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Forums » List all forums » Forum: Piratical Parley and Politics » Thread: Changes in shops/stalls since the ocean mergers |
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Thread Status: Normal Total posts in this thread: 16 |
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wrs1864b
Joined: Apr 10, 2006 Posts: 6337 Status: Offline |
I dug up some stats on the number of shops/stalls before and after the merger and I thought others might be interested in the results. I found it interesting to see which oceans faired better and which islands had the most shops built/dust. All this data is based on information for the YARRG website and *not* from hand counts of every ocean. The latter is a huge amount more work and I don't have info from the pre-merger state, so this is the best I can do. The YARRG data will only list a store if it is buying or selling *something* on the dockside market, so thing like tailor stalls being used as a huge wardrobe often don't show up. On the other hand, those kinds of stores rarely have any economic impact, so it is probably better to not count them. Also, I don't go through the effort to figure out what the type of each shop is, so things like the palace/market count as a "shop". I have also only listed medium/large islands. Lastly, the "Min Assets" column should probably be ignored or at least taken with a huge grain of salt. What I do is figure out the absolute minimum a store has in its coffers by looking at what the store is buying. I also look at what the store is offering to sell and value those items at a "reasonable market value" to get a minimum value of the store's hold. The actual store coffers/hold is often much much larger than what I can prove, these are just absolute minimums. On the other hand, people tend to run their stores the same way, so if minimum provable assets of their stores change, that can tell you something, just not very much. Edit: I've added back in islands that begin with 'T" *blush* Hunter ---------------------------------------- Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent. ---------------------------------------- [Edit 3 times, last edit by wrs1864b at Jun 9, 2013 3:37:43 PM] |
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Shinito
Joined: Jan 3, 2006 Posts: 588 Status: Offline |
At what point were the before and after snapshots taken? ---------------------------------------- Thorkill on |
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wrs1864b
Joined: Apr 10, 2006 Posts: 6337 Status: Offline |
The "before" is the last set of uploads that the YARRG website had before the merger, so mostly around late Jan 2012, but some island data is as old as Nov 2011. As of a couple of months ago, you could still download YARRG's databases for the old oceansss. The "after" is copies of the YARRG databases that I downloaded yesterday, so you can get exact dates for the islands via the website. Some of the "after" data is pretty old, but I'm too lazy to go update all islands on all oceans. Sorry, I meant to add that info to the OP, but spaced. Thanks for pointing that out. ---------------------------------------- Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent. |
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marundel
Joined: Jan 7, 2007 Posts: 2955 Status: Offline |
Hmmm... missing both Tigerleaf Mountain and Tinga on the Cerulean lists... and I know that both have dockside buy offers posted/ ---------------------------------------- Pizzahutpete on the Cerulean Ocean Prince, Super Awesomeness SO, Boochin' Drunks Pizzahutpete everywhere, thanks to the merge |
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Shinito
Joined: Jan 3, 2006 Posts: 588 Status: Offline |
Using PPAT I made some statistics: On Jan 2012 the average population* of Hunter and Sage was ~770 (320 and 450 respectively) and as of Jun 2013 the population of Emerald was standing at ~500. This indicates a ~35% decrease in the population. Meanwhile the stats indicate only a 7.1% decrease in stalls/shoppes. The population of Viridian and Malachite on Jan 2012 was ~640 (570 and 70) and as of Jun 2013 Meridians population was ~450 indicating a ~27% decrease in population. The decrease in stalls/shoppes is 14.41%. Cobalt and Midnight population was ~210 (100 and 110) as of Jan 2012 and Cerulean 140 as of Jun 2013 with ~33% decrease in population. Stall/shoppe decrease of 13.38%. In the end stats are: Emerald: Population: ~35% decrease since merge Stalls/shoppes: 7.1% decrease since merge Meridian: Population: ~30% decrease since merge Stalls/shoppes: 14.41% decrease since merge Cerulean: Population: ~33% decrease since merge Stalls/shoppes: 13.38% decrease since merge Conclusions: The three oceans seem to show very different decreases in populations and industry remaining. Emerald seems to have an extremely stable industry that is highly resistant to population drops especially with the Sage half suffering almost no drop in stalls/shoppes. Without ever playing on Emerald I would guess that most of the stalls/shoppes are owned by the same players since the merge. Meridian seems to have suffered a rather significant decrease in industry compared to the population while at the same time suffering a slightly lesser population drop than Emerald and I cannot thing of a good reason for why. Cerulean seems to have suffered the same fate as Meridian despite having a smaller community and an easier entry cost for stalls. Anyway feel free to point out statistical errors ask questions of try to reason the difference between the population and stall drops on different oceans. *Interpreting PPAT numbers is pretty hard so I am at most providing slightly inaccurate numbers ---------------------------------------- Thorkill on |
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wrs1864b
Joined: Apr 10, 2006 Posts: 6337 Status: Offline |
For Viridian (and Malachite), I deleted a "Total" line at the bottom of an intermediate step out by hand. For the rest, automatically deleted all lines that began with 'T", thus deleting Terra, TLM, Tinga, etc. D'oh! *sigh*. I have automated things a little more and edited the original. This didn't change the percentages dramatically. Hunter should have been 21.1% but was 21.8% Cobalt should have been 26.2% but was 28.3% Midnight should have been 8.9% but was 7.4% Let me know what other stupid things I did. ;-) ---------------------------------------- Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent. ---------------------------------------- [Edit 1 times, last edit by wrs1864b at Jun 9, 2013 3:36:42 PM] |
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mari_
Joined: May 18, 2005 Posts: 2481 Status: Online |
Are you including shoppes and stalls in your data? Interesting that you are stating there are no SY on Park... mine has been there since pre-merge and is still running quite happily thank you. ---------------------------------------- Calamarie - now also in Obsidian flavour! Dignity - Emerald "Always remember... Rumours are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots." The Shadow is in my very core ;) |
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Winklecat
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The stats for scrimshaw are out of whack. Probably because a lot of the ship yards don't buy or sell dockside unless the price of wood cooperates. Very interesting stats though. Thanks for publishing it. ---------------------------------------- Winklecat SO of The Bootleggers on Emerald Royal and occasional monarch of The End |
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wrs1864b
Joined: Apr 10, 2006 Posts: 6337 Status: Offline |
in the OP I wrote: "Also, I don't go through the effort to figure out what the type each shop is, so things like the palace/market count as a "shop"." So, yes, your SY shop is listed as a shop.
Scrimshaw has a huge number of shops, judging by the names, a lot of them look like SYs. (Others like "Stark Industries" are much less clear. ;-) Maybe after 4 years, it is time to actually take the effort to try and figure out what type each shop is, there sure are a lot of them now a days. hmmm... If I did, I'm not sure if i should lump shops in with stalls or list them separately. ---------------------------------------- Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent. |
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Shinito
Joined: Jan 3, 2006 Posts: 588 Status: Offline |
Is it feasible to get a list of stall owners before the merge and as of now since it would be interesting to look at how they fared in terms of quitting the game compared to the average player and what percentage of the stalls are owned by long standing players. ---------------------------------------- Thorkill on |
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wrs1864b
Joined: Apr 10, 2006 Posts: 6337 Status: Offline |
See: http://schlitt.net/yohoho/stall_list_Cerulean.txt http://schlitt.net/yohoho/stall_list_Cobalt.txt http://schlitt.net/yohoho/stall_list_Emerald.txt http://schlitt.net/yohoho/stall_list_Hunter.txt http://schlitt.net/yohoho/stall_list_Ice.txt http://schlitt.net/yohoho/stall_list_Malachite.txt http://schlitt.net/yohoho/stall_list_Meridian.txt http://schlitt.net/yohoho/stall_list_Midnight.txt http://schlitt.net/yohoho/stall_list_Sage.txt http://schlitt.net/yohoho/stall_list_Viridian.txt Let me know if I made any mistakes or this isn't what you wanted... ---------------------------------------- Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent. |
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Shinito
Joined: Jan 3, 2006 Posts: 588 Status: Offline |
Thanks for the lists. Here's some semi-accurate data I managed to get out of it: MERIDIAN Stall owners before the merge: 953 Stall owners after the merge: 724 Started a stall before the merge: 392(54%) Started a stall after the merge: 332(45%) EMERALD Stall owners before the merge: 908 Stall owners after the merge: 767 Started a stall before the merge: 404(52%) Started a stall after the merge: 363(47%) CERULEAN Stall owners before the merge: 716 Stall owners after the merge: 571 Started a stall before the merge: 413(72%) Started a stall after the merge: 158(27%) It appears that since the merge nearly half of the stall owners on doubloon oceans have closed shop which is ~15% higher than the percentage of people who quit the game outright. I wonder why since the upkeep for most stalls is pretty negligible. I kinda want to run some kind of survey to find that out. Ceruleans economy seems to be run by mostly the same people since the merge which is pretty understandable considering the lack of influx of new players. I really wish that OOO would provide some APIs to mine Y!PP economics data since virtual economies are pretty fun to study. ---------------------------------------- Thorkill on |
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TexasBeesh
Joined: Oct 14, 2005 Posts: 1754 Status: Offline |
I wonder how many of these stalls shut down due to the removal of no spawn 30 min before reboot. I know a lot of people relied on this. Was that before or after the merge? ---------------------------------------- Seatexan - on the Midnight side of Cerulean LOW RACK PRICES AT DRESSED TO KILL - NAMATH Always looking for Pollack Sloops! |
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marundel
Joined: Jan 7, 2007 Posts: 2955 Status: Offline |
One thing the data doesn't reveal is the number of shops/stalls that are not actually producing anything... the so-called "trophies"; nor does it reveal the number that are on auto-pilot (the owner and/or managers haven't logged in for months or years, but the coffers have sufficient funds to continue operations.) The data that Algol pulled is the result of dockside buy/sell offers; but I suspect there are many more shops/stalls that are using solely self-supplied (1/1/1) labor, that are unmonitored, or that are augmented by income from other sources being fed into the coffers. I am a very active player. I own 12 shops, a number of stalls, and I manage several more. Some of the stalls I manage are owned by people who haven't logged on in more than 3 years... but I keep them going because they are useful or because I would feel a sense of remorse if those friends logged in to find their stalls dusted after entrusting me to look after them. I offer fairly decent wages in most of my shops... although that is hurting rather than helping. While I have many employees, I find it next to impossible to compete for sales against the 1/1/1 shops or those who don't care about profit because they are augmenting from other income sources. That's not a complaint - merely an observation. The end result is that I don't have as many sales as it takes to keep those who labor in my shops happy. The bottom line is that most of my shops are operating at less than 20% efficiency - this meaning that they are either not producing anything 75% of the time, or that they are producing product for dockside sales but are not able to sell 75% of what they produce within a reasonable time. This was not the case pre-merger, where my shops were running at greater than 50% efficiency and I had trouble keeping the reserve labor full. So, the statistics show an interesting picture of the decline of populations relative to the decline of shops... but really show no indication of whether or not the remaining shops are contributing/sustainable on merit or if they are simply "there". ---------------------------------------- Pizzahutpete on the Cerulean Ocean Prince, Super Awesomeness SO, Boochin' Drunks Pizzahutpete everywhere, thanks to the merge |
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Shinito
Joined: Jan 3, 2006 Posts: 588 Status: Offline |
It was a march update so it got fixed after the merge. ---------------------------------------- Thorkill on |
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Belthazar451
Joined: Sep 17, 2007 Posts: 3561 Status: Offline |
Cerulean (or at least Midnight) has always been far more stable in terms of building changes than the doubloon oceans. When I was keeping the wiki's island articles up-to-date on a regular basis, I'd find that shoppes would get built and dusted in a matter of months - sometimes even weeks - on the doubloon oceans, but the same buildings are still standing after years on Midnight. It's why I stopped bothering updating the island articles - by the time I finished one round of all the oceans, it'd already be outdated... |
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