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JJAPS2



Joined: May 28, 2006
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Fruit Foraging: What controls the spawning of chests? Reply to this Post
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So, I've been trying my hand at foraging, and getting used to the puzzle scoring/ dealing with all the bugs. However, I'm curious as to why it even matters at all.

For Example: This last session I was pulling Excellents/Low Incredible on the DR's. Pretty good. However, I did not get a single chest (or whatever the official name is for the 3-column boxes.) This is kind of important, as the difference between the value of the chests and the other fruit can be quite massive.

Meanwhile, I was playing rather poorly (or at least that's what the game thought,) and I get a Chest spawn. I'm fairly sure that I earned more PoE for that day's worth than the day I got Excellents.

Now, I totally understand that I'm using a sort-of flawed thought process here (Better performance at puzzle does not necessarily mean More PoE gained.) However, it feels like my performance on the puzzle. according to the DR, is 100% meaningless.

So. . .what controls the spawning of the chests?

I initially though that it factored scoring in (AKA If I'm doing well it throws in chests, if I'm doing poorly it doesn't) However, now I'm not so sure. Is there any way I can control when chests actually spawn?

This is really important when it pertains to combos. As far as scoring goes, making a few moves (and, if we're using medium sized boxes, perhaps taking a bit of a risk) to get a double/bigger chain is worth it (keyword here is "few".) However, if the "Excellent" I see afterwords is meaningless. . .what's the point? Why would I focus on combos if they result in no significant change whatsoever?

It feels like every other puzzle with a DR has a in-game effect based on that DR. Getting a better DR on a duty puzzle results in higher speed/ more move tokens/ more repair/more bilge pumping. Doesn't mean you'll instantly get more money for doing so, but it presents a greater opportunity to do so. (More speed = more the OIC can manuver around the enemy = greater Potential for advantage in the SF = greater potential for winning. Lots of potential, but nothing set in stone.) In the same way, higher crafting puzzle DR's result in higher grades of labor produced (which, although usually a increase in pay, is not guaranteed to be a increase in pay.)

Since I don't think that high DR effect chest spawn anymore. . .this isn't really the case for foraging. Quite frankly, my view of the puzzle currently is that a 24/24 day getting only Booched is MUCH BETTER than a 23/24 day getting mostly High Increds (with the exception of the dismissed board.) The high DR does NOT increase the potential for a higher payout in anyway, from what I have observed, however the loss of a crate resulted in a loss of money, resulting in a net decrease in payout.

So. . .what effects the spawn? Is it just the hope of the RNG? Does a better DR result in more chests? Is it standing, or experience? (I'm really hoping not, as it means A) game mechanical incentive to boosting, and B) Against the concept of all the other puzzles in the game.) Is it some other factor I don't know of?

This is Really important. . .if it's just a RNG then I'll just take every precaution possible to avoid a stuck crate and ensure a 24/24 day, and then just pretend the DR doesn't even exist. Why try for a Incred if it doesn't give me the potential to profit from it? Heck, if this is indeed the case then people may as well just forage CI style all the time, as the only thing that matters is how many of the 24 boxes you pick up and how much time you waste in doing so. . .

So. . .What controls the spawning of chests, and why do I care if I got a excellent on a foraging DR?
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AHEM.........Mentlegen?

Mentlegen on the Viridian Ocean
[Sep 25, 2013 5:59:37 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Boyscout9



Joined: Jan 3, 2006
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Re: Fruit Foraging: What controls the spawning of chests? Reply to this Post
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I believe, though probably not 100% right, that your puzzle standing is the answer. Your puzzle standing determines whether or not you provide basic (1), advanced (2), or expert labor(3). Since you are after the 3 columns, you need to have a higher puzzle standing (let's say Master for arguement's sake) to have a high chance of getting a chest to spawn. Where as an able pirate would spawn more pineapples on average. Like with all labor puzzles you cannot provide 100% expert labor (sometimes its downgraded for the shop) so in forage it's spanned out in a tier format. So it would look something like this

5% Chest
35% Large Fruit
60% Small Fruit

I cannot confirm or deny this, but after all the foraging I've done and seen done, this is the only explanation I have for you.
[Sep 25, 2013 8:15:38 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
JJAPS2



Joined: May 28, 2006
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Re: Fruit Foraging: What controls the spawning of chests? Reply to this Post
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I believe, though probably not 100% right, that your puzzle standing is the answer. Your puzzle standing determines whether or not you provide basic (1), advanced (2), or expert labor(3).


This is not necessarily correct. It is true that puzzle standing is utilized for offline (AKA "reserve") labor. However, even if your puzzle standing is low, you can play the puzzle, pull a incredible, and output 1 hour of expert labor. When you enter the puzzle, you are (normally*) on the same level as everyone else, regardless of standing.

* Some exceptions for pirates just learning the puzzle with shorter boards (Ex. The first foraging board has only 3 smalls, so it's more difficult to get a Incredible on said board.)


 
Since you are after the 3 columns, you need to have a higher puzzle standing (let's say Master for argument's sake) to have a high chance of getting a chest to spawn. Where as an able pirate would spawn more pineapples on average.


I've already addressed my concerns for this. I would seriously doubt that three rings would include a puzzle that provides a mechanical advantage to higher stats.


 
Like with all labor puzzles you cannot provide 100% expert labor (sometimes its downgraded for the shop)


Well. . .in the other crafting puzzles you are generally shown what labor is required. If there is no Expert labor required on the queue, you know, prior to the puzzle receiving "official" status, whether or not your incredible would be downgraded. So if you continue the puzzle you accept that fact, and therefore it's your fault. There may be a exception with lack of PoE in the hold, but assuming it's coming from a order the escrow system prevents that. I'm not too too sure how stall reserve labor works.

 
so in forage it's spanned out in a tier format. So it would look something like this

5% Chest
35% Large Fruit
60% Small Fruit

I cannot confirm or deny this, but after all the foraging I've done and seen done, this is the only explanation I have for you.


1) Since you say puzzle standing is the primary factor, what standing do these percentages apply?

2) What do you mean a Tier format?
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AHEM.........Mentlegen?

Mentlegen on the Viridian Ocean
[Sep 25, 2013 12:58:27 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
wrs1864b

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Re: Fruit Foraging: What controls the spawning of chests? Reply to this Post
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Since you are after the 3 columns, you need to have a higher puzzle standing (let's say Master for argument's sake) to have a high chance of getting a chest to spawn. Where as an able pirate would spawn more pineapples on average.

I've already addressed my concerns for this. I would seriously doubt that three rings would include a puzzle that provides a mechanical advantage to higher stats.

Why wouldn't OOO make the forage puzzle harder the higher your standing is? They do that for many other puzzles. E.g., bilge gets more colored pieces, shipwright gets larger blocks and more gold, sailing gets more platforms, etc.
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Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent.
[Sep 25, 2013 2:00:28 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Twittly

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Re: Fruit Foraging: What controls the spawning of chests? Reply to this Post
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5% seems high for tier 3 chests. I would say more like 1%.

My estimate would be around:

Tier 1 60%
Tier 2 39%
Tier 3 1%
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~Twittly~ on "Sage" "Emerald" Ocean
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[Sep 25, 2013 2:09:26 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Ninty64



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Re: Fruit Foraging: What controls the spawning of chests? Reply to this Post
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I am convinced that for Foraging Expeditions, the larger chests are given the people on board with the highest ratings in Foraging.

Other than that, I've never really noticed your ranking or performance matter.
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Ninty-East - Meridian
Ninty - Cerulean (retired)
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by Ninty64 at Sep 25, 2013 2:48:00 PM]
[Sep 25, 2013 2:47:14 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
JJAPS2



Joined: May 28, 2006
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Re: Fruit Foraging: What controls the spawning of chests? Reply to this Post
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Since you are after the 3 columns, you need to have a higher puzzle standing (let's say Master for argument's sake) to have a high chance of getting a chest to spawn. Where as an able pirate would spawn more pineapples on average.

I've already addressed my concerns for this. I would seriously doubt that three rings would include a puzzle that provides a mechanical advantage to higher stats.

Why wouldn't OOO make the forage puzzle harder the higher your standing is? They do that for many other puzzles. E.g., bilge gets more colored pieces, shipwright gets larger blocks and more gold, sailing gets more platforms, etc.


AFAIK, this isn't based on standing, but rather the number of stars that the puzzle starts with (AKA the so-called "level") I always thought this was calculated separate from one's Standing.

This was the reasoning behind the asterisk in the OP, assuming they got through the "tutorial", the puzzle should be the same.
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AHEM.........Mentlegen?

Mentlegen on the Viridian Ocean
[Sep 25, 2013 2:50:56 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
wrs1864b

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Re: Fruit Foraging: What controls the spawning of chests? Reply to this Post
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Why wouldn't OOO make the forage puzzle harder the higher your standing is? They do that for many other puzzles. E.g., bilge gets more colored pieces, shipwright gets larger blocks and more gold, sailing gets more platforms, etc.


AFAIK, this isn't based on standing, but rather the number of stars that the puzzle starts with (AKA the so-called "level") I always thought this was calculated separate from one's Standing.

Not all puzzles have star levels and your starting star level and your standing end up being very closely related. They are probably both based off of an internal score, so saying "it is based on your standing" is not 100% accurate, but close enough for this discussion.

 
My estimate would be around:

Tier 1 60%
Tier 2 39%
Tier 3 1%

I would say it is closer to;

Tier 1 66%
Tier 2 33%
Tier 3 1%
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Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent.
[Sep 25, 2013 3:23:13 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
JJAPS2



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Re: Fruit Foraging: What controls the spawning of chests? Reply to this Post
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Not all puzzles have star levels and your starting star level and your standing end up being very closely related. They are probably both based off of an internal score, so saying "it is based on your standing" is not 100% accurate, but close enough for this discussion.


1) Yes, not all puzzles have star levels, but Foraging does.
2) The disadvantage for foraging, at least according to Duty Reports, appears to only last for the first few bananas. Due to the (AFAIK) large bonuses for combos, having a single chest for board 1 is kind of a killer. Once you get to 3-4, it's much easier to achieve Excellent/Incredible.

 


 
My estimate would be around:

Tier 1 60%
Tier 2 39%
Tier 3 1%

I would say it is closer to;

Tier 1 66%
Tier 2 33%
Tier 3 1%


This is all well and good. . .but my primary question isn't what the rate is, but rather what causes the rate to be what it is. Is it supposed to be a static value (AKA probability is the same regardless of circumstances,) or is it based on something, like standing or DR results?

It feels like everything I've seen thus far is seriously hinting that the actual Foraging DR, and therefore the standing for such, is practically useless. . .especially with how OOO have "dealt" with the puzzle scoring. I mean, the community has found the "Foraging Bug" a long time ago. It's still in the game, and apparently hasn't been confirmed or denied by the developers. Why, then, would OOO not say a single word on this, or fix the bug? Perhaps. . .and this is complete speculation on my part. . .it's because the developers know that the scoring isn't important, and therefore they're focusing on more important issues than fixing the scoring for a puzzle in which the scoring isn't important?
----------------------------------------
AHEM.........Mentlegen?

Mentlegen on the Viridian Ocean
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by JJAPS2 at Oct 1, 2013 10:00:07 AM]
[Oct 1, 2013 9:59:28 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Twittly

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Re: Fruit Foraging: What controls the spawning of chests? Reply to this Post
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Why, then, would OOO not say a single word on this, or fix the bug?

You would think the devs would say something on it, but really it is not surprising they haven't. There are many many things that people want a confirmation from the devs, but never get it.

Also, is it true that this forage bug has never been mentioned? I thought I remember it once being mentioned by a dev...
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[Oct 1, 2013 1:33:21 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Belthazar451

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Re: Fruit Foraging: What controls the spawning of chests? Reply to this Post
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JJAPS2 wrote: 
This is all well and good. . .but my primary question isn't what the rate is, but rather what causes the rate to be what it is. Is it supposed to be a static value (AKA probability is the same regardless of circumstances,) or is it based on something, like standing or DR results?

We did a fair bit of testing back when the puzzle first came out. Given the low probability of getting the three-column chests, it'd probably require a far larger sample size than we could produce for absolute confidence, but we did get fairly sure. Basically, what we determined was that standing, experience and performance appear to have no effect on the ratio of chests (aside from the learning-mode limitation that specifically prevents the big chests from appearing at all when you're only just playing the puzzle for the very first time).
[Oct 1, 2013 2:01:24 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
xelto

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Re: Fruit Foraging: What controls the spawning of chests? Reply to this Post
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JJAPS2 wrote: 
This is all well and good. . .but my primary question isn't what the rate is, but rather what causes the rate to be what it is. Is it supposed to be a static value (AKA probability is the same regardless of circumstances,) or is it based on something, like standing or DR results?

We did a fair bit of testing back when the puzzle first came out. Given the low probability of getting the three-column chests, it'd probably require a far larger sample size than we could produce for absolute confidence, but we did get fairly sure. Basically, what we determined was that standing, experience and performance appear to have no effect on the ratio of chests (aside from the learning-mode limitation that specifically prevents the big chests from appearing at all when you're only just playing the puzzle for the very first time).

Not only that, but the 66%/33%/1% ratio seems to be reasonably constant, no matter who's jobbing for you.
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[Oct 1, 2013 2:10:43 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
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