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Showtime2k4



Joined: May 4, 2004
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Hey. I opened a stall on Oyster about a week ago, and it hasn't profited me at all. Too much competition, others are selling things cheaper then me, and if I sell it cheaper then them then i'll be losing money instead of making any profit. I have currently 4 employees, I run this stall on oyster island, a shipbuilding stall. I also currently have 3 jobs with good wages, but I just dont seem to make much poe, at all. I have 71,000 POE, before the stall I had about 80,000. I also am senior officer in my crew, I go out all the time and also job with other crews and I only get like 400 poe after about a couple hours.

Can SOMEONE give me any tips on how I can possibly make any good poe instead of this lame ol' Pieces O' Eight? :)

Thanks!!
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"I am matter. I am anti-matter. I can see the beginning of your past, and I can see the end of your future. I can consume time, and I shall consume your soul."
[Aug 31, 2004 3:36:31 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    GohanTheFuture80    SportKing2004 [Link]  Go to top 
Quizzical



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Figure out what the equilibrium market prices are, and push them in that direction.

Figure out what everyone else is doing, and don't do that. Find something else profitable to do.

Oh, and creating PoE sounds like counterfeiting, and you can't get away with that just by saying, "But I'm a pirate!". :p
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There is no "i" in "complex numbers".
[Aug 31, 2004 3:40:04 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
LongJohnGrey

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Showtime2k4 wrote: 
Hey. I opened a stall on Oyster ... I have currently 4 employees, ... a shipbuilding stall. I also currently have 3 jobs with good wages, but I just dont seem to make much poe, at all....

Can SOMEONE give me any tips on how I can possibly make any good poe instead of this lame ol' Pieces O' Eight? :)

Thanks!!


First, you are not competing with the island of Oyster -- you are competing with the ocean as a whole. Yes, location makes a difference. Oyster isn't really conveniently located for ships, afaik.

Second, a shipyard on an island that doesn't produce wood? Maybe you'd make more money shipping wood to other shipyards, and closing your shipyard.

Third, consider what Oyster is good at: Hemp. Oyster can make sailcloth. Sail sailcloth to other shipyards.

Fourth, a shipyard with only 4 employees isn't a very big shipyard.

Fifth, your jobs. Just because they are listed as a high poe per hour doesn't mean that they actually use a lot of it. Take a job at your own place of work. (Not that strange. If your shop is profitable, it can pay you money just as well as it pays any employee money). Look at the shop reports you get in email. Look at how many hours you are putting in at your own shop. If your other jobs were supposed to be higher wages, better pay, but you don't work there, then they are bad (underworked) shops.

Sixth, spreadsheet your shops. Employee labor cost, sailcloth, are both big expenses for ships.
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Re: Market on Scurvy Reef:
Hypnos wrote: 
I didn't realize it was such a hot forage spot until I dropped it and three pirates showed up on the island in quick succession.
And it wasn't even 9 spaces from the arrow :-).
[Aug 9, 2005 4:00:00 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Christoban

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Seventh: Just about all shipbuilding businesses are operating on the margins because of low demand. Encourage more flags to war with each other and participate in sinking blockades. You're an arms dealer in an ocean where tart poiltics dictate victory instead of massive boatsinkings.


Also, btw, there are many people who play the 'stall' portion of the game to outdo their competition, not necessarily make money. Many people forage for commods for their shop to use to cut down stocking costs, when actually they'd make more money selling the foraged goods to other stalls.


As a manager of a large shipyard on a dev controlled island, I've found that there simply isn't any money in making boats smaller than brigs. Not for us anyways. And the reason is the smalltime stall owners who are losing money but doing it anyways so they'll have something to do. We build smaller boats at cost, just to have a healthy backlog of work to pay our employees regular wages, and only really make a significant profit when an order for a brig or frig comes down the line. And we're forced to do this by the market.


We need a war to get us out of this recession. Modern times in Midnight are too civil.
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game design wrote: 
..let's see, we have thing A and thing B, with thing B currently not implemented yet. Thing A leads to people stabbing themselves in the eye, as does thing B... but since A already exists..

[Sep 1, 2004 12:46:28 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Showtime2k4



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Close my shipyard? Meaning to just get thethings like wood, hemp and sail cloth...sail it in and just sell it rather then have a stall?

Thanks.
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"I am matter. I am anti-matter. I can see the beginning of your past, and I can see the end of your future. I can consume time, and I shall consume your soul."
[Sep 1, 2004 5:14:15 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    GohanTheFuture80    SportKing2004 [Link]  Go to top 
cdalman



Joined: May 20, 2004
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Sometimes it is more profitable to sell your goods to others then try and run a small stall. If you can make 10k - 15k in a week by selling commods to others, but you only make 2k profit off of 1 sloop being sold a week . . . . then I would sell to the others. It makes more sense in the long run.

You just need to decide whether you are running a stall to make a lot of poe, or if you are running a stall because you like running a stall. Become a trader if you want to make money fast, or run the stall for a smaller profit if you truely enjoy running the stall.

In the end, it comes down to what you like to do best, and you you get the most fun out of you game time.
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Klank on Midnight
Steel Magnolias
Liberty Hull

Proud owner of the war brig Kraken's Tear

" You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be misquoted, then used against you. "
[Sep 1, 2004 5:57:51 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Showtime2k4



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Thanks cdalman, thats a good example. I havent gotten any sloop orders yet, I WAS making some poe off goods, thats it...so I see the point. But if I were to sell goods to traders, where would I get it from to begin with? I cant forage, because I live on turtle and the closest island is park, but it was taken over...so no more foraging. And if I went to like Namath, then it would take me forever to get back to oyster or whereever.

Thanks a bunch.
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"I am matter. I am anti-matter. I can see the beginning of your past, and I can see the end of your future. I can consume time, and I shall consume your soul."
[Sep 1, 2004 9:45:38 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    GohanTheFuture80    SportKing2004 [Link]  Go to top 
shagie



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Showtime2k4 wrote: 
Thanks cdalman, thats a good example. I havent gotten any sloop orders yet, I WAS making some poe off goods, thats it...so I see the point. But if I were to sell goods to traders, where would I get it from to begin with? I cant forage, because I live on turtle and the closest island is park, but it was taken over...so no more foraging. And if I went to like Namath, then it would take me forever to get back to oyster or whereever.

Thanks a bunch.


You can buy the wood at Turtle or Paypya and ship it to Oyster (though Alpha pays nice and is a shorter run) and in the meantime work for the people who enjoy losing money. Thats if you wanted to do wood runs, there are other profitable runs too that are easier in a sloop.
[Sep 1, 2004 10:00:35 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
SailinTony

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Yeah, besides, you can only carry around 76 or 78 wood on a sloop, I think, and unless the wood's buying real high, and you bought for practically nothing, that's probably not even worth the rum and time.

How do I make money? I don't. I just pray to Whitefire that he has another ?ber-pillage. I still have half of a very large chunk of poe left :)
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Long-dormant Sailintony , Midnight.
Actively Carlbert, Emerald.
[Sep 1, 2004 11:08:30 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
matiano



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In my opinion succesful trading is where the poe is. Even moving wood is profitable (I do it all the time). If you are looking for a longer but more profitable run, take your ship out to an island and forage for minerals or herbs. These take longer but if you are succesful you will be rakin in more poe.

Here's my tart session: Yes Midnight is becoming too civilized for my liking. People like poor Whitefire are getting ripped on for defnding islands that no one else is. Personaly, I think it would really be awesome if there were some rogue flags out there. A flag that just declared war on everybody and tried to sink everybody and cause as much as is possible in the game.
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Matiano (only on Cobalt and not responsible for anything a Midnight Matiano might do.)
Officer of Moonstruck Marauders
[Sep 1, 2004 12:05:33 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Showtime2k4



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I'm gonna do this...go and buy wood and hemp and so on...and find someone who will buy it for more then what I got it for....how does that sound? Because there arent any islands close by that I can go foraging for.

Lemme know how that sounds.
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"I am matter. I am anti-matter. I can see the beginning of your past, and I can see the end of your future. I can consume time, and I shall consume your soul."
[Sep 1, 2004 2:45:49 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    GohanTheFuture80    SportKing2004 [Link]  Go to top 
matiano



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No hemp. Hemp = bad buissness you would have to use a merchant galleon or something to haul enough hemp to even make a lil profit. Avoid hemp, sugar, and stone. Iron is ok but most of the time you can only get it for 1 less poe than a buying price. Wood is pretty good because 3 types of shoppes need it. Just remember: herb and mineral trading is the best. (Well kraken's blood is the best, but you can only get that pillaging).
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Matiano (only on Cobalt and not responsible for anything a Midnight Matiano might do.)
Officer of Moonstruck Marauders
[Sep 1, 2004 2:58:14 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
shagie



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The payoff realy depends upon the diffrence. Sugar can be sold at 100% - 200% marketup (I've even seen higher at times).

I've seen hemp at a 100% markup across 3 leagues at times.

Wood is often at a 75-100% markup. Often good for a return trip from a sugar or hemp run.

Stone, well, thats just a problem of trying to find anyone who is buying it, much less the markup.
[Aug 9, 2005 4:00:00 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Christoban

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Here's what I'd do, Showtime:

Buy a sloop and a cutter. Learn to singlehand both, but only take the cutter out if you've got a few mates on. Sail in circles in a populated arch and pillage - get good enough to where you don't lose except for maybe 1 out of every 5 times. When you port and restock your boat, take your earnings from the pillaging and buy lots of small volume bid tickets with the balance, instead of just banking it. Continue to sail in circles in the archipelago. Make sure you hire jobbers, because they will increase the crew cut, which goes in your pocket after resupply to help you buy bid tickets.

When you arrive at an island that you've got a filled bid ticket for, cash it in to fill your hold up, and then sail on to the next island. Don't lose a fight enroute, or you'll lose your profit margin. Sell your hold bare at the next port, buy more bid tickets, and see if you have any filled for *that* island. If you do, fill your hold back up and move on down the line.


That method works well if you don't lose a fight between islands. It breaks even if you lose 1 fight. You lose money if you lose 2 fights.


The *other* way to make money, which you will discover sooner or later, is to captain a war brig for a pillage, while being effective and conservative on your cannonshot. And if you're real good, you can do the above method with the bigger hold on the war brig. You need regular crew members though. I don't know what your crew situation is like, but once you get good at the above method, you might end up making more money by joining up with a larger crew and leaching off of their labor pool to man your brig.

Doing that will get you much better at the puzzles, and will make more money per hour than fooling with running a stall.
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game design wrote: 
..let's see, we have thing A and thing B, with thing B currently not implemented yet. Thing A leads to people stabbing themselves in the eye, as does thing B... but since A already exists..

[Sep 1, 2004 10:16:35 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Showtime2k4



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Excuse me if I sound noobie, but what EXACTLY does a bid ticket do for you? And if I get bid tickets, what should I get them for? Like certain things ex. rum, hemp, iron etc.

Sounds good, i'll go right now and get better at singlehanding a pillage...I have a sloop of my own, i'm senior officer in my crew and if I can get 150 units of wood my captain will build me my own war brig.

Also if I did that, I get rum and the scbs, but whats else should I get if I need to?
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"I am matter. I am anti-matter. I can see the beginning of your past, and I can see the end of your future. I can consume time, and I shall consume your soul."
[Sep 2, 2004 4:10:50 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    GohanTheFuture80    SportKing2004 [Link]  Go to top 
fanon



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Most islands "produce" certain commodities - for example, Turtle produces iron and wood. If the island is colonised, these commodities are distributed through the market bidding system: you place a bid, and when the commodities are created (the rate varies by commodity, island, and I think also a random factor), they're distributed among the top bids.

So, after placing a bid, you're given a bid ticket. Think of it as your receipt... while the bid fills, it sits in the market waiting for you. To claim the actual goods, you need the bid ticket. From the hold of a ship or stall/shoppe, you can "cash in" the ticket and have the goods delivered to your location.

Side note, islands only produce raw commodities. So, you can bid on iron, hemp, wood, sugar cane, madder, chalcocite, etc (at various islands). But you can't bid on any processed goods, like rum or cannonballs; those must always be bought dockside or ordered from a shoppe/stall.

With regards to war brigs... if I give him 150 wood, can I get a brig too? ;-) More seriously, war brigs are best on pillage runs, and personally I wouldn't use one for trading - it's got more hold space, but it takes a lot more people to sail and is relatively hard to get to full speed... much higher chance you'll be intercepted and put in battle, and the more battles you're in, the more likely you are to lose one.

But pillage runs on war brigs are uber-fun; I love them when I have time. Biggest difference from pillaging on a sloop or cutter is the size; often you need to micromanage the crew a little more to keep all stations at optimal, team a bit better in the swordfight... also, brigs can only move 3 a turn instead of 4 in bnav, and get two cannon shots per turn. And various other things... I'd suggest that if you do get a brig, ask your Captain or someone who's familiar with war brigs to take you out and "show you the ropes" the first run or two. (by the way, brigs use medium cannonballs, not small =) )
[Sep 2, 2004 4:44:17 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Showtime2k4



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So basically, a bid ticket is basically when you get a ticket and you redeem it to get the goods on another island? Well why cant you just buy them when myou get there instead of getting a bid ticket?
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"I am matter. I am anti-matter. I can see the beginning of your past, and I can see the end of your future. I can consume time, and I shall consume your soul."
[Sep 2, 2004 8:06:48 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    GohanTheFuture80    SportKing2004 [Link]  Go to top 
shagie



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Showtime2k4 wrote: 
So basically, a bid ticket is basically when you get a ticket and you redeem it to get the goods on another island? Well why cant you just buy them when myou get there instead of getting a bid ticket?


You can only redeem the ticket at the island that it is for. If you place the bid on turtle, you deliver the goods on turtle.

The bidding market and foraging are the only two places that create resources. Otherwise, its just shuffling resources around - and making a cannonabll consumes iron - you run out of it after a bit. So you place a bid for more iron and then deliver it.
[Sep 2, 2004 8:11:19 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
fanon



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All commodities come from somewhere, and the only way they're created is through the market (or forage) spawns.

So following the example of iron on Turtle... you could buy iron dockside, but the stall/shoppe selling you the iron had to get it from somewhere too - and eventually all commodities come from the bidding market. Now, no stall or shoppe is going to bid on something and sell it to you for less; they'd be losing money. So, bidding on the commodity yourself usually saves you money.

There are exceptions, of course - perhaps people bid for the commodity somewhere where it's cheaper, and sailed it in, etc, etc. But bidding is usually cheaper than buying dockside.
[Sep 2, 2004 8:51:11 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
54x

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Quizzical wrote: 
Figure out what the equilibrium market prices are, and push them in that direction.

Figure out what everyone else is doing, and don't do that. Find something else profitable to do.

Oh, and creating PoE sounds like counterfeiting, and you can't get away with that just by saying, "But I'm a pirate!". :p


What I think Quizzical is trying to say is that when running a stall, you shouldn't bother with always paying the most to workers, having the lowest prices, and offering the highest amount over the docks to people who would sell you goods. If you try to do that, you'll end up losing money, not making a profit.

Try and find a successful formula and then run with it, mostly ignoring what other people are doing. Only get into a price war if you believe that the price actually needs to change in the direction you've been pushing it, and that you can afford to go a lot lower than you start out at. Self-supply is cheaper than buying off other people, but you have to decide if you want to put the work in trying to get raw materials.

As LongJohnGrey mentioned, it ALSO lowers the effort to get goods, and therefore PROBABLY your prices (although not if the bids are ridiculously high) when you operate on an island that spawns some of the goods you'll need. Have a look in the local market, or at the Midnight Map thread to see what those goods are. (note that the map isn't 100% accurate, and takes a while between updates)
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Diamondblade, Cartographer, Crimson Tide.
from Midnight.
Dear sir or madam can you read my book, it took me years to write, will you take a look?
[Sep 6, 2004 7:41:49 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.mjwhitehead.com/    raasike54    secondlight5454    32987700 [Link]  Go to top 
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