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CommunismLtd

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The Planned Economy Approach

A Planned Economy is an economy not like the Capitalistic Economy of all flags on the Sage ocean. Capitalist Economies generally bring wealth and notoriety to a select few who are lucky enough to own shoppes and other parlor/government buildings on islands. On the other hand, a Planned Economy would bring wealth to the flag as a whole, not individuals.

That is why I, Communism on the Sage ocean present to you my Ideology of how PEA would work.
PEA stands for Planned Economy Approach. This plan involves four major components that I will talk about in detail, below:

*Fixed Prices.
*Shared Flag Beliefs.
*Low Taxes.
*Beautiful Islands.

Fixed Prices.
Are you tired of lucky poker players making millions of dollars, only to buy a Shipyard and under-cut your prices? With a Planned Economy, that would never happen! There would be Fixed Prices on islands running a Planned Economy. How, you may ask? Having a Planned Economy means that everything your island produces (Including the Prices) is run by the government (in this case, the flag) not individuals. Individuals still own stalls, but the shoppes, mainly shipyards are owned by the government. Meaning that most of the Gold Cloth, Black Cloth and expensive item prices would be controlled by the government, along with the prices of War Frigates. How does this help out the economy, you ask? The government having control over most of the expensive items means that the government would have a monopoly over items like War Frigates. Before I continue, I cannot stress enough how good a monopoly can be, especially in Y!PP. For those not in the lingo, a monopoly is where a group (The Flag) owns all production of a certain item, in this case, War Frigates. Having a monopoly makes fixed prices possible, making the island run smoother. Due to the monopoly over expensive items, the government would make enough revenue off of the island that..

*There would only need to be 1 of every type of shoppe placed on the island, making the island first off, not-over built like most islands and second of all, there wouldn't be a need for high taxes, as the revenue from the monopoly is already there, as the only major taxes they'd be getting is from the shoppes.

*The growth of the island would boom due to the fact that it would be a rush to live on such a low-cost island, and because of the low taxes.

That brings us too...

Shared Flag Beliefs
A Planned Economy Approach would work best if all members of the flag shared the same views, beliefs and goals. I know that's true with most flags, but it works especially well if you're aiming for a Planned Economy. Why? Here's your answer!

*To run a true Planned Economy, there will have to be a sole expresser of the flag's views, beliefs and goals for the island. The "Expresser" would be the governor of the island and owner of all of the shoppes. That is why shared beliefs is a must for a Planned Economy as there will be turmoil in the flag if people don't have the same beliefs.

*If everyone has the same belief on what the flag is aiming for, what the prices on the island should be and generally how the island is run, a Planned Economy is no doubt the best possible way your island could be run.

Low Taxes
Pirates often get the shakes when the hear the term "Tax", but not when you're running a Planned Economy! With a Planned Economy, the taxes will be low, as discussed earlier because:

*Because of the monopoly off of War Frigates the flag would be able to run a tax percent of 0%-5% if the Planned Economy is run smoothly, and not by a gang of baboons.

Why will low taxes bring? Lows taxes will bring trained (Key) merchants to the island, making its population and economy boom. I say trained merchants, because any snuffalufagus can open a stall, but it takes knowledge and training to know where to open your stall. Because your island under a Planned Economy would be the best place to open, due to the low taxes, it will bring all of the good merchants, leaving all of the bad ones trailing in the dust.

Beautiful Island
Beautification of Islands has been talked about a lot recently. No body likes over-crowded Islands, and everyone loves Beautiful ones! That's why under a Planned Economy, all of the Islands under that Economy type would be beautiful! Due to the fact that to run a Planned Economy you only need one shoppe per type, there will be loads of space left over to add charm to the island! Having a beautiful island will attract people and further add to the boom of the economy.

There is much more to add to PEA, but for now this is the general ideology for the new approach to Sage ocean. All comments, criticism and ideas are welcomed as long as you have an intelligent argument to add to the conversation.

Thanks!
Communism.
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The Planned Economy Approach
King of the flag Big Bad Wolf
Captain of the crew Capitalism Kills
Communism, Sage.
[Sep 22, 2008 6:11:41 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Reluctant

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Re: The Planned Economy Approach

Show me a planned economy that's worked in practice, not just theory, and I may buy into it.
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Maybe you'll see me around on Sage. Probably not.
Amg, Lockerz invites available. Send me a message.
[Sep 22, 2008 6:17:03 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://Tout-Efusjon.info    Larry Bunsold 25 [Link]  Go to top 
Lakimbo

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Re: The Planned Economy Approach

So you want to own an outpost.
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Howtie

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[Sep 22, 2008 6:17:14 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
CommunismLtd

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Re: The Planned Economy Approach

 
So you want to own an outpost.


One of the faults of a Planned Economy is that it generally would only work to its full extent if the island owned was a Large Island, though it is possible to work with an Outpost Island or a Medium one.

EDIT for Reluctant-

 
Show me a planned economy that's worked in practice, not just theory, and I may buy into it.


That's the thing, a Planned Economy has not yet worked in practice on Puzzle Pirates to my knowledge. In real life however it has worked to some extent in WWII when Germany wanted something produced quickly for the war, it was produced quickly. I do not believe in Planned Economies in real life however, because you can exploit the people, and force people to do something they don't truly want to do. In the game however, people do as they please, therefore that is not a fault towards PEA.
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The Planned Economy Approach
King of the flag Big Bad Wolf
Captain of the crew Capitalism Kills
Communism, Sage.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by CommunismLtd at Sep 22, 2008 6:26:41 PM]
[Sep 22, 2008 6:23:25 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Lakimbo

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Re: The Planned Economy Approach

I fail to see any incentive to helping you get your island. I can't open a shop there to make money. All the revenue from the "economy" goes to the dictator of said island. With no competition your prices are arbitrary and with no other options one would be forced to wait for your time line. Your flag would have to make or import all commods and stock for the island - but individuals wouldn't benefit personally from doing so - only the flag would. I hardly think it would last long.

Lastly - anyone could simply take your island from you any given weekend and make all your "plans" moot.
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Howtie

Eff Novo
[Sep 22, 2008 6:32:17 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
CommunismLtd

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Re: The Planned Economy Approach

 
I fail to see any incentive to helping you get your island. I can't open a shop there to make money. All the revenue from the "economy" goes to the dictator of said island. With no competition your prices are arbitrary and with no other options one would be forced to wait for your time line. Your flag would have to make or import all commods and stock for the island - but individuals wouldn't benefit personally from doing so - only the flag would. I hardly think it would last long.

Lastly - anyone could simply take your island from you any given weekend and make all your "plans" moot.


The revenue wouldn't go to the dictator, it would go the the flag as a whole, and to the people of the island through events. The other possibility for the revenue to go to is for charm towards the island, hence the island beautification.

Stalls would still be available like most large islands and because of the low taxes merchants would be attracted the island; as long as it's in a reasonable archipelago with some decent routes. We'd buy rum/cannonballs from these stalls as well as make our own. Howtie, where do you get your rum from when you blockade? You make it. Therefore I fail to see that as a fault.

But, as you put at the start of your post, you don't see any incentive to help us get an island. (You must remember that this is all theory, currently.) I do see a problem with jobber support with this theory, as helping flags wouldn't be rewarded with a shoppe. That is why I need your criticism to help me re-write and hopefully make PEA a possibility for the future. (26th of July, anyone?)
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The Planned Economy Approach
King of the flag Big Bad Wolf
Captain of the crew Capitalism Kills
Communism, Sage.
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Shanoyu

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Re: The Planned Economy Approach

What sort of fake communist are you

May 1st
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His Holiness, The Dope
[Sep 22, 2008 7:16:41 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
CommunismLtd

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Re: The Planned Economy Approach

PEA would only work with certain flags looking to achieve the same goals, and that have a high amount of trust with one another. Howtie, to use your flag as an example, I don't believe your flag would be able to utilize PEA to its fullest potential because from what I've heard, you'd rather put personal gain ahead of flag gain and island beautification.

EDIT: I like 26th of July better, but May 1st could be another influential date.
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The Planned Economy Approach
King of the flag Big Bad Wolf
Captain of the crew Capitalism Kills
Communism, Sage.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by CommunismLtd at Sep 22, 2008 7:23:01 PM]
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Burninat0r

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Re: The Planned Economy Approach

Monopolies r gud

u must believe me

power to the party of the people

peace out
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Burninator

Very retired. Not coming back.
[Sep 22, 2008 10:08:19 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
rebelrocker

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Re: The Planned Economy Approach

Just a thought, but the point about "beautification" won't wont. (on Larges at least) Have you noticed that all the larges on Sage (Barbary being the exception "for now") are already crowded with shoppes. Though, Barbary is well on it's way. There is a good handful or so of Shipyards already. Say IE loses Barbary...The new flag comes in to make shoppes to pay back expenses. Stalls are another story. They are ran out of the specific bazaar. But....Who's to say that prices at stalls will be at a fixed rate at all times. Most of Sage has rum running at 50 and cannonballs are at 13 (small) 27 (mediums) 39 (large) The exception seems to be Ibis Archipelago, where prices are a bit lower on basic commods.

I'm not an economical buff. And I barely care for the real life economy I have to endure.
I'm actually just babbling cause i'm bored...And it sounded important in my head. Hah
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Lilyjane of Sage
Venus, Illium Eternae
[Sep 22, 2008 10:14:28 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
basso

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Re: The Planned Economy Approach

Thanks for the laugh, I enjoyed reading this. I fully think this is someone who got bored in their political theory class or whatever, but I'll humor em anyways.

If stalls are allowed, how would you go about setting "fixed prices"? Or controlling the price/cost of expensive items like black or gold cloth. Also, an island with an economy like Admiral's simply would have too much demand for one shoppe of each type to handle. Does anyone realize how slowly expert labor goes through stalls?

Oh oh, also, say hypothetically everything is fixed, what types of profit margins would stalls be allowed to make? If it is too high, there will be too many stalls, if it is close to 0, why would anyone open a stall? As far as taxes go, your idea would be appealing if you could do away with the game's "base" tax rate, but sadly you cannot.
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Montage of Sage
Mads wrote: 
OK, now I'm convinced. The problem here is that you cannot understand plain English.

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Florida777



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Re: The Planned Economy Approach

Well said Monty, I was about to point out some of the same points you just made albeit I'm sure my attempt wouldn't have been as coherent as yours.

I will say your idea is actually good but unfortunately too lofty for a game that's economy is patterned after Capitalism.

I will say that I personally hate capitalism and would sign up to join such a flag if I thought it would work, but I truly don't think it would work due to what Montage mentioned above as well as man's heart is inherently evil and corruption would undoubtedly seap in at some point.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Florida777 at Sep 23, 2008 1:10:04 AM]
[Sep 23, 2008 12:56:05 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
UnluckyJack

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Re: The Planned Economy Approach

 
Planned Economy... blah blah blah


PEA = communist fantasyland

Sounds good on paper, everyone wins right?

But in the real world lets face it, people are greedy. People are always trying to out do one other by having more money or more possessions.
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Walker

 
Swords are like really big keys, but instead of unlocking doors they unlock death.


Thank you Tilinka for the Tilinkatar
[Sep 23, 2008 1:21:43 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Oceansadness

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Re: The Planned Economy Approach

I agree with Strunz (<333) in a lot of things. To start with, that Montage is wise and phrased all of that so nicely. So nicely that, even though it was complex and I know next to zero about economy, I understood it!

However, Strunz... oh hun really really you think humanhood is inherently evil and corrupt and blah blah? how little hope in life then... I do agree that PP is designed to be handled within the laws of capitalism, and that there are several things inherent to the game design that would simply make impossible such a plan to take shape successfully... not to mention how fragile it would be, just as they all have been in the real world, eventually coming down to corruption or dictatorships. However, (I expect Wazzy's cruel remark here, but I don't mind since he is forum muted), let's still hope there is good inside human hearts! Just look around you, let's say in the PP community to use an environment we both share. How many of them are nice trustful people, how many are evil and would purposely harm you?

Enough rambling. Back to work.
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Sedna in Sage. Sedna/Seawaterdrop in Emerald

If it floats, shoot at it!
[Sep 23, 2008 2:14:20 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
madmazza

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Re: The Planned Economy Approach

 
Individuals still own stalls, but the shoppes, mainly shipyards are owned by the government.


Fail.....there is a fundemental problem with this. Shoppes are already owned by all different people in many different flags. Please tell me how you would rectify this problem!
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I'm selfish, impatient, and a little insecure. I make mistakes, I am out of control, and at times hard to handle. But if you can't handle me at my worst, then you sure as hell don't deserve me at my best.
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Burninat0r

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Re: The Planned Economy Approach

 
However, Strunz... oh hun really really you think humanhood is inherently evil and corrupt and blah blah? how little hope in life then... [snip]

Just look around you, let's say in the PP community to use an environment we both share. How many of them are nice trustful people, how many are evil and would purposely harm you?

I also believe in the basic evilness of man - it's a very christian influenced view -- that without outside help men would be left to their own evil. I know that there are many times i'd love to purposefully harm certain people, and sometimes i even do. Anyone who's seen the horrible things that have happened in this world is going to have a really hard time believing in the basic goodness of man.

</soapbox>
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Burninator

Very retired. Not coming back.
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paulandkat

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Re: The Planned Economy Approach

 
*The growth of the island would boom due to the fact that it would be a rush to live on such a low-cost island, and because of the low taxes.


I may be on my own with this one, but as I am not a shoppe/stall owner, I am completely oblivious to the tax rates of each island, so my island home of choice is determined by friends and the routes I tend to use more often.

I would presume that the majority of players are like this, but as I say, it is only a presumption.

If I want to purchase an item, I can always use the ferry or whisk somewhere if I can get said item cheaper on another island.

As Darleka rightly points out, many shoppes are owned by players in different flags, how would you plan to gain control of these shoppes, which, if possible (other than buying up each shoppe) would mean you allowing them to dust (I am unsure as to how this side of things work) to fit in with your one shoppe per type for said Island. (not including bazarres)

If this is the case, the Flag would need to be wealthy in the first instance to "clear" the island and start afresh. Take Admiral for example, I don't have the exact figures to hand but you have a lot of SY's, Tailors and the like, all which would cost millions to buy from the current owners (assuming they would actually sell).

All this to start your PEA, which I would guess would take some time to actually start showing a profit if taxes are kept low. Especially when, as Montage states, you take into account the amount of labour each stall can output per hour, even when fully upgraded (I have hazarded a guess at this from my limited knowledge regarding shoppes and so on)

Furthemore, as Howtie says, anyone could come and take the island from you at any given weekend, then drop a ton of shoppes and recoup a vast amount of the PoE spent taking the island. These shoppes go for sums above and beyond what the "average" has in terms of PoE, but there are plenty of wealthy pirates out there.

I could be wrong on all of the above, but it is just my random ramblings.

Pauljr

edit to correct spelling*
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Pauljr on Sage
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by paulandkat at Sep 23, 2008 7:30:25 AM]
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SpnBobby

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Re: The Planned Economy Approach

 
 
Planned Economy... blah blah blah


PEA = communist fantasyland

Sounds good on paper, everyone wins right?

But in the real world lets face it, people are greedy. People are always trying to out do one other by having more money or more possessions.

I just knew Walker would throw his support behind this plan. lol
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Spongebobby on Emerald

Walker said
"Dear three rings, please add a mute everyone button to the game. If you do I'll take back all the mean things I've ever said to you in any of my emails, letters, bug reports, petitions."
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kusje

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Re: The Planned Economy Approach

So you're going to fund your island with the supernormal profits of your lone shipyard?

Tell me who is going to buy ships from you when I get mine from the island 3 league points away.
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Kneiss wrote: 
I have read so many philosophical books, i can't count. I have beaten my chesscomputer on the highest level several times. I have been classbest in math for several times.

[Sep 23, 2008 9:13:21 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Lakimbo

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Re: The Planned Economy Approach

Awww, without "evil" people, who would you use to make yourself feel superior? :P
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Howtie

Eff Novo
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Valscor

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Re: The Planned Economy Approach

 
Awww, without "evil" people, who would you use to make yourself feel superior? :P

The same thing I use now. Stupid People.
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Daniel Patrick Moynihan wrote: 
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.


Semi-retired but still around now and then
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[Sep 23, 2008 10:18:22 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Lotsofgoats

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Re: The Planned Economy Approach

Man this thread started with pedestals that evolved into different, moar pedestally pedestals.


The Internet - everybody is a philosopher!
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I am Lotsofgoats and I approve this message.
[Sep 23, 2008 10:24:25 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
CommunismLtd

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Re: The Planned Economy Approach

Most people are greedy. I was too, when I first started playing. That's why I want to try something new.

Labor could be a problem, maybe then the flag could create up to 3 of the more popular type of shoppes, in order to get products out quicker. The fixed prices have to do with expensive products, not every item. I used War Frigates as the example, because normal stalls can't make them (Most of these questions should be answered by yourself, I dearly hope ye all ain't that stupid). Therefore, having the only shipyard(s) on the island, the prices will be fixed. I also used expensive cloths as an example, because if you go to Admiral, you see that most of the black/gold clothes, furniture and swords are made by shoppes, not stalls.

While Howtie is right that any flag could come the next weekend, and take the island, isn't that what could happen to every flag? I wouldn't propose such a theory as this unless I had the resources to back it up.
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The Planned Economy Approach
King of the flag Big Bad Wolf
Captain of the crew Capitalism Kills
Communism, Sage.
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Valscor

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Re: The Planned Economy Approach

 
Most people are greedy. I was too, when I first started playing. That's why I want to try something new.

Labor could be a problem, maybe then the flag could create up to 3 of the more popular type of shoppes, in order to get products out quicker. The fixed prices have to do with expensive products, not every item. I used War Frigates as the example, because normal stalls can't make them (Most of these questions should be answered by yourself, I dearly hope ye all ain't that stupid). Therefore, having the only shipyard(s) on the island, the prices will be fixed. I also used expensive cloths as an example, because if you go to Admiral, you see that most of the black/gold clothes, furniture and swords are made by shoppes, not stalls.

While Howtie is right that any flag could come the next weekend, and take the island, isn't that what could happen to every flag? I wouldn't propose such a theory as this unless I had the resources to back it up.

If you really want to experiment why not start at the flag level where when joining the flag all personal property becomes community property and all pirates are at least of the SO level so as to avoid class warfare and either all royals or no royals as well. Additionally, all future earnings would need to be turned over to the flag and then redistributed so that the only possessions one could have would be what was distributed from the flag to the pirates thus making everyone equal.

If you actually tried this let me know I'd like to join with an alt that won't have any assets to contribute and certainly won't earn anything but will still get equal benefits of everyone in the group
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Daniel Patrick Moynihan wrote: 
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.


Semi-retired but still around now and then
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[Sep 23, 2008 1:37:13 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
CommunismLtd

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Re: The Planned Economy Approach

Because that would be communism and has nothing to do with the PEA. PEA would still be a democracy/monarchy as everything is still voted upon, it's just the way the island is run is different then most flags run theirs. Just because Planned Economies are usually run by Communistic countries, doesn't mean it can't be run by a Democratic country.

The Internet - Where anyone can post sarcastic, idiotic remarks!
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The Planned Economy Approach
King of the flag Big Bad Wolf
Captain of the crew Capitalism Kills
Communism, Sage.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by CommunismLtd at Sep 23, 2008 1:43:21 PM]
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pisinko

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Re: The Planned Economy Approach

Poser!
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Communism
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kenjennings

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Re: The Planned Economy Approach

How much do you guys want to bet it's just Guildmaster being a tool again?

Sorry, but Y!PP is a very similar parallel to real life as far as economic principles go. If, as you said, it won't work in real life, it won't work in a game.

1. Please stop the bolding and excessive use of Planned Economy, you sound like a Head On commercial.

2. There are no game mechanics that lead to fixed pricing and the economic tools provided are not sufficient to create the above. Besides, we already have people funding poesink stalls (price 'one-downers') with poker/pillaging/etc.

3. I'm not even going to go into the potential for abuse and self-serving nature of a flag being the sole producer and regulator of a certain good on an island, much less all goods.

4. Islands that have already been open are doomed, so to speak, and broken beyond repair with respect to your plan. It would take an enormous amount of resources (poe) to 'fix' them.
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[removed by SOPA]
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basso

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Re: The Planned Economy Approach

Fewer shops/stalls make expensive items because those items are expensive to make. Many people open up a stall without adequate funds, so they can't compete and make pricey items. Of course the more expensive the item, the better the margins that can be made on it.

Which actually brings me to my next point, stalls take an investment of personal money to start. If you take away the potential for profit by somehow regulating prices, you take also take away the incentive to produce. If no one is producing, you quickly have a dead economy.

Edit: Oh and I don't care who it is or if they are serious, this is fun :)
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Montage of Sage
Mads wrote: 
OK, now I'm convinced. The problem here is that you cannot understand plain English.

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[Edit 1 times, last edit by basso at Sep 23, 2008 2:11:16 PM]
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Pizzab

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Re: The Planned Economy Approach

I want to know if this person will really get this Pea thing started.
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FrodoB of Hunter

I use to be a hobbit, till I took a ring to the finger.
[Sep 23, 2008 2:11:16 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
CommunismLtd

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Joined: Sep 21, 2008
Posts: 23
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Re: The Planned Economy Approach

 
Poser!


My avitttarr is betta dan j00rz!!!11

This was actually meant to be a joke, but I'm growing rather fond of the idea, so it may actually follow through.
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The Planned Economy Approach
King of the flag Big Bad Wolf
Captain of the crew Capitalism Kills
Communism, Sage.
[Sep 23, 2008 2:56:08 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
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