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arg60455

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YPP Growth Reply to this Post
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I have been playing puzzle pirates on and off for over 11 years now. I recently came back after probably a year or more break. I was sad to see that my home ocean (Meridian) has fallen so low player wise. I was also happy to find Dark Seas and the obsidian ocean. Unfortunately after coming back I have seen a few problems that I think need to be addressed for the game to grow.

I think that one of the biggest problems with YPP is that really, the only new content that this game sees, is a new sloop every month of so, maybe a new pet, maybe a cool color of an existing pet. While these are cool and all there lies an problem.

What if I like my current pet? What if I'm not looking for another sloop? Do I really want to do 3-4 simple things to get that month's seal of piracy to show that I did those 3-4 simple things?

If the game wants to grow I see a few main points that need to be focused on and reworked.

First is first impressions.
Most of us here on the forums have been playing the game for who knows how long and most likely haven't made a new pirate in a long while. I just came back to YPP after a decently long break, I joined the Obsidian ocean after I saw that there is only an average of 8-15 on my old home Meridian. The start of this game is very convoluted for anyone who wouldn't know what is happening or where to go.

I would say this introduction to the game needs a complete redesign to get more interest. The missions seem almost pointless, sure you may be learning the basics of a puzzle, but you only get 20 poe, which is nothing at all, and feels like nothing at all. On improvement could be do start all pirates with sticks and rags, and completing certain missions will start them off with foils and simple clothes. This would greatly improve the internal reward systems inside the new player's mind.

Second is to make standard pillys a better experience.
SMHs need to be hard, and that means that there should be something that is easier, is a good experience, and has a decent payout. This could be simply increasing the RNG of spawns, and expeditions. Or it could be a little more complex like adding a new system to the game.

One thing I think could be good is to use the currently existing expeditions and tie them together in a chain. You haul up some treasure from a sunken ship and you find a map to a island. You go to the island and forage for materials and find buried treasure. On the island you find a castaway and you bring them back to their home island. When you arrive their home island is under attack from vikings.

The mentality of the game would greatly improve, it would become an experience rather than puzzle, puzzle, different puzzle, puzzle.

Third, new stuff that means something.
Monthly the game should have new things happening. Maybe a contest, maybe a cool piece of treasure from a SMH. The game has a lot to work with that they don't really use. The brigand kings for example.

Have a month where Admiral Finius is trying to take over Port Venture. The whole month the players can find his ships all over the ocean attempting to grow in strength, and over the month the players can bring down his forces. At the end there is a large Flotilla at Port venture where Finius' strength is directly in proportion of what the players did. Additionally the staff need to keep on top of these things as they go, if the players aren't able to defeat him, Finius makes moves. He grows stronger, strong enough to go after more islands.

Most of us enjoy the game as it is, but the game is only at 200-400 people a any moment. This means that even the fun things that we more experience people enjoy, such as SMH or blockades, are very hard to do. At the very least they are not what they could be. A blockade should be 3-4 flags battling each other with several ships each. Not 2 Frigates sinking each other, and getting on the next Frigate.

To do this the game needs to grow, the staff needs to put more into making Puzzle Pirates a fun experience, not just for the current players, but for new players too. For the long time players, waiting for and hour to load for an Cit run is fine and dandy. Playing the same puzzles for 1-3 hours after that is also fine. New players aren't hooked like we are, and won't have fun doing that until they get hooked.

Edit as I was writing this with little time:

My overall point is the game has some good existing content that is just sitting there. A few tweaks to certain things, like the BKs and expeditions, could vastly improve the overall gameplay experience.

To the people who may say they don't want big changes and like the game the way it currently stands. I hear you, I understand you, and I respect your feelings, but the game does need to grow in order for the player base to grow. What the game is currently, and frankly what it has been for a long time, is great fun to those of us who are already hooked, but is not good enough to bring in and keep new people.
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The player's experience should be the primary focus of any type of game development.

- Blondberd on any ocean
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[Edit 3 times, last edit by arg60455 at Mar 7, 2018 10:30:42 AM]
[Mar 6, 2018 9:36:25 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
arg60455

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I was looking at the wiki page for Brigand Kings and I realized that some of the things I had brought up are already in the game code. BKs growing in power before a Flotilla, effecting islands depending on if they win and so on.

Which brings up a new question. If this stuff is already in the game, why don't we see this stuff more? These kinds of things could add a lot to the game world and make the oceans feel more alive.

If it's a matter of making it sometime the players would want to do, maybe add Brigand and Barbarian King designs for ships. You can win trinkets and stuff from the BKs why not be able to put that toward a BK themed ship?
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The player's experience should be the primary focus of any type of game development.

- Blondberd on any ocean
[Mar 7, 2018 10:40:33 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Filthyjake

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Re: YPP Growth Reply to this Post
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I was looking at the wiki page for Brigand Kings and I realized that some of the things I had brought up are already in the game code. BKs growing in power before a Flotilla, effecting islands depending on if they win and so on.

Which brings up a new question. If this stuff is already in the game, why don't we see this stuff more? These kinds of things could add a lot to the game world and make the oceans feel more alive.

If it's a matter of making it sometime the players would want to do, maybe add Brigand and Barbarian King designs for ships. You can win trinkets and stuff from the BKs why not be able to put that toward a BK themed ship?



 
Flotillas will be constant nodes of Brigand King focus.


Would seem they would be there and then attacking the islands be we have only seen them twice I posted a tread here about it
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Filthyjake all oceans (Obsidian Primary)
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[Mar 7, 2018 11:38:53 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Whyknot7



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Re: YPP Growth Reply to this Post
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Totall agree with Arg455.
New things should be completely new, the whole game turned into a trinket storage.
Some dynamics should be totally changed.

Hey forum tarts, your part starts here;

I.e pillages ; the crew changes effect booty dramatically that is no sense. Please rem?ve that asap. Mostly 150 average players online in emerald. How can there be no crew change with any ship bigger then sloop.?
Also please check the bad bnav start positions posted in forum countless times. You get a good streak and dig for treasure and bam. U start in a seabattle trapped with rocks and winds. Pillage finishes.

For smh;

Could you please raise treasure haul value so ppl would start to think its worth poe for badge + 3 hour constant puzzling???? Not even mentioning the ship deed risked.If u designed atlantis for cit runs only i have no objection. There is no way to fill anythg bigger then WB so please make those trike corpses abit worthy??? Forum tarts might start ? you must both hunt and do the cits? .. just shut the ... up. I know what im talking abt.

Start quoting and tarting

Fair winds
Whyknot
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Whyknot7 at Mar 8, 2018 3:23:18 AM]
[Mar 8, 2018 3:18:45 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Fransil

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Re: YPP Growth Reply to this Post
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The game is pretty out of sync with today's gaming needs/wants. Especially in the case of a game based around "puzzles".

Nobody wants to wait more than a minute(5 tops?) for matchmaking/filling a lobby. And woah boats here may take 2hrs+ and still end up cancelling...And if you do end up filling you are expected to grind for atleast hours at the same crap.

I would bring up that Sid guy's point about enabling skilled/elite bots to counter the dumb load times. Then again, that Faulkston fellow stated it has been deemed a dead end by the devs in some recent?.. thread.

When people look up puzzle games nobody expects to find a MMO based around them. It's all this game has going for it sadly. That in mind, the majority still wouldn't be willing to grind/play a puzzle mmo like a standard grind to death mmo....which this game more or less is at the end of the day.

I would also /not/ like to bring up the point about how hot everyone is about the PvP on this playerless game. From the old salts to the new guys to the Developers. Wow. So much focus on a feature which the player count can't even support xD
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[Mar 8, 2018 7:50:01 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Filthyjake

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he game is pretty out of sync with today's gaming needs/wants. Especially in the case of a game based around "puzzles".


I see this as the appeal for the the as it is different then the rest. It won't compete with the modern versions of the games as the graphics are out dated as well as a bunch of other reasons. Its one of the appeals to the game for me. I love the puzzles and the grind.

 
I would bring up that Sid guy's point about enabling skilled/elite bots to counter the dumb load times. Then again, that Faulkston fellow stated it has been deemed a dead end by the devs in some recent?.. thread.


They need to stop ignoring it the game it could have easily have 500 players like me who just want to play alone most of the time, I don't like the whole social side of the game, or the politics and the answer offered is navey or swabie which pays like crap and the routes are to short, but still fun to do. I swabie ships all the time just to sail or patch. i long ago gave up on running things because the gunners allays leave after 2-5 battles or people just laze.... Sids ideas fix a lot of the games issues if not the number one issue a lack of players. They still have the players split be twine two oceans compounding the problem as well.

 
I would also /not/ like to bring up the point about how hot everyone is about the PvP on this playerless game. From the old salts to the new guys to the Developers. Wow. So much focus on a feature which the player count can't even support xD


Can you expand on this I haven't heard much about it? xD
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Filthyjake all oceans (Obsidian Primary)
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Casual player or yet another who moved on.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Filthyjake at Mar 8, 2018 8:44:20 AM]
[Mar 8, 2018 8:42:49 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
arg60455

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The game is pretty out of sync with today's gaming needs/wants. Especially in the case of a game based around "puzzles".


This is one of the big things for me. There needs to be a revamp in how this game goes about the players mindset. If puzzle pirates wants to grow, not even to what it was just better than it is now, it needs to revamp how it treats new players. There needs to be small things to hook them.

23 pieces of eight is not enough to hook anyone. 16 isn't either. Getting people interested in the game needs to be a focus of the Devs. We are here, we keep coming back. We like this game already. For me that was largely due to when I started playing.

Some of my best memories of the game we the new things. When Atlantis was introduced that was epic. At the time those first voyages into unknown waters were magical.

Going back to one of my ideas, imagine you are a new player. You make your pirate and you have nothing but rags and a stick. This is where your story as a dashing rogue of the sea starts. You get a mission to try sword fighting where an old scallywag on a boat fights you with a stick, after you get the hang enough to beat him he rewards you with your first sword. Even though it's just a foil it's a start.

Get rid of the mess of the missions page cluttered with a conglomerate of text everywhere. Make it easier to learn the puzzles. Replace the missions with less and more refined missions that give you better rewards. Have the missions actually teach how the game works in a clean simple way. One mission for Rigs and Sails, one for patching and carp, explain how these effect the ship. These are where your pirate can finally get rid of his rags and put on his new clothes.

Little meaningless things like that will not effect the game play for any of the current players, but it would give a better experience for a new player who wants to test this game out.

I'll bring this up again, the game needs new things switching things up. Things that don't take 2 hours to sit and wait for. It would be work but adding a new SMH specially for the Longship/Fanchuan medium range ships could be good. Filling 12-20 people would be a lot easier than 30 or so.
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The player's experience should be the primary focus of any type of game development.

- Blondberd on any ocean
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by arg60455 at Mar 8, 2018 10:02:58 PM]
[Mar 8, 2018 9:59:39 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Devonin

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I put a bunch of work into a very elaborate post about a bunch of suggestions to try and improve the experience for new players, and most of the reaction was "nothing" and "How dare you suggest pvp isn't the only thing we need"

I should go find it since this is still coming up without the ringers seeming to want to do anything.
[Mar 8, 2018 10:09:53 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
joshuawhelan

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I'd probably play this game a lot more often if it didn't require me to a.) sit around for half an hour while a ship loads with real people and b.) didn't require me to commit 2+ hours to something as a jobber to avoid being blacklisted by whoever is running it. For example, by the time a SMH has ported I've spent 3 - 4 hours doing a repetitive puzzle, being bored to tears by the end of it, just to earn enough PoE to buy a new pair of boots. The people who are likely to enjoy an outdated grind concept like this have far better alternatives today. Most new games on Steam also don't look like some spreadsheet software from the '90s.

On top of this, the average number of games in people's Steam library, across every user on Steam, is 11. Why are new people going to play PP, which requires them to wait for hours to actually play the game, when they can just open up and instantly play a different & equally entertaining game instead?

People can advertise, positively review, make their friends play etc all they like. It doesn't change the fundamental flaws that drive people away. There have been dozens of opportunities over the past fifteen years to keep the game competitive. Instead of just maintaining PP, the original developers instead decided to make crap like Whirled & Bang! Howdy. They sunk $millions in projects that were an instant flop.

Long story short, it's too late for PP. By this point it's over a decade behind the games it's competing with for people's time.
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[Mar 9, 2018 4:11:25 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Filthyjake

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I'd probably play this game a lot more often if it didn't require me to a.) sit around for half an hour while a ship loads with real people and b.) didn't require me to commit 2+ hours to something as a jobber to avoid being blacklisted by whoever is running it. For example, by the time a SMH has ported I've spent 3 - 4 hours doing a repetitive puzzle, being bored to tears by the end of it, just to earn enough PoE to buy a new pair of boots. The people who are likely to enjoy an outdated grind concept like this have far better alternatives today. Most new games on Steam also don't look like some spreadsheet software from the '90s.


This is a huge problem, I as a father I don't allays have 3-4 hours where I can be left alone. Also as a father I don't like my teenager telling me he has to wait 2 hours to do what I have asked of him, because of a video game.... Since I started playing I understand more but still its sad when the game tells you you have been playing ot long and your still loading a ship and haven't even left port.

 
People can advertise, positively review, make their friends play etc all they like. It doesn't change the fundamental flaws that drive people away. There have been dozens of opportunities over the past fifteen years to keep the game competitive.


I have seen this repeated over by other people as well, the bugs are not fixed, other issues ignored. It seems to me the focuses have been off point, and in stead of fixing/growing the game the developments have been ways to make it pretty. We need a new gunning puzzle way more then a new fam yet we have so many fam's we don't need more... now with hats... some with vests? JMHO. New ship coming out, despite a broken pvp system (in my opinion) portals that don't work on obsidian, People claiming their mouse has gotten them banned. Many players have chosen to accept it and play anyway I was even told to do the same over and over. I am not against a new ship new ocean or new fam even but fix whats broken, leave whats great. Obsidian made some really great fixes then failed on some big ones.

 
Long story short, it's too late for PP. By this point it's over a decade behind the games it's competing with for people's time.
I don't think so they need to fix some things, perhaps a post of top 3 things good about obsidan and 3 bad would help, I won't make it I catch enough flack anyway. I think they need to regroup do a conversation, poll or what ever. PvP issue is a big one, Its the focus of the new ocean... is that really what the masses of people want? How is that for growth and the new player, yes those of us who have been around for a long time can find it fun, but steam reviews have called it out and people claimed they felt bullied, and sunk. I can see that but its a pvp environment, the issue is the new player plays for a week or so to even make enough poe for a ship then its sunk the first time they sail it. I wouldn't stay either, but I already am hooked, I just don't sail ships (but the game needs jobbers too).
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Filthyjake all oceans (Obsidian Primary)
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[Mar 9, 2018 4:51:41 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
arg60455

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...I as a father I don't allays have 3-4 hours where I can be left alone. Also as a father I don't like my teenager telling me he has to wait 2 hours to do what I have asked of him, because of a video game....


I think this here is what the Ringers really need to focus on. This game has always had the problem that it takes so much time invested to achieve anything at all. I mean literally anything.

They should maybe make the navy mean something. Let there be better rewards for being on a navy ship, let BKs attack navy ships or something. Have the navy run SMH where you have to reach a certain rank in the navy to take part in. Overall make all these pay ok but not great, and up the pay and difficulty for player SMHs.

If you did this then people who only have an hour here or there can still get their daily dose of PP, it still is worth it with a decent payout. When they have more time, then for sure they wait an load for a player SMH, and get a better payout.

Say you see an option on the mission board:"Explore with the navy!" You have reach a high rank in the navy so you can hop on board, the ship is filled with slightly above grade NPCs. You sail out and enter Atlantis, you make it to a Cit, fight it and leave. Not a super great payout, but it's something, and it's short.

Maybe have the Navy running these on a set schedule, say on the hour.
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The player's experience should be the primary focus of any type of game development.

- Blondberd on any ocean
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by arg60455 at Mar 9, 2018 9:59:29 AM]
[Mar 9, 2018 9:56:11 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Filthyjake

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...I as a father I don't allays have 3-4 hours where I can be left alone. Also as a father I don't like my teenager telling me he has to wait 2 hours to do what I have asked of him, because of a video game....


I think this here is what the Ringers really need to focus on. This game has always had the problem that it takes so much time invested to achieve anything at all. I mean literally anything.

They should maybe make the navy mean something. Let there be better rewards for being on a navy ship, let BKs attack navy ships or something. Have the navy run SMH where you have to reach a certain rank in the navy to take part in. Overall make all these pay ok but not great, and up the pay and difficulty for player SMHs.

If you did this then people who only have an hour here or there can still get their daily dose of PP, it still is worth it with a decent payout. When they have more time, then for sure they wait an load for a player SMH, and get a better payout.

Say you see an option on the mission board:"Explore with the navy!" You have reach a high rank in the navy so you can hop on board, the ship is filled with slightly above grade NPCs. You sail out and enter Atlantis, you make it to a Cit, fight it and leave. Not a super great payout, but it's something, and it's short.

Maybe have the Navy running these on a set schedule, say on the hour.


Well here is another thought I have had on this, Blockaide run 3 hours and we don't hear the same complaint. I think it would be a great addition to the game to force a 10 minute break every hour, If the captin wants to control it they have a button they can hit at the end of a battle before stats get destroyed that calls the break. If they do not when the time counts down the break goes into effect, this will allow players to feed a dog, feed a kid, grab a drink/smoke, and stand up and do 10 jumping jacks while saying they love puzzle pirates, or even jump on the forums and poke a friend. I enjoy kades for the fun, they are the same as smh's for me as the prizes don't matter the big difference is the break, even better if they could re job during the break even in a smh, then we can fill a GF some day lol.
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Filthyjake all oceans (Obsidian Primary)
Filthyjake6145 (discord)
?Retired? On a Break? I found a new love...
Casual player or yet another who moved on.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Filthyjake at Mar 9, 2018 10:10:45 AM]
[Mar 9, 2018 10:05:42 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
arg60455

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Another suggestion is to add an upvote system to the forums so people can thumbs up good ideas like this.

A forced break from a SMH would be great, just like you said, they can re-job, or just have a break. I would say the only point I would make is The ship couldn't leave during a break like that, it would have to wait through the break and the ship would be back where it was before the break, and then they would have to sail out. Otherwise players could use them to leave when they might have sunk a few turns after the break happened.

Another option, allowing players to just go onto a ship during the minute long breaks that already exist. SMHs need to be tweaked, with the low amount of players the game currently has the ringers need to make some changes to make it easier for the players to play the game.
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The player's experience should be the primary focus of any type of game development.

- Blondberd on any ocean
[Mar 9, 2018 10:36:30 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
cmdrzoom

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This game was, for better or worse, built under the MMO paradigm of the 00s, where play sessions of 30 minutes or more were typical and it was not at all unusual to expect or require dozens of people to assemble and work together for an hour or more in order to take down a raid boss, etc.

These days, it just doesn't work like that anymore. The rise of mobile devices effectively de-aggregated all the puzzles that the game put together under one umbrella (which was one of its selling points). The "new" paradigm, which is actually a decade old or more by now, is to check your phone, play a couple of rounds of "Sailing" or "Alchemy" or whatever, and then put it away again to finish your shopping or check Twitter or whatevs.

(Also, you know, the Pirates of the Caribbean movies were in theaters, the economy was good and people felt better about buying doubloons, etc etc.)

I love this game, still do, but it's a relic of another time. I doubt we're ever going to see a resurgence or return to those days, and I don't know how to adapt it to today beyond simply, e.g., making stand-alone, zero-context versions of all the various puzzles.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by cmdrzoom at Mar 10, 2018 6:26:51 PM]
[Mar 10, 2018 6:16:59 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Devonin

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You could even put in some basic context: Put them on a ship, have it be in "battle" where depending on which puzzle they picked to play, something happens to the ship every 30 seconds to "make damage" or "change the wind" or "take on water" to keep the puzzle going, and just give them a high score list they can see their friends on, and voila.
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