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Forums » List all forums » Forum: Game Design » Thread: On the Horizon: New Ocean, Big Changes! |
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Thread Status: Normal Total posts in this thread: 612
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Jcmorgan6
 Joined: Feb 5, 2015 Posts: 413 Status: Offline |
Pay to win: 'In some multiplayer free-to-play games, players who are willing to pay for special items or downloadable content may be able to gain a significant advantage over those playing for free.' It's hardly pay to win, having about 500k unlocks pretty much all the content (biggest use-able ships, all your badges, kits, swords, bludgeons).This takes a dedicated player less than a week to earn. After that money is really only used for cosmetics purposes. Governing islands is really only a cosmetic too, it's not worth it from a economic perspective. The only thing above that range would be shoppes, which can even be bought for as cheap as 400k on a terrible island. If the game was pay to win, you'd have things like, badges bought for real money that boost the number of moves generated by your puzzling when sailing. Or the highest tier swords would only be able to be bought via real money, and would be untradeable. But you don't see this, because Puzzle Pirates is not pay to win, the advantage gained by paying is relatively small, and becomes even smaller if you don't play every day (paying for days you don't play on cerulean, not the case on doubloon oceans). ---------------------------------------- Jjc & Jice on Emerald CI booty division stats |
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Seamusmclir
Joined: Sep 7, 2004 Posts: 1200 Status: Offline |
Alright, let me rephrase, the sheer expense of playing on a Doubloon Ocean is insane compared to what it cost to play with a simple subscription. While I understand making the game F2P and accessible to those without much funding, the fact that every little thing (including clothes? seriously?) comes with an associated doubloon cost is frankly obscene. But I love this game, and I'll be coming back. I just wish I didn't feel like I was getting gouged at every turn to play what I could play for $10 on a subscription ocean. (Only without the population) ---------------------------------------- http://www.maghtuireadh.org/ http://yppedia.puzzlepirates.com/Manannan%27s_Seawolves Obsidian Calls Us Home. -------------------------------------------- "It's the damn of a new era!" - Pyn |
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majestrate
Joined: Feb 18, 2005 Posts: 3958 Status: Offline |
What would it take to make it worth it, from an economic perspective? If a properly run island can make 250,000 eights per week? 500,000 eights per week? 1,000,000 eights per week? I think islands can be much more profitable than what they currently are. But people need to change their view of what governor means. Just like each SMH is a specialty, as is attacking a flotilla, the various aspects of blockading, being a merchant/trader, and leading pillages, being a governor that can make the owning flag some profit from their conquest is a skill that has to be honed. tl;dr: Islands are not "set it and forget it", time and effort have to be invested in order to make them profitable ---------------------------------------- #TeamEvil
Avatar by the gracious and wonderful Phaerie <3 |
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Tejb5
Joined: Mar 27, 2010 Posts: 69 Status: Offline |
+1 We had some banter in my flag that my outpost made more money in one week than the 4 other larges we owned except Admiral just because of a couple well placed spawns. There isn't really any excuse to not be making money on any island if there is a spawn nearby. ---------------------------------------- -Shigby |
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wippit
Joined: Jan 30, 2006 Posts: 695 Status: Offline |
I don't think I've paid for a doubloon in 5 years. And I do everything I want to do on the ocean. Hell, I complain that a simply 5 doubloon SMH badge gets you every single thing you could ever want - furniture, clothes, weapons.... |
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Aristobulus
Joined: Aug 3, 2003 Posts: 31 Status: Offline |
As someone who has not played this game in many, many years, I have to say Dark Seas sounds awesome and I will definitely return to try the game again for that, and I've got a few friends that are interested in returning for it, too. The things that sound really cool to me - the whole light vs. dark is really cool. Though I'm curious what is going to be done about balance if one side vastly outnumbers the other? Reducing the impact of poker is a really good thing. And an increased focus on pvp also sounds really fresh, since voyages where you just fought bots could get old and repetitive. Shop destruction also sounds really fresh - one of the things that drove me away from classic oceans was that things felt pretty...set, it felt really difficult for an average player to get to do many things because someone else already owned all the islands and shops, and it was hard to compete. This sounds like it will have more things trading hands so average players get to do more. ---------------------------------------- Old pirates, yes, they rob I; Sold I to the merchant ships |
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marundel
Joined: Jan 7, 2007 Posts: 2955 Status: Offline |
Well, from my foxhole..... Pros: - it's new and clean without dusting everything. That's good for getting those charter players off to an equal start. - it appears as though some of the issues with the current version will be corrected before release of the new version. Cons: - it's new and clean without dusting everything, which is really only good for the folks that join in the first few weeks. - It minimizes game play for shopkeepers by putting 100% of their in-game investment at risk outside their ability to mitigate that risk (FTR, I agree with Algol's appraisal of the situation.) - It makes PvP automatic which puts players who don't like PvP at 100% risk without giving them an opportunity based on their own skill / understanding of the game to mitigate that risk. - It's only available through Steam - which many people will not use (myself included.) This really isn't an issue if the only reason to use Steam is initial access... like Miniclip in the old days... but if Steam becomes the platform for daily login, payment, etc., that's a huge negative for those of us who have had negative Steam experiences. - It's a doubloon ocean with no subscription option. For those of us who prefer the "one charge for all game play" option along with the long-time customer discount for being a loyal customer, this is a negative. Yes - it is possible to get doubs for PoE on the exchange... that implies grinding for PoE to play cheaper or free. It requires me to check my balances with every login rather than only worrying about my once-a-year renewal on my credit card. As an example, roughly five years ago, I purchased 1000 doubs on the green oceans, because I thought I would give the doub model a try. I spent doubs for a carousing badge, officer badge, and labor badge. I was so un-enamored of my first purchasing experience that I still have nearly 1000 doubs. Aside from blockades when requested to participate by a hearty, I haven't been back. In short, I appreciate the owners making the effort. It sounds like it might be much more of a "war game" than the current version, and it sounds like they are serious about fixing some of the issues that have plagued the older version. I just think that they are not taking their entire player base into account. ---------------------------------------- Pizzahutpete on the Cerulean Ocean Prince, Super Awesomeness SO, Boochin' Drunks Pizzahutpete everywhere, thanks to the merge ---------------------------------------- [Edit 1 times, last edit by marundel at Jan 14, 2017 1:43:02 PM] |
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Vepar7
 Joined: Oct 24, 2016 Posts: 63 Status: Offline |
Will this also include some balance changes, most notably changing the current swords? Also will we be able to make payments through steam? Will there be special cades between alliances ( Light vs Dark)? If so, what could the prize be? Will there be neutral populated islands (maybe the biggets one) that both parties are able to live on (e.g using the Inn)? ---------------------------------------- Got customer supported on Emerald ------ Me: <counter buzz sound> Just kidding, they are the Desperate Housewives. majestrate : Hera is a guy though, so....maybe not Housewives |
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Seamusmclir
Joined: Sep 7, 2004 Posts: 1200 Status: Offline |
This... So much this. I can deal with it being a doubloon ocean if I can still choose to sub the five crew members that live in my house. As for not 'paying for a doubloon' those people are missing the point. SOMEONE is paying for those doubloons, and the overall cost to the game as a whole is ridiculous. ---------------------------------------- http://www.maghtuireadh.org/ http://yppedia.puzzlepirates.com/Manannan%27s_Seawolves Obsidian Calls Us Home. -------------------------------------------- "It's the damn of a new era!" - Pyn ---------------------------------------- [Edit 1 times, last edit by Seamusmclir at Jan 14, 2017 9:20:12 PM] |
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Scarpath
Joined: Sep 7, 2014 Posts: 246 Status: Offline |
It would be nice to have some sort of mix between sub and dub. Just like in the American anime community, some of us prefer one over the other, and asking us to pick one can mean asking us not to play at all. But perhaps a compromise? A $5-$10 subscription to unlock some features monthly, but not all. So, say it could unlock all the badges and some-such, but you still have to pay the delivery fee. Thus, we get the subscription to unlock, yet people can still buy dubs to get a badge and play. The downside to this would be an inflated price in the exchange, however, so I'm not sure if it would be the best idea. ---------------------------------------- Scarpath on Emerald, Cerulean, and Meridian! Also Scarpath on Obsidian, Defiant to the core. Your grammar should at least be as good as mine, take the time to make it decent! |
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Shinito
Joined: Jan 3, 2006 Posts: 588 Status: Offline |
when will subs realise that nobody cares about them. youre just legacy code that at this point cant be removed edit: people who prefer dubbed anime should be shunned from society ---------------------------------------- Thorkill on ---------------------------------------- [Edit 1 times, last edit by Shinito at Jan 15, 2017 6:11:16 PM] |
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Scarpath
Joined: Sep 7, 2014 Posts: 246 Status: Offline |
Ahhh, but you assume. I never played on a sub ocean, but if there were a more popular sub ocean, I would definitely join. However, I do believe that the dubs are possibly one of the things that allowed YPP to persist so long. After all, it is one of the longer standing MMO's of it's time, even if the player base isn't too large anymore. We love the game, but maybe not enough to dedicate $10 every month for so long. However, when you don't have to worry about spending money, it is a lot easier to stay/come back. Over all, I do prefer to have a dub ocean. But as for your edit: Yup. Just yeah. Mmmhm. ---------------------------------------- Scarpath on Emerald, Cerulean, and Meridian! Also Scarpath on Obsidian, Defiant to the core. Your grammar should at least be as good as mine, take the time to make it decent! |
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Seamusmclir
Joined: Sep 7, 2004 Posts: 1200 Status: Offline |
I have no issue with a dub ocean, I just want the pricing to enjoy the whole game to be more in line with what a sub ocean costs. I had no issue paying $10 a month to enjoy the whole game, but the costs involved in playing it the same way I played on the dub ocean is prohibitive. ---------------------------------------- http://www.maghtuireadh.org/ http://yppedia.puzzlepirates.com/Manannan%27s_Seawolves Obsidian Calls Us Home. -------------------------------------------- "It's the damn of a new era!" - Pyn |
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majestrate
Joined: Feb 18, 2005 Posts: 3958 Status: Offline |
This thread has devolved into sub vs doub, which is a pointless thing to even argue about. Can we get back to discussing the new game world? ---------------------------------------- #TeamEvil
Avatar by the gracious and wonderful Phaerie <3 |
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Shinito
Joined: Jan 3, 2006 Posts: 588 Status: Offline |
The trick is to spend a few hundred hours playing poker until you have enough money to no longer care about anything (I wonder what's going to be the meme activity in the new ocean). ---------------------------------------- Thorkill on |
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Seamusmclir
Joined: Sep 7, 2004 Posts: 1200 Status: Offline |
This is, I feel, part of the problem. This is not a solution, but a symptom of the disease. On the other hand, your tone seems mostly tongue in cheek. ;) ---------------------------------------- http://www.maghtuireadh.org/ http://yppedia.puzzlepirates.com/Manannan%27s_Seawolves Obsidian Calls Us Home. -------------------------------------------- "It's the damn of a new era!" - Pyn |
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Gorillabuddy
Joined: Mar 20, 2011 Posts: 321 Status: Offline |
Dubs vs subs is a pretty pointless discussion, since we know for a fact it will be dub. However I think it's worth talking about the finer details of how dubs work, and possibly altering them a bit in the new ocean. They're far from a perfect system and could use some tweaking. That being said, I don't play doub oceans and only know a bit about economics, so I can't contribute all that much to the discussion. ---------------------------------------- Pliskin of Cerulean Avatar by Cattrin |
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deltaruler
Joined: Dec 31, 2006 Posts: 236 Status: Offline |
100% agree! Nicely done! ---------------------------------------- GULFipedia: "Real life made me to respect people in games faster. Games made me to mute people in real life easier." |
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Florianlp
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And WHEN will the new ocean come?... |
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ak62
Joined: Jul 22, 2012 Posts: 116 Status: Offline |
In the very first sentence of this thread it says Later 2017.... At least try to put in some effort next time please ---------------------------------------- Camouflages - Meridian/Emerald Avatar by Doulber |
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Seamusmclir
Joined: Sep 7, 2004 Posts: 1200 Status: Offline |
Every last scuppering one of these, every one. Re: The Opening of New Archipelago's: If the size calls for it, don't just 'Oh Hey New Patch New Archipelago'. Instead give us, as a community, something to work for, something we can all do together to find new lands in uncharted waters. The possibilities with a large player base are endless. The pillaging changes +1 to all of this. On Sinking PvP's Two things here. 1 - Dub costs need to be removed from buying a ship. It prohibits PvP by putting a real money cost on an in-game activity, and that's going to make anyone without a deep pocketbook flinch. Otherwise, I'm all down for this. ---------------------------------------- http://www.maghtuireadh.org/ http://yppedia.puzzlepirates.com/Manannan%27s_Seawolves Obsidian Calls Us Home. -------------------------------------------- "It's the damn of a new era!" - Pyn |
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Vepar7
Joined: Oct 24, 2016 Posts: 63 Status: Offline |
Will players be able to run puzzle competitions instead of tournaments only (it could even cost dubloons as a fee)? ---------------------------------------- Got customer supported on Emerald ------ Me: <counter buzz sound> Just kidding, they are the Desperate Housewives. majestrate : Hera is a guy though, so....maybe not Housewives |
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Scarpath
Joined: Sep 7, 2014 Posts: 246 Status: Offline |
My biggest issue is how much some things cost. Want a ship larger than a war brig? Well, you had better either play poker, or mana.. manage a shoppe... Whelp. So no way for the average player to run a large pilly anymore, you've gotta be a die hard. Fun. Imagine the hours it will take to either protect your shop or grind out that money one week outta the month when the SMH you actually like is up. ---------------------------------------- Scarpath on Emerald, Cerulean, and Meridian! Also Scarpath on Obsidian, Defiant to the core. Your grammar should at least be as good as mine, take the time to make it decent! |
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Salttree
Joined: Jul 14, 2007 Posts: 71 Status: Offline |
get rid of routes that you have to memm , or wait and pray to get a chart for,, , open the whole ocean up to buy-able charts .. PLEASE ! ! and shoppies destroyed ?? I edddddd don't think so ,, why should I open a shoppie, spent hours of game time, filling it with inventory, on comm runs,, to have it destroyed, in an instant... I would lose hours of work ,,, .. I think you will find this wont work ,,, signed Salttree maybe just have the shoppies, shut down , frozen , for a short period of time, after an island changing hands ...... ....... and you need to ,,, set up a buy a bott system,, so like if I want extra botts on my ship ,, for a poe fee, I can buy a full ship of botts to man all stations ,,,, .. I know this will sound, like a bad idea ,,, to lot of people,, but, its not ,,, |
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seanhagg95
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Have they said anything about a release date for this ocean? |
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Gunnerfreak
 Joined: Jun 12, 2011 Posts: 436 Status: Offline |
Sometime in late 2017. Think it was Fall '17, or around then. ---------------------------------------- Gunnerfreak on Cerulean <- Home ocean. AKA Gunnerfreak on Obsidian (new ocean!), Ice, Emerald, Opal, and Jade, Gunnerfreak-East on Emerald, Gunnerfreak-West on Cerulean, and Gunnergunner on Meridian. Also a Respe-ranked YPPedia-wiki freak. |
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xelto
Joined: Mar 18, 2007 Posts: 5707 Status: Offline |
And they also said, quite distinctly, that that was an estimate, only, and that the actual time would depend on how much new coding/content they need to add in. Based on my experiences with programming, expect between July 2017 and late 2018, with late September 2017 being the most likely actual time. ---------------------------------------- Gurndigarn on Emerald Ocean "Oh, come on. You jobbed onto a ship called the Cursed Isle Raider and you expected *refined*?" |
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seanhagg95
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A lot of people complain about poker, I like it but i can agree it ruins certain aspects of the game. If you take away the highest stakes (20k-200k), theres no point in having it at all, because nobody takes any buy-in lower than that seriously. It would just be an AOF fiesta. For that reason, if the plan is to take away 20k-200k buy ins, I would suggest removing poker entirely and replace it with blackjack :) more risk, and players wouldnt be taking money from other players, instead the game would be taking the money which could keep the economy healthier. In this as well, the game would not be ruined like low buy-in poker is currently, with players who are reckless with their money. Also with that, there could still be a max bet limit in blackjack so that players cannot exploit blind luck. What do you guys think? ---------------------------------------- [Edit 1 times, last edit by seanhagg95 at Jan 21, 2017 11:46:08 AM] |
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Scarpath
Joined: Sep 7, 2014 Posts: 246 Status: Offline |
Yesssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss All the yesssssssssssssssss ---------------------------------------- Scarpath on Emerald, Cerulean, and Meridian! Also Scarpath on Obsidian, Defiant to the core. Your grammar should at least be as good as mine, take the time to make it decent! |
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Gorillabuddy
Joined: Mar 20, 2011 Posts: 321 Status: Offline |
Alternatively, there could be a poker/casino specific currency, like buying chips. And maybe you could use these chips to buy exclusive items. And maybe you could have a limit to the amount of chips you could buy. For example, you could buy up to 200 chips, but there might be things you could purchase at 400 chips or 1000 chips, and the only way to get that many chips is winning them at the table. That way there would still be stakes, but it wouldn't have a massive effect on the economy. ---------------------------------------- Pliskin of Cerulean Avatar by Cattrin |
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