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Artemis
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Re: [Fin] Sword Finale 3/26 Reply to this Post
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The Grand Sword Finals!
Date: Saturday March 26 (For Qualifying Times, see Calendar)
Registration Time: TBA
Event Time: TBA
Prize: A Monkey of your choice
Format: Players must register with me before the event (see registration times) so that we can get a list of participants together. Latecomers will not be admitted. All participants will be jobbed into Ajax's crew and will board one of his ships for the duration of the finals. After being disqualified, participants are welcome to stick around to watch, but will be asked to keep quiet for those still competing!

Qualifiers: From the 11th through the 25th, we will be holding eight different qualifying swords tournaments, placing in one of those is your ticket into the final familiar rounds! The top two winners from each qualifier will be guaranteed admission and the two runner ups will be alternates. Alternates will fill in for missing or redundant winners with priority given to those who qualified first (i.e. alternates from S1 have priority over those from S2, S2 over those from S3, etc.) If only one alternate can be chosen from a qualifyer, the two alternates will play a Bo5 set to determine who gets priority.

Finals Format: There will be three different parts to the finals with scores being wiped after each part.
  • ]Part 1: Four rounds of a Bo5 Swiss style tournament with double elimination. Five players advance.
  • ]Part 2: This part will be a Round Robin with 7 games per set. Players will be ranked based on total games won/lost and any ties for 2nd place will be resolved at this time with a Bo9 set. Top two players advance.
  • ]Part 3: Bo11 match between the top two players, winner takes home a familiar! If participants agree they may postpone this last match until later in the week.[/list:u:779e3f367e]


    List of Qualifiers:

    +----------------+--------------+--------------+--------------+
    | First | Second | Alternate | Alternate |
    +----------------+--------------+--------------+--------------+
    |1:*Corey |*Seahorse | Randal |*Crazyluigi |
    |2:*Silverdawg |*Ericader |*Llama |*Eyes |
    |3: Silverdawg |*Demonyaj | Keiko | Blondielass |
    |4: Ericader |*Lak | Gingerninja | Robertdonald |
    |5: Ericader | Silverdawg | Firemonkey | Waiting |
    |6:*Moonme |*Peglegpaul | Llama | Firemonkey |
    |7:*Randal |*Cioj | Robertdonald | Gingerninja |
    |8:*Annesatsu |*Blueminky | Julianne | Ninjaguy |
    +----------------+--------------+--------------+--------------+



    Please post results from Qualifying tournaments so this list can be updated!

    * - denotes a guaranteed slot in finals if they show up on time!
    ----------------------------------------
    [Edit 15 times, last edit by Artemis at Feb 13, 2005 2:00:47 AM]
[Feb 13, 2005 2:00:47 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Artemis
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Updated the Sword finals. The final match may now be postponed until later in the week to preserve their sanity.
[Mar 7, 2005 6:50:37 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
SiLVeRD

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Artemis wrote: 
Updated the Sword finals. The final match may now be postponed until later in the week to preserve their sanity.


Artemis can you give some guidelines to how long we can postpone? Finish matches in a 2 week span? Will it be like a mini OCL season from season I when we can individually schedule rounds with people [Similar to the Round Robin that Trickykid is currently hosting] I personally think its a good idea as it promotes flexability. Additionally you can still have an absolute deadline posted, but give the players a chance to choose when to fight? Thanks again Artemis for your continual greatness!
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The one & only SD, often imitated but never duplicated

If you gonna shoot for the stars, then just shoot me

If you let me you won't regret me,
Shii, if you let me you won't forget me
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I believe it's just the FINAL FINAL match that can be postponed silver, not the swiss/round robin. SHe's talking about just the bo11 fight for the familiar between the top2.

Yeah, I was hoping otherwise too.
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Artemis
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Trickykid wrote: 
I believe it's just the FINAL FINAL match that can be postponed silver, not the swiss/round robin. SHe's talking about just the bo11 fight for the familiar between the top2.

Yeah, I was hoping otherwise too.


Correct, rescheduling would be impossible otherwise.
[Mar 7, 2005 7:17:04 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
SiLVeRD

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Re: [Fin] Sword Finale 3/26 Reply to this Post
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[size=18]Familiar results:



SF Test tourny:3/11/05


Quarters:
2-0 Spin over Randal
2-0 Wayli over General
2-0 Silverdawg over Lak
2-0? Ericader over Bluminky?


Semis:
2-0 Spin over Wayli
2-1 Silverdawg over Ericader

Finals:
2-1 Silverdawg over Spin

for the lime kraken



Drinking:3/12/05

Quarters:
Kilyko over Madmeg
Lileath over Jelly
Indeed over Barrownbeard
Dorien over Dodongo

Semis:
Kilyko over Lileath
Indeed over Dorien

Finals:
Kilyko over Indeed

for the maroon/yellow parrot


Edited: thanks Bluetta & Spin
----------------------------------------
The one & only SD, often imitated but never duplicated

If you gonna shoot for the stars, then just shoot me

If you let me you won't regret me,
Shii, if you let me you won't forget me
----------------------------------------
[Edit 2 times, last edit by SiLVeRD at Mar 12, 2005 3:51:05 AM]
[Mar 12, 2005 3:51:05 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    Please    No    Stalking me [Link]  Go to top 
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Guess I'm sposed to post here: 2nd SF Qualifier:
1-Silverdawg
2-Ericader
3-Llama
4-Eyes
[Mar 12, 2005 11:06:39 PM] Show Printable Version of Post   [Link]  Go to top 
Yunafied

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Question: Are all of the qualifiers for the Grand Sword Tournaments going to be with a specific sword? The one I went to today (March 18th, noon) was an all Skull Dagger tournament. I cannot handle that particular sword well for my life. Will any of the other tournaments be Bring Your Own Sword? It's just that, I'm fairly sure (unless there are rules I didn't see) that the finals will be conducted in that manner, so I think it would make sense to do the same with qualifiers.
----------------------------------------
Out of the trap.
[Mar 18, 2005 4:24:31 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Dodongo77

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The sword qualifiers have been all sorts of different setups. I've seen 1 match BYOS, i've seen Tricky's Swiss Bo3, and today's Skullie one. One of the last few is a stick tourney and another is a Tricky's Swiss style BYOS.

And after getting bumped in my first match of the Skullie tourney I finally realized just now that the Skullie has the old Scim pattern. So I should've been making sprinkles instead of strikes. Ugh!
[Mar 18, 2005 6:54:09 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
SiLVeRD

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5th Sf qualifer

Qual bids:
Ericader
Silverdawg

Alternates in no particular order
Firemonkey and Waiting:

With Eric's and SD's third bid each Eyes and Llama auto qualify!! congrats to both
----------------------------------------
The one & only SD, often imitated but never duplicated

If you gonna shoot for the stars, then just shoot me

If you let me you won't regret me,
Shii, if you let me you won't forget me
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SiLVeRD

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6th qualifer

Qual bids:
#1 Moonme
#2 Peglegpaul


Alternates in no particular order:
Llama and Firemonkey
----------------------------------------
The one & only SD, often imitated but never duplicated

If you gonna shoot for the stars, then just shoot me

If you let me you won't regret me,
Shii, if you let me you won't forget me
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Annesatsu

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3/25 Sword Qualifier #8

1st Annesatsu
2nd Blueminky

Alternates
Julianne, ? (ack, didn't get to see who was in the other bracket)
----------------------------------------
-Annesatsu
Disciple of the Mad Professor
Hellfire
<3 to Llama for the Avatar
[Mar 25, 2005 2:06:09 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
rosebud13

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Annesatsu wrote: 
3/25 Sword Qualifier #8

1st Annesatsu
2nd Blueminky

Alternates
Julianne, ? (ack, didn't get to see who was in the other bracket)



It was Ninjaguy :)
----------------------------------------
Blueminky -- Slow Children at Play -- Caution Road Humps
[Mar 25, 2005 2:12:44 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
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for the sword finals tomorrow i'm not sure what time we have to register by. i know it says the event is at 9, but it says not to be late for registering. i asked a couple people if they knew what time we should come, and they didn't know so i'm guessing show up like half an hour early?
----------------------------------------
Silverdawg says, "i always have to wipe yer dirty ash"
[Mar 25, 2005 3:12:27 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Artemis
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Ajax should be around 30 minutes before the posted time for the Sword Finals today, you need to send him a tell to register. Once you've been jobbed into his crew you're registered! He'll announce over crew chat when it's time to begin, you're welcome to wander until that time.

Alternates should be registering too, once registration is complete we can determine what alternates made it or not.
[Mar 25, 2005 8:16:21 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
RobertDonald

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Predictions:

Ericader wins Grand Swords.

Lamoran over Dorien in Grand Drinking.

I'll bet on this but you'll have to give me 3 to 1 odds, e.g. pay me 30,000 to my 10,000.
----------------------------------------
Quizzical wrote: 
If winners and losers are arbitrarily chosen by ringers or OM's, then it is no longer even a game. It's just clicking random buttons hoping to be arbitrarily chosen, which becomes stupid really fast.

[Mar 26, 2005 12:29:39 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Artemis
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Artemis wrote: 
Ajax should be around 30 minutes before the posted time for the Sword Finals today


Ajax Got his time zones messed up, registration will be until 10 minutes past the hour!
[Mar 26, 2005 12:54:26 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
RobertDonald

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Randal says, "one sec, rob. ajax - no switching?"
Ajax says, "No switching swords, aye."
Robertdonald says, "switching has been allowed in all previous familiar tournaments, without specific rules to the contrary I'd have to assume it was allowed"
Ajax says, "Well, I can edit it in if it makes ye feel better ;)"
Robertdonald says, "Also, please edit it in and note the edit, since it is a major rule change."

Robertdonald says, "ok, further clarification is needed"
Robertdonald says, "Can I switch swords between players"
Robertdonald says, "that is, if I use a skull dagger now, need I use one for the entire tournament"

Edit:

Robertdonald waits for further rules clarification.
Ajax says, "Ah sorry, I think it's easiest if you just keep the same sword throughout"
Robertdonald says, "I need a definitive answer, not a "I think it is easiest""
Robertdonald says, "If I use a skull dagger now, do I have to use it for every remaining match in the tournament"
Ajax says, "Use the same exact sword throughout (i.e. no switching)"
Robertdonald says, "Ok, I forfeit."
----------------------------------------
Quizzical wrote: 
If winners and losers are arbitrarily chosen by ringers or OM's, then it is no longer even a game. It's just clicking random buttons hoping to be arbitrarily chosen, which becomes stupid really fast.

[Mar 26, 2005 1:25:01 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
RobertDonald

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Could you please announce these radical rule changes in advance so I can not waste my freaking time in qualifiers? Jesus.
----------------------------------------
Quizzical wrote: 
If winners and losers are arbitrarily chosen by ringers or OM's, then it is no longer even a game. It's just clicking random buttons hoping to be arbitrarily chosen, which becomes stupid really fast.

[Mar 26, 2005 1:30:19 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
ciole

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This is where I looked to find the time for the tourney today:

 
The Grand Sword Finals!
Date: Saturday March 26 (For Qualifying Times, see Calendar)
Registration Time: TBA
Event Time: TBA


You know, in the post describing the event.

Those TBAs stared at me, I stared back. I heard rumors it was going to be postponed, I decided not to bother Artemis to get the details, out of respect for the deluge of tells the poor OMs suffer. I decided I would just come on nice and early and ask around.

The more fool me. My leisurely waking hour of 9 AM brought me in just a few minutes past the "Registration Time" which was somehow not listed under "Registration Time:" in the post I'd been watching, anxiously awaiting those TBAs to turn into some specific times.

Edit:

Looking over the thread this last time, I noticed this post by Artemis:

Ajax Got his time zones messed up, registration will be until 10 minutes past the hour!

Which indicates that Ajax excluded me from the tourney for having missed the deadline by scant moments. I wonder how much disruption jobbing me at that point would truly have caused.

Bad luck.
----------------------------------------
Greenwolf says, "Cioj!"
Greenwolf says, "Good work, man!"
[Mar 26, 2005 1:39:28 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://oddlyhippo.blogspot.com/ [Link]  Go to top 
Dorien

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RobertDonald wrote: 
Could you please announce these... changes in advance...


This seems to be a recurrent theme for this month. While the events were awesome there seem to have been loads of organizational issues that made it more of a hassle than fun for many players, particularly in the last two weekends or so. Which is a shame because I think March Madness was a really great idea, but more and more it looks like there wasn't quite as much planning as would have been useful.
----------------------------------------
Lord of Tyr's Own, Ambassador and SO of the Fifth Fist

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[Mar 26, 2005 4:15:17 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
LongJohnGrey

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Alright, I'm not RD's fan club or anything, but I call foul.

I'm assuming the sword finals today was Bo3.

I cannot imagine any top level sword player using only a single sword. No matter which sword you have that you are good at, it will send your opponents blocks that are good for sprinkling, or blocks that are good for striking. If your opponent is using a sword that likes what you are sending, you'll switch to your alternate backup sword that doesn't.

Then there's the RPS aspect -- do you assume that your opponent will switch to a sword that is better against what you just used, and switch yourself accordingly?

Multiple swords at high level SF is something that I take as a given. I hardly think that RD is the only one doing this. Nor do I take this as a bad thing -- being able to master multiple swords, and knowing which sword is better against which sword, are both signs of a good SF'er.

This just does not seem like a fair ruling.

EDIT:
Ok, it was Bo5, Bo9, and Bo11, manually scored/set up. That is certainly long enough to assume people can and will change swords to try different tactics as needed.
----------------------------------------
Re: Market on Scurvy Reef:
Hypnos wrote: 
I didn't realize it was such a hot forage spot until I dropped it and three pirates showed up on the island in quick succession.
And it wasn't even 9 spaces from the arrow :-).
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HuskyTed

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Everyone on the boat for the sword finals was asked for their opinion on sword switching before the tourney. The general consensus was that we didn't want sword switching, infact I don't think anyone spoke out for it.

Ajax stated that clearly before the tourney started and no one else had an issue with it. Further, I'd like to thank Ajax for running the tourney so well despite all the bickering.
----------------------------------------
Llama's like candy coated bunny holding a daisy and a puppy in one hand and a kitten in the other nice -Misery
avatar by Libelle / Kolibri

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LongJohnGrey wrote: 
I cannot imagine any top level sword player using only a single sword. No matter which sword you have that you are good at, it will send your opponents blocks that are good for sprinkling, or blocks that are good for striking. If your opponent is using a sword that likes what you are sending, you'll switch to your alternate backup sword that doesn't.

Then there's the RPS aspect -- do you assume that your opponent will switch to a sword that is better against what you just used, and switch yourself accordingly?

Multiple swords at high level SF is something that I take as a given. I hardly think that RD is the only one doing this. Nor do I take this as a bad thing -- being able to master multiple swords, and knowing which sword is better against which sword, are both signs of a good SF'er.
Yeah, and it's because of crap like that that I don't bother to get good at dueling. I'm a fine Swordfighter but I can't duel (SF one on one) worth crap because I don't deem memorizing all the sword patterns and micromanaging crap like what swords to use specifically against who and when the exact micro-second I should or should not be holding down the space bar much fun.
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Eyes

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LongJohnGrey wrote: 
Alright, I'm not RD's fan club or anything, but I call foul.

I'm assuming the sword finals today was Bo3.

I cannot imagine any top level sword player using only a single sword.


I use a single sword. Silverdawg uses a single sword. Trickykid uses a single sword. Rochelle uses a single sword. Shall I go on?

There are a large subset of people who use a single sword because switching is considered 'cheap' , save me the playing to win link, I've already read it. This mainly stems from the fact that to change swords in between fights in a tournament you need to have everything open, and a reasonable computer that allows you to do it quickly. Which makes it extremely apparent that changing swords isn't a design feature, its an exploit. Because this was the first OM run sword tournament that wasn't automatic, and it was no longer an 'exploit' to change swords between matches, it was asked if people wanted to allow switching. Most people said no, majority rules.

Shuranthae wrote: 
Yeah, and it's because of crap like that that I don't bother to get good at dueling. I'm a fine Swordfighter but I can't duel (SF one on one) worth crap because I don't deem memorizing all the sword patterns and micromanaging crap like what swords to use specifically against who and when the exact micro-second I should or should not be holding down the space bar much fun.


Anytime you want to duel give me a yell. I don't pattern build. I have one sword. I just build stuff and break it on the fly. And yes, I enjoy playing.
----------------------------------------

[Mar 26, 2005 2:16:29 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
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Wait, so RD forfeited? Heh.
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RobertDonald

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I was not asked my opinion on sword switching at the beginning. Naturally I oppose all such radical rule changes, especially ones driven by the participants. Naturally I would speak against it vehemently, but I was not asked.


Let me tell you a story. Several months ago, there was a tournament. The prize was a familiar. The weapon was a yellow-yellow foil. So me and my hearties practiced our hearts out at yellow-yellow foil matches, devising tactics and counter-tactics, taking the specific play of a single sword to undreamed of high levels. I won that tournament.

A month or two ago, the grand sword tournament was announced. The finals: best of 11. Ah ha, I thought, now I can do something completely different. In long matches, there is play, and counterplay. Styles clash and adapt. It seemed to me that a generalist, able to use many styles and in the end adapt to counter his opponent's, would beat the specialist, who simply did one thing repeatedly with a single sword.

So I bought all five top swords: reversed saber, falchion, reversed falchion, skull dagger, scimitar. With Eric and many others, I practiced my heart out, tried style against style. I played mind games and managed to get wild streaks by good guessing with rock, paper, scissors. And of course, sometimes not get results so fantastic. I figured out what sword countered what, and what I would do in a given situation against a given style.

Then the day of the tournament came. I checked to make sure I still had all the swords I needed; none of them had decayed. I went over my strategy: against Eric in the finals I would start with a horizontal-opening skull dagger, then RPS as necessary. For most of the people I would go saber, but against skull dagger users I would try to out-skully them, or hit them hard with a scimitar. All these things I had given immense practice and devotion to in advance.

Then, the tournament begins. I hear, "screw you, you're not allowed to do anything you practiced. You can't even use a different sword against a different person."

Screw this.
----------------------------------------
Quizzical wrote: 
If winners and losers are arbitrarily chosen by ringers or OM's, then it is no longer even a game. It's just clicking random buttons hoping to be arbitrarily chosen, which becomes stupid really fast.

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pezzazz

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What ever happened to just being good, and just duelling, not turning it into the most scientific and horrid things in the game now. Anyway, as much as I wish cancer upon all sword switchers, the rule change thrown in the end here is pretty disgusting. Being able to switch swords is an option that is available and if it's not meant to be don't let people own more than one sword. Do however look down upon people that do switch em.
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Piplicus_BNO

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pezzazz wrote: 
What ever happened to just being good, and just duelling, not turning it into the most scientific and horrid things in the game now. Anyway, as much as I wish cancer upon all sword switchers, the rule change thrown in the end here is pretty disgusting. Being able to switch swords is an option that is available and if it's not meant to be don't let people own more than one sword. Do however look down upon people that do switch em.


Personally, I dislike sword switching. But, at the top levels, it is needed.
----------------------------------------
 
What Pip tried to do was something totally unprecedent. He, in some strange way, used Midnight as a test server, without him even knowing. [Crap, it sucks I was not online when he did that :'(... pfft, anyways]


Like a bad penny.
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HuskyTed

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I just checked my log and saw that, even though you were jobbed, for some reason you didn't come aboard until right before the fighting began, Rob. So you weren't asked, true. But if this was such an egregious mistake in ruling, surely there would have been a better solution than throwing your hands up in the air and running off - maybe explaining the situation and asking for a change would have garnered a better response.
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Llama's like candy coated bunny holding a daisy and a puppy in one hand and a kitten in the other nice -Misery
avatar by Libelle / Kolibri

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