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Forums » List all forums » Forum: Shore Leave » Thread: ROMS: (DC)XV -- GAME OVER - TOWN WINS |
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Thread Status: Normal Total posts in this thread: 2964
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smileo
Joined: Aug 28, 2006 Posts: 1635 Status: Offline |
This baffles me. you talk about how we need the information from Day 1 votes so we need to lynch someone. What information do we get from your vote that you could not just state in a post? You say your vote is a statement, but what if a bandwagon followed? would you leave your vote in the mix adding weight to my potential fall? My point is that you seem more interested in studying the votecount than actually finding rogues. Playing the odds game. A policy vote on the first person to take a particular metastance is just plain roulette. Is that a better way of playing Day 1? I'm not sure your method bears fruit. Im not convinced you're seeking fruit. FoS will be back shortly ---------------------------------------- 'Tis not true, that I are psychologically challenged I prefers the term "Mentally Hilarious" Smiley Could very well be a rogue. |
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DementedDuck
Joined: Mar 31, 2006 Posts: 3153 Status: Offline |
I took a quick look at Mrbriney first because I wasn't wild about the gut vote.
I'm not comfortable with people voting for reasons they know and admit are weak so early in the game. Later on, sure, that's more understandable. But Day 1? I don't think that's okay, personally. As far as the whole "she reminded me of myself as a rogue" argument, I don't think that holds any water. It's an argument one could apply to you but not to anyone else. These past behaviour/rogue behaviour arguments shouldn't be combined, i.e. "you do this as a rogue" is fine, as is "this is a generally roguey thing to do" but "someone else does this as a rogue" is not a valid argument, IMO. I'd like to know what your stance on voting and abstaining is because it'll help me feel more or less comfortable with the idea of a vote with reasons you admit are weak. Also, I don't think it counts as a gut vote if you can define the reasons behind it. That doesn't affect my view on the matter, I'm just throwing it out there. Pressure votes: I'm not a massive fan of them, because I absolutely fail to post anything but defensive posts when I am being pressured and, here's a surprise, that puts even more pressure on me! I understand that some people really are flying under the radar and need to be poked, but you need to learn to recognise when someone is flying low and when someone is just very busy because, speaking from experience, it feels unfair to be suspected because you have barnacle to do. There is a mosquito in my room and I'm very much at risk of being bitten. Again. >:[ Master's being a bit weird and kind of not reading brilliantly ("I really, really don't like the way you're handling some things, notably the above and how you said you didn't like pressure votes while having a pressure vote on Phoe.") but I don't personally think that means he's a rogue. He just plays that way and I can say that without feeling mean because I also fail to read quite often. I'm wary of falling into the easy lynch trap again, so I'm watchlisting Mrbriney for now. ---------------------------------------- Evilduck/Superduck. Emerald, Cerulean, and that other one. Now in Obsidian flavour. I record puzzles. |
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DementedDuck
Joined: Mar 31, 2006 Posts: 3153 Status: Offline |
Oh, and Furare:  ---------------------------------------- Evilduck/Superduck. Emerald, Cerulean, and that other one. Now in Obsidian flavour. I record puzzles. |
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Lotsofgoats
Joined: Apr 4, 2005 Posts: 10163 Status: Offline |
Not that I agree with voting for "weak" reasons either, but I feel like this is reversed. Voting should theoretically be more well-reasoned the further we go into the game, being that people have a lot more to go on by then. ---------------------------------------- I am Lotsofgoats and I approve this message. |
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DementedDuck
Joined: Mar 31, 2006 Posts: 3153 Status: Offline |
I meant it more like voting for the sake of getting a lynch when you have "nothing better to go on" is better later on in the game than it is at this point. It's more understandable to be willing to vote for someone you have no read on when there's nobody you think is suspicious, especially if the alternative is letting the town lynch someone you specifically think may be innocent. ---------------------------------------- Evilduck/Superduck. Emerald, Cerulean, and that other one. Now in Obsidian flavour. I record puzzles. |
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Yasmi6
Joined: Aug 14, 2010 Posts: 1101 Status: Offline |
DD wrote:
I absolutely feel the same way here. Though there has been plenty of "action" in day one I dont feel there is enough to biuld a case on. ---------------------------------------- Yasmi on Meridian Yasmi/Ayani on all oceans Captain of Lilith's Perfume Princess of Imperial Coalition (ex-Queen of Devils Advocates) Avatar by Cattrin Better to reign in Hell, than to serve in Heaven... |
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smileo
Joined: Aug 28, 2006 Posts: 1635 Status: Offline |
I do have an alternative to offer, I wish Id thought of it before. We should all talk back and forth to one another, challenge one another, raise eyebrows, ask questions, and point fingers. Take down notes of anything you find suspicious and when you think you have found a rogue, vote for them. Im not suggesting a change in how we play, but moreso in the necessity to vote even without a real target. Day 1 discussion is pivotal to getting off the block on the right foot. The information we get from that IS useable but on its own it lacks substance. We dont get anywhere by using the information we DO get the way that we have been in the habit of doing. Rather than leap on the first thing said that doesnt sit right, notch it in your notepad but dont be so hasty with the vote, thats what my problem is, you need more information than one questionable action that could have any number of variable reasons. trends and patterns are far more reliable than isolated mistakes. Use the system, watchlist, FOS and if someone really stands out as a potential rogue, then vote. I see too many instavotes because people seem to think it as an absolute. The extra day for every 2 lynches is not a reason to abstain, but it lessens the damage of a missed lynch. The day we gain could be invaluable later on when we have much more information however we have to find the balance. What im saying is Talk a lot Gather suspicion Goats Share your FOS lists and watchlists with the town Vote when you think you have found a potential rogue. If you dont think you have a strong arguement, dont feel you need to see someone lynched to appease the kill hungries. Sleep for now, but more tomorrow. My abstain stands for now. ---------------------------------------- 'Tis not true, that I are psychologically challenged I prefers the term "Mentally Hilarious" Smiley Could very well be a rogue. |
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taelac
Joined: Sep 17, 2005 Posts: 3762 Status: Offline |
Is anyone else vaguely amused that we ended up having the abstain/don't abstain argument anyway? No? Okay, just me, then... ---------------------------------------- ~Taelac ROMS XVII:Vanilla Filler Dead Thread |
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Nalanthi
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For the record, I have only ever played scum games in person before. But some of them were played on an extended day night cycle while at camp. ---------------------------------------- Nalanthi - A Blatant PvPer, War Monger and Officer of the Falcon's Fury. -Midnight (Retired) Tamman - Head of a Merchant Empire, and Strategist of Black Plague -Viridian (Retired) Nalanthi - Mercenary and scalawag. -Malachite |
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Luvessy
Joined: Dec 1, 2003 Posts: 2666 Status: Offline |
Good evenin' I see that there were a few questions raised since I was last speaking, so I reckon I should start with these. Mr. Nalanthi, you be saying that you have a mighty hard time understanding my meaning. I ask if there be something specific that you are wonderin' about, as I do try to be pretty straight forward with what I'm sayin'. Let me know what it is that is troublin' ya and I'll do my best to help you out. Do try that reading aloud advice that was offered. Or just slow down and enjoy a nice lemonade while you think it over. Ms. Lassie, I do agree that those folk hiding in the shadows need a watching, but my problem is that I'm not seeing as how you came to your list. You say it's from your notes, but I reckon a list of "no impression" would need to come from the player list. And, yes, I am troubled that it left off folk like myself and Searmin and some others, quiet all the same. For the time being, I'm right curious to watch what you might be up to. Mr. Master, I hear you that names get twisted up in one's head - I sometimes struggle myself. But I am curious how it is that you were messing up Ms. Prosperity and me, as I'd been quiet for a bit. Just makes me think that you likely had something on your mind to cause that mix-up. There's that vote confusion earlier, too, so if nothing else it's probly fair to say you're being a bit sloppy. Don't know what I make of that. Ms. Randomact, my thinking wasn't that you're the most suspicious of all the people talking about Ms. Phoenyx (or Ms. Phoe herself) per se, but it's that of Phoenyx and yourself, well, I reckon that calling out her question as something suspicious is itself something right notable. You see, I figure that on face value, an innocent is more likely to be interested in how the night actions work, as the innocents are more likely to be working alone while them rogue-folk likely have others they can count out. So, if that's the case, why then it's two things doing when you point it out - one is bringing a potential roleholder/item-holder up to the surface and attention for scrutiny; the second is potentially setting up a potential roleholder/item-holder for a lynching. So I just say this - just because something isn't a good idea for an innocent to be doing, why that don't mean than an innocent won't be doing that very thing.
This right here is the thing I'm saying that innocent folk ought not be saying. The innocents should be out hunting for them rogue-folk and them rogue-folk ought to stay at home all day wearing easily spotted hats (but I reckon it's more likely they be trying to figure out how to get the rest of us kicking that there bucket.) Now, we could go off arguing that if any of us spots something like that, well, the rogue-folk will too, but I'd rather avoid helping them out, ya? One more thing to Misters Quitex and JM- Are the abstain votes counting to the 50%? I read over how to vote a few times and I'm not sure whether this is a rule or if it's just an assumption that some folk have. So, that's where my thoughts are. I don't have much conclusive and I don't know that I have someone who strikes me a rogue just yet. It does strike me that Ms. Yasmi's last thoughts are really saying a whole lot. Ms. Yasmi commented on Mrbriney before but left that non-conclusive. I'm not sure just what Mr. AhoyLindsay is seeing about Ms. Jokerina but I don't reckon I see non-committal as too conclusive just yet. Ms. Furare's vote I aren't agreeing with none, but the lady and I have been arguing over this no lynch question for years, so I don't know that there's much for me to be saying to her in that campaign. I don't reckon I'm much bothered by a single gut vote that gets a whole lot of attention but not real feet. Problem with gut votes is that you can't really argue against 'em and they don't really get others looking that away. Well, suppertime calls. Happy hunting, y'all. ---------------------------------------- --Mistymate (Avatar by Sancha.) |
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RogueQuitex
Joined: May 2, 2012 Posts: 132 Status: Offline |
Abstain votes are, actually, votes. They count towards the 50%. ---------------------------------------- Co-Moderating ROMS DCXV with Rogue_JM (ROMS XV: DC) I'm full of the evilz. BANZORZ! |
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Lotsofgoats
Joined: Apr 4, 2005 Posts: 10163 Status: Offline |
I dunno, I'm more caught up in the "do as I say, not as I do" lesson in there >_> ---------------------------------------- I am Lotsofgoats and I approve this message. |
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lyaka
Joined: Apr 6, 2005 Posts: 1078 Status: Offline |
::rolls eyes:: Not 'no u'. I was pointing out the contradiction in your words. I also point out that the parallel is not exact, as you do go on to expand further, and your argument is not entirely gut. The point is that none of us are exempt from "gut". We all have feelings, to borrow a phrase. The difference is how well we dress those feelings up with arguments. Oh, good, it's time to argue with Tae. It's not a ROMS game until I argue with Tae. [/noreally]
Look at that again. I am not disregarding the rest of the post. I go so far as to mention the rest of his post AND give it credit for being about non-gut-related stuff. I then go on to explain that I am specifically citing the fact that gut-related portion of his post occurs first. Not only, just first. And that I find that significant. The fact that the gut part is mentioned first is in no way invalidated by the very next sentence, unless the next sentence is somehow capable of time-traveling to make itself the first sentence after the fact in some crazy way. [/a joke]
This is a fair point, but I've seen people dodge that sort of hitching before. I continue to think the whole interaction merits watchfulness. ------------------------ Oooh, I've been voted! The ROMS game has officially begun :) It's fun to trace my evolution as a player among this community. In the early days, I was voted for being too persuasive, such as the time of the infamous doubel lynch. Then later, I was voted for being too aggressive and vocal, such as in the times when Sasha and I were having regular knock-down drag-out fights in forum threads. These days, I'm being voted for being... wait for it...
Oh dear, really? Well, at least the above should counter some of that.
Well, I'm not going back to the Lyaka who took this game too personally, got hurt, had major tartfests with other longtime players, and eventually stormed out of the community for a three-year hiatus to get her head on straight. Sorry. I realize that you haven't played with me since those days, but I respectfully submit that it's been quite a long time, and I would like to think I have experienced some measure of personal growth. ------------------------ #Vote: Abstain I haven't logged enough time in the thread to make a coherent decision as to whom to vote. However, there have been a lot of posts, and a lot of those posts have been meat. I don't find it improbable that enough suspicion has accrued on one person to make them worth voting, and I firmly believe that the town cannot win if the town does not lynch, so I will raise my hand and be counted. ----------------------------------------
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NotJaret
Joined: Mar 9, 2012 Posts: 246 Status: Offline |
#vote dwizzles Lil jmt Lil gut Lil lack of posting On my phone, son for lack of wall of text :( ---------------------------------------- Jaret of |
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NotJaret
Joined: Mar 9, 2012 Posts: 246 Status: Offline |
Wow, auto correct stinks, mind that last bit it was supposed to say sorry for lack of wall of text ---------------------------------------- Jaret of |
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JMRUDNICK
Joined: Aug 3, 2008 Posts: 173 Status: Offline |
Well it's not valid either... it's not bold. ---------------------------------------- JeanneMarie of Obsidian Formerly of Meridian Captain of Lion's Roar Princess of Placeholder |
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phaedra6
Joined: May 21, 2005 Posts: 161 Status: Offline |
Hey, hey, I was just summarizing points that have been made long before I turned up, and adding my own opinion on the issue. All that stuff's been said already, or at least directly hinted at. I don't think there was any original and new content in that sentence, so please don't make it look like I did something awful and silly. ---------------------------------------- Disappear Formerly and occasionally lurking around as Phaedra SO of False Pretense
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taelac
Joined: Sep 17, 2005 Posts: 3762 Status: Offline |
Happy to oblige.
The rest of the post means that the first sentence wasn't a gut part at all -- it was an introduction for the very not-gut based rest of the post. It could have come at the end and been a conclusion based on the presented evidence instead of an introduction, but it is in no way separate from the rest of the paragraph it opens. It's "this is off because of this stuff" not "this is off and this other stuff." Unrelated, I'm not sure what to make of NotJaret's vote on Dwizzles. I think I'd just like to hear more from that quarter overall. Do we have a wiki, yet? ---------------------------------------- ~Taelac ROMS XVII:Vanilla Filler Dead Thread |
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taelac
Joined: Sep 17, 2005 Posts: 3762 Status: Offline |
Apparently not...I'll sketch one in. ---------------------------------------- ~Taelac ROMS XVII:Vanilla Filler Dead Thread |
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AhoyLindsay
Joined: Sep 9, 2005 Posts: 3063 Status: Offline |
Here's the thing with Jokerina. It's not that she's noncommital (on suspicions, not necessarily on meta) or that she doesn't want to vote yet, it's that the early phrases I pointed out seemed to be intentionally those things.
Miss Luvessy, I must say your recent mannerisms of speakin' remind me a fair bit of some cowgirl from out West, and for that reason I was thinkin' it'd be a right nice rhyme if we were to call you Luvessy Jessie. ---------------------------------------- Castawayjoe of the Midnight Ocean. To err is human, but to arr is pirate. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Catharsis on Cobalt and Malachite. |
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taelac
Joined: Sep 17, 2005 Posts: 3762 Status: Offline |
Wiki. It's also in my signature now. We're about 10 hours to deadline. Off to tally votes. ---------------------------------------- ~Taelac ROMS XVII:Vanilla Filler Dead Thread |
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taelac
Joined: Sep 17, 2005 Posts: 3762 Status: Offline |
Okay, wiki's up to date. Smileo, Firebolt, Kotetsu, Riku, and Lyaka have one vote each, and Abstain has two. I have a couple of minor suspicions, but nothing that really feels like a reason to vote, yet. See y'all on the flip side. ---------------------------------------- ~Taelac ROMS XVII:Vanilla Filler Dead Thread |
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Talisker
Joined: Jul 24, 2003 Posts: 11261 Status: Offline |
Been travelling today and haven't had a chance to read most of todays posts through well. One thing that struck me reading initially was Smiley going retaliatory. He seems to have watchlisted me after I posted about him, he FoS'd Furare after her vote. Watchlisting here. Likewise Master.
There was a point Friday where I felt like he was pretty much straight out inventing stuff, from a pretty clear misinterpretation of MrB's "real life excuses" statement to the whole "pressure vote" thing. Phoe is still riding high at low FoS.
This was weird to me, it seemed like trying hard to generate some reason for questioning. "I'm going to vote for whomever first votes abstain!" "Well why didn't you vote for these people who didn't vote abstain?" He later riffs on this some and elaborates, but the foundation of a lot of it seems based on that basic exchange. He the says she seems innocent
And watchlists. It strikes me as leaving the door open for later. So I'm watchlisting. As of now, I remain amused by AL. FoS: Phoe Watch: Smiley, Master, Nalanthi. #vote:Phoenyxstar ---------------------------------------- Leif The Forums
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Setsusa
Joined: Dec 29, 2007 Posts: 3819 Status: Offline |
No, I was saying that you also fall into the group of people who are playing in a game after a lengthy hiatus and could be considered in the subset that Marinated provided. Noted that you were left out, but I don't think it really says anything about Marinated other than "he forgot someone". Since I've only played since DBF, where Lyaka said basically "Leif, you're a rogue, and Nalanthi thinks so too", and that's all I've seen of you - I don't consider that as you playing, therefore you have had a lengthy hiatus from what I know. I actually think you and Lyaka fighting to the death in a jelly pit is more likely than you being sock puppeted by her. Re: Leif: Good to hear that bacon time is sacred. Re: Master - It was random order, but yeah, bacon -> master is my thought process. ---------------------------------------- Cremate on Emerald. Motou on Meridian. Avatar by Elfeesh. |
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Bunnylaroo
Joined: Jan 4, 2008 Posts: 898 Status: Offline |
Ok so this is the third time today I've tried to sit down and post, hopefully I won't be interrupted this round. They say the third time's a charm... What is disturbing me the most thus far is Furare's vote. I just can't wrap my head around the fact that you picked a policy prior to the game starting that you intend to stick with to prove a point, regardless of what is going on in the thread. Surely we should be voting the people we're suspicious of, not the ones who are the first to do something we don't particularly like. I understand the benefit of having information from lynches, especially in light of the way that the town stagnated after the succession of missed lynches in High Security. I just don't think lynching based on policy rather than suspicion is going to help the town win. I'm disturbed by this, not just because I don't agree with the strategy, but also because it's something that comes off as being very pro-town, i.e. "stamping out harmful/undesirable attitudes so we can settle down to the business of catching rogues", while actually not contributing to the business of catching rogues. You're not gunning for rogues, you're gunning for whoever abstains first. If I came out and said, "I decided, prior to the game starting, that I would vote for the first player who forgets to attribute a quote, because the town needs to lynch and we've got to start somewhere, and I find unattributed quotes irritating," I imagine that everyone playing would jump down my throat for having an arbitrary, unhelpful voting strategy. Trouble is, I don't see how "vote for the first abstainer" is any less arbitrary or any more helpful. That said, it's obviously an issue Furare feels strongly about, so I could be misinterpreting it, but I'm going to go with a watchlist there. In other news: I think Luv brought this up already, but I don't understand how Master confused Prosperity and Luvessy...I guess they both end in y? Watching here as well. The Tae v. Briney --> Riku v. Tae --> Goats v. Riku --> Lyaka v. Goats --> Tae v. Lyaka thing has now come full circle and I've forgotten what started you guys poking at each other to begin with... ...oh yeah the gut vote, and whether a gut vote can be justified. I think that's a lot of people entangled in one little gut vote (which he did justify, however unsatisfactorily). Interesting that the trigger which started the loop of poking (briney) is now pretty much out of the loop... Since a Watchlist is not enough to prompt a vote from me, I'm not voting. I'll maybe be back before deadline. Preview edit: And sets TOTALLY forgot to attribute a quote in the his post I just saw on preview...although he wasn't the first. Must...resist...urge...to...enact...hypocritical....policy.... ---------------------------------------- Bunnylaroo of Avatar by Pennywhistle |
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Mousebait
Joined: Oct 25, 2007 Posts: 140 Status: Offline |
I've loved reading all this discussion. What an awesome day 1! I said early on that I'd most likely be voting for someone who wasn't contributing much. Usually day 1 there isn't much to go on. I will not be voting today at all because there are no inactives, I have no strong suspicion, and thus far I'm happy with the contributions of all. I will not make it back before the deadline. May I point out that since an abstain counts toward the vote tally, those who do so are in effect voting for anyone. If you don't wish to vote for an individual and you don't want to lynch, don't vote. ---------------------------------------- "I shall try to correct errors when shown to be errors, and I shall adopt new views as fast they shall appear to be true views." -Abraham Lincoln I'm the cheese. |
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riku743
Joined: Jan 19, 2009 Posts: 1812 Status: Offline |
Yes, most people have contributed to toDay's discussion. Most. One comes to mind who hasn't at all, except to come in at the end and say "Yay, go team!". ---------------------------------------- Nil used to play Mala. Lurking on the forums. |
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Setsusa
Joined: Dec 29, 2007 Posts: 3819 Status: Offline |
Guh, sorry. ---------------------------------------- Cremate on Emerald. Motou on Meridian. Avatar by Elfeesh. |
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riku743
Joined: Jan 19, 2009 Posts: 1812 Status: Offline |
Actually, the more I think about that, the more it bothers me. You say here (6 hours into the game) that you will be most likely voting someone who is lurking or idle because you think rogues tend to be those people. It's warning them where the trap will be before you set it, which makes the trap useless. Rogues are trying to not get caught significantly more than townies are. Rogues will see you saying "Hey guys, if any of you do this, I'll vote you!". Rogues will then not do that. Townies, who aren't paying attention to not getting caught as much, will be much more likely to get caught in your trap. If you were using this solely to try and discourage lurking/idling, then it would be less of an issue. However, you seem to be trying to catch a rogue with it. That won't work. If you weren't trying to catch a rogue, and you're just trying to discourage that behaviour, maybe you should start with leading by example. FoS. ---------------------------------------- Nil used to play Mala. Lurking on the forums. |
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Yasmi6
Joined: Aug 14, 2010 Posts: 1101 Status: Offline |
Mouse said:
Yes it was an awesome day one, too bad you missed most of it.... Like Riku has already pointed out, you threated to be voting for someone iddle or lurking but then did it yourself and now you re even gonne until the end of the day. Know what? I do not like that attitude or maybe it's just my morning sickness playing up. I think Mouse is just setting up his or her own bait.... (wtf is the harsh tag here????) #vote: Mousebait ---------------------------------------- Yasmi on Meridian Yasmi/Ayani on all oceans Captain of Lilith's Perfume Princess of Imperial Coalition (ex-Queen of Devils Advocates) Avatar by Cattrin Better to reign in Hell, than to serve in Heaven... |
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