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Jacktheblack

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[Midnight] Jacktheblack Presents: How to Battle Nav with Special Guests

After getting asked many times "how do you do that?", I have decided to get together with a few other navigators to allow people to ask questions. There will be 4 talks done over the next month. Please review your basic battle nav before coming. We will not be answering questions like "How does a whirl pool work?"

Wednesday October 19th @ 6 PM PST
Brigand Battle Nav with Bendeall
Back Room of Scallywag Syndicate Memorial on Cnossos
We will talk about the ways navigators go max-0 on brigands.

Wednesday October 26th @ 6 PM PST
PvP Battle Nav with Sweetiepiepi
Back Room of Scallywag Syndicate Memorial on Cnossos
We will talk about ways to get a favorable shot count and general pvp tactics.

Wednesday Novemeber 2nd @ 6 PM PST
Blockade Battle Nav with Rummykins
Back Room of Scallywag Syndicate Memorial on Cnossos
We will go over what you need to know about blockade nav and some of the ways to be successful with it. Please attend one of the previous sessions before coming to this.

Wednesday Novemeber 9th @ 6 PM
General Battle Nav
Back Room of Scallywag Syndicate Memorial on Cnossos
I will answer any questions about battle nav in this session on any of the above three topics.

I will be answering questions in the order that people trade request me, so please no shouting out questions during the talk.
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[Edit 3 times, last edit by Jacktheblack at Oct 17, 2005 7:38:13 PM]
[Oct 12, 2005 11:48:38 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    jacktheblackypp    samergamer [Link]  Go to top 
zim_was_here

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Re: [Midnight] Jacktheblack Presents: How to Battle Nav with Special Guests

Cool, that is really nice of you to do this. Is there any chance of you posting the Discussion on the fourum for others to see when you do?

Also if there is time will it be likley to get some time behind the wheel with you watching? And lastly are you going to try to do this on any of the dubloon oceans?
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Quintillaz has been assigned the title of Builder in Dagger Revolution.
Juliah says, "because you "erect" things.... *giggles*"

wee howdypedia

Quintillaz
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by zim_was_here at Oct 12, 2005 12:08:32 PM]
[Oct 12, 2005 12:07:05 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.geocities.com/zim_was_here    zim_was_here    zimwashere2 [Link]  Go to top 
meow123_456

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Re: [Midnight] Jacktheblack Presents: How to Battle Nav with Special Guests

More variety in times please, cant attend ANY of them :(
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[Oct 12, 2005 12:47:18 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.puzzlepirates.com/community/mvnforum/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=209719 [Link]  Go to top 
Jacktheblack

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Re: [Midnight] Jacktheblack Presents: How to Battle Nav with Special Guests

 
Cool, that is really nice of you to do this. Is there any chance of you posting the Discussion on the fourum for others to see when you do?

Also if there is time will it be likley to get some time behind the wheel with you watching? And lastly are you going to try to do this on any of the dubloon oceans?


Aye a chat log will be posted after each session.

This will only be happening on the Midnight ocean. If you happen to get on a WB that I am naving, just ask if you can watch from the Crow's Nest ;-)


 
More variety in times please, cant attend ANY of them :(


I am trying to find the best time between people on the east and west coast, I can't fit everyone in.
[Oct 12, 2005 3:42:14 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    jacktheblackypp    samergamer [Link]  Go to top 
fugli

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Re: [Midnight] Jacktheblack Presents: How to Battle Nav with Special Guests

sadly i will have to miss it, but i have a question.
what will be the focus of rummy's workshop on blocade nav. will he be focusing on a)getting sinks, or b)winning boards by getting flags? not that they are mutually exclusive, but there are people who would accuse "rockstar" navvers of doing too much a) and not enough b).

eitherway sounds interesting, looking forward to seeing the chatlogs.
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-Ephes ~ Myrmidons
-Sault ~ Art of Diplomacy

If you can't make it good, at least make it look good.
[Oct 14, 2005 6:31:19 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
DubRub



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Re: [Midnight] Jacktheblack Presents: How to Battle Nav with Special Guests

 
sadly i will have to miss it, but i have a question.
what will be the focus of rummy's workshop on blocade nav. will he be focusing on a)getting sinks, or b)winning boards by getting flags? not that they are mutually exclusive, but there are people who would accuse "rockstar" navvers of doing too much a) and not enough b).

eitherway sounds interesting, looking forward to seeing the chatlogs.


I'm no Rummy but I bet his focus is (b) since the purpose of blockade nav would be to win blockade rounds which means securing enough points. However, getting sinks is a valid tactic to gain more uncontested points (sinks within the cluster rather than sinks on ships than are not even contesting the flags). A compromise of both is needed to be a blockade navver.
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Dubbrub - The Mad Professor next door
[Oct 14, 2005 6:40:19 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
sweetnessc

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Re: [Midnight] Jacktheblack Presents: How to Battle Nav with Special Guests

I'm no Rummy either but having navved in lots of blockades with him, he isn't one of the idiots out to get sinks instead of points. Though he's perfectly capable of sinking when that's what he's sent out to do by the coordinator.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world. ~ Jack Layton

Sublime is shame.
[Oct 14, 2005 8:31:01 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Bobie

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Re: [Midnight] Jacktheblack Presents: How to Battle Nav with Special Guests

Thank god I'M no rummy, but I have to live with him in my flag EVERY DAY. I can say that he is definitely an idiot.

He's a pretty good block navver though, so listen to him. Don't let him get all uppity and full of himself, I'm hoping there will be people to put him in his place.
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Bendeall (Bo, if you know me)

Captain, Phoenicians. Related to teh BSBizzle.

Somewhat hostile, and not very helpful

http://boomytunes.serverroom.us:7660

Tune in, Rock out. Sometimes.
[Oct 14, 2005 10:37:01 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    BobieLaptop [Link]  Go to top 
kaosfere

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Re: [Midnight] Jacktheblack Presents: How to Battle Nav with Special Guests

I am a Rummy, for better or for worse, and I can say that I plan on covering both aspects of blockade nav. The good nav needs to be able to go for sinks when asked or required, but must remember to do so in the context of the overarching importance of scoring more points than the other guy.

We all get distracted by the glub at times, but I believe my comrades in arms above have adequately vouched for my own lack of certain negative rockstar tendencies. :P
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I alone have the flet!
[Oct 14, 2005 10:47:07 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.devzero.org    kaosfere    Torvalds    871887 [Link]  Go to top 
Metallus

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Re: [Midnight] Jacktheblack Presents: How to Battle Nav with Special Guests

Great stuff. Definitely going to the PvP one. :D

-Metallus
/sucks
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Metallus - SO - Ironside - Bigups Notorious Fandango!
[Oct 17, 2005 4:36:45 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://metall.us [Link]  Go to top 
sweetnessc

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Re: [Midnight] Jacktheblack Presents: How to Battle Nav with Special Guests

You're so cute.

/pinchcheeks

No, the other cheeks ;-)
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world. ~ Jack Layton

Sublime is shame.
[Oct 17, 2005 6:28:29 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
cybrpyro

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Re: [Midnight] Jacktheblack Presents: How to Battle Nav with Special Guests

Um, not being a midnighter... how do I get there? heh
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Cybrpyro on da Cobalt ocean...as well as the rest

Perilous Puppet Theater
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[Oct 19, 2005 5:16:54 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
bemis

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Re: [Midnight] Jacktheblack Presents: How to Battle Nav with Special Guests

cybrpyro wrote: 
Um, not being a midnighter... how do I get there? heh

Change oceans to midnight on the login screen, create a pirate. Delete & repeat until your home island is in Diamond, (or ask a friend jobbed over :-)
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Bemis - Senior Officer, Yarr Talk/National Pirate Radio on Cobalt
[Oct 19, 2005 5:42:17 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Drusilla

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Re: [Midnight] Jacktheblack Presents: How to Battle Nav with Special Guests

 
cybrpyro wrote: 
Um, not being a midnighter... how do I get there? heh

Change oceans to midnight on the login screen, create a pirate. Delete & repeat until your home island is in Diamond, (or ask a friend jobbed over :-)

Also, in case you either have problems with that, a reliable source indicates that chat logs will be posted after every event.
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Avast! Jesus were a leopard.
[Oct 19, 2005 5:52:30 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    drusilla_ypp    raspberryjamdeg [Link]  Go to top 
Ian_Rhodes



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Re: [Midnight] Jacktheblack Presents: How to Battle Nav with Special Guests

who won?
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Hypnos Score: 4.
[Oct 19, 2005 6:23:08 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Jacktheblack

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Re: [Midnight] Jacktheblack Presents: How to Battle Nav with Special Guests

Thank you to everyone who came tonight. Here is the requested chat log for the brigand talk:

 
[21:04:39] Jacktheblack says, "Thank you all for coming"
[21:04:56] Jacktheblack says, "This is our first of 4 talks about battle nav"
[21:05:12] Jacktheblack says, "We are going to mainly deal with brigand nav in this talk"
[21:05:27] Jacktheblack says, "With me is special guest Bendeall"
[21:05:32] Bendeall bows
[21:06:05] Jacktheblack says, "I ask that you please keep some of the basic questions for a later time"
[21:06:13] Zangor gets out notepad
[21:06:23] Mongappyton says, "questions liek what in the seven seas is bnav?"
[21:06:34] Jacktheblack says, "When we answer questions, please send me a trade request, then I will be asking you as I get the request"
[21:07:19] Bendeall says, "OK so."
[21:07:32] Bendeall says, "Since it's pretty much what I've been dealing with recently."
[21:07:49] Bendeall says, "I figure that most of you are of a sea battle level where you'll be spawning imp brigands"
[21:08:20] Bendeall says, "Of course they move different at the different difficulties, so to make this not take forever, we'll be going with those friendly Imperials."
[21:08:47] Bendeall says, "Jack can disagree with me if he feels differently"
[21:09:02] Rexelita says, "No worries, hon. We'll jes throw tomatoes."
[21:09:05] Bendeall says, "but I've found that Imperials as a whole, while very smart, also move much more logically than the other difficulties"
[21:09:07] Jacktheblack says, "Aye we will be mainly be talking about fighting sea lord and imperial brigands"
[21:09:32] Bendeall says, "with Sailors, you find much more random, out-of-nowhere behaviors than you do with the upper-level boats."
[21:10:05] Bendeall says, "Once you start fighting brigands, and pay attention to what they do, they often repeat actions again and again"
[21:10:36] Bendeall says, "and thus with practice, it generally becomes a fairly easy job to know what to do from a given situation"
[21:10:50] Bendeall says, "and get to your goal of a max / low count much faster."
[21:11:08] Your crew member Spotty has logged on.
[21:11:09] Your hearty, Spotty, has logged on.
[21:11:14] Bendeall says, "As there are a bunch of people here"
[21:11:26] Bendeall says, "it's probably easiest to at least start with questions you all may have"
[21:11:48] Bendeall says, "i don't really want to cover things that everyone already knows, just a waste of everyone's time."
[21:11:52] Spotty says, "hoy hoy"
[21:12:01] Zangor ahoys
[21:12:07] Bendeall says, "I have a collection of points to cover, but I'd like to see what yall have right now"
[21:12:22] Jacktheblack says, "Okay, so please trade request me and I will take the first few people's questions"

[21:12:38] Jacktheblack says, "Okay Fullbeard"
[21:12:55] Fullbeard says, "Does it make any difference if ye set yer moves early or at the last second?"
[21:13:16] Bendeall says, "Good question. And this is one that's debated between the top navvers."
[21:13:25] Bendeall tells you, "ok."
[21:13:44] Bendeall says, "First, an important point with upper-level brigands"
[21:14:04] Bendeall says, "I've found that you can almost NEVER get away with two consecutive LSM [Last Second Move]s"
[21:14:24] Bendeall says, "While the first will work, the second they often counter very well."
[21:14:35] Bendeall says, "That being said"
[21:14:44] Bendeall says, "I guess my answer would be "It Depends""
[21:14:54] Bendeall says, "if I'm in a situation where I might get shot"
[21:15:02] Bendeall says, "or will more than likely get shot"
[21:15:15] Looseweed mumbles something about the first instance always working, and thereafter the brigand being free to LSM you as much as *he* wants to
[21:15:19] Bendeall says, "I will LSM the brigand to get out of harm's way."
[21:15:24] Bendeall says, "exactly."
[21:15:41] Bendeall says, "If it's a situation where the brigand is far away where my first turn doesn't force me into firing range"
[21:15:48] Bendeall says, "then I do not use my LSM."
[21:16:14] Bendeall says, "The best way to think about it is that"
[21:16:22] Bendeall says, "until you damage the brigand somewhat"
[21:16:29] Bendeall says, "you only have one LSM to use. That's my general strategy."
[21:16:47] Bendeall says, "so as a whole, I would say that LSMing, while effective, only works so much."
[21:17:00] Bendeall says, "and should be used only in iffy situations."
[21:17:22] Jacktheblack says, "Aye, it currently seems the system works like this, you can do 1 or two LSMs per battle, and it takes atleast 10 turns before the "counter" resets and you can do it again"
[21:17:31] Bendeall nods.
[21:17:48] Jacktheblack says, "I personally only use LSMs when I know I will get quite a few hits on a brigand and I use that to soften them up"
[21:17:54] Bendeall says, "yep."
[21:18:03] Jacktheblack says, "Okay, Wonkots?"
[21:18:05] Wonkots says, "Do Imps that produce blood not tire? while those that don't seem to slow down later on."
[21:18:30] Bendeall says, "Are you assuming that you don't damage them, and are trying to run them out of moves?"
[21:18:40] Wonkots says, "In the beginning, yes"
[21:19:06] Bendeall says, "honestly, I've found that the higher-level boats generally don't run out of moves period."
[21:19:08] Bendeall says, "Blood or no."
[21:19:30] Bendeall says, "I've heard many rumors"
[21:19:40] Wonkots says, "Ok, It seems that some Imps slow down, while ones Ive gotten blood from are constantly full of moves"
[21:19:50] Bendeall says, "about "blood swords", where the bots have at least x many skullies"
[21:19:58] Bendeall says, "or about the speed that the boat is moving when you engage it"
[21:20:21] Bendeall says, "What kind of crew are you running when this happens?"
[21:21:00] Bendeall says, "I'm assuming that if you're pulling blood"
[21:21:06] Jacktheblack says, "Blood always comes from imperials"
[21:21:07] Wonkots says, "I had a full sloop, generally leg seabattle"
[21:21:11] Bendeall says, "it's a fairly strong crew, near-full boat."
[21:21:23] Bendeall says, "ok."
[21:21:33] Bendeall says, "In my experience"
[21:21:45] Bendeall says, "the only time where I've seen a difference with move generation for the brigands"
[21:21:54] Bendeall says, "is, for example, if i'm on a high-end blood sloop"
[21:21:59] Bendeall tells you, "i know, wrapping up."
[21:22:17] Bendeall says, "the only difference is if I engage a green sloop rather than a cutter."
[21:22:33] Bendeall says, "Smaller boats that are equivalent mights are gonna be filled with moves all the time. A real pain."
[21:22:40] Bendeall says, "As a whole though, I'd say I've never noticed a difference."
[21:22:54] Jacktheblack says, "Okay, Melanthe"
[21:23:08] Melanthe says, "This is a follow-up to the LSM question"
[21:23:22] Jacktheblack nods
[21:23:31] Melanthe says, "Sometimes I see navvers putting in all their moves at the beginning of the turn, then taking them out, only to LSM them."
[21:23:39] Melanthe says, "What's the reasoning?"
[21:23:42] Bendeall nods
[21:23:43] Bendeall says, "OK."
[21:23:48] Bendeall defers
[21:24:10] Jacktheblack says, "The reason this happens in because people are trying to figure out how the brigand will react when you put in different types of moves"
[21:24:34] Jacktheblack says, "The imperial AI actually reads what moves you have and changes what it does based on what you have"
[21:25:02] Jacktheblack says, "by changing the tokens around a naver can figure out what tokens the brigand has left and can determine what it can do with that"
[21:25:31] Bendeall tells you, "tell me when you're done so I can add a point."
[21:25:31] Jacktheblack says, "if durring the changing process you find that the brigand is short on moves you can then go for a quick LSM and put several shots into the brigand"
[21:25:51] Bendeall says, "I personally use this technique more at the end of a battle."
[21:25:59] Bendeall says, "when i'm going in for those last shots or the hook"
[21:26:08] Bendeall says, "when i get a little more risky"
[21:26:17] Bendeall says, "getting in close for the hook or pulling in right behind him."
[21:26:29] Bendeall says, "I will put in moves, just to show that i'm doing something"
[21:26:39] Bendeall says, "the brigand will then often put in his own moves"
[21:26:43] Jacktheblack says, "Aye this is no use during the begining of the battle since the brigand will be full of moves at the time"
[21:26:54] Bendeall says, "and by clearing out what I put in and showing I'm doing nothing"
[21:26:59] Looseweed mumbles something about random grapple hooks in the player's move often changing the brigand's move, so adjusting them can force the brigand to do different stuff - the stuff you want it to do
[21:27:16] Bendeall says, "I can see if he's ACTUALLY moving or if he's just shooting randomly."
[21:27:33] Bendeall says, "note, though, that he still *might* do something if he generates a move near the end of the turn"
[21:27:37] Bendeall says, "but it's not common."
[21:27:52] Nobuki says, "sweet."
[21:27:56] Jacktheblack says, "okay, Mongappyton"
[21:28:48] Jacktheblack says, "okay, Woohaa"
[21:28:57] Mongappyton says, "what do the cricles on the larger ships token spot smean?"
[21:29:00] Bendeall tells you, "monga feels stupid asking what ever the question is."
[21:29:06] Bendeall says, "OK."
[21:29:12] Bendeall says, "that's a quick answer."
[21:29:19] Mongappyton says, "yes lol"
[21:29:21] Bendeall says, "The larger ships are allowed less moves."
[21:29:32] Bendeall says, "While a sloop and a cutter get 4 moves per turn"
[21:29:32] Woohaa says, "In reference to this quote """note, though, that he still *might* do something if he generates a move near the end of the turn""" is it not true then that brigands that don't have LSM active only change their tokens when ye change yers,"
[21:29:36] Woohaa says, "even if they generate one."
[21:29:44] Bendeall says, "a brig and larger only gets 3"
[21:29:57] Bendeall says, "that circle is just showing that a move cannot be put in to that move slot."
[21:30:15] Bendeall says, "you can move it between the 4 move slots and in effect *not move* on any of the 4 turns."
[21:30:25] Mongappyton says, "all the time? because i thoguht ive seen it doen"
[21:30:37] Bendeall says, "seen... 4 moves put in?"
[21:30:42] Derelict says, "yes"
[21:30:44] Mongappyton says, "yes. im not sure though"
[21:30:44] Bendeall says, "you can shoot during the turn where you can't move."
[21:30:48] Bendeall says, "but cannot move."
[21:30:59] Mongappyton says, "ok thanks"
[21:31:02] Bendeall smiles
[21:31:02] Mongappyton laughs
[21:31:10] Bendeall scrolls for the last question
[21:31:26] Bendeall says, "Brigand LSMing."
[21:31:31] Javoch says, "the bar above a large ship turns red though, to let you know that they are shooting during their "non-move" spot"
[21:31:43] Bendeall says, "I've found that brigands can LSM you no matter when you put moves in."
[21:31:59] Bendeall says, "I know I've definitely been LSM'd pulling in close for a hook or shooting."
[21:32:03] Merkie says, "dumb question. lsm?"
[21:32:04] Sbl flag officer chats, "helloss ahaflags peoples"
[21:32:08] Jenardo says, "Last Second Move"
[21:32:09] Bendeall says, "Last Second Move"
[21:32:12] Your hearty, Annesatsu, has logged on.
[21:32:18] Merkie says, "you and your jargon"
[21:32:21] Bendeall says, "putting in your tokens at the last minute so the brigand doesn't have time to react."
[21:32:48] Woohaa says, "My question was more about brigands usin' tokens they generate halfway through a turn, even if ye don't change yer own move."
[21:32:53] Woohaa says, "I wasn't aware they did."
[21:33:19] Bendeall says, "Since I can't actually see what they put in, I can't tell you if they show guns and change. I don't know enough about the AI."
[21:33:22] Jacktheblack says, "It seems that brigands know what tokens they will generate that turn, so they can use them at the begining of the turn"
[21:33:34] Woohaa says, "Thankee Jack."
[21:33:42] Bendeall says, "I have had a brigand LSM me when i showed moves the whole turn. Not often, but it's happened."
[21:33:53] Jacktheblack says, "that means they won't suddenly get a token in the middle, but they know from the mechanics they will get it, and use it"
[21:34:06] Piepi says, "brigands definitely will use a token they generate at the end of the turn"
[21:34:08] Jacktheblack says, "But the one thing with the brigands is that they always generate tokens the same way"
[21:34:09] Bendeall says, "when i got confident near the end of battle that they had nothing else to do, I've been slammed."
[21:34:42] Jacktheblack says, "The order then generate them is the same as the autosails, S, R, L"
[21:35:24] Jacktheblack says, "Next?"
[21:35:25] Javoch says, "why is it that sometimes imps will run out of moves and are sitting ducks when they've had a lot of damage, and sometimes they'll get moves?"
[21:35:46] Jacktheblack says, "Please trade request before you ask a question"
[21:36:04] Jacktheblack says, "Otana please"
[21:36:09] Otana says, "what is the imps' main objective? are they looking to grapple as soon as they can, as seems to be the case with the lower level brigands, or do they typically want to shoot you full of holes first?"
[21:36:21] Bendeall says, "shoot shoot shoot."
[21:36:26] Otana laughs
[21:36:27] Otana says, "thanks"
[21:36:35] Bendeall says, "It's a good thing to remember"
[21:36:46] Bendeall says, "because you can often find yourself in a sort of T with the brigand"
[21:37:02] Bendeall says, "where you can bank on them shooting and not grappling."
[21:37:38] Bendeall says, "sometimes comes in handy."
[21:37:46] Bendeall tells you, "go for it."
[21:37:51] Otana says, "thank ye very much :)"
[21:37:58] Jacktheblack says, "okay, Mysterygirl?"
[21:38:17] Merkie says, "Okay...let's say...I see a green ship sailing by me. But the little attack button isnt highlighted! Is there a super secret way to still attack 'em?"
[21:38:28] Bendeall says, "if it's not navy"
[21:38:31] Mysterygirl says, "you said that they generate tokens in auto mode, but how fast?"
[21:38:38] Jacktheblack says, "Please wait till you are asked before giving the question"
[21:38:53] Derelict laughs
[21:38:55] Bendeall says, "It depends on how much damage they have."
[21:39:18] Bendeall says, "I don't know the function for how it's generated, I don't know at what level the brigands sail at."
[21:39:32] Bendeall says, "but like player boats, it's dependent on damage."
[21:39:59] Jacktheblack says, "imperial brigands will generate 3.5 moves at the begining of a SB with no damamge in them"
[21:40:06] Bendeall takes notes.
[21:40:11] Mysterygirl says, "k"
[21:40:14] Mysterygirl says, "Thank ye"
[21:40:15] Jacktheblack says, "as you put more damage in them they will generate less tokens per turn"
[21:40:36] Jacktheblack says, "they usually start to slow down after you have put in about 1/5 of max SFing damage in them"
[21:40:54] Jacktheblack says, "at that point that start generating about 2.5 tokens a turn"
[21:41:23] Jacktheblack says, "as you get to the max point they will be generating the minium amount of moves, which is 1 token every 3 turns"
[21:41:52] Jacktheblack says, "the moves to damage chart would be an expodential curve"
[21:42:21] Jacktheblack says, "I'm not sure of the exact formula for it, but that is what I found from my exp"
[21:42:33] Taunt says, "merchant brigands go straight for the grapple true or false?"
[21:42:56] Jacktheblack says, "I think that is false, everytime I have faced them all they do is shoot"
[21:43:04] Bendeall says, "I've found they either shoot or run."
[21:43:04] Taunt says, "also,do merchants run out of moves?"
[21:43:17] Jacktheblack says, "they act just like any other brigand in that case"
[21:43:40] Jacktheblack says, "okay, Miquela?"
[21:43:42] Miquela says, "is there any advantage to turning off auto sails if you have good sailors on your ship or should you always keep them on?"
[21:43:52] Bendeall says, "I definitely turn them off."
[21:43:59] Bendeall says, "but make sure you know what you want to do."
[21:44:06] Sqrlsoldier says, "holy"
[21:44:08] Bendeall says, "I only do if there's a specific move I have in mind."
[21:44:15] Sqrlsoldier says, "there are alot of people in here"
[21:44:31] Jacktheblack says, "personally I turn them on and off, expectially if I am just sitting, and not waiting for any certian move"
[21:44:44] Bendeall says, "If you don't have a specific move in mind"
[21:44:49] Bendeall says, "If you're like me, I'd avoid against it"
[21:44:54] Jacktheblack says, "okay, Drej"
[21:44:54] Bendeall says, "because I forget that i turned it off"
[21:44:59] Bendeall says, "and suddenly i have 9 right turns."
[21:45:01] Bendeall says, "and nothing else."
[21:45:14] Drej says, "when you and a brigand are both facing a square, is it better to let them move forward and then go aside or try to beat them into the square?"
[21:45:15] Jacktheblack says, "Aye I have done that a few times myself, thats why I turn it on and off"
[21:45:30] Bendeall says, "one square between us?"
[21:45:36] Drej says, "at a 90 degree angle to the same square"
[21:45:42] Bendeall says, "ah."
[21:45:52] Bendeall says, "I believe this was a point of discussion in the forums."
[21:45:59] Jacktheblack says, "This is all based on how well you know ramming works"
[21:46:03] Bendeall says, "This is the kind of situation that I would be saving my LSM for."
[21:46:15] Jacktheblack says, "it also depends on the size of the ship you are facing"
[21:46:22] Bendeall says, "in relation to you."
[21:46:31] Jacktheblack says, "if the ship is larger then yours, it will cut in front of you no matter what"
[21:46:56] Jacktheblack says, "while if it is the same size and you both move, you will "bounce" off of each other"
[21:47:12] Jacktheblack says, "But as Bo said, this would be a good time to use your LSM"
[21:47:18] Bendeall nods
[21:47:22] Bendeall = Bo, for those who don't know.
[21:47:31] Jacktheblack says, "that is one of the spots you want to aviod getting into if you are doing regular battle nav"
[21:47:50] Bendeall says, "In this situation"
[21:47:51] Jacktheblack says, "there will be alot more talking on ramming in 2 weeks durring the blockade nav talk with rummy"
[21:47:56] Bendeall says, "if you LSM him properly"
[21:48:11] Bendeall says, "he will only move forward once and shoot off the side where you would be if you didn't move."
[21:48:19] Bendeall says, "so you can compensate accordingly."
[21:48:37] Drej says, "ok, good to know"
[21:48:44] Bendeall says, "I would always try to beat him to the squre"
[21:48:45] Jacktheblack says, "okay, nuemenor?"
[21:48:46] Bendeall says, "LSM or no."
[21:48:50] Nuemenor says, "there are several move combos i see navers use over and over again; how do you decide which one to use that will work the best? or is it just a toss up?"
[21:49:24] Bendeall says, "OK."
[21:49:42] Bendeall says, "As I said at the start, with imperial boats"
[21:49:53] Bendeall says, "they often move in the same pattern whenever they get into a certain situation."
[21:50:10] Bendeall says, "Knowing what it is that they do, and the best way to counter it"
[21:50:19] Bendeall says, "You're just seeing people who know what this is doing so."
[21:50:41] Bendeall says, "Most navvers will try to position themselves"
[21:50:50] Bendeall says, "so that they enter into these situations over and over"
[21:51:03] Bendeall says, "make navving against these boats go much faster."
[21:51:15] Jacktheblack says, "okay, Diana?"
[21:51:19] Diana says, "how fast can they repair damage? or how long do you have to max them?"
[21:51:33] Bendeall tells you, "take this, I have no clue."
[21:51:49] Jacktheblack says, "brigands repair the same way we do"
[21:52:14] Jacktheblack says, "so it depends on how many times you have hit them"
[21:52:30] Diana says, "imperials too?"
[21:52:33] Jacktheblack says, "aye"
[21:52:53] Jacktheblack says, "basicly you have untill they can disengage plus a few turns"
[21:53:14] Jacktheblack says, "okay, Merkie?"
[21:53:58] Merkie says, "Okay...I know that there are all kinds of little tips and tricks to bnaving, but if you had to sum up how youre so...good...in one little phrase or tidbit or bit of advice, what would it be?"
[21:54:06] Bendeall says, "practice."
[21:54:29] Bendeall says, "I got most of my practice while memming."
[21:54:48] Bendeall says, "As has been said"
[21:55:04] Jacktheblack says, "I learned quite a bit of imperial naving while watching other people nav against imperials and asking them questions"
[21:55:10] Bendeall says, "they move fairly logically, and generally a given way when put in a certain situation."
[21:55:21] Bendeall says, "every time they're in that situation."
[21:55:32] Bendeall says, "so yeah, watching other people and seeing how the boat moves, and trying out yourself."
[21:55:36] Merkie says, "that wasnt the answer I was hoping for"
[21:55:36] Merkie smiles
[21:55:41] Bendeall laughs
[21:55:45] Bendeall says, "no easy way to learn."
[21:55:45] Jacktheblack says, "practice makes perfect"
[21:56:14] Jacktheblack says, "okay we will be taking 5 more questions"
[21:56:20] Jacktheblack says, "then we will be done for the night"
[21:56:52] Jacktheblack says, "okay, empereux?"
[21:57:02] Empereux says, "Bo.... will you marry me?"
[21:57:06] Mysterygirl laughs uncontrollably
[21:57:11] Otana laughs
[21:57:11] Derelict says, "heeeeeee"
[21:57:23] Bendeall says, "anyways."
[21:57:26] Zangor chuckles
[21:57:26] Bendeall says, "next question."
[21:57:34] Empereux says, "sorry, saw a pause... I am a horrible person. Plank me if ye must"
[21:57:45] Jacktheblack says, "I believe Rexie had a comment she wanted to make"
[21:57:49] Rexelita smiles
[21:57:58] Rexelita says, "I'd like to share a tidbit..."
[21:58:11] Rexelita says, "Most new navvers are very nervous and want to get it over with"
[21:58:12] Rexelita says, "Pause"
[21:58:14] Rexelita says, "take yer time"
[21:58:19] Bendeall nods
[21:58:24] Rexelita says, "think of bnav as a water ballet"
[21:58:28] Bendeall laughs
[21:58:31] Rexelita says, "be graceful and patient"
[21:58:35] Rexelita says, "Ye giggle, but it works!"
[21:58:40] Bendeall says, "it does."
[21:58:44] Rexelita says, "Go in, shoot, get out."
[21:58:47] Rexelita says, "Repeat."
[21:58:53] Bendeall says, "Taking your time is important."
[21:58:54] Taunt says, "or just sucker punch them every chance ye get"
[21:59:00] Bendeall says, "Especially if you're pillaging in ruby"
[21:59:06] Bendeall says, "a long battle is better than getting shot"
[21:59:13] Rexelita says, "take the brigand on yers terms, not theirs. Lure them to the part of the board where ye wish to fight."
[21:59:15] Bendeall says, "because more than 3 shots = DE time usually."
[21:59:27] Rexelita says, "thankee, jes wanted to share"
[21:59:35] Bendeall says, "I know most people would prefer a long battle that's max / 0 than losing"
[21:59:39] Bendeall says, "or having to disengage and reengage."
[21:59:50] Bendeall says, "or at least, I would."
[22:00:15] Jacktheblack says, "Okay, Wonkots?"
[22:00:29] Wonkots says, "If you are hunting, can carrying some small amount of commods draw in brigands?"
[22:00:37] Bendeall says, "Not that I've seen."
[22:00:45] Bendeall defers
[22:00:52] Jacktheblack says, "the only thing that will draw brigands more to you is Gems"
[22:01:10] Wonkots says, "I feel I get engaged more when hauling commods, when I dont want it, and the ocean seems empty when pillaging"
[22:01:21] Jacktheblack says, "The game is written so that if you have Gems on board you will spawn more brigands"
[22:01:26] Jacktheblack says, "Not true at all"
[22:01:29] Zangor says, "That's just Murphy's law =P"
[22:01:30] Bendeall says, "you probably just notice it more."
[22:01:40] Wonkots says, "Ok, fair enough"
[22:01:44] Empereux says, "aye, Owenthebald would regularly bring one gem along and we always had good spawns"
[22:01:48] Jacktheblack says, "the reason it seems that way is that you are busy moving the stuff around, while the other one you are sitting there watching"
[22:02:00] Bendeall says, "It's like I find that I get attacked more when i'm duty navving."
[22:02:09] Bendeall says, "not *really* happening, just a bigger pain in the ass."
[22:02:19] Jacktheblack says, "okay, poedrone?"
[22:02:43] Empereux says, "on Cobalt, the best way to generate spawn seems to be to turn about for a minute or so, back and forth on league points"
[22:02:46] Padore says, "ahoy"
[22:03:00] Poedrone says, "I have noticed that in the Brig's first turn move they usually will not go straight... always trying to close upon you in the diagonal, do you see this as well?"
[22:03:10] Bendeall says, "depends."
[22:03:23] Poedrone says, "Given the terrain"
[22:03:24] Bendeall says, "This is something that goes to just watching."
[22:03:31] Bendeall says, "It depends on how far away from you they are."
[22:03:41] Bendeall says, "In general, they don't just move forward."
[22:03:55] Bendeall says, "Imp brigands almost always try to get either 2 squares behind or in front of you"
[22:04:15] Bendeall says, "but depending on how far away they are"
[22:04:30] Bendeall says, "I find that beyond a certain distance [haven't kept track, just a judgment thing]"
[22:04:40] Bendeall says, "they come at me diagonally, just to close the gap."
[22:04:57] Bendeall says, "usually means I can get in at least a couple shots on the first turn without getting hit back."
[22:05:17] Bendeall says, "this behavior is more prominent with brigs"
[22:05:25] Poedrone says, "Aye, reason I bring this up is that if I plan for them to LRL, or RRl (to turn about) and plot to shoot that square about 80% of the time it's 2 quick hits (on the bigger ships) fo rme"
[22:05:27] Bendeall says, "because of less moves per turn."
[22:05:31] "Do not disturb" enabled: only your hearties will be able to send you puzzle challenges, jobbing invites, or trade requests; and nobody can send you a hearty invite.
[22:05:38] Bendeall says, "it's the same for me."
[22:05:51] Bendeall says, "That's one of the typical behaviors of a brigand."
[22:05:53] Bendeall says, "er"
[22:05:55] Bendeall says, "imp brigand."
[22:06:05] Jacktheblack says, "okay, peanutswench?"
[22:06:06] Poedrone says, "Aye. big differance there. ;-)"
[22:06:11] Peanutswench says, "sorry if this was asked, i was late as per norm.... but i have heard that X sailors doing X skill, provide X tokens beyond that it doesn't matter... true/false? if so do you know the numbers?"
[22:06:11] Bendeall says, "indeed."
[22:06:23] Bendeall has no clue, defers to jack
[22:06:41] Bendeall says, "I don't know anything on formulae or technical stuff really."
[22:06:43] Bendeall laughs
[22:06:44] Jacktheblack says, "Shur is the expert on this one, he said he has it all figured out, but I'll relate how I know this at I can"
[22:06:59] Rexelita says, "Ye can generate up to 3 tokens per turn max, I believe"
[22:07:10] Rexelita says, "So careful token management is key"
[22:07:31] Jacktheblack says, "basicly it means that you can only generate a certian number of tokens per turn, ~3.5, and that sailors puzzles just don't add together"
[22:07:54] Jacktheblack says, "each sailor after the "first" is worth less then that one"
[22:08:06] Peanutswench says, "ah so skill matters more than numbers in terms of sailors?"
[22:08:30] Jacktheblack says, "the ammount less changes for each ships, but basicly it applies a factor to each one after the first"
[22:08:37] Jacktheblack says, "aye, skill still means more"
[22:08:45] Peanutswench says, "ah Thank ye"
[22:08:46] Jacktheblack says, "for example on a sloop I believe it is like this"
[22:08:54] Jacktheblack says, "the first sailor gets one"
[22:09:04] Jacktheblack says, "the second sailor would get .85 factor"
[22:09:23] Jacktheblack says, "so its current puzzle is multiplied by .85 and added to the first sailor"
[22:09:35] Jacktheblack says, "then divided out by what is needed to get the max sail tokens"
[22:09:50] Jacktheblack hopes he isn't lossing everyone
[22:10:05] Poedrone gets out her abbacus
[22:10:07] Bendeall laughs
[22:10:13] Peanutswench laughs
[22:10:20] Jacktheblack says, "as you add sailors the rate goes down, but it is different for every type of ship"
[22:10:52] Jacktheblack says, "One example, a sloop might have a "base" of 2.5, but a WB would have a "base" of 7"
[22:11:21] Jacktheblack says, "if an incred is worth 2, then you can almost get the max out of a sloop with just one sailor"
[22:11:37] Jacktheblack says, "yet if you want max with the WB, you are going to have to need more sailors no matter what"
[22:11:59] Jacktheblack says, "anyone want a follow up question on all that?"
[22:12:04] Bendeall laughs
[22:12:27] Jacktheblack just moves along then
[22:12:31] Jacktheblack says, "Okay, Zava?"
[22:12:31] Piepi wonders what the minimum number of sailors on a brig pulling increds is to get 3.5
[22:12:31] Poedrone says, "So an Incred's 2, then down by .5 per ranking?"
[22:12:37] Zava waits
[22:12:46] Jacktheblack says, "I am not sure what it is, I haven't figured that out"
[22:12:56] Bendeall orders everyone to pester shuranthae
[22:12:57] Poedrone nods and puts the abbacus away
[22:12:59] Bendeall says, "you can quote me on that"
[22:13:04] Jacktheblack says, "but it goes down on a scale, and that scale is different for each ship"
[22:13:04] Zava says, "How often does a ship spawn brigands? Time-wise?"
[22:13:09] Peanutswench says, "oh goodie"
[22:13:15] Jacktheblack says, "I don't believe that any on sail is less then .5"
[22:13:46] Bendeall says, "Jack or pie might have specific numbers"
[22:13:57] Bendeall says, "but in my experience, I've seen that it varies."
[22:14:05] Piepi has never timed it
[22:14:16] Bendeall says, "I've had trips where I go an entire chart without a battle"
[22:14:29] Bendeall says, "while, for example, a few nights ago i didn't leave one league for about 6 battles."
[22:14:44] Bendeall says, "and it wasn't that I was turning about repeatedly, I just had spawns left and right."
[22:14:58] Bendeall says, "On average, I'd say I guess I see one every 2 leagues"
[22:15:03] Bendeall says, "at full sails."
[22:15:03] Zava says, "Ah, ok. :)"
[22:15:05] Melanthe says, "Hasn't that change gone into effect where brigands spawn at a slower rate closer to inhabited islands?"
[22:15:12] Bendeall says, "yes, it has"
[22:15:15] Melanthe says, "I don't know if it's noticable, though."
[22:15:16] Bendeall says, "but I haven't really noticed it."
[22:15:26] Bendeall says, "Especially when it comes to the last league of a charting"
[22:15:36] Bendeall says, "I can't think of a pillage where I haven't had a brigand waiting for me in that last league."
[22:15:46] Jacktheblack says, "the last question for the night, Qmaster?"
[22:16:21] Qmaster says, "Can you provide some simple guidelines about controlling what type of ships you spawn?"
[22:16:33] Qmaster says, "number of people, SB rating, etc"
[22:16:47] Bendeall defers
[22:16:56] Jacktheblack says, "The spawn type depends on those but also what route you are sailing"
[22:17:06] Jacktheblack says, "it is mainly based off of the number of people and the route"
[22:17:21] Jacktheblack says, "then the difficulty is based off the SB rating of all those on the ship"
[22:17:40] Jacktheblack says, "for example a sloop of 6 will spawn Cutters, but they will never spawn MBs"
[22:17:50] Bendeall says, "*almost* never"
[22:18:01] Bendeall spawns MB's on red routes
[22:18:03] Jacktheblack says, "while a sloop of 7 will spawn MBs in some green routes and ofter at yellow"
[22:18:29] Jacktheblack says, "Also the ships will get bigger if you happen to be on a streak"
[22:18:40] Jacktheblack says, "you can start with a WB of 30 and fight a few WFs"
[22:18:49] Jacktheblack says, "but after those wins you will always be spawning GFs to fight you"
[22:19:19] Jacktheblack says, "So the size of the ship is determined on how many people you have, what color route you are sailing, and how many times in a row you have won"
[22:19:37] Qmaster says, "So do you avoid filling your ship so that you don't spawn huge brigands?"
[22:20:00] Jacktheblack says, "thats all depends on the navigator and how comfortable you are with the bigger ships"
[22:20:31] Bendeall says, "OK so we've covered some of the basic stuff on brigand nav."
[22:20:46] Bendeall says, "there are a lot of situation specific stuff as well to take into account."
[22:20:52] Bendeall says, "As rexelita said, never be afraid to take your time"
[22:21:03] Rexelita smiles
[22:21:13] Bendeall says, "and moreover, if you're unsure about doing a SF after taking some amount of damage, never be against DEing and reengaging."
[22:21:35] Bendeall says, "Even with high-end pillages, I get uncomfortable beyond a certain damage level"
[22:21:53] Bendeall says, "and will have no qualms about shooting the other boat to cut down their token generation"
[22:22:02] Bendeall says, "and disengaging and reengaging."
[22:22:20] Bendeall says, "What it comes down to is that, like you, your jobbers want to win."
[22:22:34] Bendeall says, "So take your time if that's what it takes to get a good shot count."
[22:22:59] Bendeall says, "beyond that, it's just practice learning what the brigands will do"
[22:23:14] Bendeall says, "and how to successfully use LSM and other bnav techniques"
[22:23:35] Bendeall says, "I think we're wrapping up, but please, feel free to send me a tell with any questions you may come up with in the future."
[22:23:42] Bendeall says, "I get terrible puzzle vision"
[22:23:46] Bendeall says, "but will respond in time."
[22:23:59] Jacktheblack says, "I thank you all for coming tonight"
[22:24:02] Bendeall laughs just have patience.
[22:24:10] Poedrone applauds the speakers
[22:24:11] Bemis says, "Thanks so much for putting this together, Jack, and for the lecture, Bendeall."
[22:24:13] Blarneybelle applauds
[22:24:13] Jacktheblack says, "We are having one on PvP next week with Sweetiepiepi"
[22:24:15] Mysterygirl says, "Thank ye"
[22:24:17] Melanthe claps
[22:24:18] Rexelita says, "thankee fer the meeting"
[22:24:20] Derelict laughs
[22:24:22] Jacktheblack says, "Thank you Bendeall for helping out"
[22:24:26] Bendeall bows
[22:24:27] Bendeall says, "any time."
[22:24:39] Armand says, "thank ye"
[22:24:39] Empereux says, "Thanks, gentlemen.... is this a regular event or does is have the possibility of becoming one?"
[22:24:50] Peanutswench thinks after the PvP talk bo and sweetie should do a sinker againts each other... that or i am lookin for a reason to go boomy
[22:24:52] Jacktheblack says, "It is planned for the next 3 weeks"
[22:24:52] Bendeall says, "there's a lecture every wednesday for the next 3 weeks."
[22:24:53] Bemis says, "Will you be posting a transcript on the forum, for those who couldn't make it?"
[22:25:01] Bendeall laughs /me will fight pie.
[22:25:05] Jacktheblack says, "aye a transcrpit will be posted"
[22:25:06] Qmaster says, "Well, if you alway propose to the lecturer, it could become a weekly thing"
[22:25:11] Blarneybelle laughs
[22:25:19] Melanthe laughs
[22:25:25] Jacktheblack says, "http://forums.puzzlepirates.com/community/mvnforum/viewthread?thread=25490"
[22:25:31] Empereux says, "haha, no that was a question just for Bo, sorry"
[22:25:32] Jacktheblack says, "if people are not sure of how we are doing this"
[22:25:52] Jacktheblack says, "Next week is PvP, followed by Blockade Nav"
[22:25:58] Jacktheblack says, "Then I will be doing a general talk"
[22:26:04] Qmaster says, "I'm sure Sweetiepiepi will be very disappointed"
[22:26:17] Bendeall will try to be present for all of em.
[22:26:18] Jacktheblack says, "I am glad you all decided to come, and hope to see you all again next week :-)"

[Oct 19, 2005 7:51:57 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    jacktheblackypp    samergamer [Link]  Go to top 
Vurogj

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Re: [Midnight] Jacktheblack Presents: How to Battle Nav with Special Guests

 
[22:00:52] Jacktheblack says, "the only thing that will draw brigands more to you is Gems"


Are we still perpetuatin' this stupid, insane, downright WRONG myth?

http://forums.puzzlepirates.com/community/mvnforum/viewthread?p=46560#46560

There is no code in the game that draws *more* brigands to ye based on what ye have on board. There is code that means they take twice as many gems as they should. That is all.
----------------------------------------
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still haz da phat haiku skillz.
Tawnee on Midnight.
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[Oct 20, 2005 12:49:22 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    vurogj    vurojg [Link]  Go to top 
kmf

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Re: [Midnight] Jacktheblack Presents: How to Battle Nav with Special Guests

Very interesting lecture. Thanks for posting it for those of us who couldn't attend. I'm now itching to get home and try out a few of the suggestions :)

One thing I did note was this:


 
Thank you to everyone who came tonight. Here is the requested chat log for the brigand talk:

 

[21:21:06] Jacktheblack says, "Blood always comes from imperials"



I very rarely spawn imperials whilst sailing alone and very recently solo pillaged Kraken's blood from Sailor Brigands so that statement isn't 100% accurate. Have to say I was rather surprised when it happened as up until then I've only seen Imperials with the stuff.
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kmf
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Painting Midnight purple, one ship at a time...
[Oct 20, 2005 1:03:00 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Vurogj

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Re: [Midnight] Jacktheblack Presents: How to Battle Nav with Special Guests

Well, ye're both right, but Jack used lazy english. Only imperials *spawn* blood. The blood ye won was drawn from the commodity pool, not spawned by the brigand. It had previously been lost by a player ship in a seabattle.
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[Oct 20, 2005 1:07:24 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    vurogj    vurojg [Link]  Go to top 
Jacktheblack

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Re: [Midnight] Jacktheblack Presents: How to Battle Nav with Special Guests

 
Well, ye're both right, but Jack used lazy english. Only imperials *spawn* blood. The blood ye won was drawn from the commodity pool, not spawned by the brigand. It had previously been lost by a player ship in a seabattle.


Yes, thats exactly what I ment.

In order to make it a bit more clear what I said about how brigands generate moves, look at the graph below. The graph is based of the damage given to a cutter. The first shot does not really matter because the bilger can clear all of the water out, so token generation is not affected. As you put more shots into the brigand the water level in the bilge will rise to a level that the bilger can not clear up, causing the token generation to fall. This graph is not completely accurate at the very end, since the code is set to generate a token every 3 moves no matter what the bilge level is as long as you have a sailor. This graph is by no means definitive and probably could use a bit of refinement.


[Oct 20, 2005 7:25:52 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    jacktheblackypp    samergamer [Link]  Go to top 
bret1t



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Re: [Midnight] Jacktheblack Presents: How to Battle Nav with Special Guests

Thanks Jack and friends. Very interesting.

I hated that I had to work late last night and missed this, so thanks very much for the chat log.

The one important thing I learned from all that... when Loose mumbles he speaks very clearly. Kind of like a person with a stutter that sings well. Humm, go figure.
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CalicoJack
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[Oct 20, 2005 9:01:25 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Shuranthae

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Re: [Midnight] Jacktheblack Presents: How to Battle Nav with Special Guests

Jack wrote: 
Tawnee wrote: 
Well, ye're both right, but Jack used lazy english. Only imperials *spawn* blood. The blood ye won was drawn from the commodity pool, not spawned by the brigand. It had previously been lost by a player ship in a seabattle.
Yes, thats exactly what I ment.

Oh really?
[Oct 20, 2005 3:13:56 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Jacktheblack

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Re: [Midnight] Jacktheblack Presents: How to Battle Nav with Special Guests

 
Jack wrote: 
Tawnee wrote: 
Well, ye're both right, but Jack used lazy english. Only imperials *spawn* blood. The blood ye won was drawn from the commodity pool, not spawned by the brigand. It had previously been lost by a player ship in a seabattle.
Yes, thats exactly what I ment.

Oh really?


Are you sure it didn't come out of the pool of comds because someone lost a blood to a brigand?
[Oct 20, 2005 3:16:01 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    jacktheblackypp    samergamer [Link]  Go to top 
Shuranthae

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Re: [Midnight] Jacktheblack Presents: How to Battle Nav with Special Guests

Jack wrote: 
Are you sure it didn't come out of the pool of comds because someone lost a blood to a brigand?
I suppose it's possible that someone with the ability to win or transport blood attacked a Mostly Harmless brigand and lost to them. Though the brigand could have attacked them, but that would imply that they were moving blood in a Merch Brig (fairly certain I'm the only one silly enough to do this) solo, otherwise the brig shouldn't be a minimally staffed in a MB and Mostly Harmless.
[Oct 20, 2005 3:19:30 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
sweetnessc

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Re: [Midnight] Jacktheblack Presents: How to Battle Nav with Special Guests

Shur, my understanding was that all commods that are lost by brigands go into a general 'pool' and can be parcelled out as booty to any player ship. I didn't think the computer kept track of what ship had won what in order to put the same booty on re-spawns of that class of ship. My reason for thinking this is because when I get a bunch of one commod on a greenie recruiting run from low end ships, I seem to also get that same commod on a ruby brig pillage against Imperials.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world. ~ Jack Layton

Sublime is shame.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by sweetnessc at Oct 20, 2005 3:32:27 PM]
[Oct 20, 2005 3:26:55 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Shuranthae

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Re: [Midnight] Jacktheblack Presents: How to Battle Nav with Special Guests

You're more likely to get commods in greenie runs because people who move commods tend to fight lower level brigands.

Anyway, pay attention to the commods you get when you pillage (high level brigs), and the commods you get from a re-engage that you lost.

God damn my typos. God damn them to hell!
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by Shuranthae at Oct 20, 2005 3:40:04 PM]
[Oct 20, 2005 3:38:42 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
sweetnessc

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Re: [Midnight] Jacktheblack Presents: How to Battle Nav with Special Guests

Hehe one more column in my spreadsheet. That thing is getting huge!

Edit: Clarifying one point: Are you talking about the opportunity to retake commods you lost? I ask because my understanding was that you get the usual chunk of the actual hold of the brigands' ship, plus a payout from the general booty pool.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world. ~ Jack Layton

Sublime is shame.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by sweetnessc at Oct 20, 2005 3:55:46 PM]
[Oct 20, 2005 3:54:06 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Shuranthae

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Re: [Midnight] Jacktheblack Presents: How to Battle Nav with Special Guests

I was talking about being able to win stuff you lost from the same brigand because it goes into their booty.

Lemme approach this from a different angle. Let's assume that there is a general booty pool, as you guys suggest. Thus, the chances of getting a blood from that general booty pool should be the same regardless of what kind of brigand you fight? If so, then the chances of me getting blood while solo the very few times that I used to solo (think I've gotten 4-5 blood solo all in all) should be insignificant next to the number of blood gotten from other soloers who solo much more often than I do, again assuming the general booty pool.

If this is not the case, then there must be something different about the brigands I fight when I solo as opposed to the kind of brigands that most people fight when they're solo, otherwise all those soloers out there who solo much more often than I do should be getting more blood than me when I solo. To date, it's not unheard of but I have only heard of a very few who got blood while soloing.
[Oct 20, 2005 5:11:19 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
sweetnessc

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Re: [Midnight] Jacktheblack Presents: How to Battle Nav with Special Guests

 
I was talking about being able to win stuff you lost from the same brigand because it goes into their booty.

Lemme approach this from a different angle. Let's assume that there is a general booty pool, as you guys suggest. Thus, the chances of getting a blood from that general booty pool should be the same regardless of what kind of brigand you fight? If so, then the chances of me getting blood while solo the very few times that I used to solo (think I've gotten 4-5 blood solo all in all) should be insignificant next to the number of blood gotten from other soloers who solo much more often than I do, again assuming the general booty pool.

If this is not the case, then there must be something different about the brigands I fight when I solo as opposed to the kind of brigands that most people fight when they're solo, otherwise all those soloers out there who solo much more often than I do should be getting more blood than me when I solo. To date, it's not unheard of but I have only heard of a very few who got blood while soloing.


Heh nothing like taking seven posts for me to set out my complete theory of payout generation. I'll try to do it all in one this time.

- The 'new' poe payout is determined after the swordight ends based on the number of pirates, their sea battle ratings, and the sea battle ratings of the brigands. The poe is not already on the brigand ship when it spawns because the payout is directly related to the number of pirates on board at payout, so it can't be 20% of the booty kind of idea.
- In addition, you get the usual % of whatever is in the brigand's booty, which will include any poe or commods that you lost to that same ship.
- All commods in the booty of the brigands when they poof are placed into a pool of commods available for payout to pillagers. The poe in the booty vanishes (although on further thought, this poe could also go into the pool and be part of the seemingly random factor that comes into payouts).
- You get a random payout of commods from the pool of commods that players lost to brigands. Winning blood this way is quite rare, because most blood pillages don't lose blood to brigands in the first place.
- Old player-lost kraken's blood is picked up from pool of commods lost to players and is paid out the same as those commods.
- New Kraken's blood is either spawned at the time that your boat is (hence why there seem to be "blood boats" that are the ones that pay out) and put in the booty of the brigand ship, with you getting the usual chance of taking it from the booty, or new Kraken's blood is spawned with a probability attached to it at the same time as the poe payout is determined. I can't think of a way to test this one.
- Unexplained counter-evidence: You tend to get a couple rum and balls from most fights. The probability of getting the size of cbs you need for your own ship is very high; the probability of getting balls of a different size is low; but you are more likely to get large cbs on a brig than on a sloop. This would suggest that either the payout includes a 'ship supplies' component so you get what you need, balls are a special case and are are assigned from the commodities pool based on your ship class, or commods come from a class of ships like Shur suggested.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world. ~ Jack Layton

Sublime is shame.
[Oct 20, 2005 5:34:06 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Jacktheblack

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Re: [Midnight] Jacktheblack Presents: How to Battle Nav with Special Guests

Just a reminder that tonight at 6 PM PST is the PvP session with Sweetiepiepi.
[Oct 26, 2005 1:45:44 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    jacktheblackypp    samergamer [Link]  Go to top 
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