| Welcome Guest | Login |
Index
| Recent Threads
| Register
| Search
| Help
| 
| View Unanswered Threads
|
 |
Forums » List all forums » Forum: Game Design » Thread: What really is the point of Obsidian? |
|
Thread Status: Normal Total posts in this thread: 67
|
[Add To My Favorites] [Watch this Thread] [Post new Thread] |
| Author |
|
|
Onelegstan
|
The title says it all really. This ocean has been out for nearly two months now and what have we seen in this time? - A decline in population since it was first released on every ocean on the game. - No real difference between gameplay on Obsidian and other oceans. - No big releases on Obsidian to change the game and actually make it feel different - Rising dub prices that again make people not want to play. At present this ocean is going no where, nobody is going to want to play it when it is released on steam. Was this ocean just made to get a final big income before it is shut down for good? ---------------------------------------- Martyhur on Emerald Marty on Obsidian |
||
|
|
Raalala
Joined: Mar 6, 2008 Posts: 640 Status: Offline |
Isn't it still in testing? And not actually floated on Steam yet? Are you suggesting they pluck new players out of thin air? ---------------------------------------- ~ Bambeh Johnydepp says; 'BatBam, your f-ing play on words fetish' Priapus says; 'Mate, look at his screen, you could play chess on that.' Avatar by Seapint! |
||
|
|
TexasBeesh
Joined: Oct 14, 2005 Posts: 1754 Status: Offline |
Aren't the other oceans on steam too? I am not sure if this going "live" is going to help. ---------------------------------------- Seatexan - on the Midnight side of Cerulean LOW RACK PRICES AT DRESSED TO KILL - NAMATH Always looking for Pollack Sloops! |
||
|
|
Darkings
|
C'mon it was pretty obvious from the start that this was going to happen. I'm really was hoping for a gameplay revamp with this new ocean but with the current mindset this wont be happening any time soon. This is my point of view you are free to disagree but the player count doesn't lie , the main problem with puzzle pirates its the time it takes to do an activity with profit, or in other words not wasting time. If we are trying to attract new players from this new generation its obvious we can't use the same strategy that didn't work this past decade. And yes I'm asking to change the game core. Let me try to explain this (not fluent with English ) Puzzle pirates has an unique form of playing witch requires an absurd amount of hours to understand and even more to play, for example Atlantis one of the first SMH activity reached a point were people need at least 1h30 to play ( not mentioning filling time ) this is so bad for the game and let me explain why: -It makes players play a puzzle for 1h+ straight, witch eventually will lead a lot of players to bot. -Leaving a run early will damage your chance to be jobbed again, this is so bad because some players will prioritize this game over real life and that only brings problem in the long run. -I have a couple of friends that wont log in simply because they don't have time to do the SMH activity they enjoy and don't want to waste days on badges This one is atrocious imo The Ghost activity one is the same CI This is my favorite activity and I will say it screams elitism every way you see. And the problem is players are forced to be elitist because its awfull to bring a noob in your run, simply because a simple mistake can ruin an entire run. One way this could be worked around is to make booty division by player performance in the island, so if a noob makes a mistake the elite player wont suffer that much and will be willing to take the risk to bring new players on the next run. This doesn't solve the issue but its a start. Kraken When this came out I was so happy, finally an activity that don't requires more than 30 minutes per entry, this is what we need simple activities that don't require mindless hours playing the same puzzle and reward the player for the time they spent. Heck this is the only activity ultimate oriented players can socialize with ease without damaging ranking/booty, but they are probably using 3 or 4 clients on the same kraken run... Anyway the new players won't have a chance to try this simply because they will likely give up before having the requirements to be jobbed on any of this runs, and that's one of the big issues that I do not have an answer since I defend the elitism mentality and I don't like to 'waste' my time, this is my personality so arguing with me won't do any good since I will ignore it, but I do agree something has to be done if we want to keep new players. Ok now back to the gameplay revamp I mention early, the activities have to change time wise, with this I mean a 15 minute run needs to be as much profitable as a 1h+ run proportionality. example: 1h atlantis = 20k, 15 minutes pillage = 5k This will solve the mentality of those players that only have a short amount of time to play Player A has 3 hours straight to play will likely choose atlantis, Player B has 3 hours spread in 30 minutes sessions in the day will likely play pillage. So player B won't have the excuse to not log in and waste a badge day since he can now have a nice profit in those 30 minutes. I understand that this will change the way players play the game, but what else can we do ? Its clear the current set up isn't working so might as well test this theory on the beta while we still have time and players... There's no point in testing late game when there's serious issues to solve on early game ( basically what new players will experience). I highly doubt steam will help boost and maintain the player count but a little voice inside me is begging that it works out since I really enjoy this game, but I have to be honest we have to change the game core if we want this project to be successful. |
||
|
|
Filthyjake
Joined: Jun 14, 2012 Posts: 1115 Status: Offline |
The title says it all really. This ocean has been out for nearly two months now and what have we seen in this time? - A decline in population since it was first released on every ocean on the game. This didn't surprise me much as lots came to look and its to much time to play two oceans, sadly its left Emerald (the last of the surviving oceans) in rough shape. - No real difference between gameplay on Obsidian and other oceans. - No big releases on Obsidian to change the game and actually make it feel different I didn't expect one the only notable change I noticed was negative in the scoring curve seems ways off, can go from fine saills back to incred back to fine in a 3 league points. Not sure what a normal test time is but I feel its past time to see it launch and see it sink or swim. - Rising dub prices that again make people not want to play. Yup I am there right now, asking my self should I invest in the bootched boxes on Obsidian because the free to play is destroyed if you need labor alts for shops (Yes I am aware its not a need but was trying to help develop an economy). Now badges dusted dubs are so high that the break even point is 36 poe per hr. causing labor that are not my alts to go dormant for the most part dried up. Prices of supply are high as labor and commodities, are lacking and prices rising. SMH runners are pulling back as they can't get jobbers at a rate that allows them to make a fair profit/risk as some have expressed. Jobbers don't want to job for low pay either. At present this ocean is going no where, nobody is going to want to play it when it is released on steam. I think some are there now and we didn't hit release many rushed into mem the ocean and that is now done. I find little to actually do on the ocean other then stand around waiting for something to do... Was this ocean just made to get a final big income before it is shut down for good? I don't think so. As the investment would probably be greater then the profits as of now If they wanted that kading would open, allowing those who dump large amounts of real money into dubs to basically buy an island with cash not to mention deliver those larger ships and build shops, ect... I think the purpose of Obsidian really was to offer the current player base a new ocean to be fair to the Meridian players. As they would not have to come into emerald broke. This way everyone is broke sadly the dub prices are so high to keep playing at the way I want to I would need to invest cash every few months just to keep up. I don't want to nor am I going to until it hits steam as I am not sure if the game will fly or flop, and I personally don't care for steam. I also greatly miss real poker stakes which leaves me very bored when loading any SMH. ---------------------------------------- Filthyjake all oceans (Obsidian Primary) Filthyjake6145 (discord) ?Retired? On a Break? I found a new love... Casual player or yet another who moved on. ---------------------------------------- [Edit 1 times, last edit by Filthyjake at Aug 24, 2017 2:23:49 PM] |
||
|
|
Forculus
Developer Joined: Mar 30, 2011 Posts: 397 Status: Offline |
I know it feels like not much is changing on Obsidian recently, but we're currently working on preparing for the Steam release so that Dark Seas has the best chance of attracting new players into the Puzzle Pirates community. A lot of this work involves things that can't really be beta tested on Obsidian. But once we hit Steam (soon!) we'll be positioned to make whatever changes are necessary to keep the game exciting and thriving. Also, keep in mind that school just started back up, which always corresponds to a bit of a drop in player numbers around this time of year. This is just a normal part of the yearly cycle for Puzzle Pirates. |
||
|
|
majestrate
Joined: Feb 18, 2005 Posts: 3958 Status: Offline |
Forculus, you are ruining the HWFO around here. Please cease with logic and only respond emotionally. /sarcasm Thank you for the response. A quick clarification to "we'll be positioned to make whatever changes are necessary...", I am going to assume that this means what GH feels is necessary. I say this to prevent players saying "the community [all 15 forum posters that agreed] feels change xyz is needed, but it hasn't been done, I thought you said...". I also believe that something missing from your post is the point that a number of the more visible changes that differentiate Dark Seas from the normal game revolve around blockades, and since those haven't yet opened up (hopefully they will remain closed until the Steam release), the game seems only minimally different to most players. ---------------------------------------- #TeamEvil
Avatar by the gracious and wonderful Phaerie <3 |
|||||
|
|
majestrate
Joined: Feb 18, 2005 Posts: 3958 Status: Offline |
Sorry for the double-post, I had ignored the post by Filthyjake because of the text-wall, but went back and skimmed it after realizing that half the text-wall was quotes.
I don't understand how you came to this conclusion after GH announced Dark Seas with this:
You can also see the "Reasons" section by reading the rest of the post: https://forums.puzzlepirates.com/community/mvnforum/viewthread?thread=206204#2703481 ---------------------------------------- #TeamEvil
Avatar by the gracious and wonderful Phaerie <3 ---------------------------------------- [Edit 1 times, last edit by majestrate at Aug 24, 2017 4:43:15 PM] |
|||||||
|
|
Filthyjake
Joined: Jun 14, 2012 Posts: 1115 Status: Offline |
I came to this conclusion because while a business can spin things one way other motivations also can also be hidden. Not saying this is the case just observing what I actually can see with my eyes, and my experience playing. The rules at this time are very similar with few exceptions which we can't or wont see till on steam only time will tell however I guess I expected the test to be of the new version Dark Sea's is almost exactly like the other dub oceans. I have seen no story other then two boards on the dock that I skimmed and forgot about. So for me this ocean isn't any different then playing on Merid as I started on Emerald, with the exception of sinky pvps. ---------------------------------------- Filthyjake all oceans (Obsidian Primary) Filthyjake6145 (discord) ?Retired? On a Break? I found a new love... Casual player or yet another who moved on. |
|||||||
|
|
jevy12
Joined: Nov 21, 2005 Posts: 323 Status: Offline |
I do not believe there has ever been an issue for attracting new players to this game. We all at one point saw this game and thought it looked fun without any fancy advertising. The issue lies with how do we quickly incorporate these new people into the society of PP and further allow them to see the quick benefits to make them stay. The last steam release did not consider this. One idea to help incoporating the new members Most games will open up to a new player by setting particular tasks for monetary rewards. Currently, the game does the same in the form of the navy etc. however the reward is a negligible amount in consideration of the prices. I understand raising this would be open to abuse, however, that must be considered as a negative to a series positives. Further to this, it could be used in the format of tasks and achievements, whereby conducting their first pillage for example, minimum 5 battles rewards them with 10,000 PoE, or the first time they fill a war frig they get a trophy and 20,000 PoE The rewards need to be worthy for the effort and be a effective amount in relation to the current market. Prevent elitism Elitism is a huge problem and is a big put off to people who do not have the time or incentive to achieve the standards of puzzling required to bilge on someones 12th SMH in 1 day. Though it is understanding whereby if you a performing at incredible in sailing to get X number of moves per 30 seconds is proportionally lower for each score. It must be toned down, for all puzzles, it fundamentally forces people to be selective when picking people. If you're a new person, you see the jobbing board and look at that big SMH on the big ship thinking "woah i want to try that", we all know it is the best aspect of the game in terms of profit etc and jobber satisfaction. But no new person will be on that? It's the same 45 people who puzzle for the same person because they didn't sink in one SMH 4 years ago. - Also, is there a help guide for greenie going into an SMH? Similar to when you first start. Maybe this would be big plus to helping new people understand. Banned Pirates You wants a fresh start, give banned pirates a second chance. I understand there are people who will wilfully break the rules of the game and that is something that will have to be dealt with as and when. However, I am sure there are a number of people who were banned for a stupid thing they did 6 years ago when they were in school and now are working adults and want a second chance on this new ocean. Give them this chance, develop some for a probationary period where any violation within 6 months auto-bans. Where they behave, you will have gained another fully active pirate who will make a positive contribution to the game. Truely embrace factions If you are going to use factions, do not limit the influence of a faction by a weekly blockade. Ensure the battle is on-going throughout the week. I recently proposed a PvP format, whereby teams can only consist of factions/flags/crews in one team. See: http://forums.puzzlepirates.com/community/mvnforum/viewthread?p=2711314#2711314 What I feel could be interesting is using the idea linked, maybe non wagering, extends the influence of a particular faction across the seas surrounding the island. Where faction v faction, if the Shadow fleet wins on Port venture, their influence in the surrounding seas increases. Increasing the influence may increase tax income, it could give warning as to when enemy ships enter your territory. I.e. if A sloop enters, flag members controlling the island get a warning saying "an enemy ship has entered your territory holding a lot of booty", this could be an incentive to get people to go out an attack. This is just my ideas off the top of my head. However, my general point is there needs to be bigger changes. At the moment its the same people, who want the same game. I tried to induce a recent SMH pvp, only to be met by a guy who saw it as a personal offence and made me out to be some criminal. This is a big issue, and more people like him should be banned as they a cancerous to this game. ---------------------------------------- Jevons Finally leaving. ---------------------------------------- [Edit 1 times, last edit by jevy12 at Aug 25, 2017 1:19:40 AM] |
|||
|
|
Onelegstan
|
the last point of this is just not true, ocean population has been declining since week 1 Why release it on steam yet though? So many people are posting saying parts of the game are broken and it makes old school players not want to play, so why would any new players from steam stay for long enough? Yes when it is released people will come and play at the start, but this is no use if they all just leave again after a week. you have to make this ocean more attractive to new players before the steam release!!! The most important things to fix: 1. Find a way to get rid of all the ****ing bots!!!! 2. Fix scoring on basically every puzzle. E.g. Why does the 2x 5 pieces only start to appear at very high legendary in Shipwrights? 3. DO SOMETHING ABOUT DUB PRICES!! Please, like seriously please. 4. I made a post about PvP which you commented on saying you were listening, but nothing has been done about this at all? Same with many other suggestions. Why has the only changes to come out on this ocean in the past month been enabling 2 shacks and persimmon enamel, it's an absolute joke. ---------------------------------------- Martyhur on Emerald Marty on Obsidian ---------------------------------------- [Edit 1 times, last edit by Onelegstan at Aug 25, 2017 3:04:28 AM] |
|||
|
|
Odyn9
Joined: Jul 23, 2017 Posts: 48 Status: Offline |
I like your idea of an achievement system. Maybe give a small bit of poe for every trophy earned? Add a coffer to a ship that automatically pays out a set amount of poe to jobbers scoring at excellent/incredible Games nowadays need the instant gratification factor to retain a playerbase it seems. ---------------------------------------- Zaye - Emerald Odyn - Obsidian -Seven Deadliest Sins- avatar by Cattrin |
|||
|
|
majestrate
Joined: Feb 18, 2005 Posts: 3958 Status: Offline |
So then in your mind Disney isn't really opening a Star Wars themed hotel because you can't go visit it this very moment. There is no new Star Wars/Marvel/DC movie coming out down the road, because you can't go watch it right now. I get corporate distrust, but to think that Dark Seas and normal Y!PP are the same game is silly. SMH rotation. Factions. Automatic war between factions. The arrrt (have you gone island exploring?). It has a different feel. Yes the mechanics are the same, but the environment and the play-style are not.
First, if you are saying that the Obsidian population has been declining since week 1 you are simply wrong. Second, Forculus didn't say that the start of the school year was the *only* reason for a population drop, merely that it is a contribution to it. And he is absolutely correct. It's been happening since at least 2005. IIRC, the rebound starts in late November, early December, then drops again in mid-late January/early February. I could be wrong on those guesses, but there very much is a population increase/decrease that follows the typical school year. ---------------------------------------- #TeamEvil
Avatar by the gracious and wonderful Phaerie <3 |
|||||||||||||||
|
|
EmpressTamar
Joined: May 7, 2012 Posts: 830 Status: Offline |
Most of my friends (including myself) stopped playing last week because college started again. This happens EVERY year. I'm sure there are other reasons for a dropping population, but the school year is a primary one. ---------------------------------------- Empresstamar of Emerald. Yppedia page Gorgeous avatar by by Cattrin <3 |
||
|
|
yorkyblue
Joined: Oct 13, 2004 Posts: 367 Status: Offline |
Early access? Some early access games can be among the top games on steam while developers are still sorting bugs and adding content to the game. Games like ARK has been out for over 2 years in early access and is usually among the top 5 or 10 games being played on there. While it's a completely different game it's just an example of what early access can do for a game. ---------------------------------------- a Song for the Deaf.
|
|||||||
|
|
Odyn9
Joined: Jul 23, 2017 Posts: 48 Status: Offline |
They could early access dark seas, that isn't a bad idea. ---------------------------------------- Zaye - Emerald Odyn - Obsidian -Seven Deadliest Sins- avatar by Cattrin |
|||||||
|
|
Cutingchris
Joined: Nov 8, 2008 Posts: 83 Status: Offline |
I believe the word "soon" implies that they want to find as many bugs/issues as possible and fix them before release. ---------------------------------------- Magneto - Emerald Cutingchris - |
|||||
|
|
wrestle691
|
Ya school has kept this game one foot in the grave for the past 5 years haha. Don't make excuses. Fix the broken dubloon RMT and broken economy before you put it on steam or you will blow your one shot to make an impression. |
|||
|
|
Strider399
Joined: Feb 9, 2006 Posts: 2254 Status: Offline |
I have said it many times before and I'll continue to say it: The biggest issue facing the game right now is the absurd amount of time we're expected to wait in port to fill anything bigger than a sloop for the various voyages available to us. When I say "absurd amount of time", I mean any wait of more than 10 minutes. A corollary of this issue is the amount of people that are expected to act as "peons" for any given voyage to leave port and the number of people that can be "leaders". If you want to attract active players you need to give us the ability to load ships with swabbies and a handful of real players so that we don't spend 2 hours trying to load a War Frig for atlantis. In a world where I can open up Player Unkown's Battlegrounds (for example) and wait no more than 2 minutes to be in a match, anything more than a 5 minute wait to do a voyage type that interests you is absurd. Nobody "plays" a game to just sit around on their computer doing literally nothing for an hour straight. The solution is blindingly obvious: Paid swabbies. Here's the basic outline I posted a few weeks ago that got locked since it's a repeat thread. Read it. Implement it. You'll see growth. ---------------------------------------- Sid on Obsidian Striderrs everywhere else |
||
|
|
Scarpath
Joined: Sep 7, 2014 Posts: 246 Status: Offline |
Actually, one thing that has really cut down on the number of 'leaders' is the increased difficultly of spawns in the Wild Seas. Now inexperienced or under-skilled navigators can not run a successful pillage worth more than about 1k per player per battle. And it has affected the load times greatly. While Obsidian player counts continue to drop, the load times still haven't gotten nearly as bad as they were with other oceans at that population. I suspect that if/when more players show up, we will finally be able to load very quickly. ---------------------------------------- Scarpath on Emerald, Cerulean, and Meridian! Also Scarpath on Obsidian, Defiant to the core. Your grammar should at least be as good as mine, take the time to make it decent! |
|||
|
|
smexi4u
Joined: Sep 19, 2008 Posts: 160 Status: Offline |
from the very start this ocean has been half arsed, to get a growing play base you need to be aiming at the younger generations, and this game has no intensive for them to play, what 14 yr old is gonna come home from school to play fkn puzzles over the like of cod fifa or the online final fantasy xiv thats gone cross consuls and PC. 10yrs ago this game was great but now its just so far out of date with what people are playing and willing to play, in all honesty this game after being dumbed down a bit would be great for our old fokes in the nursing homes puzzles are mind stimulating for them and is just the thing nurses to look use in the aid of helping with the likes of demntia. playing for god knows how long now and the issues have been the same for as long as i can remember it has become a case of to little to late. permer bans for no reason (yes other games have this but then alow for people to just make new accounts and play from there) playing the same puzzle for god knows how meny hours non stop gets old very very fast. then waiting hrs for smh or what ever to load is the biggest joke there is. 5min on ffxiv and ur doing anything there is.. 1.30hr on pp and its highly likely you have done scupper all besides looking at ur screen. If it is filtered in-game, it should be filtered on the forums. - Faulkston ---------------------------------------- Zadkiel on Obsidian, SO of Polaris. Avatar by darkfairy ---------------------------------------- [Edit 1 times, last edit by Faulkston at Aug 27, 2017 11:14:07 PM] |
||
|
|
Geooff_
|
I think this is a fantastic idea! I think if this game wants truly reinvent itself it needs to be gazed on with some fresh sets of eyes and considered from everyones prospective. So much of the conversation that goes on in these forums comes from seasoned vets that already stuck in their ways and have a strong notion as to how the game should be played. These are NOT the people that can understand how game changes will be perceived by new players. If we all jumped to an early access release of the game, the initial hype should be enough to attract some fresh sets of eyes to provide feedback from new players. Something else I would like to see introduced into the game that is pulling from OSRS (A game from the same time period that successfully reinvented itself) is the implementation of a polling feature. Taking some of the ideas from this forum that the developer sees as viable and getting the players to vote if they would like them introduced to the game. This helps to make the players feel like they're part of the development process, gives the players a sense of ownership to the game and helps to increase and encourage conversations within the community. |
|||
|
|
Forculus
Developer Joined: Mar 30, 2011 Posts: 397 Status: Offline |
We will most likely start with Early Access as a way to begin pulling new players into the game, and to start testing the blockade and island management changes that are included in Dark Seas. This will also help us get some additional feedback from brand new players that have never tried Puzzle Pirates, so that we can make any necessary changes before moving ahead with the official Steam release. The Early Access phase should help with both the doubloon exchange and the loading times affecting Obsidian at the moment. |
||
|
|
Geooff_
|
Thats fantastic to hear!
Any thoughts to this idea? |
|||||
|
|
Forculus
Developer Joined: Mar 30, 2011 Posts: 397 Status: Offline |
This is an idea that's come up before in the Game Design forum, you can see the discussion in this thread. The relevant part of my comment at that time:
Note that Dark Seas is a big part of fulfilling this request. You'll notice that many of the changes we've listed in the Obsidian release change log are things that have been brought up by the community in this forum and thoroughly discussed. |
|||||||
|
|
Geooff_
|
Thank you for your feedback on this matter. What do you think of using the subreddit as a more open means for communicating with players? On another thread I wrote.
|
|||||
|
|
GreatBob
Joined: Sep 3, 2005 Posts: 1465 Status: Offline |
The new player experience needs just as much attention as anything else, and hitting EA seems like the perfect time to do it. It's been posted (and reposted) before, but I wouldn't want to miss a chance to throw my list out there again:
The greenie/greeter chat might work better than having an automatic crew for greenies, especially in terms of coding it. Getting new players mixing with knowledgeable players is going to be the key to success here. Also, please examine the pillaging payouts. One loss is leading to a downward ramp in many occasions, despite very low turnover and winning against oranges. I don't know if there is some kind of double-punishment going on here, but it definitely isn't working as (what popular belief holds) intended. ---------------------------------------- Penguinpaste, SO of Polaris, Obsidian. Dark side. Avatar by Phaerie. |
|||||
|
|
EmpressTamar
Joined: May 7, 2012 Posts: 830 Status: Offline |
Fantastic to hear! Any chance we could be given an estimate of a window of time to expect this? ---------------------------------------- Empresstamar of Emerald. Yppedia page Gorgeous avatar by by Cattrin <3 |
|||
|
|
Onelegstan
|
I'm sorry but what is the point of 'listening' to new players when you don't ever act on the suggestions of all of us who post hundreds of suggestions on the forums? There has been no update to the ocean for weeks/months!! ---------------------------------------- Martyhur on Emerald Marty on Obsidian |
|||
|
|
doesntsave
Joined: Jun 29, 2017 Posts: 42 Status: Offline |
This. ---------------------------------------- --- Complain on Obsidian Supporter of Team Evil "Yarr, purple aint nothin' but a color!" |
|||||
|
|
[Show Printable Version of Thread] [Post new Thread] |
Powered by mvnForum
mvnForum copyright © 2002-2006 by MyVietnam.net