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wippit

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SMH and Doubloon Delivery Fees all-inclusive Overhaul Reply to this Post
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There's been lots of threads about what to do about doubloon delivery prices. There have been additional threads about booty in SMHs. I want to wrap them both up into one neat package to try to fix everything at once. Even though I own no shoppes, I am a bit tired of a single SMH badge outfitting a pirate for all of eternity just from SMH booty.

- replace all old booty (clothes, furniture, weapons) with trinkets
- replace all theme-color clothes with the appropriate chroma
- replace all unique furniture / clothes with a "locked chest"

Locked chests can contain designs for the furniture / clothes that are unique to the SMH. I'd also like to see them potentially contain trinkets not associated with the SMH (such as Curse Island trinkets in Atlantis). This would represent stuff the SMH has looted off of other victims.

All unique furniture / cloth designs, as well as chromas, can be purchased with trinkets, you just expand the list of available items to everything the SMH can produce. People trade in for whatever items they want, or trade designs. Each SMH also needs its own unique, but balanced, sword/bludgeon/goblet (I know cursed islands has the goblet already).

Remove doubloon delivery costs for basic materials (paint, cloth), furniture, clothing, and weapons. Keep it for ships.

Add a doubloon delivery for all Design purchases, and for chromas. This is your doubloon sink for the game, and it removes how doubloon costs impact the player-driven economy. Chromas can just be 1 doubloon, the rest would be based on what the item is. You're paying doubloons for the uncommon/rare items.
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by wippit at Jan 2, 2017 7:49:26 AM]
[Jan 2, 2017 7:48:09 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
xelto

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Re: SMH and Doubloon Delivery Fees all-inclusive Overhaul Reply to this Post
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You've got some interesting ideas, but also some stuff that I don't see working the way you want it to.

 
Remove doubloon delivery costs for basic materials (paint, cloth), furniture, clothing, and weapons. Keep it for ships.

You didn't mention anything about badges. Do you intend to keep dub fees for those, as well?

 
- replace all unique furniture / clothes with a "locked chest"
...
Locked chests can contain designs for the furniture / clothes that are unique to the SMH.
...
Add a doubloon delivery for all Design purchases, and for chromas. This is your doubloon sink for the game

What will end up happening, if you take this approach, is that players will, by and large, stop trying for any booty from sea monster lairs other than PoE, pets, and familiars. After all, the reason you see so many people decked out in indigo, with a smattering of inky and atlantean, is because those are all free. If you change it so that you have to pay dubs for delivery of sea monster stuff, it won't get delivered... but the now-cheap clothing at a tailor will be purchased a lot more.

Theoretically, this does mean some extra dubs sunk in labor badges. But at the cost of fewer sunk on bravery badges, and far more importantly, people complaining about pillaging being the only thing worth doing.

Personally, I think they got the balance just about right with the greedy brigands. Fewer chests overall, compared to all the sea monster lairs. Most of those being trinkets, but the occasional piece of furniture and the rare pet or familiar. There are a few issues with the setup (greedy purses pay out way too much), but overall, it works.
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Gurndigarn on Emerald Ocean
"Oh, come on. You jobbed onto a ship called the Cursed Isle Raider and you expected *refined*?"
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by xelto at Jan 2, 2017 10:34:37 AM]
[Jan 2, 2017 10:33:13 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
wippit

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Re: SMH and Doubloon Delivery Fees all-inclusive Overhaul Reply to this Post
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You didn't mention anything about badges. Do you intend to keep dub fees for those, as well?


Yes. Dubs for badges are kind-of a requirement on a dub ocean.

 
After all, the reason you see so many people decked out in indigo, with a smattering of inky and atlantean, is because those are all free. If you change it so that you have to pay dubs for delivery of sea monster stuff, it won't get delivered... but the now-cheap clothing at a tailor will be purchased a lot more.


And that's the point.

Getting all this free stuff in sea-monster hunts contributes nothing to the economy. I spend 5 dubs, and I have unlimited clothes, swords, bludgeons, goblets, quite a bit of furniture, decorations... and I never buy anything from a shoppe.

Putting dubs on the SMH stuff, and removing it from stores (or at least reducing it significantly) boosts the player economy. You buy and sell from other players, instead of just getting free stuff. And with a dub price on the SMH stuff, it becomes a little more rare. Hell, I've seen shops with 10 rows of Atlantean helms just sitting there doing nothing.

 
Personally, I think they got the balance just about right with the greedy brigands. Fewer chests overall, compared to all the sea monster lairs. Most of those being trinkets, but the occasional piece of furniture and the rare pet or familiar. There are a few issues with the setup (greedy purses pay out way too much), but overall, it works.


Well, we can also reduce the overall chests in all three SMHs, or just increase the amount of PoE and reduce items. The way it is now, it's just a huge glut of poe and free items. We need to stimulate the economy, and encourage buying dubs. So put the dubs on the exotic stuff and leave the common stuff dub-free.
[Jan 2, 2017 11:44:28 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Jcmorgan6

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Re: SMH and Doubloon Delivery Fees all-inclusive Overhaul Reply to this Post
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I am a bit tired of a single SMH badge outfitting a pirate for all of eternity just from SMH booty.

- replace all old booty (clothes, furniture, weapons) with trinkets

Agreed

 
- replace all theme-color clothes with the appropriate chroma

Chromas need to be rarer than this in my opinion, all the buildings are going to painted indigo up to a metre high from the latest chroma flood (any CI porting)

 
- replace all unique furniture / clothes with a "locked chest"

Locked chests can contain designs for the furniture / clothes that are unique to the SMH.

Fair enough this could work.

 
I'd also like to see them potentially contain trinkets not associated with the SMH (such as Curse Island trinkets in Atlantis). This would represent stuff the SMH has looted off of other victims.

I'd be strongly against this, if you want a rare trinket drop, dropping the rarer colours of the same SMH type to which they were won in, could work, but even then I don't really think this is a good idea.

 
All unique furniture / cloth designs, as well as chromas, can be purchased with trinkets, you just expand the list of available items to everything the SMH can produce. People trade in for whatever items they want, or trade designs.

How about instead of being able to use trinkets to buy a design, you have to use the trinkets to 'fill' up a design, they are won 'empty', and require an amount of trinkets to become usable in the furnisher/tailor shoppes. This would potentially help with the bazillions of useless trinkets people have too. If this was done, I'd also move the ship/cannon designs to being won in the SMHs too.

 
Each SMH also needs its own unique, but balanced, sword/bludgeon/goblet (I know cursed islands has the goblet already).

If it's doable, it would be pretty nice yes.

 

Remove doubloon delivery costs for basic materials (paint, cloth), furniture, clothing, and weapons. Keep it for ships.

Add a doubloon delivery for all Design purchases, and for chromas. This is your doubloon sink for the game, and it removes how doubloon costs impact the player-driven economy. Chromas can just be 1 doubloon, the rest would be based on what the item is. You're paying doubloons for the uncommon/rare items.


I think your ideas up to this point were alright, that said I think you vastly overestimate how many people will actually buy these designs if they cost a ton of dubs - a lot of people avoid designs already. I'd propose the opposite, having a zero doubloon delivery fee on items purchased through designs. This compromises between giving the shoppes extra orders, and players not being too peeved off, that what they've won in the SMH is just a piece of paper. Otherwise Gurndigarn is right, people are just not going to care about the stuff they win, these designs will be worth very little if no-one is buying them due to the expense of dub delivery. Just look at the rogue and cursed class vessel designs, they're already next to worthless, even without a doubloon cost for the design.
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Jjc & Jice on Emerald
CI booty division stats
[Jan 2, 2017 2:45:42 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
xelto

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Re: SMH and Doubloon Delivery Fees all-inclusive Overhaul Reply to this Post
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After all, the reason you see so many people decked out in indigo, with a smattering of inky and atlantean, is because those are all free. If you change it so that you have to pay dubs for delivery of sea monster stuff, it won't get delivered... but the now-cheap clothing at a tailor will be purchased a lot more.


And that's the point.

Getting all this free stuff in sea-monster hunts contributes nothing to the economy. I spend 5 dubs, and I have unlimited clothes, swords, bludgeons, goblets, quite a bit of furniture, decorations... and I never buy anything from a shoppe.

This doesn't change my point that you will remove most of the incentive to do anything other than pillaging. Which, in turn, will turn off a lot of the players (all the ones who got bored of pillaging a long time ago) from the game. While I think there are things that would greatly help the player economy that should be done, I don't think that effectively killing off part of the actual game play is the way to do it.
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Gurndigarn on Emerald Ocean
"Oh, come on. You jobbed onto a ship called the Cursed Isle Raider and you expected *refined*?"
[Jan 2, 2017 4:27:38 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Seamusmclir

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Re: SMH and Doubloon Delivery Fees all-inclusive Overhaul Reply to this Post
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Frankly, I'd like to see dub costs removed for anything that isn't "unlocking new parts of the game."

No delivery dubs for ships, for clothes, whisking potions... Nothing produced by a shop.

Dubs should be to unlock portions of the game only.

Labor Badge? Grand. Bump the price to 6
Bravery Badge? Why not! Bump price to 6
Parlor Badges? You betcha! Raise the price to 10
Rank Badges? Of Course! Keep Pirate Where it is, make Officer 10, SO 15, and Captain 20!

They could (and should) even add a few badges:

Shopkeeper's Badge: Paid by the Shopkeep to stay in business. -16
Flag Badge: -> Paid by the King/Queen of the Flag. - 16
Blockade Badge: -> Required to initiate a blockade (not participate). - 16

And all of this could be yours for the low-low price of $20 a month.

This keeps the entirety of the game accessible, stops the ridiculous nickle-and-diming, and helps the economy flourish.

Then split regular Chromas into Paint, Cloth, and Enamel Chromas (awarded separately) and watch the land-side economy flourish! Yes, this means removing all the clothing drops from the SMH's. (With perhaps the rare exception item that can ONLY be won there)

Yes, the owners wouldn't receive nearly the income they do now, at least not from every player. But rest assured the doubloon economy would still flourish from the $$ impoverished.

Addendum:
Also completely down with housing and crew/flag halls costing doubloons. That counts as a 'new part of the game' in my book. Much as I <3 them.
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Obsidian Calls Us Home.
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by Seamusmclir at Jan 15, 2017 3:30:41 PM]
[Jan 15, 2017 3:27:59 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.maghtuireadh.org/forum/    seamusmclir [Link]  Go to top 
Shinito

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Re: SMH and Doubloon Delivery Fees all-inclusive Overhaul Reply to this Post
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The whole point of SMH is to make people buy dubs(for badges and ships) and that is the main reason why they out-compete pillaging. Without the cost SMH would take over everything.

Also on the same topic I think that PP should mainly do dubs for cosmetics and leave the gameplay alone like a lot of modern F2P games.
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Thorkill on Malachite 2.0 Obsidian
[Jan 15, 2017 5:46:02 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Seamusmclir

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Re: SMH and Doubloon Delivery Fees all-inclusive Overhaul Reply to this Post
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The whole point of SMH is to make people buy dubs(for badges and ships) and that is the main reason why they out-compete pillaging. Without the cost SMH would take over everything.

Also on the same topic I think that PP should mainly do dubs for cosmetics and leave the gameplay alone like a lot of modern F2P games.


I'd also be solid with this, except that so much of the 'cosmetic' affects solid core gameplay. Like owning shops/stalls and the operations therein. The player-based economy has always been a huge component of YPP, and the Dub system essentially hamstrings it at the gate.

Seriously, prices should *not* range in the thousands of PoE (if you include $$ costs) for basic clothing. It's just ridiculous.

Then again, some of us don't like to play parlor games, or aren't hot on SMH, etc. By keeping it to unlocking game components, you let people choose their experience.

I frankly feel in the world of YPP Piracy, that making it purely for 'cosmetic things' actually is the bad way to go. Just so long as it doesn't provide 'success' if you pay.

"Play what parts of our game you want to play, don't pay for the others" is how it should be structured.
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http://yppedia.puzzlepirates.com/Manannan%27s_Seawolves

Obsidian Calls Us Home.
--------------------------------------------
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[Jan 15, 2017 6:20:01 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.maghtuireadh.org/forum/    seamusmclir [Link]  Go to top 
Shinito

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Re: SMH and Doubloon Delivery Fees all-inclusive Overhaul Reply to this Post
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The point of cosmetics only is to leave the gameplay alone to better engage the audience therefore leading to a higher conversion rate. Especially when it comes to pretty big parts of the game like SMH and parlor games.

fake edit: the economy was never designed for dubs
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Thorkill on Malachite 2.0 Obsidian
[Jan 15, 2017 7:03:14 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Seamusmclir

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Re: SMH and Doubloon Delivery Fees all-inclusive Overhaul Reply to this Post
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The point of cosmetics only is to leave the gameplay alone to better engage the audience therefore leading to a higher conversion rate. Especially when it comes to pretty big parts of the game like SMH and parlor games.

fake edit: the economy was never designed for dubs


While neither of us are decision makers, the idea of paying for cosmetics in *this* particular game offends me.

But I suppose we can both agree that ships are decidedly not cosmetic, and shouldn't be charged for in either capacity.
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http://www.maghtuireadh.org/
http://yppedia.puzzlepirates.com/Manannan%27s_Seawolves

Obsidian Calls Us Home.
--------------------------------------------
"It's the damn of a new era!" - Pyn
[Jan 15, 2017 7:35:50 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.maghtuireadh.org/forum/    seamusmclir [Link]  Go to top 
Shinito

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Re: SMH and Doubloon Delivery Fees all-inclusive Overhaul Reply to this Post
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"im offended"

nice discussion we have going here
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Thorkill on Malachite 2.0 Obsidian
[Jan 16, 2017 3:12:06 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Seamusmclir

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Re: SMH and Doubloon Delivery Fees all-inclusive Overhaul Reply to this Post
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"im offended"

nice discussion we have going here


*laughs* Didn't quite mean it like that. But aye, I used the words and deserved the snipe.

I merely meant it somehow seems unfitting for the environment, though I can see the counterargument.
----------------------------------------
http://www.maghtuireadh.org/
http://yppedia.puzzlepirates.com/Manannan%27s_Seawolves

Obsidian Calls Us Home.
--------------------------------------------
"It's the damn of a new era!" - Pyn
[Jan 16, 2017 6:13:07 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.maghtuireadh.org/forum/    seamusmclir [Link]  Go to top 
Seamusmclir

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Re: SMH and Doubloon Delivery Fees all-inclusive Overhaul Reply to this Post
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This doesn't change my point that you will remove most of the incentive to do anything other than pillaging. Which, in turn, will turn off a lot of the players (all the ones who got bored of pillaging a long time ago) from the game. While I think there are things that would greatly help the player economy that should be done, I don't think that effectively killing off part of the actual gameplay is the way to do it.


I got sick of SMH's a long time ago, I occasionally go on one for kicks, but otherwise I find them one of the most boring and pointless activities in the game. Sure, you get neat rewards, but overall I'd rather be out pillaging.

And I think you're being a bit melodramatic. Nothing so simple is going to destroy pillaging or SMH except Poker. ;)
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http://yppedia.puzzlepirates.com/Manannan%27s_Seawolves

Obsidian Calls Us Home.
--------------------------------------------
"It's the damn of a new era!" - Pyn
[Jan 16, 2017 2:17:00 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.maghtuireadh.org/forum/    seamusmclir [Link]  Go to top 
herieman

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Re: SMH and Doubloon Delivery Fees all-inclusive Overhaul Reply to this Post
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I think i could get behind this idea of just paying IRL money for the cosmetics.

For example clothes add nothing to the game but looking good, cheap clothes could be seen as just a pirate having something to wear and then the more expencive clothes like the hats with feathers, captain hats, crowns, things like that would be considdered cosmetics and would come with an extra price.

Ships ofcourse are a core feature of the game, but talking about cosmetics i would say LE ships are for sure cosmetic items.

Furniture should be with no Fee for the basic items, broken items, things that are cheap to make, but should have a fee for more expencive items like large chests, chests with gold flowing out of them, sword, bludgeon, mug and trinket storages, armors, things like that, the more fancy expencive stuff that you do not NEED, but could use possibly or could add to your house to make it more fancy looking.

Then there is the general goods for shops, some of those already do not have an extra fee to deliver them, but i would say none of those besides gold and black cloth and paint should have those extra fees.

Now i did not touch anything about designs yet, because i feel like those should be treated differently.
I agree with this idea that i read here about making them empty when gaining them and having to fill them up with trinkets to make them useable, that would just be nice though.
In this topic of Cosmetics i would say the design items should not get an extra fee, dispite them clearly being the more fancy types of clothes, furniture and ships, they already come with an extra fee (the value of the design and possibly the trinkets if the other idea is added).

Also as a last thing, badges should stay as they are, or maybe become slightly more expencive as was stated before, badges unlock new areas of the game and for that reason they should be costing dubs instead of PoE.
One can still get there using PoE as we have the PoE for dub trading system ofcourse, but it would take longer for a regular player to unlock. (This is already the case right now, just stating it)
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