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Provovative

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I I actually think its very immoral that a feature of the game can be bought for real life money and sold on for ingame cash.

You'll see pretty much every other game on the Internet prohibiting real life/ingame trades and yet in puzzle pirates its activity encourage under the name doubloons.

Granted, the dub ocean players have the comeback "well subscription players have access to a whole lot more of the game then free players", but it doesnt really matter how many subscriptions you buy, it doesn't effect you ingame experience.

It sickens me that an island can be bought by the highest bidder of real life cash.
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[May 31, 2013 12:31:50 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Jezzebel

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I I actually think its very immoral that a feature of the game can be bought for real life money and sold on for ingame cash.

You'll see pretty much every other game on the Internet prohibiting real life/ingame trades and yet in puzzle pirates its activity encourage under the name doubloons.

Granted, the dub ocean players have the comeback "well subscription players have access to a whole lot more of the game then free players", but it doesnt really matter how many subscriptions you buy, it doesn't effect you ingame experience.

It sickens me that an island can be bought by the highest bidder of real life cash.


That's called the micro-transaction model, and many many other ostensibly FTP games do it because it works. Guild Wars 2 does it, pretty much anything on Facebook does it.
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EmpressTamar

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Many online games are pay to win. I've played a lot of them where a premium currency exists, and in all cases it gives the buyer an advantage over free players. Sometimes premium currency is "gifted" to other players in exchange for a service or ingame money. Strictly speaking it's illegal, but players are often willing to risk it.

The doubloon exchange allows players to exchange real life cash for ingame money legally and support OOO at the same time. Do you expect them to pay employees and manage server costs just to host a game for us to play without any compensation? That's not how a business works.

If people didn't have the ability to buy doubloons and exchange them for poe it would just encourage under-the-table purchases. Would that be any better?

And granted, buying doubloons with real money is cheaper and less hassle than earning it through ingame activities. However, there are a lot of ways to make large amounts of money within the game. It's not like the doubloon exchange spawns poe. Any time you exchange a doubloon for poe, the poe comes from a player that earned it.
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[Jun 1, 2013 9:44:37 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
wrs1864b

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You'll see pretty much every other game on the Internet prohibiting real life/ingame trades and yet in puzzle pirates its activity encourage under the name doubloons.

Most games, including YPP, prohibit trading real money for in-game items outside the game. The dub exchange makes it OK because it helps the game and OOO.

If I pay you $100 for 1M PoE outside the game, you get $100 and I get the PoE and OOO gets nothing but the hassles of dealing with complaints when things go bad.

If I buy $100 worth of dubs and sell them on the exchange, OOO gets the $100, I get the PoE and other players get to play for free. There are fewer complaints that OOO has to deal with because you can't easily cheat people.

 
but it doesnt really matter how many subscriptions you buy, it doesn't effect you ingame experience.

You can make quite a bit of PoE via labor alts/foraging. Yes, you can make more PoE via the dub exchange, but PoE on sub oceans is worth more. On sub oceans, with $10 you can get a one month subscription. You can easily get 20PoE/hr in labor, which turns into about 28k PoE in a month. With that PoE, you can easily buy two sloops and have enough left over to stock them.

On dub oceans, $10 will get you 42 dubs. With that, two sloops will eat away at 40 dubs in delivery fees, leaving just 2 dubs to sell on the exchange, which is no where near enough PoE to buy a single sloop, let alone two and stock.


 
It sickens me that an island can be bought by the highest bidder of real life cash.

People who "buy" islands tend to lose them very quickly and as a side effect let many other people play for free. Yeah, I wish it couldn't be done, but overall, it is a huge win for the game.
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[Jun 1, 2013 10:12:53 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
RonenOsden

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There really isn't anything else like it out there.


I've been playing EVE online since 2011 and only log on Y!pp once in a blue moon to see if any of my old hearties are on.

EVE has a fully player driven economy, (space)ships, conquerable space, and a great community.

If you're here for the puzzles, then nothing about Y!pp needs to change. If you want a vibrant community (the core of an MMO), I highly recommend EVE.

https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=6f18348e-05e6-4d78-9f95-e6ab13c464ce&action=buddy

21 day free trial on the above link.


Eve is epic fun, but über expensive. I'm here because I don't have to pay a dime unless I want to.


EVE-Online FTW!

Its only expensive if you aren't able to self-sustain by grinding a few missions a month.

Ive been playing EVE since 2008, and PP since 2005, Honestly if both were to go under and I had to choose one to fight for. It would be EVE.

As for PP losing players, nothing can be done. The few and faithful wont be able to keep it alive, thus PP will be dead within a year or two.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by RonenOsden at Jun 1, 2013 10:18:10 AM]
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5thousand

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EVE-Online FTW!

Its only expensive if you aren't able to self-sustain by grinding a few missions a month.

Ive been playing EVE since 2008, and PP since 2005, Honestly if both were to go under and I had to choose one to fight for. It would be EVE.

As for PP losing players, nothing can be done. The few and faithful wont be able to keep it alive, thus PP will be dead within a year or two.


Words of encouragement right there. [sarcasm]
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[Jun 1, 2013 10:21:57 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
ngamerocks

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I I actually think its very immoral that a feature of the game can be bought for real life money and sold on for ingame cash.

You'll see pretty much every other game on the Internet prohibiting real life/ingame trades and yet in puzzle pirates its activity encourage under the name doubloons.

Granted, the dub ocean players have the comeback "well subscription players have access to a whole lot more of the game then free players", but it doesnt really matter how many subscriptions you buy, it doesn't effect you ingame experience.

It sickens me that an island can be bought by the highest bidder of real life cash.


That's called the micro-transaction model, and many many other ostensibly FTP games do it because it works. Guild Wars 2 does it, pretty much anything on Facebook does it.


Problem with the model: in PP there's not enough free to play content and people now, yet OOO continues nickeling and diming players. the solution: get more players. stop the pay to win model, and make it more like tf2, for example.

Also there's a morality issue. Paying to get ahead is always a fact in PP. a guy has a war brig? He paid using real life cash. There's no success stories or even doubt in my mind. In Facebook games, the top players might just play all the time, maybe they paid for it maybe they didnt. Who cares? In PP every successful person paid for their position. See the difference?
[Jun 1, 2013 11:10:03 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Provovative

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Im guessing you are all doubloon ocean people, you must be since you are defending it.

Dont understand your point. You are saying it helps 000 pay bills. Granted, I cannot disagree with that, there is no getting around that point.

What about the subscription ocean, level playing field for everyone.
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[Jun 2, 2013 4:06:16 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
wrs1864b

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Im guessing you are all doubloon ocean people, you must be since you are defending it.

I play mostly on sub oceans, so does Redjenny.

 
What about the subscription ocean, level playing field for everyone.

As I point out, sub oceans also have a "pay to get ahead" aspect, just not as strong.

I'm too lazy to dig it up, but someone posted a good article about how paying to get ahead really isn't so bad, as long as the advantage isn't so large that people can't over come it. In real life, people pay huge amounts for fancier golf clubs, or running shoes, or whatever, but people don't really mind since skill dominates. Just like a skilled bicyclist can use a walmart-special bike to beat an out-of-shape lump on a $5000 bike, an ult sword fighter can use a stick to beat able sword fighters with a falchion.

Again, people who pay to buy an island usually end up losing it quickly and in the mean time, they have paid to let lots of people play for free.

Would it be nice if everyone was on a actual level playing field? Sure, but it would be a huge pain to create and the current micro-payment model helps OOO (and most other game companies) pay the bills.
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[Jun 2, 2013 4:34:54 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
marundel

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Let's be honest here, if you can play something for free you might as well play it for free. Doub prices don't bother me, I just find that money is easier to make now to counter the higher costs. Also, and this is a key point; just because people have money doesn't mean they will throw it into a video game - particularly one they can play for free. Particularly one where people spread their ego's on the table at 5k/seg every weekend.

Granted. The free play doesn't bother me. What bothers me is free players complaining that they can't play for free well enough to support their habit - an entirely different argument than whether or not free play is available.

 
That's called the micro-transaction model, and many many other ostensibly FTP games do it because it works. Guild Wars 2 does it, pretty much anything on Facebook does it.

I beg to differ - as a player of many FB games, I have yet to find one where I can buy FBGold for real money and sell it to other players for in-game resources.
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Jezzebel

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Fair point, Pete. I pretty much only play poker on FB so I'm not really up on what they're doing. And as Algol said, I'm a long-time sub player, mostly inactive now. I've never liked the dub model, personally, for myself. I wouldn't have even bought Guild Wars 2 if Mr. Jenny hadn't gone to work for them. ;)

Ngame - it works for OOO, clearly, since they've pretty much dropped all support to the subscription model at this point. Most of their income from this game is coming from dub purchases. You may not feel that it's a good value, but plainly a lot of people do.
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[Jun 2, 2013 7:38:37 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
SevenDarks

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Also there's a morality issue. Paying to get ahead is always a fact in PP. a guy has a war brig? He paid using real life cash. There's no success stories or even doubt in my mind


Are you kidding me? Maybe it's because I've been playing for 7+ years, but I've had a decent fleet that included war brigs for the last 3 of those years, and I started buying dubs this year to keep the servers running.

The simple fact of the matter is, I can give a lot more money to keep the servers running in dubs than you can in subscriptions. I can buy $100 at a time, or more with special dispensation. Many people do.
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[Jun 3, 2013 3:28:50 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
marundel

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The simple fact of the matter is, I can give a lot more money to keep the servers running in dubs than you can in subscriptions. I can buy $100 at a time, or more with special dispensation. Many people do.

This is where I think part of the argument lies...

Keeping the servers running and the game profitable is, of course, a business concern. However, where business acumen may come up short is in the understanding of cash flow and volume vs. margin.

For instance, when I ran a Pizza Hut, I got asked all the time how we could make a profit selling an all you can eat lunch buffet for under $5. The answer was simple - I could put 30 or 40 pizzas on the bar with a big bowl of salad and a couple trays of pasta for about $100. Two hundred people could eat their fill at $5 a piece, and I made $900 profit. I could also have made $900 profit by selling full-price lunch combos at $15 a pop to 60 people... but none of those 60 people would have thought they were getting a "good deal" and they probably wouldn't have come back as often. That means it would have cost me more in advertising and marketing to get 60 people in at full price than it did to get 200 people in at buffet prices.

So, let's look at the statement... you can buy $100 worth of doubs at the same time I buy a $4.16 subscription. Now, you might use those doubs to deliver in-game items or pick up badges... and you might put some on the doub exchange. The players buying them on the exchange are "free" players. Let's say for the sake of argument that you use 40 of your doubs and put the rest on the exchange - 9 players purchase those exchange doubs with PoE. You now have 10 players playing for an average of $10 each. That's the same income that OOO would get if those same 10 players purchased a $9.95 monthly subscription. Same number of players, same income, same cashflow... but that average $10 a month per person just isn't attracting that many people and apparently not retaining them... so more money has to be spent on advertising and marketing to keep up the population. In addition, the higher PoE cost of doubs on the exchange cause some disgruntlement... so maybe not as many doubloons are exchanging as in the past.

Compare that to the $4.16 a month subscription for unlimited play (with the long-term discount applied.) For the same $100, that means 24 people could play - and OOO would have the exact same dollar amount at the end of the month. Ah - but it takes 2 years to get to the LTPD you say - Yes. So, implement a subscription exchange on Cerulean... odds are a month's sub time will be correspondingly half the cost of 42 doubloons on the doubloon exchange, since the cash cost of the sub is half the cost of 42 doubloons. I believe we could reasonably assume that retaining players (and even recruiting new ones) would be the same cost for 10 doubloon players as it would be for 24 subscription players if the sub exchange was implemented... and as we all know, more players in the game is more fun than fewer players in the game (further reducing the need for marketing as more word-of-mouth kicked in.)

So, in summary... the doubloon model is a way for OOO to make more money in the short run, but a longer view of volume over margin would likely benefit the game as a whole while retaining the income to OOO.
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SevenDarks

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You're not incorrect, but that doesn't make you not wrong.

"It" doesn't work because I am already 7 years invested in doubloons and Emerald. Even if I could exchange for a subscription, I wouldn't move to a sub ocean, because I'd have no assets. I have lots of assets on Emerald that I have spent lots of dubs on - most of them before I bought any more than needed to keep my account up.

I'd have to be able to move all my assets, and that's a very hairy problem.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by SevenDarks at Jun 4, 2013 2:30:39 AM]
[Jun 4, 2013 2:30:15 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Provovative

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This single quote is why everyone elses argument is invalid.

 
For instance, when I ran a Pizza Hut.

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kusje

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EVE-Online FTW!

Its only expensive if you aren't able to self-sustain by grinding a few missions a month.

Ive been playing EVE since 2008, and PP since 2005, Honestly if both were to go under and I had to choose one to fight for. It would be EVE.

As for PP losing players, nothing can be done. The few and faithful wont be able to keep it alive, thus PP will be dead within a year or two.


A little off topic here but I'll probably try Eve online soon.

Are there any Singaporean players there?
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[Jun 4, 2013 7:00:33 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
marundel

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"It" doesn't work because I am already 7 years invested in doubloons and Emerald. Even if I could exchange for a subscription, I wouldn't move to a sub ocean, because I'd have no assets. I have lots of assets on Emerald that I have spent lots of dubs on - most of them before I bought any more than needed to keep my account up.

I'd have to be able to move all my assets, and that's a very hairy problem.

You have just hit on the EXACT same argument that every sub player makes whenever anyone suggests doing away with the sub model and moving everyone to doubloon oceans. :)
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wrb03

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You have just hit on the EXACT same argument that every sub player makes whenever anyone suggests doing away with the sub model and moving everyone to doubloon oceans. :)


I think what would be easiest and best is to create a third ocean that everyone has to join, no choices. scrap the current dub and sub oceans and all pirates will have to adopt the new model. Pirates autotransfer all ships, poe, stats, and other transferable stuff, while things that couldnt be transfered would have to be accounted for in some other way, perhaps an estimated value of what the shops would sell for if you had sold them to another player in the bazaar or something.

Someone is going to say dont hurry and lets wait and see how the ipad/android affects the game. Thats fine, but eventually it makes sense I believe to do this as one ocean regardless. If it means puzzle pirates 2 then im cool with that, but I think it would be great for the player base for everyone to get together.

About Eve, meh, i couldn't get into it. Tried the trial, boring. Not enough puzzling..^_^
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by wrb03 at Jun 4, 2013 3:21:52 PM]
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Vireyda

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I think what would be easiest and best is to create a third ocean that everyone has to join, no choices. scrap the current dub and sub oceans and all pirates will have to adopt the new model. Pirates autotransfer all ships, poe, stats, and other transferable stuff, while things that couldnt be transfered would have to be accounted for in some other way, perhaps an estimated value of what the shops would sell for if you had sold them to another player in the bazaar or something.

Someone is going to say dont hurry and lets wait and see how the ipad/android affects the game. Thats fine, but eventually it makes sense I believe to do this as one ocean regardless. If it means puzzle pirates 2 then im cool with that, but I think it would be great for the player base for everyone to get together.

About Eve, meh, i couldn't get into it. Tried the trial, boring. Not enough puzzling..^_^


What model would this third ocean operate under then?
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cmdrzoom

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It sickens me that an island can be bought by the highest bidder of real life cash.


If ye look at how it actually goes, I think ye'll find that who originally paid real cash for the doubloons matters little; instead, islands are bought by the best poker players. :p

On the thread topic: I started playing in Azure beta, ten years ago next month. I think the current population might actually be lower than it was then. I won't deny that my own interest and activity has run hot and cold over the years. The state of the oceans now is a sad thing to me, and from time to time I've wished they'd just shut it all down and grant me some closure, so I wouldn't keep scratchin' at it... selfish of me, eh?
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by cmdrzoom at Jun 4, 2013 11:16:45 PM]
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Preciousjewl

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Strider said
 
I don't play, and I rarely read the forums anymore... but I can almost guarantee releasing YPP onto tablets will turn out exactly how the steam release did.

I agree.
Nothing has fundamentally changed for a beginner so why expect a different outcome.
 
You'll see a spike in activity for the first month or so, and then slowly but surely the population will drop off to where it is now, with maybe a couple hundred more players spread across all the oceans. It's a temporary fix to a long-term problem.

Agreed. Unless they implement changes to assist beginners before it goes live on tablets.
 
Last I checked, they were giving the game menu's a re-work so they're more... "modern"? That's lovely and all, but that doesn't address any of the issues with the actual game.

Agreed. But I assume they have checked out their tablet competition and are making the necessary cosmetic changes required.
 
This thread listed some of my personal gripes with the game, but I'm sure if everybody sat down and wrote out a list of the things that were just plain broken or illogical, there'd be a very long list of things to fix to improve the overall quality of the game.

I dont agree with everything you have there... but thing is, they don't have to fix everyone's problems for this tablet release, just their target market's problems. I assume their target market for the tablet release is new-comers.
 
Anywho, nice to see you all again. Hopefully the door won't hit my [booty] on the way out this time!

It was really nice to see you too. I miss your smhs! Take care. :)

cheers
PJ
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paaddy

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I dont think anything will chance. Too much elitism out there ;)
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PracticalM

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I I actually think its very immoral that a feature of the game can be bought for real life money and sold on for ingame cash.


I disagree. Accumulating POE either takes time or buying doubloons and selling them. Either a player is spending time or out of game currency. Both are valid currencies. If you only allow for time, then the players who have invested the most time and then continue to invest time become increasingly harder to catch. Paying with out of game currency allows newer players to equalize against long time players who have spent a lot of game time.
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I've been away for about 3 years, but logged back in last week, and was suprised at all the changes. I hated SMH's, but i really like the haunted seas, imperiasl outposts and other expeditions.

The reason i stopped playing, and this has got even worse, not improved, is the gradual demise of jobbers. My favourite thing to do was pillage and PvP. Like someone else said here, it used to be easy to fill a brig pillage in 10-20mins max, and have good jobbers. Now its tough to fill a sloop, and the players are all near novice/able, so even if you manage to gun/bnav yourself and win, the payouts are awful, and that's what takes the fun out of the game for me. I loved wart brig pillages, but i havnt even attempted to try one since i came back, as filling a sloop was hard enough.

Making PoE from good pillages, is a real buzz, and if i was able to fill a ship more easily and pillage, i'd have a real reason to keep playing, as that was my only way to pay to enter blockades. Which is another let down.

I think jobber pay should be capped at something reaonable that most pirates could afford to fill at least a brig.
if OOO could offer a subsidy, or some other kind of sought after stuff to give to blockade jobbers, and capped pay at 1k a seg max, maybe more people would thiunk they have a shot, and will pillage or whatever for the PoE to do it. Blockade pay has killed the game dead. Its ridiculous paying 5k a segment. Who can afford to fill a frig every round at that price?

OOO need to make the game more accesible to the people who don't buy huge ammount of dubs. You took foraging away as a means of making money and have replaced it with nothing easy enough for the average pirate to get his/her teeth stuck into.

I'm like another dude on this thread who said he is longing for a reason that makes him think, i got to start playing this game again. It could be done. If OOO could get rid of all the nonsense of blockade pay and in my opinion, SMH should go to, as they are a big reason there are no jobbers for pillages. So something needs to be done.

Either cap blockade pay and add dev awarded prizes for jobbers who come, and/or, preferably and, make pillage payouts higher to encourage more people to pillage. It's like the best, original core parts of the game have been sidelined for these silly monster nonsense things. That's why near all the old school players, including myself, quit. Give us a reason to come back, and i'm sure many will. (the ipad release won't achieve that if you ask me), just moving a dying patient to a different hospital room.

Sort it out OOO. Make pillages and blockades more manageable and fun again. If that means more bots available on all ships, then so be it. I'd take out a war brig or frig if i could actually work it with bots, which in turn would give you more time to get some jobbers onboard, instead of waiting for a few, leaving port and half of them just jump off and you're out there with an understaffed ship of bots and a couple of master/renoweds if you're lucky.
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[Jun 27, 2013 10:49:01 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Vireyda

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I actually really enjoy blockades and SMH. I enjoy pillaging too, but I like the variety available between the different voyage types. I'd be really disappointed to see blockades and SMH eliminated.

I do agree, that it would be good to see an increase in pillaging pay outs and availability of bots to make pillaging just as attractive and accessible as the other voyage types. It can be frustrating as an average rated pirate to

Regarding blockade pay capping:
If I'm not mistaken in my history (and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong), blockade pay was developed because of player behavior. Flags/Crews were paying their jobbers manually, which is why the quartermaster third-party app was developed. The devs eventually incorporated the functionality of blockade pay. Even if blockade pay was capped, who's to say that the paying flag/crew won't just offer a pay bonus of some sort and just go back to using quartermaster to pay out those bonuses and circumvent the cap?
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Vireyda
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[Jun 27, 2013 12:35:17 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
okcorall

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I see your point about blockade pay aye. IKt's such a pain though. It was fine when people were using QM and paying 200 a segemt, but why they put a 9999 per segment limit when they brought in their own means of paying jobbers i don't know. It's ridiculously high, and almost encouraging people to pay silly ammounts. If they had capped it lower to start, perhaps people would of got used to that limit and that would of been the norm.

SMH i still think ruined pillaging. Pirates pillage, not SMH. Being able to have multiple ships on the board at these SMH just chews up all the jobbers and leaves virtually nobody to come and pillage. That's what made me get so bored i stopped logging in.

I am enjoying the expeditions and other stuff, as you can do these while on a pillage, so it adds an extra bit of fun to the voyage, and some nice rewards for the crew.

I miss this game and want to really enjoy it like i used to. Not sure if that's possible in the long term if things don't change abit, but i am enjoying going out when i can get enough people to crew the ship.
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[Jun 27, 2013 4:33:06 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
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