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Forums » List all forums » Forum: Piratical Parley and Politics » Thread: Riddle me this. |
Thread Status: Normal Total posts in this thread: 267
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tanonev
Joined: Nov 18, 2006 Posts: 2361 Status: Offline |
I see nothing wrong with redefining the scoring function for the purposes of an event. ---------------------------------------- Tanonev on all oceans; currently exploring Meridian. Puppetar by Tilinka |
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HiimEric2001
Joined: Aug 17, 2003 Posts: 3232 Status: Offline |
I think you're talking specifically about people who "don't get" puzzles. Correct me if I'm wrong. I'll give you that there are probably some individuals who, no matter how hard they try, or who teaches them, just won't be able to do any of the puzzle types we have in this game well. However, there are ways to win familiars that aren't for puzzling. There are tons of forum events every year (plus non-puzzling in-game events). Many of these events award familiars, which I'm totally cool with. For someone to be unable to obtain a familiar by the normal goals they need to not get: every puzzle in the game, races, writing (both short and long works), drawing, sculpting, singing, parodying, saving poe, botany, baking, general expression, knitting, card making, obituary writing, etc etc etc. I don't believe these people exist. ---------------------------------------- Cire Purple Squid Brigade, Inglorious Fandango
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StuManchu
Joined: Jun 22, 2004 Posts: 7707 Status: Offline |
Yes of course there are, but this is like awarding Little Billy's high school football squad the World Cup. ---------------------------------------- Was once Stuyvesant Redistribute your wealth, or we'll redistribute your blood. |
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basso
Joined: Mar 19, 2006 Posts: 3156 Status: Offline |
Leave it to Suty to say my point better than I, and using less words. I'd say this sums up my side of things. Unrealistic rewards for trivial accomplishments sets a terrible precedent. ---------------------------------------- Montage of Sage
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Inschato
Joined: May 31, 2006 Posts: 3537 Status: Offline |
Although, sometimes there are contests where you can say, "win a party with the Stanley Cup & Mark Messier" or whatever, but you don't exactly get your name on it. There's no system in place for you to "win a day with a familiar" either, so nope. Although that might be a really cool idea.. probably not. >_> ---------------------------------------- -Undisputed Overlord of the Emerald Ocean |
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basso
Joined: Mar 19, 2006 Posts: 3156 Status: Offline |
I'd be perfectly willing to hold contests, with the prize being a day with any of my familiars. Hell I'd be willing to do that for free to reward someone for just being a decent jobber or whatever. Obviously I could never do this unless it was somehow technically coded into the game as a "loan" or something. It is too bad that people cannot be trusted. ---------------------------------------- Montage of Sage
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Sagacious
Joined: Mar 6, 2006 Posts: 4798 Status: Offline |
orly? ---------------------------------------- Cerulean & Meridian - Icemeister Emerald & Obsidian - incognito! #TeamPurple |
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basso
Joined: Mar 19, 2006 Posts: 3156 Status: Offline |
Yep :) I suppose if you don't immediately see why, we'll never agree. ---------------------------------------- Montage of Sage
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StuManchu
Joined: Jun 22, 2004 Posts: 7707 Status: Offline |
Thanks this adds a lot to the argument, although your more loquacious posts in the thread have about as much content / relevance anyway, so you're still shootin' par for the course. ---------------------------------------- Was once Stuyvesant Redistribute your wealth, or we'll redistribute your blood. |
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ssandv
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This was not the right medium for a familiar lottery. There's nothing necessarily wrong with (tan) familiar lotteries, but it was inappropriate to subvert puzzle scoring for the purpose. It is, however, also wrong to compare a tan familiar with the World Cup. A colored familiar wasn't at stake here, and there's pretty clearly a difference. ---------------------------------------- Darksand (back again!) Obsidian: Peace and Quiet-Chaos Midnight (rarely): Forbidden Dreams-Dies Irae
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StuManchu
Joined: Jun 22, 2004 Posts: 7707 Status: Offline |
So let's call it the UEFA Champion's League cup then. The difference isn't big enough to acquit the disproportionate reward. ---------------------------------------- Was once Stuyvesant Redistribute your wealth, or we'll redistribute your blood. |
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Sagacious
Joined: Mar 6, 2006 Posts: 4798 Status: Offline |
I'll withdraw my "orly?" and replace it with a "y so srs?" ---------------------------------------- Cerulean & Meridian - Icemeister Emerald & Obsidian - incognito! #TeamPurple |
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Roleni
Joined: Aug 28, 2003 Posts: 4171 Status: Offline |
Then do a lottery, not a competition. At least it's what it claims it is - a lottery - rather than pretending to be something else. ---------------------------------------- Thalatta & others Hera tells ye, "You got me so flustered by the spanking, I booched my chat response!" Hera tells ye, "Purple is the most awesome colour ever!" |
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pomfret
Joined: Jan 8, 2006 Posts: 2672 Status: Offline |
For crying out loud, stop pretending that Top Fine is not effectively a lottery. ---------------------------------------- Pomfret of Except when I am Scroogie or somebody else Stupid merger made me change my signature... |
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Jutecloth
Joined: Jun 2, 2006 Posts: 916 Status: Offline |
Except you've no hope if you play the puzzle well, Pomfret. If it had to be a lottery, I'd prefer something like having anyone with a Good or higher get a ticket and/or more tickets the better you score. ----------------------------------------
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ssandv
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---------------------------------------- Darksand (back again!) Obsidian: Peace and Quiet-Chaos Midnight (rarely): Forbidden Dreams-Dies Irae
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Garthor
Joined: Jul 15, 2003 Posts: 815 Status: Offline |
People found it fun. How, exactly, does that make it the "wrong way"? ----------------------------------------
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HiimEric2001
Joined: Aug 17, 2003 Posts: 3232 Status: Offline |
Not everybody finds it fun. If you look at the big picture it's obvious. Some games are meant to be easy, not challenging, and heavily dependent on luck. There is a market for that. Other games are meant to be hard, challenging, skill-based. This makes achievement very rewarding. There is a market for games like this. There are lots of people who want to pay money for the latter type, but don't want to pay money for the former type. If you create a culture of only achievement being rewarded then you are going to get people who gravitate towards the latter to play your game. When you add more things based on luck you lessen that culture, even if only a little bit at a time. Every time you do that you are going to slightly lessen the loyalty of the latter market. ---------------------------------------- Cire Purple Squid Brigade, Inglorious Fandango
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Grinfish
Joined: May 24, 2004 Posts: 7984 Status: Offline |
I agree that not everybody would find it fun. You can't please everyone all of the time, but you have to endeavour to please all of the people, some of the time - not as the same time is a given. What I would find of interest is the take-up of this particular contest, and whether a significant amount of people actually refused to take part in it due to it's structure, or entered via whatever means and only took up issue afterwards. I won't get this information of course, but I would find it interesting. For all we know, it may have been the most popular contest ever run. As far as the "who pays for what game type" thing, we already know the skill-based "purity" of the game has gone, and very much so. However, it's something that can be internalised. If you pride yourself on being the best, if that's what you want to be, you go out and you try to place as high as you can, regardless of what is offered as prizes. We don' need no steenkin badges. For all other enquiries, see Fiddler's signature (unless he's changed it recently). ---------------------------------------- Whitewyvern. Distinctly Limey. Retired, No regrets. Unretired, still No regrets. Available in Cerulean and Obsidian flavours.
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Gillie017
Joined: Aug 3, 2006 Posts: 1043 Status: Offline |
I was online and refused to take part in it. ---------------------------------------- If a bird looks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it's probably a Huntard . |
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Dylan
Joined: Jul 21, 2003 Posts: 10005 Status: Offline |
I wasn't online and didn't refuse to take part in it. |
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ssandv
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As I said before, it subverts the duty puzzle system. I think that was unwise, because the duty puzzle system has a purpose already. Bumper sticker form: Simultaneous oceanwide poor play should not be encouraged. It's too frustrating to too many people. ---------------------------------------- Darksand (back again!) Obsidian: Peace and Quiet-Chaos Midnight (rarely): Forbidden Dreams-Dies Irae
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Garthor
Joined: Jul 15, 2003 Posts: 815 Status: Offline |
A lot of people find carpentry unfun, too. And any sort of happening that players might be inclined to do more than what they're currently doing subverts whatever they're currently doing. I mean, this basically is just a rehash of "people are playing poker instead of pillaging with me!" ----------------------------------------
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ssandv
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Then I'm not making myself clear enough, or you're being disingenuous. Or you don't know what subvert means in this context. Poker is an alternative puzzle. That doesn't subvert anything. The un-funness of carpentry does not reward people for booching their ship. zomg! It's a straw *army*! ---------------------------------------- Darksand (back again!) Obsidian: Peace and Quiet-Chaos Midnight (rarely): Forbidden Dreams-Dies Irae
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BobJanova
Joined: Oct 16, 2007 Posts: 5008 Status: Offline |
What a f'ing joke ---------------------------------------- Bobjanova on Viridian and Malachite Shops and stalls with fair and profitable wages for all: Jubilee, Napi, Chelydra Stripped/Barely Dressed (Malachite) Phantasm/Reign of Chaos (Viridian) |
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Roleni
Joined: Aug 28, 2003 Posts: 4171 Status: Offline |
I don't have to pretend, because it's not. Some people are bad enough that they can't pull a high fine. Therefore, those people are out. Already, it's not a lottery. I don't have to bother with any other arguments or statistical elements to demonstrate how top anything isn't a pure lottery, let alone a lottery within a subset of players. ---------------------------------------- Thalatta & others Hera tells ye, "You got me so flustered by the spanking, I booched my chat response!" Hera tells ye, "Purple is the most awesome colour ever!" |
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vnork
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The obvious difference is that poker is an additional carousing game available at all times, while puzzle competitions are sporadic events. Both blockades and competitions are occasional events, and need not overlap with each other. If OOO removed poker, then ran an unannounced limited-time only pokerfest during a blockade, I would be angry as well. -Vnork |
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Sagacious
Joined: Mar 6, 2006 Posts: 4798 Status: Offline |
I'm not buying this view that giving a familiar away for Top Fine was a bad thing. Just because a seeming majority in parley say it was bad - does not mean it was. "Oooh look, he's ignoring the obvious" - no I'm not. I'm exercising my right to disagree with the majority. We've heard people bleat on about "principles" - it's all tosh. It was a light hearted competition with added humour and you guys just have to find ways to spoil it. I heartily endorse more of the same for other puzzles - because while everyone who has gotten jumped up about this particular competition never want to see it happen again - I'd rather see it happening more often. ---------------------------------------- Cerulean & Meridian - Icemeister Emerald & Obsidian - incognito! #TeamPurple |
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Yoccm
Joined: Jun 16, 2007 Posts: 549 Status: Offline |
Lottery Competition: Black octopus for Top ???, everyone would puzzle for the top place in something they don't know, excellent, incred, booched, fine, poor, or good. That way everyone has a chance, and no has to botch their scores to get. More competitions in general though would be nice, and unless OOO decides to never have a rigging competition again, then I'll join the 'this is the evil OOO does and will be the new common' camp. ---------------------------------------- Every once in a blue moon, the moon turns blue. |
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basso
Joined: Mar 19, 2006 Posts: 3156 Status: Offline |
Looking for clarification here. Do you not believe in principles at all, or do you not believe in this one in particular? Could you sum up the argument from your point of view so I can understand your disagreement? ---------------------------------------- Montage of Sage
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