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Forculus
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On the Horizon: Pillaging update! Reply to this Post
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As I mentioned in a recent post, I'd like to try and open up more discussion about our game design goals and ideas in earlier stages, so that we can give the community a chance to provide feedback and suggestions and help guide the future development of Puzzle Pirates. Some of our post-summer plans are still being arranged, but I wanted to bring up some design updates related to Pillaging that could happen fairly soon with your feedback:

The Problem:
Pillaging has always been a core part of Puzzle Pirates, but it's lost a lot of its luster in recent years as the Sea Monster Hunts have offered more reward and excitement. We've been wanting to find a way to bring pillaging back into the limelight, but in a way that goes beyond just increasing the PoE rewards. At the same time, we don't want to change the core experience of what pillaging is. So we've been looking for a way to introduce something new and interesting into pillaging that all players can take part in - not just the navigator or the most elite players.

The Idea:
With this in mind, we're considering introducing a modified class of brigands into the mix. We're currently calling them "greedy" brigands, and the idea is that they're selfishly hoarding bits of treasure for themselves. They're recognizable by their gaudy jewelry:


These types of pirates will occasionally appear during pillages mixed in among the other enemies, and in increasing numbers based on your pillage's current Booty ramp.

The Mechanic:
So what's different about these brigands? During the Swordfight or Rumble melee, each greedy brigand will have a specific color (i.e. red, green, blue, or yellow in Swordfight) that they are susceptible to. When you perform large strikes against a greedy brigand with the right type of color, you have a chance of stealing special treasure items from them. This is a mockup of how a particular color block might be highlighted during the puzzle:

(Target Blue fused blocks on the left, target Red fused blocks on the right)

The larger your strike, the higher the chance of stealing from your target. If successful, a notice will be sent to your vessel and the treasure placed in your vessel's booty for later division:



Possible Issues:
There are a couple potential problems that could come up:
  • Early in the pillage, when greedy brigands and barbarians are more rare, there may be some amount of exclusion on voyages where only the best swordfighters and rumblers are allowed to target the special brigands.
    • The goal is that as the difficulty ramp increases during the pillage, the number of greedy brigands will become common enough that everyone gets to participate.
  • There may be some incentive to draw out the melee for a long time so that players can build up specific color attacks.
    • It may be necessary to have a cutoff time after which no more treasure can be stolen.
  • If you have a large strike coming up soon, there may be some incentive to "shop around" and find a specific target who's susceptible to that color.
    • This might be OK, since it will result in suboptimal teaming, and thus have some risk associated with the strategy.

Your Feedback!
We'd love to hear your thoughts and suggestions, both on this idea and on Pillaging as a whole:
  • What's on your Pillaging wishlist? Any particular change or improvement that you think would make a big difference?
  • Do you see any potential problems or exploits related to the Greedy brigands idea? Something that would make it better?
  • What kind of special rewards would you like to see from Pillaging to help it keep pace with the Sea Monster Hunts? Special clothing, pets, furniture?

Thanks for reading, your ideas and comments would be much appreciated!
[Jul 21, 2016 7:05:26 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
etieti

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Re: On the Horizon: Pillaging update! Reply to this Post
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Great update but if I may ask ....

We keep switching between pillaging and various SMHs releases but haven't seen anything about flotillas for as long as 7 years excluding the madam add since it didnt got flotillas any more interesting in the long term!

So are flotillas being purposely ignored or they are actually getting worked on aswell?

*Coming from a really old flotilla hunter on the game*
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[Jul 21, 2016 7:21:42 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
bailet

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Re: On the Horizon: Pillaging update! Reply to this Post
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One major issue I see unaddressed is the glaring increase of elitism this is going to bring. Pillaging already does not make enough money to counteract the doubloon cost for new players, and taking greenies on your boat hurts the ramp so much it is just flat out disgusting.

On the topic of this update, I think it is a fantastic and unique idea. I will always hail new content as a plus.

Is the treasure planned to be items/trinkets, commodities or poe? Or a mix of both? It seems that the draw of SMH is the gambling of items/familiars/furniture. I do not think this will be an incentive change if the treasure is just a couple thousand poe.
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Clotho tells ye, "did you hide the skellies this time?"
OM MESSAGE: Complaining the on-duty OM will only result in another flurry of eggs being sent out into the YPP world. Go #TeamPurple!
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[Jul 21, 2016 8:51:09 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Forculus
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Re: On the Horizon: Pillaging update! Reply to this Post
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etieti wrote: 
So are flotillas being purposely ignored or they are actually getting worked on aswell?

*Coming from a really old flotilla hunter on the game*

I'm definitely open to Flotilla changes in the future. I know you've been a longstanding advocate for a Flotilla update here on the forum. The main concern is that this hasn't really been a common request, players have been much more adamant about changes in other areas of the game. If you know others who feel the same way, please encourage them to post in your existing thread. We're definitely listening, and we certainly give more priority to requests that come from a large segment of the community.

bailet wrote: 
One major issue I see unaddressed is the glaring increase of elitism this is going to bring.

We're open to suggestions here. Pillaging will become more profitable in general, so hopefully this at least offsets the costs of bringing greenies. Any new content that rewards skill is going to introduce some level of elitism, but this is rather unavoidable with puzzles like Swordfight and Rumble.

bailet wrote: 
Is the treasure planned to be items/trinkets, commodities or poe?
We'd definitely like to introduce some custom items that can only be won through pillaging. Suggestions and requests are welcome.
[Jul 21, 2016 9:08:24 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
bailet

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etieti wrote: 
So are flotillas being purposely ignored or they are actually getting worked on aswell?

*Coming from a really old flotilla hunter on the game*

I'm definitely open to Flotilla changes in the future. I know you've been a longstanding advocate for a Flotilla update here on the forum. The main concern is that this hasn't really been a common request, players have been much more adamant about changes in other areas of the game. If you know others who feel the same way, please encourage them to post in your existing thread. We're definitely listening, and we certainly give more priority to requests that come from a large segment of the community.

bailet wrote: 
One major issue I see unaddressed is the glaring increase of elitism this is going to bring.

We're open to suggestions here. Pillaging will become more profitable in general, so hopefully this at least offsets the costs of bringing greenies. Any new content that rewards skill is going to introduce some level of elitism, but this is rather unavoidable with puzzles like Swordfight and Rumble.

bailet wrote: 
Is the treasure planned to be items/trinkets, commodities or poe?
We'd definitely like to introduce some custom items that can only be won through pillaging. Suggestions and requests are welcome.



If you wish to get players on ships, I would suggest special loot or boxes that can be won similar to SMH. Boxes bring a special kind of excitement and commitment to see the voyages end.

One of my major complaints about the booty ramp/pillaging is that major stat changes or crew changes kill the ramp very rapidly. It is very hard to get people to commit and I believe that SMH is unique in that the majority of your pay out and excitement comes from that final divvy. Current pillaging divvy is just okay and completely expected. I think that if you add the excitement and draw of boxes, getting people to stay and commit on pillages would be far far easier and more enjoyable for everyone involved.

Exciting stuff!
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Clotho tells ye, "did you hide the skellies this time?"
OM MESSAGE: Complaining the on-duty OM will only result in another flurry of eggs being sent out into the YPP world. Go #TeamPurple!
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[Jul 21, 2016 9:22:43 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
ryujinpp

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Re: On the Horizon: Pillaging update! Reply to this Post
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bailet wrote: 
One of my major complaints about the booty ramp/pillaging is that major stat changes or crew changes kill the ramp very rapidly.
totally agree with this

booty ramp are affected by pirates change throughout the voyage and is very greenie unfriendly, could we perhaps have a totally different system fer this?

say, something tied to winning battles like this on a sloop fighting 7 brigands/barbs:
1. one greedy spawn fer every point, with 0.25 point awarded for every battle won that means the first greedy appears on the 5th battle after winning the first 4 battles
2. max 3 points which means after 12 successive wins, there would be 3 greedies every battle after that
3. minus 0.5 point fer every battle loss (requiring 2 wins to negate each loss)

the same formula can be scaled fer bigger ships using ratio of brigands/barbs fought during melee:
max 6 greedies when fighting 15 brigands/barbs (15/7 *3)
max 17 greedies when fighting 40 brigands/barbs (40/7 *3)

this could possibly encourage more inclusive pillage and longer pillage sessions too (point system can be easily adjusted to adjust the number of greedies being spawn)

 
The Mechanic:
So what's different about these brigands? During the Swordfight or Rumble melee, each greedy brigand will have a specific color (i.e. red, green, blue, or yellow in Swordfight) that they are susceptible to. When you perform large strikes against a greedy brigand with the right type of color, you have a chance of stealing special treasure items from them.
does this means that there is no way to tell which color the greedy brigand is susceptible to? tis all trial and error?

 
What kind of special rewards would you like to see from Pillaging to help it keep pace with the Sea Monster Hunts? Special clothing, pets, furniture?!
not clothing, sword, mug nor bludgeon pls.. too much of those spams from smh
unique pets & furniture would be nice, trinkets too

how abt trophy fer greedies killed? so long as kills done by team mate counts (so that everyone doesnt jump on the greedies in every battle)

while on the topic on pillaging.. pls kindly look into merchant hunt expo
it seems broken... would be good if the 3 pillage expos (buried treasure, shipwreck & merchant hunt) have equal probability of being spawn
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Galene tells ye, "You crashed me 6 times!"

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[Jul 22, 2016 12:29:13 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    https://www.facebook.com/PuzzlePirates [Link]  Go to top 
patgangster

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Re: On the Horizon: Pillaging update! Reply to this Post
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The Idea: "greedy" brigands

Very interesting idea!
 
The Mechanic:
During the Swordfight or Rumble melee, each greedy brigand will have a specific color (i.e. red, green, blue, or yellow in Swordfight) that they are susceptible to. When you perform large strikes against a greedy brigand with the right type of color, you have a chance of stealing special treasure items from them.

Not 100% seeing how this'll work - Is there a way to tell which brigand is weak to which color? Can I only see the 'weakness' of the greedy brigand I am targeting or will there be a way to tell what their 'weakness' color is without having to team towards them? Also how will this work in rumble? Typically a large strike in rumble contains a few groups of every single color - is any kind of rumble strike containing that color going to possibly cause a masterful booty-stealing strike?

 
Possible Issues:
there may be some amount of exclusion on voyages where only the best swordfighters and rumblers are allowed to target the special brigands.

The goal is that as the difficulty ramp increases during the pillage, the number of greedy brigands will become common enough that everyone gets to participate.


Unsure if this will be an issue. I'm not a people expert but typically on the 'job anyone' pillages I would see people not knowing who their 'best swordfighters' are (especially at the earlier parts of the run) and letting anyone have a try while on the more elite pillages everyone should be skilled enough to send attacks large enough to cause this effect to trigger also making it a non-issue.

Once the pillage goes later and they'll be common enough people won't be able to care too much about who attacks them either as there will be enough of them to knock some stuff out of them no matter what.

 
There may be some incentive to draw out the melee for a long time so that players can build up specific color attacks.

It may be necessary to have a cutoff time after which no more treasure can be stolen.

I don't see this being an issue at all. Sending large attacks to these brigands is going to kill these brigands. Not fully finishing them off is going to get your own team destroyed as the brigand will clear their board and instakill you. If you're far enough ahead in the swordfight where this is no longer an issue that will cause you to lose, you will outnumber them by enough that you will end up killing them relatively quickly anyway because you won't survive the fight if you don't attack.
 
If you have a large strike coming up soon, there may be some incentive to "shop around" and find a specific target who's susceptible to that color.

This might be OK, since it will result in suboptimal teaming, and thus have some risk associated with the strategy.

Seems fine to me. As I mentioned before, I don't see how these will work for rumble yet and in a swordfight you often can't delay your attack much. Spending your time "shopping around" would be a significant risk. If you absolutely wanted to prevent this, don't reveal the color/allow masterful booty-stealing strikes for the first say, 10 seconds after reteaming.

 
Do you see any potential problems or exploits related to the Greedy brigands idea? Something that would make it better?

The rarity of these "greedy brigands" might worry me a little, it would have to be balanced well. If there aren't enough of them we can see some of that elitism of possible problem point 1 you mentioned yourself popping up, if they are too common they will go ignored and will just be extra chunks of booty popping up

 
What kind of special rewards would you like to see from Pillaging to help it keep pace with the Sea Monster Hunts? Special clothing, pets, furniture?


Give me some of that jewelry! Gem and gold-based stuff seems very fitting as rewards for these, though gold boxes and their items might limit design space a bit on rewards - many gold items already exist and people would not like it if gold box items were available elsewhere.

I can see this giving out gem-filled furniture like a version of the fancy bed with shiny gems on the bedposts, a treasure chest overflowing with gems instead of only coins, gem-based trinkets which could be traded in for gem-based cannon designs (diamond cannon?) or a ship design (something like the midas-class boats, except gems instead of gold?)

We've seen gemstone sea turtles from gold boxes, how about... gemstone unicorns? (I feel like Karkinos could also be fitting in gem-colors, but not very fitting as pillage reward as they are atlantean, maybe some sort of "design" as possible reward that would allow you to "upgrade" a karkinos to gem-color?)Gem monkeys, similar to the skeletal monkeys except gems as ultra-rare reward?

Maybe add in a new color of chroma based on a gem which we could trade our new trinkets in for which wouldn't be available elsewhere! (If this is going to give out clothes as rewards like SMHs do, maybe two new colors; one you mainly win and one you can only get by trading stuff in to keep it more rare and valuable?)

I was also thinking about some stuff to do with the gem commodities already in the game, but I couldn't think of anything that wouldn't make things feel bad for traditional gem runners

Quick edit: quotes + lists didn't mix well and forums didn't like my own formatting using fake space characters either. Removed some formatting.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by patgangster at Jul 22, 2016 12:44:24 AM]
[Jul 22, 2016 12:43:14 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
G_Deleuze



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Re: On the Horizon: Pillaging update! Reply to this Post
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First things first, great work - I love this update idea. And I also second the 'a flotilla update would be great' position above (flotillas are really fun and I miss them). I'm reenergized knowing that there's more content in the pipes.



But I think, without a fundamental change to the games economy (which could involve updates like this - see below), these updates are somewhat futile. I'm at a point of gameplay where I don't know if I want to commit large amounts of time to the game, because I don't know if there will be people to play with in two years.

I don't think dedicated players leave because there's not new content - they leave because there's a declining base, declining population, less people to use that content.

The reason we can't retain greenies is because the incentive structure of the economy is all screwed up. I know very few people who were recruited during the Steam rush of greenies, but an absolute ton who came during the miniclip days. Although Steam is a platform much better fit for this type of game.

When I was a greenie, I almost stopped playing because unlocking content was difficult. There needs to be a way to get over that hump or less bored/less convinced people won't. I have spent hundreds of dollars on this game - and I've never spent money on a game outside of puzzle pirates.

It is now almost three times as hard to start off - get a bravery badge, officer badge, sloop - for greenies. I know this is meant to push greenies to buy doubloons early. But unless there has been a major increase in that effect since 2007, I don't see why deterring so many players away from the game with an extremely hard work load just to progress makes sense.


Here was a rather large discussion we had on this topic: http://forums.puzzlepirates.com/community/mvnforum/viewthread?thread=203777

There are too many dub sinks and too few PoE sinks, with too many PoE fountains. This adds another one. I know a 'dub spawn' is probably something that would be a nightmare to implement and would go against their purpose, but it would drive costs down and retain greenies. That could be what 'greedy' brigands spawn.

Making pillaging a better PoE spawn works to an extent in that greenies get PoE, but the 'macroeconomic' effect would reentrench the reason they don't stay.
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by G_Deleuze at Jul 22, 2016 2:28:11 AM]
[Jul 22, 2016 2:16:13 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Notsizzly

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Re: On the Horizon: Pillaging update! Reply to this Post
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I'm falling in love with you, Grey Havens <3.

Personally, I'm very happy to know that you are both working on updates and communicating with the players.

Forculus wrote: 

We're definitely listening, and we certainly give more priority to requests that come from a large segment of the community.

Thank you for this as well. Even though it seems obvious, we sometimes forget how it goes.

When it comes to this planned update, I'm also going to voice my concern about elitism that may (or may not) follow. We don't necessarily know beforehand what will happen no matter how much we guess but it just 'feels' that way at this point.

As said previously, please be scarce with the items. There's so much hauled up from SMHs already.

bailet wrote: 

If you wish to get players on ships, I would suggest special loot or boxes that can be won similar to SMH. Boxes bring a special kind of excitement and commitment to see the voyages end.

I am in favor of this, too.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Notsizzly at Jul 22, 2016 5:33:17 AM]
[Jul 22, 2016 4:38:08 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
xelto

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These types of pirates will occasionally appear during pillages mixed in among the other enemies, and in increasing numbers based on your pillage's current Booty ramp.
<snip>
There are a couple potential problems that could come up:
  • Early in the pillage, when greedy brigands and barbarians are more rare, there may be some amount of exclusion on voyages where only the best swordfighters and rumblers are allowed to target the special brigands.


  • As others have mentioned, a certain amount of elitism is going to creep into the game... but then again, it's always been part of the game.

    I don't know how difficult it would be to accomplish this, but possibly having the numbers of gaudy brigands show up at a fairly constant rate, but the value of the loot removed (at least, any loot that has a direct PoE conversion) increases with the ramp. That way, a common take-anyone pillage will still get their share of graspy brigands, but the loot will reflect the low-end status of the pillage, and (in theory, at least) the level of elitism in pillaging will remain constant.


    Edit: I don't know if that made sense. Let me summarize my feelings: you want something where the payout scales with the experience of the pirates-- accessible on casual pillage, but more likely to get a payout from it on more elite pillages. A war brig with mostly greenies and a sloop full of master+ should get the same amount of loot... but that loot gets divided between either 25 pirates or 7 pirates. I'll let other people suggest the hows and wheres of frequency of special pirates; I'll focus my thoughts more on what the booty is.

     
    Your Feedback!
    We'd love to hear your thoughts and suggestions, both on this idea and on Pillaging as a whole:
    • What's on your Pillaging wishlist? Any particular change or improvement that you think would make a big difference?

    If you're adding in non-PoE rewards, add some of them to shipwreck and buried treasure expeditions. Possibly create a new expedition or two.

     
  • Do you see any potential problems or exploits related to the Greedy brigands idea? Something that would make it better?

  •  
  • What kind of special rewards would you like to see from Pillaging to help it keep pace with the Sea Monster Hunts? Special clothing, pets, furniture?

  • Call me crazy if you want, but I would rather not see yet another round of special color clothing, pet, and familiar won from boxes. For a long time, 2/3 of the pirates I saw were wearing indigo. It's not as bad now, but still, I would like to see the rewards be different.

    I don't think you're going to get away from trinkets. In fact, since you're "knocking it loose" from someone else, trinkets are going to more or less be required.

    I can also see junk-grade swords and bludgeons, similar to what spawns in atlantis/CI/HS. Though not very many; I remember the days of the officers on an atlantis run outfitting the entire crew from their junk inventory before a run.

    It also makes sense that a number of the items gained should be pawnable, either at a bank or at a trading post. I mean, you're knocking off jewelry, ivory or gold buttons, haircombs, and other valuable brick-a-brack. And in gameplay terms, this gives players the choice if they want to get PoE (by cashing them in at a bank) or miscellaneous items (heading to the trading post). I know I regularly go through my furniture and scrap all the barrels, broken crates, chests, ships-in-bottles, etc. from my collection. (See also below.)

    Instead of special color clothing, having a few clothing designs players can win would give them better color options, and give the tailors a bit of extra business. Multiple designs so that it doesn't turn into everyone wearing the same type of clothing. (One cautionary note, though; if you have a high doubloon delivery fee, it's not much of a reward. You can balance things by giving them a 15-30 day lifespan, if needed.)

    In addition to the junk-grade weapons mentioned earlier, having a couple weapons that are winnable only through this, similar to having a skeleton bone for rumble, would be nice. And like the skeleton bones, if they're uncommon and have a short lifespan, we won't end up swimming in them.

    As an aside... if you allow anything to spawn more broken crates, anchors, and so forth (I can see that as a result of adding chests to shipwreck or buried treasure), can you give us a way to get rid of them easily, possibly making a bit of PoE along the way? Say, add something to iron mongers where they can buy scrap wood or scrap metal from pirates? This isn't a high priority for me, but nonetheless, if the coding wouldn't be all that hard, it's been one of those minor irritants that's kept bugging me.

     
    Thanks for reading, your ideas and comments would be much appreciated!
     
    There are too many dub sinks and too few PoE sinks, with too many PoE fountains. This adds another one.

    Definitely something to be concerned about. It doesn't seem like this will be a terrible PoE fountain, but having some of the rewards be like my suggestion for winning clothing designs-- something you can spend PoE on ("to customize it") without needing to sink doubloons.


    ---------
    And it's time for me to head off to work... to be continued later!
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    Gurndigarn on Emerald Ocean
    "Oh, come on. You jobbed onto a ship called the Cursed Isle Raider and you expected *refined*?"
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    [Edit 2 times, last edit by xelto at Jul 22, 2016 5:11:14 AM]
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    Crazymg

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    I'm not a huge fan of pillaging but I am excited to see it get an update.

     
  • Do you see any potential problems or exploits related to the Greedy brigands idea? Something that would make it better?

  • I noticed in your vessel message image you were fighting Finius, will BK compasses still have a chance to spawn them? If the treasure is awarded win or lose compasses could potentially be exploited.

     
    What kind of special rewards would you like to see from Pillaging to help it keep pace with the Sea Monster Hunts? Special clothing, pets, furniture?

    Originally I was going to say "No clothing unless it's unique to pillaging and nothing else that's already purchasable from shoppes", however I've been thinking. I despise all the clothing, swords, bludgeons and mugs from SMHs. Not sure about clothing still, but if all the old swords bludgeons and mugs were removed from SMH chests and replaced with more fitting alternatives such as a trident sword from Atlantis, having old "normal" swords etc from pillaging wouldn't be so bad.

    I love Pats gemstone idea for furniture, though not too sure about the Pet and Fam part of it. I'm a Fam addict and I want Fams (but nothing with hats/eyepatch so they can remain LE and I can continue to ignore their existence).
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    Keaze

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    Re: On the Horizon: Pillaging update! Reply to this Post
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    What kind of special rewards would you like to see from Pillaging to help it keep pace with the Sea Monster Hunts? Special clothing, pets, furniture?


    Can we maybe get a new all-in-one bravery/labour/parlour badge that lasts 24-48h. Doesnt stack so seasoned players can't abuse it. I feel like it'd be more beneficial for greenies to win these. Can give those additional 24-48h on top of your labour hours so subscribers/players with badges already can have use for it.

    I think the the initial rewards from the loot should be essential for greenies(poe, weapons, clothing, badges, whisking pots) and other items that'll eventually become common but are exclusive to pillaging and nothing too extravagant. As for incentive for ye ol' salts, maybe we can have a chance box in exchange for greedy brigand trinkets where you can win shinier rewards[Insert whatever Pat said here].

    Not another shade of blue please. Like inky drew the line. I'm convinced that all the nice shades of blue are gone.

    On a side note, release inky chromas already.
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    [Jul 22, 2016 6:29:01 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
    Raalala

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    I love the idea of this update and with it the fact it won't require a badge to do.

    The factor of boxes and surprise loot is also a big plus point, everyone loves the boxes currently in game so I don't see how more would be that bad of a thing, this would hopefully help more poe flow into the game too, so! Yes yes and yes.

    New Greedy Brigands artwork. dolls and trinkets! I don't know anyone who wouldn't want these things. They almost look a little steam-punky from their pictures, already gives me ideas for new clothes too.

    The Mechanic;
    I like the idea of the blocks being worth breaking in a combo to gain extra loot/some loot at all.
    On the fights being drawn out, if we're breaking bigger combos to get loot anyway, they'll die soon enough regardless of how small/big the attacks are. Unless you intend to make them a higher level of fighting AI?
    -In which case, Elite-ism comes in again.
    If you do make a cutoff, maybe have it based on difficulty of the spawn rather than just a one off rate.

    What kind of special rewards would you like to see from Pillaging to help it keep pace with the Sea Monster Hunts? Special clothing, pets, furniture?

    I'd love if it was a steampunk theme, metallic colours, there's a lot of things I can think of furniture wise, Cogs for walls, mechanical chairs/tables with nut and bolt detailing etc. I'll stop before I run away with myself. (Have a google of 'Steampunk Pirate')

    As a sideline;
     
    Your Feedback!
    We'd love to hear your thoughts and suggestions, both on this idea and on Pillaging as a whole:
    • What's on your Pillaging wishlist? Any particular change or improvement that you think would make a big difference?

    For my pillaging wishlist, I think I made it clear in this thread. Give us somewhere new players can better learn the game until they're experienced enough, let some of us Greeters into the area to lend a hand too.

    Either way, I'm excited for this to be an update :)

    Edit -
     
    Can we maybe get a new all-in-one bravery/labour/parlour badge that lasts 24-48h. Doesnt stack so seasoned players can't abuse it. I feel like it'd be more beneficial for greenies to win these. Can give those additional 24-48h on top of your labour hours so subscribers/players with badges already can have use for it.


    You posted this jussssst before me! I don't think this is needed really, there are free days for labor so greenies/anyone can already try those out before committing their dubs to buying a badge to enjoy that puzzle whenever they want in regards to that. Parlour also has free days available. Then bravery, it's rare that people even take greenies on anything like that, they want people who know what they're doing.

    I can just see this idea being abused regardless of how you limit/don't stack it, you don't need to have badges to play the game, just to access more content, I don't agree with giving them the content before they know the basics of what's expected.
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    [Edit 2 times, last edit by Raalala at Jul 22, 2016 7:32:11 AM]
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    saintdiana

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    i like some of the ideas posted, notably:
    - sparklies, in any form you choose. would definitely not mind potions adding jewellery to our looks, not as their own layers, which would affect lag, but as changing the skin file used (tanned with gold earrings would be the one used now, how about tanned with silver, or with a ruby etc.).
    - dolls and trinkets, especially if we'll eventually be able to hold some of them in portraits. we have those mirrors and combs and bangled bracelets defying us already
    - trading in scrap metal and wood, possibly just old items as was suggested when we were discussing lifeboats
    - my first reaction was also "not another type of blue" (though to be fair, there's a nice shade of turquoise more intense and blue than aqua, more green than light blue, that would make a nice addition in my book) -- is there a way for silver to be a colour? silver chromas, mmm
    - trophies for the team, definitely

    would there be greedy barbarians too?

    i'd find it very frustrating if we killed the greedy npp, won the fight, but got nothing because it was the wrong colour. we should know the colour and coordinating shouldn't take too much trouble, otherwise we'll get back to closed circle, voice-chatting teams. your average jeksperow with green name won't get his 1st jolly trophy..
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    patgangster

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    would there be greedy barbarians too?

     
    During the Swordfight or Rumble melee

    Seems like yes.
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    [Jul 22, 2016 7:33:10 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
    saintdiana

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    sorry, missed it in one reading through.
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    Strider399

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    This is an interesting idea.

    My concern:

    Unless there's a specific reason to bring low-skilled players, this is going to be yet another mechanic that causes elitism.

    I honestly have no idea how a mechanic that favors low-skilled players could be implemented without being abused in some way, but perhaps that's just a bullet we'll have to bite.

    I believe the biggest problem facing new-player retention is that almost nobody (myself included) wants to put in the extra effort to bring on new players and teach them the basics of the game. I certainly won't do that in Atlantis where I have a ship and stock at risk of sinking if I have greenies doing poorly on station or flat out leaving after 5 minutes.

    The only logical place to incentivize interacting with new players is on pillages where the voyage leader has virtually no risk of losing their assets if a greenie decides to leave after 5 minutes.

    Provide an incentive for the experienced players to interact with new players and you'll see a much higher retention rate.
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    Liandra1

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    What's on your Pillaging wishlist? Any particular change or improvement that you think would make a big difference?

    -More difficulty settings, let us have sinking enabled in exchange for higher rewards.
    -Don't have expeditions and other things on league points. Nobody likes having their amazing puzzling session restarted forcefully.
    -Use the median skill level of the crew instead of the average skill level, this way we can load some greenies aboard without losing rewards.

     
    What kind of special rewards would you like to see from Pillaging to help it keep pace with the Sea Monster Hunts? Special clothing, pets, furniture?

    -More items similar to kb, getting a couple of these can make or break a pillage, especially for greenies.
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    saintdiana

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    thinking past the shinies and trying to imagine such a melee, my concern really is a very likely quest for bragging rights -- killing off the greedy brigand, regardless of colour, by one competent yet hasty fighter. i wonder, could there be a colour meter, similar to the defence in rumble, above the greedies, showing how much till "enough of their susceptible colour" is reached? it could dwindle, instead of becoming insensitive after 10s as suggested.
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    EmpressTamar

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    I don't think the concern for elitism is justified. As long as it's possible for greenies to spawn the new pillage stuff there will always be greenie pillages running and they will have access to the new rewards. It's fine that elite pirates will spawn these more often. There should be incentives for people to improve at the game. More than that, there should be incentive for elite players to pillage.

    Currently, some people do elite pillages. The current game mechanics allow for increased booty and expo drops to players with higher stats. This is fine. There's never a shortage on greenie pillages, and this new content won't change that. I can see how people might be worried that elitism in pillages could turn into another cit run, but this isn't the case. Unlike cit runs, the player isn't risking their ship. Pillages can be loaded with as little as 3-5 players, so a "rockstar" name isn't needed to load one. If someone isn't jobbed onto a current pillage, they could easily start their own. A badge also wouldn't be required, so that removes a hurdle that greenie players face on other voyages.

    tl;dr elitism is fine as long as there's still a decent chance greenie pillages can succeed
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    Dagnanlian69

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    It's definitely nice to see some changes being talked about, and having read through most of the posts I have to echo what a some others are saying, taking expeditions as an example for pillage expansion, the idea was creative but the initial excitement wore off and they stopped being the main focus. Thus I think something more is needed, I like the idea of gemmed furniture but i think its a little too similar to guilded furny, trinkets wouldn't be all that bad though, especially if we could trade them in for something cool.

    That being said, I'm in favour of a high difficulty ramp because while it's nice for everyone to have a go, I think we can all appreciate how broken KH was on release due to its high payouts and low skillcap demands. Elitism isn't good and i'm not saying it should only be available to elites, but payout should increase with skill, maybe gold dropped could be tied to the size of the strike?

    It might be nice to see some sort of revenge hits on your boat after a certain number of victories against greedys... perhaps another expedition feature? something quite difficult, like maybe the "greedy" leaders put a hit out on your ship or something, to try and recoup pillaged poe (i'm not very good with lore just throwing out ideas)

    Anyways, it was good to see the thread being advertised else i would have missed it, hehe.
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    [Jul 22, 2016 1:50:20 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
    Forculus
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    I really appreciate all of the treasure/prize ideas, I'm putting together a list from these suggestions. Regarding some of the design questions:

    bailet wrote: 
    One of my major complaints about the booty ramp/pillaging is that major stat changes or crew changes kill the ramp very rapidly.

    ryujinpp wrote: 
    booty ramp are affected by pirates change throughout the voyage and is very greenie unfriendly, could we perhaps have a totally different system fer this?

    I will look into using the suggested win/loss history rather than the difficulty ramp. I agree that allowing pirates changes during the pillage would be preferable. One downside however is that this could introduce an exploit, where after reaching the max spawn rate of Greedy brigands, players shuffle around their jobbers to reset the difficulty. This would allow maximum reward with minimal risk. Maybe a combination of the two systems would work.

    ryujinpp wrote: 
    does this means that there is no way to tell which color the greedy brigand is susceptible to? tis all trial and error?

    patgangster wrote: 
    Not 100% seeing how this'll work - Is there a way to tell which brigand is weak to which color?

    When you change your target, the puzzle board updates immediately to highlight a specific color of the fused blocks. We'd like to add some sort of icon or identifier near the face portraits so that you can quickly see the types of Greedy brigands there are, just haven't found a good place to put it yet.

    patgangster wrote: 
    Typically a large strike in rumble contains a few groups of every single color - is any kind of rumble strike containing that color going to possibly cause a masterful booty-stealing strike?

    Good question, I'm still thinking about this. It will likely be based on the number of pieces of that color contained in the strike. So if the Brigand is weak to red strikes, your goal would be to include as many red pieces in the strike as possible. Other colors in the strike would not affect your chance of taking an item.

    xelto wrote: 
    It also makes sense that a number of the items gained should be pawnable, either at a bank or at a trading post.

    I like this idea, I think adding some content to the trading post would work well here. Adding a PoE trade-in option could keep the more common low-end items from accumulating in everyone's inventories, and make them less of a bummer to receive during the divvy.

    Crazymg wrote: 
    I noticed in your vessel message image you were fighting Finius, will BK compasses still have a chance to spawn them? If the treasure is awarded win or lose compasses could potentially be exploited.

    Good point, it might be best to exclude greedy brigands from the BK battles. It kind of makes sense that the BKs wouldn't tolerate hoarders in their elite crews.

    Raalala wrote: 
    On the fights being drawn out, if we're breaking bigger combos to get loot anyway, they'll die soon enough regardless of how small/big the attacks are. Unless you intend to make them a higher level of fighting AI?

    I'm not currently planning to make the greedy brigands more difficult than normal brigands. There's already increased difficulty built into the Booty Ramp, so I don't want to make the fights become too hard (and therefore elite, like you mentioned). This way the greedy brigands can be fun bonus encounters, with no drawbacks.

    Strider399 wrote: 
    Provide an incentive for the experienced players to interact with new players and you'll see a much higher retention rate.

    I'm open to including a bonus in the number of Greedy brigands for bringing greenies along. This can always be abused, but maybe if the bonus was capped at a moderate level, it would be more worthwhile for players to just bring real greenies rather than to try and game the system. If the incentive is too high, then everyone is just going to make fake greenies for every pillage.

    Dagnanlian69 wrote: 
    maybe gold dropped could be tied to the size of the strike?

    The chance of taking treasure from them is tied directly to the size of the strike, so there's incentive to try and build up a really powerful attack.
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    [Jul 22, 2016 2:41:39 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
    Darkings



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    Didn't bother reading the replies since I'm just giving my feedback, so I might repeat somethings.


    First of all
    Hi, long time no see, currently don't have to play but I think this is something that I should take part in, since I would like to see this game survive for a long time.


    Second, I'm one of those people that only plays a game if I can control the amount of time I put in. So I'm one of those that don't like game sessions that requires an absurd amount of hours to play, basically more than 1 hour for me is a no no.

    I only came back to this game because kraken had content that I could control the amount of time I played. Lets be honest kraken is the only content that allows players to get a substantial amount of wealth doing it solo (more than one client ), so I don't waste time waiting for someone to play.
    Basically if something appends in real life I can excuse myself without anyone being mad for leaving mid way.



    Ok with that in mind let me give you my feedback .





    *claps* community discussion before update :)


    ' At the same time, we don't want to change the core experience of what pillaging is'


    Le sigh, c'mon this is something you should focus if you want to retain the new players, lets face reality gamers mentality as changed in this 10+ years and its obvious that this 'core experience' is one of the big factors that they don't stay for long.
    What worked 10 years ago is highly unlikely to work nowadays, but that's my personal opinion.

    Yes payouts are awful but that's not the main problem here (new players only care about money if they want to play the game)

    The main problem here is that it takes more than 10+ minutes to get a target and finish the battle, and in those 10 minutes the new player is doing the same puzzle without knowing what's ahead. This alone is an huge turn off.






    What's on your Pillaging wishlist? Any particular change or improvement that you think would make a big difference?


    .Destroy the idea of a booty ramp, personally I hate this with all my might, so you telling me I have to grind for at least 3 battles till I start getting a decent reward? We have to change this mentality if we want to attract the new generation of I WANT IT NOW


    .Score on puzzles shouldn't matter if you really want new players to play with the veterans.
    A new player can't play a puzzle and ask question at the same time, put you're self in their shoes most of them don't even know how to talk when puzzling.
    And veterans don't want a bad score on their boat since it hurts the ramp


    .An option to auto-port with a fee cost to the pirate in charge of the vessel, real life in my case usually takes priority, I don't want my jobbers to lose some payout because I had to leave mid battle.


    .option to choose between 30 seconds turns or 15 seconds in battles, against bots 30 seconds is a lot in my opinion





    Do you see any potential problems or exploits related to the Greedy brigands idea? Something that would make it better?



    I will focus only in the fighting mechanism since I despise the booty ramp.

    Basically everyone will be fighting the same greedy pirate, so I can assume he will be stalling, so its easy to abuse this since you can time the strike easily, true not everyone can do this, but I have a group of friends that are top notch when it comes to abuse this tactic , so we can assume that sooner or later people will start doing it.
    So I think there's should be a limit in the amount of treasure you can retrieve.









    What kind of special rewards would you like to see from Pillaging to help it keep pace with the Sea Monster Hunts? Special clothing, pets, furniture?


    I only SMH for familiars so....

    Special rewards are only worth if they are rare, since anyone can do pillages, there's no point in making them unless they are really really rare, so anything is fine since its the ego of pirates that makes them worth it.




    The main concern is that this hasn't really been a common request, players have been much more adamant about changes in other areas of the game.


    Its not common request since only a hand full of players bothers running them since its an huge amount of wasted time. Lets be honest here new players don't even know what's the point of finishing a flotilla, there's a lot of miss information about flotillas, and currently the only purpose they see its free money with a bunch of botted clients, or free #1 treasure haul



    Have a nice day.
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    [Jul 22, 2016 2:53:35 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
    bailet

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    Also, just a side note, would it be possible to open up ice for everyone for this update? It is important that this is balanced for larger ships, and we cannot fill more than one or two sloops on ice.
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    [Jul 22, 2016 3:32:25 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
    ruined_ashes

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    All I have to say that I think is the most important, is please don't make it just for elites. Elites already have so much in game. Besides that I think fam rewards are really the way to go to compete with smh's, if its a two color of any color combination, that would make a lot of fams to aim to get for collectors and with other rewards it can still be a rare thing. Something similar to the spider maybe? Small and mostly static. Also, trophies! more than 3-5 tier trophies would be awesome. I like long term but still casual goals. By the way, I don't think I've ever been able to catch one of those merchant expos on one of my own pillages... and I don't have much to say on the game play aspect because I don't think I understand it all quite yet D:
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    Sagacious

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    I think what would be nice is to give each player aboard their own mini-ramp with this Greedy Brigands system. The longer you're on the pillage, the better your rewards from them are or something. Incentivize spending time on the pillage beyond just the one battle is good, but also it could actively discourage abandoning a ship in battle to avoid losing a portion of your bonus already worked towards.
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    Meehearties

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    First I would like to say that I love the idea of a new update to pillaging. This is where I started in the game and it is what got me hooked.

    I am loving the idea of the greedy brigands being thrown into the mix. Some people mentioned how to identify which colour the greedy brigands are susceptible to and Forculus you mentioned adding an identifier for it but you hadn't decided where to place it yet...How about making it as simple as each greedy brigand is wearing an item of jewellery that has a gem in the colour they are susceptible to attacks from?

    This would then flow nicely into Pats idea regarding the gem based rewards: furniture, trinkets etc. I love this idea. It would be a nice addition to the game using an existing element. I say we use silver as the primary colour to give a marked distinction and not have it look like gold box items. We could have items like:

    -- a new category of Gem jewellery that is wearable in game as an item of clothing. We could then have blinged out jewellery case furniture items in various colours that would work like trinket cases or wardrobes to store these items.
    -- a pile of gems or chest of gems as suggested above
    -- an egg pedestal for all our lovely egg furniture. Something ornate and encrusted with jewels
    -- wall mounted racks that hold all the wall furniture in game. Make them work like trinket cases. It would give us extra wall space too. There is so much in game that requires wall space but never enough wall space
    -- gem blinged out game tables that let you play all the various carousing games. You could even add an identifier that lets other players see that you are playing on a special table. e.g. when you play poker or spades or hearts your cards are a special gem designed deck.
    -- pool furniture
    -- rugs
    -- deed box
    -- chart box
    -- chandeliers
    -- daybeds
    -- hourglass table top item
    -- grammophone table top item
    -- steamer trunks to use as coffee tables
    -- wall mirrors
    -- doubloon holder that work like cash boxes
    -- divider screen (something different to the byobu screen we have now
    -- obviously designs would be great too. we could trade in trinkets for them. We could have a gem class ship. And from that we could have cannons, helms etc too

    Boxes are always good! Since the introduction of mystery boxes players have gone insane for boxes and I don't feel that has ever diminished. I would suggest having the ship win items in box form that is divided at booty. This creates a great incentive for players to stick around and puzzle hard. I think it would ultimately lead to new players learning more and as they learn they will grow to love the game and want to stay to play. You could even go so far as to add these items to special expos. Say a greedy brigand could give you a special expo chart and whatever boxes you dig up or haul could have hidden treasure that the greedy brigand had stashed there.

    just a few ideas...

    Mee
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    [Jul 22, 2016 5:28:37 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
    xcrysta

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    First off - scrap the current booty ramp, I don't really know a solid alternative but perhaps a standard amount the ship can win after a battle, which varies depending on the route and difficulty of ships, but then also have a personal ramp for each pirate that goes up/down according to their performance, so, after a battle, a sloop might win 5k that goes into the normal booty to be divided at the end, the pirate doing incredible on sails gets 5k straight to their coffers, and the pirate doing fine on bilge gets say 500 poe straight to their coffers, so there is an incentive to puzzle well and improve, a way for more elite players to get more poe, and newbies don't affect the overall ship score/payout so more people will job them, and they also get something out of trying to improve their game skills. For the greedy brigands, you could have extra bonuses for having a more diverse crew - for example the rewards could be higher for having 3 elite pirates 2 greenies and one average scoring pirate than for having 6 elite pirates or one elite and 5 greenie alts... this would be irritating to try and get around with alts and encourage people to job everyone.

    As for rewards, I like the idea of gem based furniture, clothing designs, and some fancy jewellery, as well as rare pets or designs to 'bling up' an existing pets, and I also think you should be able to win dubs, based on the scale mentioned above. This could be an uncommon but not rare occurrence and each pirate gets the dubs straight to their coffers, with elite pirates who have performed well getting more and newbies getting less. This sounds a little elitist but it means that elite pirates can still benefit from running pillages with new jobbers, rather than having their ramp trashed, and that new jobbers, while they may not get as good of a deal, will still get some poe/dubs/items that will help them on their way to playing the rest of the game, and they will actually be able to get jobbed on pillages.

    I also love the idea others have had of being able to exchange junk furniture etc - perhaps a new building - the scrap yard - take your junk and exchange it for wood/iron/stone that you can either sell or use in shops.
    [Jul 22, 2016 8:12:40 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
    LJAmethyst

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    First off - scrap the current booty ramp


    It was nerfed with such great prejudice so long ago that it can hardly be said to still exist.
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    ryujinpp

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    ryujinpp wrote: 
    does this means that there is no way to tell which color the greedy brigand is susceptible to? tis all trial and error?

    patgangster wrote: 
    Not 100% seeing how this'll work - Is there a way to tell which brigand is weak to which color?

    When you change your target, the puzzle board updates immediately to highlight a specific color of the fused blocks. We'd like to add some sort of icon or identifier near the face portraits so that you can quickly see the types of Greedy brigands there are, just haven't found a good place to put it yet.
    woot!!! so long as there is some form of identification, us pirates can learn to look fer what we're supposed to find :D
     
    xelto wrote: 
    It also makes sense that a number of the items gained should be pawnable, either at a bank or at a trading post.

    I like this idea, I think adding some content to the trading post would work well here. Adding a PoE trade-in option could keep the more common low-end items from accumulating in everyone's inventories, and make them less of a bummer to receive during the divvy.
    more wootssss!!! very certainly help take care of the massive inventory buildup everyone has :D
     
    Crazymg wrote: 
    I noticed in your vessel message image you were fighting Finius, will BK compasses still have a chance to spawn them? If the treasure is awarded win or lose compasses could potentially be exploited.

    Good point, it might be best to exclude greedy brigands from the BK battles. It kind of makes sense that the BKs wouldn't tolerate hoarders in their elite crews.
    potential problem... since BK expo do randomly spawn during pillage, disabling greedies from them might make everyone shun the expo... is there anyway to code the compasses so that it can't be exploited fer this new content but yet allow greedies to spawn in regular BK expo? if its waaay too cumbersome, then simply exclude greedies from BK but it would be nice not to have every pillages shunning BK expo
     
    Dagnanlian69 wrote: 
    maybe gold dropped could be tied to the size of the strike?

    The chance of taking treasure from them is tied directly to the size of the strike, so there's incentive to try and build up a really powerful attack.
    this would be an interesting gameplay change in the way we sf/rumble in pillage.. wouldnt want to kill the greedies without taking any treasure
    ----------------------------------------
    Galene tells ye, "I reserve the right to not deliver prizes to you anymore in the future :P"
    Galene tells ye, "You crashed me 6 times!"

    Ryujin on all oceans
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