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Forums » List all forums » Forum: Piratical Parley and Politics » Thread: Riddle me this. |
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Thread Status: Normal Total posts in this thread: 267
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Sagacious
Joined: Mar 6, 2006 Posts: 4798 Status: Offline |
I believe in principles, just none of the ones raised in this thread. My argument is that the topic and general attitude of this thread has been one purely focused on bashing the rigging competition, because it gave away a familiar for Top Fine rather than Top Incred as is "the norm". It seems as if most people posting here see this an a very open-shut "mistake" (a big one at that) that needs to be exposed as a major problem. I'm saying it's not - and it doesn't - and I'm not alone. It was quite obvious that this was a once-off competition - and now it's likely that we'll never experience this kind of fun spontaneity again, because people have to spoil things. ---------------------------------------- Cerulean & Meridian - Icemeister Emerald & Obsidian - incognito! #TeamPurple ---------------------------------------- [Edit 1 times, last edit by Sagacious at May 9, 2009 3:46:10 AM] |
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BobJanova
Joined: Oct 16, 2007 Posts: 5008 Status: Offline |
Giving away a supposedly high end item for performing poorly is not 'fun spontaneity', it devalues the idea of winning a competition and the familiar itself. Have you any idea how dispiriting it is to see someone who is much (much) worse than yourself at a skilled task taking a prize worth more than you have ever seen, for performance in that task? It's like giving prizes away for sinking, or getting instad in a SF tournament. ---------------------------------------- Bobjanova on Viridian and Malachite Shops and stalls with fair and profitable wages for all: Jubilee, Napi, Chelydra Stripped/Barely Dressed (Malachite) Phantasm/Reign of Chaos (Viridian) |
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Dylan
Joined: Jul 21, 2003 Posts: 10005 Status: Offline |
Perhaps there should be an option to NOT take part in any OM run or automated activities, regardless of the imagined value of the prize gifted, much the same as it is currently possible to NOT take part in any gambling activities. Those who are whining should take a look in the mirror, then either: a) apologize, or b) petition to be banned from OM/automated activities. In addition, those who feel that their familiars have been devalued are welcome to sell them to me for 1.5k each - that's 100 Incredibles for a single Fine, a bargain at half the price! |
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Garthor
Joined: Jul 15, 2003 Posts: 815 Status: Offline |
If you were better at getting a Fine without going over than they were, then you would've won that familiar. You're not, therefore, you did not. ----------------------------------------
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SaviourS
Joined: Aug 17, 2008 Posts: 668 Status: Offline |
Why would anyone practice aiming for a fine in their whole ingame experience? What benefit? Why? ---------------------------------------- Saviour, Meridian |
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Dylan
Joined: Jul 21, 2003 Posts: 10005 Status: Offline |
Considering this was a brand-new puzzle, and the first familiar awarded for it: Why: Some people may not even have played it before, and not have managed better yet. What benefit: A familiar. Why? Why not ... apart from the inevitable whining. |
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SaviourS
Joined: Aug 17, 2008 Posts: 668 Status: Offline |
Not just for this , I remember the other egg tournies awarding better items for fines before rigging ---------------------------------------- Saviour, Meridian |
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OdorOfFrodo
Joined: Jan 6, 2007 Posts: 4426 Status: Offline |
Better is in the eye of the beholder. ---------------------------------------- Ecavatar by Ecastasy!
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Quack_688
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Another reason why winners (top incredible in a competition, or first place in a tournament) should be able to choose which prize pack they want, then second place, and so on. The current methods of "choosing" lower-level prizes (limit yourself to scoring fines, even if you're good enough to do better, or forfeit a "final four" match, even if you're good enough to win) seem rather distasteful. Wildturkey, Malachite |
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Sagacious
Joined: Mar 6, 2006 Posts: 4798 Status: Offline |
It's not difficult to not get an Incredible. It requires skill to be accurately worse in a puzzle. If you're dead set on getting a particular prize on offer - then expect to have to work towards it. Whether that be yet-another top incredible or having to throttle back and try to score top fine - you're working towards what you want. ---------------------------------------- Cerulean & Meridian - Icemeister Emerald & Obsidian - incognito! #TeamPurple |
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Garthor
Joined: Jul 15, 2003 Posts: 815 Status: Offline |
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basso
Joined: Mar 19, 2006 Posts: 3156 Status: Offline |
Are you really comparing trying to improve at puzzles, to trying to intentionally lower your performance to get lower scores at puzzles? Really? ---------------------------------------- Montage of Sage
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ssandv
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--ships in atlantis --ships in blockades --the lost opportunity to people who may only have limited time to work on their puzzling stats, and care about them. You have no business denigrating people for taking their performance seriously. People had to choose between doing their duty to their ship *after they had already signed on their pillages, blockades, etc.* or maximizing their chances at a familiar. That's a crappy choice to make people make, on principle. This isn't say, the second Black Death swordfighting tourney (I think it was the second) that was contemporaneous with Hephaestus' Forge I. Those both were known ahead of time. Is that clear enough? Because I'll shoot down everyone of your belittling, dismissive posts if that's what it takes. ---------------------------------------- Darksand (back again!) Obsidian: Peace and Quiet-Chaos Midnight (rarely): Forbidden Dreams-Dies Irae
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Roleni
Joined: Aug 28, 2003 Posts: 4171 Status: Offline |
I expect OOO to happily implement this option. Expect a bill for $49.95 per greenie, alt account or labor account that chooses it, $74.95 per subscriber and $99.95 per doublooner. ---------------------------------------- Thalatta & others Hera tells ye, "You got me so flustered by the spanking, I booched my chat response!" Hera tells ye, "Purple is the most awesome colour ever!" |
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Sagacious
Joined: Mar 6, 2006 Posts: 4798 Status: Offline |
Lol. This part was the most best. ---------------------------------------- Cerulean & Meridian - Icemeister Emerald & Obsidian - incognito! #TeamPurple ---------------------------------------- [Edit 1 times, last edit by Sagacious at May 11, 2009 1:12:38 AM] |
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pomfret
Joined: Jan 8, 2006 Posts: 2672 Status: Offline |
I never said that it is a bad thing. In fact, I think it was a heck of a lot of fun, even though sadly I wasn't online to participate when it happened. My disagreement is with people who think that familiars are so omg eleet trophies that they should, as a matter of 'principle', never be given away in lottery-like events. As for the timing and notice... well, ok, it probably can be improved. ---------------------------------------- Pomfret of Except when I am Scroogie or somebody else Stupid merger made me change my signature... ---------------------------------------- [Edit 1 times, last edit by pomfret at May 11, 2009 2:34:41 AM] |
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mads0001
Joined: Jul 22, 2006 Posts: 6594 Status: Offline |
I think most of us have accepted that they're not "omg eleet trophies". Despite some of us hoping that there was something, like familiars in days gone by, that WAS an "omg eleet trophy". I don't understand why it's such a bad concept to give that top 1% a reason to compete with each other for a status symbol. If only to break the monotony of competing with the same people for nothing more than PoE and the odd trinket on a regular basis. The timing of the event was unfortunate, the prize was something rare and extremely valuable, which I personally think shouldn't be handed out for such a mediocre achievement. Though really, that's my (and apparently a lot of other people's) perception of the value or skill that should be a prerequisite to winning some of the more rare and shiny things in the game. I don't mind particularly that I've paid 150k or more for a rare piece of furniture that some awesome carouser picked up in a tournament, I'd probably not attach the same value to something that essentially well over half of the active puzzlers on the ocean could win. The reason? Well, over half the active puzzlers on the ocean have a shot at getting it, over time they're clearly not going to be rare and shiny (think starfish/coral/trinkets) if the pattern of awarding them continues. (Before we jump on me for "pattern of awards" consider that 100% of rigging familiars have currently been handed out for fines. Yay pointless percentages! :P) ----------------------------------------
Avatar by Funny. |
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Terrify
Joined: Feb 5, 2009 Posts: 881 Status: Offline |
It's just a game, get over it! ---------------------------------------- Terrify, Hunter Ocean. Avatar by Dexla. |
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Grinfish
Joined: May 24, 2004 Posts: 7984 Status: Offline |
Isn't that why they added #1 Trophies? ---------------------------------------- Whitewyvern. Distinctly Limey. Retired, No regrets. Unretired, still No regrets. Available in Cerulean and Obsidian flavours.
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Inschato
Joined: May 31, 2006 Posts: 3537 Status: Offline |
#1 trophies the gimmickiest gimmick among a pile of gimmick. They mean nothing, and just cause people in the top 20 to be extremely careful about where and how they play their puzzle. They are no indication of who is going to win a puzzle competition, and only a slight indicator of who /might/ have a chance of winning a tournament. ---------------------------------------- -Undisputed Overlord of the Emerald Ocean |
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bronzebeard
Joined: May 5, 2004 Posts: 2373 Status: Offline |
Trophies are pretty much trinkets. Although I expect the people who don't mind familiars being devalued view those as merely trinkets too. This is why I made me Rare Items thread in Game Design. ---------------------------------------- Peglegpaul Now on Obsidian! |
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ssandv
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I really do agree with a lot of the things being said by the "omg get over it" side. The fact that a tan familiar was, to a first order approximation, lotteried, was fine with me. (see what I did there? ha ha!) Tan familiars, while not meaningless, are as likely to mean "hey I accumulated a million poe and bought a burd" as they are to mean anything else--I really think that complaining about that is tangential to the issue here. Putting ship captains and their jobbers at cross-purposes, in sinking situations, with no advance warning, is bad policy. The rest of the issues are annoyances. They annoyed me, too--quite a bit, in some cases--but they are still only annoyances. The potential to sink someone's substantial investment by putting them in circumstances entirely different than what they set out to experience is not merely an annoyance. A war frigate on a doubloon ocean costs, all told, a substantial part of what I pay for an entire year's subscription--I think people would have reason to be irritated if they suddenly found themselves short on tokens in the middle of the blockade board, and that's an entirely plausible, and forseeable, consequence of this contest. I think a bakeoff for best fine would be, well, fine. (did it again, didn't I?) It'd be kind of cute, even. Some things about it might annoy me, but hey--it's a multiplayer game. I'm not going to like everything that happens. But putting peoples' assets (Yes, they're assets. They provide positive externalities and are exchangeable for other things of comparable value) at risk, without sufficient warning, is *bad*. ---------------------------------------- Darksand (back again!) Obsidian: Peace and Quiet-Chaos Midnight (rarely): Forbidden Dreams-Dies Irae
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Sagacious
Joined: Mar 6, 2006 Posts: 4798 Status: Offline |
The issue surrounding the scheduling of this competition is not the main reason this thread was created, and therefore I don't refer any of my argument to that issue. ---------------------------------------- Cerulean & Meridian - Icemeister Emerald & Obsidian - incognito! #TeamPurple |
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ssandv
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Eh, that'll teach me. I should know better than to assume that just because the horse is already (insert distasteful metaphor about use of dead horses here) that the argument wouldn't get brought up. Again. I stand by my unjustified overreaction to your inappropriate dismissiveness though :) ---------------------------------------- Darksand (back again!) Obsidian: Peace and Quiet-Chaos Midnight (rarely): Forbidden Dreams-Dies Irae
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Prometheus
OceanMaster Joined: Mar 22, 2005 Posts: 1960 Status: Offline |
I interrupt your normal Parley programming to bring you this important announcement: Duke Nukem: Forever Finally Gone Gold! In Stores June 16th! -Pro |
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wrs1864b
Joined: Apr 10, 2006 Posts: 6337 Status: Offline |
Ha! For those that don't know, Duke Nukem Forever becomes Duke Nukem Never as Garland-based game developer 3D Realms shuts down. I think they gave up when OOO released adventure islands. ;-) ---------------------------------------- Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent. |
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Garthor
Joined: Jul 15, 2003 Posts: 815 Status: Offline |
I forget who it was, but I heard that a two people decided to play a game of Treasure Drop where the goal was to score the FEWEST points, essentially reversing the logic of the game. Were they intentionally trying to play the game poorly? No, they were intentionally trying to play the game DIFFERENTLY, with a different metric for success and failure. It still required skill, and I'm sure the winner was better at playing reverse treasure-drop than the loser. Aside from the whole TD-is-terrible thing. ----------------------------------------
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ssandv
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---------------------------------------- Darksand (back again!) Obsidian: Peace and Quiet-Chaos Midnight (rarely): Forbidden Dreams-Dies Irae
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sweetnessc
Joined: Nov 10, 2004 Posts: 16105 Status: Offline |
Much enormous luff for this one, guys. MUCH love. ---------------------------------------- My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world. ~ Jack Layton Sublime is shame. |
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Roleni
Joined: Aug 28, 2003 Posts: 4171 Status: Offline |
It's a whole lot easier to fail to make a pull happen on a rigging board than it is to "lose" at TD. The skills required to be good at one variation on TD carry over to the other variation you described. Moving a piece back and forth to keep your sails dead requires very little skill. Your analogy fails miserably. ---------------------------------------- Thalatta & others Hera tells ye, "You got me so flustered by the spanking, I booched my chat response!" Hera tells ye, "Purple is the most awesome colour ever!" |
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