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Forums » List all forums » Forum: Tips & Tricks, Questions & Answers » Thread: Kraken Discussion |
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Thread Status: Normal Total posts in this thread: 30 |
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lukin8
Joined: Jun 22, 2007 Posts: 48 Status: Offline |
I know there's a very long one going on on Ice, but not a lot of people stumble in that forum and now that it's ocean-wide I think there are some problems that need addressing: 1. Obviously the cost of lifeboats will go down ocean-wide once the economy straightens out a bit and SYs catch up, but as far as I can tell, even with a lowered cost, there is no incentive to be a vessel-owner on a Kraken. I ran a four man double entry run yesterday where we made 105k total. After the booty div, I made 41k. Once I discount the 32k for lifeboats though, I walked away with a measly 9k for an hour of work. Even if lifeboats go down to 1k each (which would be about right considering labor and commod costs) I still would have made less than the jobbers on my ship. (I also hauled in two eggs and a CC which was about average for our ship) 2. We're already seeing GM+ Bnav requests on Emerald, which is fine for me, but when the average player has to have Master + puzzle for a cit, plus SF, and GM+ on CIs is this at all going to be beneficial to the game? The problem is I don't blame them. I thought I'd be nice and allow anyone in my flag who wanted to come on a Dhow and after costs for lifeboats (and the fact that many on the ship didn't have the skills to do anything other than haul cuttle boxes) I ended up losing around 70k. Obviously this is the first week and the vast majority of those on the ship have never navved in any SMH, but after that, I went to strictly navvers I know and trust and didn't even advertise on the NB. 3. The tentacle distribution seems to be buggy. I've gone on four man krakens and the board had just a handful of tentacles and even once no defendacles and another with tents all over the board. What is the cause for that? Because booty divisions are wonky there is little incentive to run a Kraken and if you do, you're less likely to bring in anyone but elites to run with you as the cost to do otherwise is too risky. Also tents are bugged or not... discuss ---------------------------------------- Lukineight Captain of The Stoic Vikings Prince of Illuminatti |
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SaviourS
Joined: Aug 17, 2008 Posts: 668 Status: Offline |
Seems very elitist, gets boring pretty fast, and takes too long to do if you're in it for some sort of profit. ---------------------------------------- Saviour, Meridian |
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wrs1864b
Joined: Apr 10, 2006 Posts: 6337 Status: Offline |
Are seriously paying 4k per lifeboat? You can get them on cerulean for 500-700PoE. At that price, it would be worth it to open a SY stall and make your own. ---------------------------------------- Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent. |
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RonenOsden
Joined: Jan 9, 2009 Posts: 1123 Status: Offline |
I'm doing just fine soloing. It can be a bit swarmy, but when you figure out how tents usually move it's easy. As for not making profit, i make plently per dip solo. That's usually just lockers and boxes, if I get pods or eggs it can be double as much. This is on cerulean of course, so lifeboats around only about 500 per now. ---------------------------------------- Cptnronen Born And Raised On The Cobalt Ocean Status : Preparing for the end. Avatar created by the amazing Cattrin. |
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wrs1864b
Joined: Apr 10, 2006 Posts: 6337 Status: Offline |
OK, poking around on YARRG, I see that you can indeed pay 3k+ for lifeboats. It appears that the green ocean economies have not had time to adjust yet, which means demand is outstripping supply, which causes prices to skyrocket, which leads to highly elites runs. Give it a week or so. Once lifeboats drop to a more normal level, elitism will disappear. (Cerulean has adapted already for the wrong reasons. When OOO merged the oceans, they gave every subscriber 30% more labor than they needed to have game balance. As a result, almost all the stores were filled to the gills with reserved labor.) ---------------------------------------- Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent. |
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WutaiWeb
Joined: Jun 12, 2014 Posts: 322 Status: Offline |
So much so that workers have to search to find shops that need labor. :3 http://forums.puzzlepirates.com/community/mvnforum/viewthread?thread=178937 (if you're looking for work on Cerulean) As a shopkeeper (still researching where to plop down on Ceru :3 ), though, it feels great. :D ---------------------------------------- Hiding. :3 Wutai - |
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lukin8
Joined: Jun 22, 2007 Posts: 48 Status: Offline |
Soloing is one thing, but if I want to play solo, I can make money doing all sorts of things. To me the intent of Kraken and any PP game on the ocean is the group. It seems like a lot of the respondents are all soloing which defeats the purpose IMO ---------------------------------------- Lukineight Captain of The Stoic Vikings Prince of Illuminatti ---------------------------------------- [Edit 1 times, last edit by lukin8 at Aug 2, 2014 8:47:28 AM] |
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Quitex
Joined: Oct 9, 2006 Posts: 8144 Status: Offline |
What is that withcery website you got there?!?!?!?! ---------------------------------------- Quitex, everywhere, mainly Ice. Monarch of Cows
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wrs1864b
Joined: Apr 10, 2006 Posts: 6337 Status: Offline |
Poking around some more, the sales tax rate for wood (and my dockside market mearsures) have shot up, so it appears that there isn't enough wood spawning to keep up with demand. This price rise isn't as bad as it was on Ice when the kraken was released, but it's getting close. It took Ice 10 days to adjust, but I suspect that it will be quicker on production. So, again, give it a week and prices for lifeboats should be reasonable, although it make take close to a month to completely stabilize. ---------------------------------------- Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent. |
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WutaiWeb
Joined: Jun 12, 2014 Posts: 322 Status: Offline |
Sarcasm-sensors weren't working so I just decided to post anyways, to be on the safe side. :p http://yarrg.chiark.net/intro http://yppedia.puzzlepirates.com/YARRG An unwieldy website for looking up up-to-date buy/sell prices between islands, intended for traders. So difficult to use, though; I wish there was some program that would just let me go to the commodity markets of the islands I want, scan the buy/sell prices, and just show me a island-by-island side-by-side comparison listing all commodities. :p ---------------------------------------- Hiding. :3 Wutai - |
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wrs1864b
Joined: Apr 10, 2006 Posts: 6337 Status: Offline |
This is kind off off-topic, but...
Well, yes, Ian Jackson (Aristarchus) was mostly a trader, and as such he scratched his own itch, so it is more oriented to traders. Still, it is the best publicly available system that YPP has ever had.
I'm not even sure what you are asking for here, but like most good open source software developers, Ian has released the source code to YARRG so that it doesn't do what you want, you can fix it yourself. Someone has to do it, it might as well be you scratching your own itch. For example, I have written several programs to use the market data that may be closer to what you want. For example if I just wanted to know about lifeboats on Kirin, Dragon's nest, and Terra, I would type: wayne@hipbone: $ ./yarrg_commods -islands kirin,dragon,terra -sell lifeboat 100@1000This shows the available lifeboats, first sorted by price and which islands have what quantity at that price, then sorted by island (cheapest average cost first) and what prices are available at those prices I also have a program that displays things much closer to the dockside market format, and maybe more of what you are looking for: wayne@hipbone: $ ./grep_marketdata -islands kirin,dragon,terra -sell lifeboat Sadly, because I wrote these programs to scratch my own itch, and they are deeply intertwined with other programs I wrote, I can't easily release them, and even if I did, it would probably be hard to make them work on your machine. But, it shows that you can take what Ian started and do what you want with them. ---------------------------------------- Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent. ---------------------------------------- [Edit 1 times, last edit by wrs1864b at Aug 3, 2014 8:27:29 AM] |
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WutaiWeb
Joined: Jun 12, 2014 Posts: 322 Status: Offline |
I'm code-stupid. :[ I'll just stick to my spreadsheets, moaning and groaning for someone to code for me. :p ---------------------------------------- Hiding. :3 Wutai - |
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Quitex
Joined: Oct 9, 2006 Posts: 8144 Status: Offline |
It's broken for Ice tho :P It doesn;t show the mountains of stock I have for sale at Fort Royal :P ---------------------------------------- Quitex, everywhere, mainly Ice. Monarch of Cows
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wrs1864b
Joined: Apr 10, 2006 Posts: 6337 Status: Offline |
YARRG isn't broken, it is just that no one has uploaded new market data since I did it 3 days ago. And, to be honest, it is unlikely that Ice will be updated any time soon. In the last year or so, probably longer, I've done the vast majority of market uploads and when I am not playing on Ice, that is rarely more than once every several months. Cerulean and Meridian get updated by a lot more people a lot more often. Emerald isn't too bad, but there are islands there that haven't been updated for a year or more. But, you raise a good point: If you are a shopkeeper that wants to sell stuff, uploading market data is a good form of advertising. ---------------------------------------- Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent. |
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Quitex
Joined: Oct 9, 2006 Posts: 8144 Status: Offline |
I thought it was done automatically! My bad! ---------------------------------------- Quitex, everywhere, mainly Ice. Monarch of Cows
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Sverdrup
Joined: Jan 3, 2010 Posts: 649 Status: Offline |
Ah, the power and beauty of Unix and shell-scripting. I see what you are doing here, as I do it all the time in my real life and profession. Take a Unix class, kids, or expose yerself to a physics or engineering major in college ... it pays really well and jobs are aplenty with these skills. I know ;-) ---------------------------------------- Sverdrup, CPTN of Schroedinger's Cat, Heisenberg's Uncertainty, Meridian ---------------------------------------- [Edit 1 times, last edit by Sverdrup at Aug 5, 2014 4:59:54 AM] |
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Belthazar451
Joined: Sep 17, 2007 Posts: 3561 Status: Offline |
I did both physics AND engineering, but our computer courses seemed to pass from "this is a keyboard, and this is a mouse" to "now write an SMTP client in java" without passing through any of the points in between... |
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wrs1864b
Joined: Apr 10, 2006 Posts: 6337 Status: Offline |
I'm not sure if this will make you happy or sad, but making spreadsheets *IS* computer programming. Most spreadsheet programs are turing complete, which means they are able to calculate an answer to any problem that any other computer programming language can. Using computers without knowing how to program is like using books without knowing how to write. Sure, you can get a lot out of them, but you will always be a second-class citizen until you are able write. ---------------------------------------- Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent. ---------------------------------------- [Edit 1 times, last edit by wrs1864b at Aug 5, 2014 5:53:29 AM] |
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Trident_2K5
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To somewhat re-rail the thread, is it me, or is it looking somewhat weird? SYs on Meridian work overtime, it was a week since I saw a SY with any reserve labour anywhere, which looks like everyone everywhere is cranking out lifeboats as fast as they could and commodities aren't the limiting factor. Nevertheless, they don't show any signs of getting any cheaper on average. In fact, they're getting more expensive, if anything. First few days after the release the going rate seemed to be 2K/boat give or take, but now it's 3K for the direct order and 4K+ dockside. So, what's happening and why? ---------------------------------------- mostly offline. |
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wrs1864b
Joined: Apr 10, 2006 Posts: 6337 Status: Offline |
As I mentioned earlier, wood prices do appear to be shooting up, which is a sign that demand is outstripping supply. At the time, I said it hadn't gotten to the point that it was on Ice during the start of the kraken testing, but close. Well, it is now about as bad. I know that I am running out of wood and yesterday I was paying 41PoE/unit just to try and get more. Again, give it a week for the dynamic spawn to adjust and for SYs to catch up. They prices should start falling and within two weeks, should fall dramatically. detais: The cost of buying wood wayne@hipbone: $ (c="wood"; d="?(2014-07-3*|2014-08-*)"; o=Meridian; \ The fact that the sales tax rate has gone up much more than the typical dockside market buy price tells me that there are a few islands where people are paying a lot for wood and a lot of wood is being sold to them, while the rest of the ocean is staying much more stable. The price of lifeboats on the dockside market (which are few and far between, mostly on places that can't sell them): wayne@hipbone: $ (c="lifeboats"; d="?(2014-07-3*|2014-08-*)"; o=Meridian; \ ---------------------------------------- Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent. ---------------------------------------- [Edit 3 times, last edit by wrs1864b at Aug 5, 2014 6:49:49 AM] |
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Trident_2K5
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Hmm... Those look like dockside buy prices. Plain YARRG gives those right now for sell prices (sorry for broken tables:)
---------------------------------------- mostly offline. |
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wrs1864b
Joined: Apr 10, 2006 Posts: 6337 Status: Offline |
No, those prices are how cheaply you can buy lifeboats for, if you are willing to do a bit of sailing and don't buy an "unreasonable" number. Similarly, the "dock market" price of wood that I quoted earlier is the how much you can sell wood for, if you are willing to do a bit of sailing and don't try to sell an unreasonable amount (which in the case of wood, is a LOT). So, back on 07-30, there were folks sellling lifeboats for only 700PoE each, but today, you would have to pay 2500PoE. But, as I said, the number of places selling them are few and far between and probably not where people want to buy them. The two important take-aways are that wood prices have risen a lot and are probably the bottleneck to production, and that yeah, the price of lifeboats is trending up, but don't read too much into that, there is thin data on it. ---------------------------------------- Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent. |
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Trident_2K5
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And again, is it me, or are tentacles biased towards the left side of the board? It's nearly irrelevant for lockers/pods/eggs, but whenever someone goes for cuttle boxes, tents seem to nearly ignore them if the box is on the right, and act as aggressively as ever if it's on the left. Not that cuttle boxes are difficult to get in either case, but it's still strange... ---------------------------------------- mostly offline. |
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wrs1864b
Joined: Apr 10, 2006 Posts: 6337 Status: Offline |
Yes, I've seen that too. I disagree about not being relevant to other chests. During Ice testing, I used to see a bunch wall-humping the left edge, never venturing off of it. (I /bug'ed it, but I didn't think to mention it was always the left side...) ---------------------------------------- Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent. |
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Trident_2K5
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Never seen that, live or on Ice, but there's still... Something going on. On the left a tent would go all the way to the safezone edge if it sees someone there. On the right, they occasionally enter the spawn area but never go below that, and sometimes tend to act erratically if they touch the right wall. (I saw a tent just standing there doing nothing with my boat 2 squares away today. Not even wall-humping, just standing there. May not be really related though, I never seen one frozen like that before and seen them act normally despite touching the wall.) Once you're past the cuttle spawn there's little difference, at least as far as I've seen but I might be wrong. ---------------------------------------- mostly offline. ---------------------------------------- [Edit 1 times, last edit by Trident_2K5 at Aug 6, 2014 10:32:55 AM] |
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hammer1
Joined: Aug 29, 2005 Posts: 343 Status: Offline |
What price are you selling your lifeboat's on Dragons nest Agol ? A fair price compared to the rest of Cerulean ? ---------------------------------------- Blackhammer. |
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wrs1864b
Joined: Apr 10, 2006 Posts: 6337 Status: Offline |
I have a few simple rules for shopkeeping. If I'm selling something faster than I can make them (or ship them in), I raise my price. If I'm making something faster than I can sell it (dockside, or by trading), I lower my price. If the price gets too low, I stop making them. I'm currently selling lifeboats at a high price (834PoE each) because taxes on DN are high compared to most other islands on Cerulean, wood is *VERY* hard to get, I'm using more than a WF full of wood per day, and demand is crazy. I'm selling them for 670PoE each on my SY on kirin, where wood is "only" hard to get and demand isn't so crazy. Feel free to ship lifeboats in to DN from places like Kirin, I have. And, if you have any wood, I'm buying wood @ 39PoE, I'll take all I can get. So, yes, compared with the amount of work I do to make sure DN has lifeboats, yeah, the price is very fair. ---------------------------------------- Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent. |
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Belthazar451
Joined: Sep 17, 2007 Posts: 3561 Status: Offline |
So, been trying to figure out the behaviour of the kraken head as it resurfaces. It seems it's possible to prevent the animation (but apparently not the effect) of the head's tidal wave if you shoot the head at any point in the turn that it resurfaces - tested the first, second and third moves in that turn (though admittedly not the fourth). However, if you don't sink it, or you miss your shot, the head resurfaces during the movement phase of the first move. That is to say, even though you don't see the tidal wave on a successful attempt, you still need to start the turn outside of the danger area, otherwise you sink. More to the point, the same happens if another boat is inside the danger zone as the turn starts - the head pops up in the first move, and the other boat immediately starts the sinking animation, at which point they can no longer be pushed out of the way. I haven't figured out what happens when there's another boat in the danger zone, but I successfully sink the head as it resurfaces. Anyone else notice anything? Related note: do actions taken in the final turn count? The first move begins playing, but then you get transported back to the ship... |
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24longave
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The bomb is last on the list of moves just like a cannon shot, and the kraken head surfacing is first. So you and any other ships within the 4x4 square will sink during the turn that the kraken surfaces. So basically, get out of the tidal wave zone before or during the turn the defendacles spawn. The animation of the kraken head surfacing will only happen if you don't bomb it in the turn that it surfaces. Also, eggs and chests and ink taken in during the final turn count =) ---------------------------------------- Meridian Ocean - Bordercollie |
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jlh0605
Joined: May 1, 2007 Posts: 2243 Status: Offline |
I agree with what you said - it appears as though for all intents and purposes, the head actually does surface before move 1. I notice this mostly when tentacles ram against the Kraken itself. I wish it would just play the animation before turn one to be consistent, though it appears the only exception is, as you mentioned, if the Kraken head is sunk during the turn it would have surfaced. (And yes, I have done it on move 4). ---------------------------------------- ~Jamesh on Emerald Avatar by PixelPixie Galene tells ye, "You are awesome." |
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