as long as I desire, and would have to move on to other shops. But I'm not sure how that'll work in regards of competition between stalls. Well, maybe it could be helped a bit be either increasing the cap, or making it a daily cap, so I can for instance work on it when I come home from work.
I don't think the stall caps should change, if you want to grind 24 hours every hour for your ship yard you could max it, with this one pirates and special badge.

 
Then again, once you get enough shops, you could just move to the next one, and even that should provide hours of work.
I would hope this would create a desire to help others with what your good at. For example if I can pull Expert Labor in Shipwright, and you Distill we could work together with out hurting our own shops. As it is set now with a cap I hate to give away my expert labor as I severely lack basic labor.
----------------------------------------
Filthyjake all oceans (Obsidian Primary)
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[Oct 5, 2017 4:48:07 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Kyogres

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Re: Make labor great again! (Even though it never was) Reply to this Post
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Removing passive labour isnt a wise thing todo. Most of the eco is drven by passive labour. At least 50-70% I guess. Removing this will not encourage people to do their 24 Hours of labour (24 Puzzles) each day. In fact most peoply dislike the crafting puzzles since they never yield same as a pilly. Getting money from work was never intended to provide you a living in PP. It was a compensation for having a labour badge.

So my proposial is:

award puzzling with 2 hours of labour no matter if the shop's throughput can use it right now or not. If shop has reached his throughput for this hour the work is awarded (to the shop) in the next hour. This way active labour could be provided in advance. In addition active labour (stored) should be used before passive labour.
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[Oct 6, 2017 1:37:08 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
bahaakbu

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Re: Make labor great again! (Even though it never was) Reply to this Post
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In fact most peoply dislike the crafting puzzles since they never yield same as a pilly. Getting money from work was never intended to provide you a living in PP. It was a compensation for having a labour badge.


This is something we have done, since we set the prices for our shops. And this is because, well, everyone could provide labor, if only they play once every 10 days. Passive nature of the process creates no incentive for shop owners to pay for their laborers hefty sums, because playing once in 10 days really isn't much of a work/challenge.

Also, compensation for having a labor badge? Oh gods have blessed us! How about we compare that to compensation for having a officer badge, or bravery badge? It doesn't really compare.

And the fact that economy is driven by passive labor is right, but that's because that's how the labor badge works. It's a vicious cycle. You introduce active labor, and it'll force shop owners to have people actually working and people working in shops.

I'm just bitter that a huge chunk of game is just walled off and disincentivized to play. There could be player base out there that just like the crafting puzzles.
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[Oct 6, 2017 2:15:45 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Kyogres

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Re: Make labor great again! (Even though it never was) Reply to this Post
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This is something we have done, since we set the prices for our shops. And this is because, well, everyone could provide labor, if only they play once every 10 days. Passive nature of the process creates no incentive for shop owners to pay for their laborers hefty sums, because playing once in 10 days really isn't much of a work/challenge.



You are saying that as if we would have enough labor... If you want I can give you a list of at least 20 shops still looking for workers. Without this passive system the whole eco collapses.


 


Also, compensation for having a labor badge? Oh gods have blessed us! How about we compare that to compensation for having a officer badge, or bravery badge? It doesn't really compare.


Same goes for polar Badge. Its is not intended that you make huge gains of both of these. And don't start arguing about poker since this also was never intended to yield larger sums of money...

 

And the fact that economy is driven by passive labor is right, but that's because that's how the labor badge works. It's a vicious cycle. You introduce active labor, and it'll force shop owners to have people actually working and people working in shops.



So you basically saying less workers will increase the pay for each worker?

True in the first run. But in the counterweight prices will go up to compensate those wages and will make most items not affordable anymore. Some items in this game have profit margins of less then 10 poe.

Besides that forcing people todo things is terrible way todo stuff. Because what you are basically saying is:

"I would work my 24 hours of Labor each day and everyone should be forced todo the same."
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[Oct 6, 2017 3:06:33 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
bahaakbu

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Re: Make labor great again! (Even though it never was) Reply to this Post
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You are saying that as if we would have enough labor... If you want I can give you a list of at least 20 shops still looking for workers. Without this passive system the whole eco collapses.


Well, yes, that is because they're giving low wages to their laborers. So people obviously don't want to work there, and it's the same reason why people don't get labor badges, because it's simply not worth it.



 

Same goes for polar Badge. Its is not intended that you make huge gains of both of these. And don't start arguing about poker since this also was never intended to yield larger sums of money...


I'm not for high yields by poker. Also, I'd like to point out that we're talking about millions on one side in maybe one game and, uhh, in the current economy, about 163k per month profits, for a deluxe badge. This is fine, I'm all for this. What I'm suggesting to curb is the alts doing the labor. So there's a level playing field for all.


 

So you basically saying less workers will increase the pay for each worker?

True in the first run. But in the counterweight prices will go up to compensate those wages and will make most items not affordable anymore. Some items in this game have profit margins of less then 10 poe.
"


Excuse me while I check my spreadsheet. Nope, doesn't seem like it.

It's not gonna up up and away. It's gonna stabilize at some point. A lot of shop owners are greedy with their profit margins anyway, keep it a nice %5-%10 and it'll be fine.

 

Besides that forcing people todo things is terrible way todo stuff. Because what you are basically saying is:

"I would work my 24 hours of Labor each day and everyone should be forced todo the same."


Well, it's a game. You get rewards for doing stuff. People getting rewards for not doing the thing doesn't really make much of sense. If I go off for a voyage and not do any puzzles, that's called lazing. Am I being forced to do the puzzle? Not really, I just could not do the voyage. Because some people obviously will.

Besides, I don't exactly want to passive labor all together, I'm just saying there should be a incentive for doing active labor and not a punishment. Make active labor more rewarding for players. Although I don't think removing passive labor would really hurt the economy that much. It'll create a new class of pirates and make for some interesting dynamics, rather than the one we're having right now.
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[Oct 6, 2017 3:54:04 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Kyogres

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Re: Make labor great again! (Even though it never was) Reply to this Post
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Well, yes, that is because they're giving low wages to their laborers. So people obviously don't want to work there, and it's the same reason why people don't get labor badges, because it's simply not worth it.


Wrong... current wages are way above 20 poe per basic hour

From Wiki: Minimum wage to break even is:
https://yppedia.puzzlepirates.com/Labor#Getting_value_out_of_a_labor_badge

x /144 where x is price of 1 Dubloon:
Even if Dubloons would cost 4 000 this would be:

4000/144 = 27.777777....

So for exaple working in my IM giving you 50 per basic labor yealds you:

50*144 = 7200 which is close to one labour badge profit every 30 days.
And thast only for basic labor... (and the over the top DUB price)


 

Excuse me while I check my spreadsheet. Nope, doesn't seem like it.

It's not gonna up up and away. It's gonna stabilize at some point. A lot of shop owners are greedy with their profit margins anyway, keep it a nice %5-%10 and it'll be fine.


You forget the time a shop consumes to work... I dont want to run shops wich only yield 5%. And i want to see the spreadsheet where you yield more than 10 poe for a small CB. (right now)

 

Well, it's a game. You get rewards for doing stuff. People getting rewards for not doing the thing doesn't really make much of sense. If I go off for a voyage and not do any puzzles, that's called lazing. Am I being forced to do the puzzle? Not really, I just could not do the voyage. Because some people obviously will.

Besides, I don't exactly want to passive labor all together, I'm just saying there should be a incentive for doing active labor and not a punishment. Make active labor more rewarding for players. Although I don't think removing passive labor would really hurt the economy that much. It'll create a new class of pirates and make for some interesting dynamics, rather than the one we're having right now.


Im afraid your on a very small group of players there. I work 8 hours a day and when I get hom I dont want to do 24 puzzles head start just to get my online work done.
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Emerald - Kallar
[Oct 6, 2017 4:16:39 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
bahaakbu

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Re: Make labor great again! (Even though it never was) Reply to this Post
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Wrong... current wages are way above 20 poe per basic hour

From Wiki: Minimum wage to break even is:
https://yppedia.puzzlepirates.com/Labor#Getting_value_out_of_a_labor_badge

x /144 where x is price of 1 Dubloon:
Even if Dubloons would cost 4 000 this would be:

4000/144 = 27.777777....

So for exaple working in my IM giving you 50 per basic labor yealds you:

50*144 = 7200 which is close to one labour badge profit every 30 days.
And thast only for basic labor... (and the over the top DUB price)

Current value of basic labor is about 80 mark though. I'm not saying it's not profitable, it's quite profitable right now to get a labor badge. And that's good. I'm just saying there should be more work attached to it.

 
You forget the time a shop consumes to work... I dont want to run shops wich only yield 5%.

Some people will(me). Also, usually, since it's a percentage based profit, any cheap item will gather get you little profit. So obviously there won't be much profit in making cannonballs. It's gonna be just staple food for your shop to stay alive, while you make proper profit off swords, for instance.

 
Im afraid your on a very small group of players there. I work 8 hours a day and when I get hom I dont want to do 24 puzzles head start just to get my online work done.

Well, it's not work, it's a game. And it's all arbitrary numbers, all meaningless. Also, the idea is that there'll be other people that will. Also, you go on a pillage and do puzzles along the way and I don't see the difference there.
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[Oct 6, 2017 5:01:58 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Onelegstan



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Re: Make labor great again! (Even though it never was) Reply to this Post
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I feel the people saying that passive labour / alts ruin the game don't seem to understand how the economy works.

In the recent weeks since the game was released on steam, prices of everything have gone up massively. Way above the cost of producing them, even while paying for labour. There is never any instant swords, furniture, bludgeons etc. Cheap ships have a month + wait time.
If you were to get rid of passive labour and alts then the supply of all the comods and ships would drop even further. Prices would rise even higher and then pillying would not be worth while (when you pay 60+ for small cballs).
OP was complaining people use alts for cheaper labour, well why don't you do just the same? Also, if you are hoping to get rich making big whisking potions then i think you're going down the wrong path as a shopkeeper.

The easiest solution to make alts not a plausible option would be to allow deluxe labour badges to be stacked on one pirate. This would allow as much labour as is required and drive down all prices until the point where pay at shops = cost of dubs.
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[Oct 6, 2017 5:14:25 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Kyogres

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Current value of basic labor is about 80 mark though. I'm not saying it's not profitable, it's quite profitable right now to get a labor badge. And that's good. I'm just saying there should be more work attached to it.


you littereally said that ^^

 

Some people will(me). Also, usually, since it's a percentage based profit, any cheap item will gather get you little profit. So obviously there won't be much profit in making cannonballs. It's gonna be just staple food for your shop to stay alive, while you make proper profit off swords, for instance.

Its not a percentage based profit. Thats not how shoppes work in YPP. You have to sell 300+ small CBS to break even. And with increased costs those items will not even make any profit. Its not % based its hard numbers.


 

Well, it's not work, it's a game. And it's all arbitrary numbers, all meaningless. Also, the idea is that there'll be other people that will. Also, you go on a pillage and do puzzles along the way and I don't see the difference there.


A) Other people dont fill your 24 Work hours
B) The difference is people want to pillage and dont want to do craftings
C) In short term a huge amount of current workers will stop working if they have no passive labor thus leaving nobody else working for you.

I would guess from 100 workers 60 will quit doing crafting puzzles if theres no passive labor. Becasue they dont want to invest the time todo those puzzles. Which will then destroy our eco. Which will then destroy the ocean. And if you have played YPP for a while you know this is the first indication of a dying ocean. Item prices go up. Number of Workers go down. Happened on most of the Old Oceans. Becasue if you cant even afford a sloop then why continue playing?
----------------------------------------
Opal - Merunes
Obsidian - Kallar
Emerald - Kallar
----------------------------------------
[Edit 2 times, last edit by Kyogres at Oct 6, 2017 5:19:24 AM]
[Oct 6, 2017 5:16:20 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
bahaakbu

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Re: Make labor great again! (Even though it never was) Reply to this Post
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I feel the people saying that passive labour / alts ruin the game don't seem to understand how the economy works.

In the recent weeks since the game was released on steam, prices of everything have gone up massively. Way above the cost of producing them, even while paying for labour. There is never any instant swords, furniture, bludgeons etc. Cheap ships have a month + wait time.
If you were to get rid of passive labour and alts then the supply of all the comods and ships would drop even further. Prices would rise even higher and then pillying would not be worth while (when you pay 60+ for small cballs).
OP was complaining people use alts for cheaper labour, well why don't you do just the same? Also, if you are hoping to get rich making big whisking potions then i think you're going down the wrong path as a shopkeeper.

The easiest solution to make alts not a plausible option would be to allow deluxe labour badges to be stacked on one pirate. This would allow as much labour as is required and drive down all prices until the point where pay at shops = cost of dubs.


I didn't say it was ruining the economy though. I just said it creates an unfair advantage, that is all. I can sure compete with their prices and still make quite the profit. I know how to pick my fights, if I can't compete with other people's prices, I focus on the items that I can. Also, I have no intention of being filthy rich on meaningless numbers. I just want it to be a more engaging experience.

And I'm not saying rid of all the passive labor. I'm just saying active labor should be worth more. If say, 1 hour of active labor made equivalent progress in the production of items as 5 hours of passive(these numbers should be balanced, I'm just balling here)(it also shouldn't have the same cap as the passive labor for this to work, obviously), it wouldn't make things take longer, if anything, it'll make things produce way faster. Creating a more fluid economy and more people actually doing jobs.

On the subject of cannonballs, it would never hit the 60 per small cannon ball. Even with my high labor costs, I can sell it 30-40 per and make a profit.

I have no idea why you're trying to pull the wages down to badge price levels. I understand you're trying to make more profit as a shop owner, but don't you find changing your account, logging into your alts, doing the job, rinse and repeat to be duller than a foil?
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[Oct 6, 2017 5:26:17 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
bahaakbu

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Re: Make labor great again! (Even though it never was) Reply to this Post
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Current value of basic labor is about 80 mark though. I'm not saying it's not profitable, it's quite profitable right now to get a labor badge. And that's good. I'm just saying there should be more work attached to it.

you littereally said that ^^

Y-yes?

 
 

Some people will(me). Also, usually, since it's a percentage based profit, any cheap item will gather get you little profit. So obviously there won't be much profit in making cannonballs. It's gonna be just staple food for your shop to stay alive, while you make proper profit off swords, for instance.
Its not a percentage based profit. Thats not how shoppes work in YPP. You have to sell 300+ small CBS to break even. And with increased costs those items will not even make any profit. Its not % based its hard numbers.


No, you yourself can set it to be a percentage based price. Setting the /buy and /cost accordingly. +tax. If you're buying madder for 300, set cost to 330, and you're making 30 profit per minus tax.

 
 

Well, it's not work, it's a game. And it's all arbitrary numbers, all meaningless. Also, the idea is that there'll be other people that will. Also, you go on a pillage and do puzzles along the way and I don't see the difference there.


A) Other people dont fill your 24 Work hours
B) The difference is people want to pillage and dont want to do craftings
C) In short term a huge amount of current workers will stop working if they have no passive labor thus leaving nobody else working for you.

I would guess from 100 workers 60 will quit doing crafting puzzles if theres no passive labor. Becasue they dont want to invest the time todo those puzzles. Which will then destroy our eco. Which will then destroy the ocean. And if you have played YPP for a while you know this is the first indication of a dying ocean. Item prices go up. Number of Workers go down. Happened on most of the Old Oceans. Becasue if you cant even afford a sloop then why continue playing?

Okay, I'm trying to say is, make active labor get more work done. Fine, hell, let 90 out of 100 leave. If you make active labor go towards 10 times more progress, it wouldn't change a thing for the item prices.
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[Oct 6, 2017 5:31:30 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Onelegstan



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I have no idea why you're trying to pull the wages down to badge price levels. I understand you're trying to make more profit as a shop owner, but don't you find changing your account, logging into your alts, doing the job, rinse and repeat to be duller than a foil?


if you find it that boring that you cba to do it. Dont make a post on the forums complaining about the fact other people do it...
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[Oct 6, 2017 5:33:08 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
bahaakbu

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I have no idea why you're trying to pull the wages down to badge price levels. I understand you're trying to make more profit as a shop owner, but don't you find changing your account, logging into your alts, doing the job, rinse and repeat to be duller than a foil?


if you find it that boring that you cba to do it. Dont make a post on the forums complaining about the fact other people do it...


Yeah, I don't. Also, I can do whatever I damn please within the rules of the forums. I guess have fun with your alt fiddlin', since that is within the rules of the game as well.

I just hope to see a more interesting shop keeping/labor experience, that is all.
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[Oct 6, 2017 5:38:49 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Kyogres

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No, you yourself can set it to be a percentage based price. Setting the /buy and /cost accordingly. +tax. If you're buying madder for 300, set cost to 330, and you're making 30 profit per minus tax.


30 is a natural number not a %.

 

Okay, I'm trying to say is, make active labor get more work done. Fine, hell, let 90 out of 100 leave. If you make active labor go towards 10 times more progress, it wouldn't change a thing for the item prices.


If you make active labor yield 5 instead of 2 hours per puzzle its the same as doing passive labor. Because you activly doing 1 puzzle for 1 hour and get 4 bonus PASSIVE hours awarded aswell...
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[Oct 6, 2017 5:39:32 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
bahaakbu

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No, you yourself can set it to be a percentage based price. Setting the /buy and /cost accordingly. +tax. If you're buying madder for 300, set cost to 330, and you're making 30 profit per minus tax.


30 is a natural number not a %.

10% of 300 is 30. Thus, 330. You buy at 300, cost it 330. 10%.

 
 

Okay, I'm trying to say is, make active labor get more work done. Fine, hell, let 90 out of 100 leave. If you make active labor go towards 10 times more progress, it wouldn't change a thing for the item prices.


If you make active labor yield 5 instead of 2 hours per puzzle its the same as doing passive labor. Because you activly doing 1 puzzle for 1 hour and get 4 bonus PASSIVE hours awarded aswell...

Okay, that's something I didn't know. Fair enough. I'm just balling the numbers. I don't know the exact numbers. Then make it yield 10. This is something for Grey Havens to decide. I'm just putting out suggestions.
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[Oct 6, 2017 5:46:54 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Kyogres

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Okay, that's something I didn't know. Fair enough. I'm just balling the numbers. I don't know the exact numbers. Then make it yield 10. This is something for Grey Havens to decide. I'm just putting out suggestions.


Nah right now everytime you puzzle you do 2 hours of work if the shop is able to use it. If you increase that number (is what you suggest) your not doing more puzzles you are doing less becasue you basicaly get more work done for playing less puzzles.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Kyogres at Oct 6, 2017 5:58:12 AM]
[Oct 6, 2017 5:49:56 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
bahaakbu

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Okay, that's something I didn't know. Fair enough. I'm just balling the numbers. I don't know the exact numbers. Then make it yield 10. This is something for Grey Havens to decide. I'm just putting out suggestions.


Nah right now everytime you puzzle you do 2 hours of work if the shop is able to use it. If you increase that number (is what you suggest) your not doing more puzzles you are doing less becasue you basicaly get more work dont for playing less puzzles.


Well, this is related to the shop cap though. The system would have to be adjusted accordingly. And obviously the same adjustment should make the upgraded shops worth something.

Also can't find that 1 hour of active labor rewards 4 hour of passive anywhere in the wiki, could you link me to that?
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[Oct 6, 2017 5:58:39 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
patgangster

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Not sure where you're getting 4 from - but completing a live puzzle session puts out two labor hours.
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Sagacious

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Not sure where you're getting 4 from - but completing a live puzzle session puts out two labor hours.

Yes and in addition, takes 2 hours away from your advanced labor. Every pirate starts with 24/72 hours of advanced labor a day. Completing a puzzle session will provide 2 hours direct to the stall you puzzle at while taking away 2 advanced hours, reducing the offline labour you can give over the following 24 actual hours.

So doing a session takes away offline hours from an advanced amount, rather than adding anything.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Sagacious at Oct 6, 2017 9:29:37 AM]
[Oct 6, 2017 9:27:55 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
zapadapa

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Make foraging separate from other labour!

While I like to forage, I hate the way it uses up my labour hours, leaving none left for me to do other craft puzzles.
And don't tell me to "just practice". I would like to earn at least some measly poe for my efforts.

The other thing I don't like is when you complete a craft session and you get the message "The shop did not have sufficient funds to pay for it" (or words to that effect). Could it tell you that before you start?

I like the idea of active labour being paid more than passive labour.
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[Oct 6, 2017 2:38:30 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Scarpath

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It may be worth it(Relatively speaking) over the course of a month to use a labor badge, but compared to a pillage where you can earn that entire amount in 3 hours easy? Labor isn't worth it. Even if you play the puzzle for forever, you aren't going to even come close to the same profit that you would get if you went out on a ship.

Yes, some of your profit comes from owning a stall yourself, but just like not everyone owns a ship, not everyone owns a stall. Labor should pay the worker as much as a pillage does, and perhaps even take as much work, if you want it to be considered a real part of the game. Otherwise, it will never be more then that thing you have to do every ten days to keep your stall running.

There is no incentive for non-stall owners to play the puzzles. Not when it's hardly worth your time.
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[Oct 6, 2017 2:49:24 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Nek0jin

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It may be worth it(Relatively speaking) over the course of a month to use a labor badge, but compared to a pillage where you can earn that entire amount in 3 hours easy? Labor isn't worth it. Even if you play the puzzle for forever, you aren't going to even come close to the same profit that you would get if you went out on a ship.

Yes, some of your profit comes from owning a stall yourself, but just like not everyone owns a ship, not everyone owns a stall. Labor should pay the worker as much as a pillage does, and perhaps even take as much work, if you want it to be considered a real part of the game. Otherwise, it will never be more then that thing you have to do every ten days to keep your stall running.

There is no incentive for non-stall owners to play the puzzles. Not when it's hardly worth your time.

Well, the obvious advantage to labor puzzles is that they're single-player puzzles - do it on your own time, at your convenience. In comparison, pillages require some interaction with other players and reliance on the others not sucking. While it's possible to solo pillage, it's far from ideal, and you're still at the mercy of the (low) quality of the Swabbies. On top of that, pillaging involves costs (cannonballs and rum) and risks (losing fights), problems that shop labor doesn't deal with.

It stands to reason that a coordinated effort with cash and time investments and risks should be more profitable than a solo effort that you can start and stop at a moment's notice, with no risk of loss at all.

That's not to say that shop pay is still ridiculously low, but that's a separate matter.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Nek0jin at Oct 6, 2017 4:01:32 PM]
[Oct 6, 2017 3:28:50 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Scarpath

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Well, the obvious advantage to labor puzzles is that they're single-player puzzles - do it on your own time, at your convenience. In comparison, pillages require some interaction with other players and reliance on the others not sucking. While it's possible to solo pillage, it's far from ideal, and you're still at the mercy of the (low) quality of the Swabbies. On top of that, pillaging involves costs (cannonballs and rum) and risks (losing fights), problems that shop labor doesn't deal with.

It stands to reason that a coordinated effort with cash and time investments and risks should be more profitable than a solo effort that you can start and stop at a moment's notice, with no risk of loss at all.

That's not to say that shop pay is still ridiculously low, but that's a separate matter.

To say that shop labor does not require a similar-if not greater- investment than a pillage is woefully untrue. The stall is like the ship, and just as you have to stock a ship for it to sail, you must also stock a stall before it can sell anything. Iron, wood, cane, hemp, minerals, herbs. Indeed, a shop can(if rarely(and only really if you are being stupid)) cost into the tens of thousands to set up, much more than an average pillage. Even the cheep stalls to set up, IMs and Distilleries still cost a decent chunk.

there are also ALWAYS risks with running a stall. Now, the average worker doesn't see this, but as you mentioned ship stocking, I'll assume you mean more than just the average player here. Stalls, when not run well will lose money, and will lose it FAST. As with any business, real or in a game, the second a person sees a weakness, they are likely to snap on it and use it to earn money themselves. You can lose more poe than you'd earn on an entire pillage in mere moments.
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Also Scarpath on Obsidian, Defiant to the core.

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[Oct 6, 2017 5:02:33 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
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