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Forums » List all forums » Forum: Shore Leave » Thread: ROMS: (DC)XV -- GAME OVER - TOWN WINS |
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Thread Status: Normal Total posts in this thread: 2964
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NotJaret
Joined: Mar 9, 2012 Posts: 246 Status: Offline |
No I was just saying that this could have been an attempt to get the ball rolling, as MrB's one vote that early with little to none explanation won't sway many people if any. ---------------------------------------- Jaret of |
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riku743
Joined: Jan 19, 2009 Posts: 1812 Status: Offline |
I'm a bit confused by that the votes/suspicion on MrBriney seem to be largely because people don't like the way he's posted so far. I find this odd partly because.. that shouldn't happen, and partly because I'm not getting the irritating vibe that apparently multiple people are getting. Besides Kotetsu's, Taelac's response to it bothered me the most. This part stood out to me.
MrBriney says "I vote with gut". People ask, "Do you have any other justification?". MrBriney says "No, my justification is gut". And then Taelac comes in and says "Give me actual justification". The threatening tone combined with seeming to ignore what MrBriney already said is unsettling. Taelac already knows that MrBriney voted on gut, and he explained multiple times that gut is his justification. Why, then, question him and demand reasoning that you know he doesn't have? Medium FoS: Taelac -------- Master seems to have acknowledged that the main reason behind his vote doesn't make sense (the "I accidentally the whole thing" seems like admitting his mistake), but he has not removed his vote. -------- Randomact, in this post, feels oddly.. noncommital. There's a lot of "Well, this.. but then maybe not". Watchlist. ---------------------------------------- Nil used to play Mala. Lurking on the forums. |
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Lotsofgoats
Joined: Apr 4, 2005 Posts: 10163 Status: Offline |
So as I said over on the ROMS forums, I had a post cooked up that I tried to submit last night, but I got 503'd literally the moment I pressed "Reply to the post". In it, I thanked Bunny for the costume change, but she took away the animation from my avatar and that made me sad. riku had asked what to use instead of the medicine that people use to make meth, so I said, "Use meth." The comic timing has now been ruined. The only thing of substance was me musing that briney's vote wasn't a pressure vote, but rather one to garner reactions. I know that certain personalities will look for any chance to gain a townie as a sheep by defending them as a rogue. I should know, at least, since Prosperity did it to me in my first game. I also tend to set random weird traps like that, which is why I read it that way. Seems that I was wrong, and it really was just a quickdraw gut vote. I think that briney is reading "borderline insults" from taelac that aren't there, which he's addressed as frustrating more recently. I think frustrating is a better word, since I haven't really seen anything that made me gasp. We do have a pretty punchy crowd around here, though, so maybe I'm just conditioned. That's the only thing that raised an eyebrow in their exchange. It's reading as half frustrated and half over-defensive, at this point. On Dwizzles, I think the Argemone Booch (i.e. saying "ban" when you mean "lynch" indicating that you're a rogue) only applies to Argemone. Again, I should know, since somebody tried to bring the lynch on me for the same mistake. I actually tried to look through old games to see how many times it wound up being a good diagnostic, and the results were terrible. That was an oddly-spaced post, so I'm adding this down here for Feng shui. ---------------------------------------- I am Lotsofgoats and I approve this message. |
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marinated
Joined: Jan 24, 2007 Posts: 785 Status: Offline |
It was in the early sign-up thread in the DT.
Where was this implied? The win conditions in the OP don't give that impression and I don't recall any mention of it elsewhere either. Are you suggesting here that JMR may be referring to a third party?
And lose any advantage that might come from waiting? Also, we've been told that the items can be single or multiple use and can be transfered.
Wouldn't that also apply to Firebolt? ---------------------------------------- Sleepyjo - on all oceans |
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Lotsofgoats
Joined: Apr 4, 2005 Posts: 10163 Status: Offline |
To be fair, though, Prosperity didn't necessarily defend me after being voted. He was just doing lots of, "He reads very innocent to me..." reassurance if people looked my way. Full disclosure is good disclosure. The other possibility for getting a reaction is having fellow rogues come defend the rogue that you've put under the gun. That's much less likely statistically (i.e. way more townies than rogues to start) and strategically (i.e. a rogue would be giving the town places to look if he pointed at one of his buddies early in the game), in my mind. That and it makes it irrelevant as a reaction-getter, since you may as well be voting for the rogue that you're already voting for. Goodness that all sounds so ugly. Something that came to mind while reading through all of the abstain v. no-vote business... Do we have a way to retract votes? I don't see anything in the rules about unvotes, and that's an important distinction if abstain votes are going to count towards the total. o hi a post between my last one and this one, now Imma look all disjointed >:[ ---------------------------------------- I am Lotsofgoats and I approve this message. |
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Bunnylaroo
Joined: Jan 4, 2008 Posts: 898 Status: Offline |
I didn't notice that there was animation until I had already uploaded the avatar, and that made me sad. Then I decided that your super power is to freeze time, so, still fixed. ---------------------------------------- Bunnylaroo of Avatar by Pennywhistle |
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randomact
Joined: Jan 18, 2009 Posts: 2163 Status: Offline |
On my phone so I'm not linking and quoting. Riku, why is my post so non committal? I've watchlisted and given a provisional watchlist in there. At this point I think it's too early for me to be FoSing, perhaps because I'd rather FoS for more than one thing that a person has said. If you mean where I'm acknowledging things that have happened and waiting to see how people react (like with Kotetsu and your vote on him), is it better that I just don't post anything about it? Am I not meant to consider that there is different reasons people may act a certain way instead of just concluding that they're a rogue? ---------------------------------------- Loathe/Forever. Cremate tells ye, "i think i just broke my hymen" |
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riku743
Joined: Jan 19, 2009 Posts: 1812 Status: Offline |
For example, it seemed a little soft on Smileo. If someone comes in, posts once to say they want to abstain and first Day lynches are silly, and says nothing the rest of the Day, I'd think that would deserve more than considering him on watchlist. It seemed noncommital to me. It could just be that this game is starting off faster than usual and I'm expecting people to be more opinionated than they usually are at this time, but you seemed to not have much of any in either direction. ---------------------------------------- Nil used to play Mala. Lurking on the forums. |
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randomact
Joined: Jan 18, 2009 Posts: 2163 Status: Offline |
Oh I see. I meant he would definitely be on my watchlist. As in "consider yourself on my watchlist". I guess I could have said FoS instead, but I wouldn't mind at least another post from him before I think about doing that. To me FoS is more of a 'willing to vote here', and right now I'm not willing to do that with anyone. ---------------------------------------- Loathe/Forever. Cremate tells ye, "i think i just broke my hymen" |
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smileo
Joined: Aug 28, 2006 Posts: 1635 Status: Offline |
An interesting read 
At no point have I suggested that 1.I am done for the day 2. I wont vote. 3. Im not interested in hunting rogues. all 3 statements misinterpreted or assumed. Let me make my metastance very clear so we can get it out of the way. I am pro abstain for very good reasons. But I am not above voting if I see something that speaks to me. If you do not realise how petty most Day one arguements for lynch are, take a look at the history books and the towns success rate, it is worse than the average town to rogue ratio, suggesting it is worse than a crapshoot. The town as a conglomerate make bad decisions day 1 that always end with innocents lynched, then bandwagon analysis that ends in Day 2 innocents lynched. its a destructive cycle that we need to get out of so that we can be more fruitful with our lynches When someone does something that makes you go hmmm, by all means note them down but when building a wall of evidence you need more than just a brick to be convinced. Its akin saying "the killer was wearing sneakers, and you wear sneakers, so you must be the killer." you dont ignore it but you should be more sure than you were last game before you convict. Nalanthi also made a great point about roleholders, with so many assumed in this game, lynching the wrong person is more likely to send a role down the bin than a rogue. A third and final point. For every 2 days we abstain or miss a lynch, we gain a day at the end. Information is historically unreliable day 1. If we are all hunting then you will gain more information from that than you will from a crapshoot bandwagon vote. By gaining days, we get to use our votes later in the game when there is more information, and more reliable information. Vote when you suspect someone is a rogue by all means, but dont vote merely because you feel you should.  @Rare As in house ROMS historian and mod of the last game, you'll be very aware that I voted CrazyMG last game round one after beginning along my preferred pro-abstain line. So to state that I am in the "always abstain first round camp" is twisting my stance to present a more extreme and alternative image that supports your vote. Why would you wish to twist my stance to present a more extreme and alternative image that supports your vote? Im not sure but didn't george w bush do that once? I am also interested in my attitude that you want to stamp on, please would you expand? I have seen through working with you how you think and operate as a rogue, so I will be watching you madame .@Talisker  Im getting a similar vibe from you this game to last. I am not comfortable with how you present what I post, it feels like you are adding flavour to my sentences again. Last time you did that you were a rogue. I will also be watching you good sir .@Kotetsu  I love your quote most of all, refusal to hunt rogues? did you assume? you know what that makes Kot :P I didnt find Jokerina or Tae to be particularly unreasonable. @Tae I liked the idea of getting votes and intentions down early in the last game. theres always time to change it until the deadline passes. I may leave it there, or if like in Prison break I find something to be worthy, Ill switch to a vote. I've not had much time at home these last couple of days due to pre olympic setup at work which = 12hour days topped off by my 5 hours commuting means little time for sleep, that said I love ROMS and have no intention of shirking my responsibilities. I will be able to settle down after tomorrow, but just in case anyone has plans on assuming otherwise Im not done for the day yet, I might yet vote, and I dont like grilled cheese sandwiches hey quit hoggin the text captain greedy, I havent had a word yet ok go ahead, say something erm, Ugh, well now you put me on the spot GEEZE. huem, well I do like grilled cheese sandwiches, and. erm i need to sleep. oh and Riku is awesome, I like reading Riku's posts. whatever his alignment he is really good and Bunny Larue. ok sleep *headdesk* he's right tho, time for bed. Ill bring cookies tomorrow with more about more ---------------------------------------- 'Tis not true, that I are psychologically challenged I prefers the term "Mentally Hilarious" Smiley Could very well be a rogue. |
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smileo
Joined: Aug 28, 2006 Posts: 1635 Status: Offline |
stoopid img tags oh and before we go, please Kotetsu go on some more about our behavior we was enjoying your in depth analysis but it seems unfinished. ---------------------------------------- 'Tis not true, that I are psychologically challenged I prefers the term "Mentally Hilarious" Smiley Could very well be a rogue. |
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Lotsofgoats
Joined: Apr 4, 2005 Posts: 10163 Status: Offline |
what in the... how did you sink his name down... does anybody else see that weird subscripty-looking WHAT HAVE YOU DONE SMILEY D: OKAY DOUBLE WEIRD because it shows up normal in a preview... freaking mvnforums ---------------------------------------- I am Lotsofgoats and I approve this message. |
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RogueQuitex
Joined: May 2, 2012 Posts: 132 Status: Offline |
If you currently have a vote standing, whether it's a vote against another player or an abstain, and you want to retract it without casting another vote, you need to unvote. I guess a simple #unvote:(whatever) would do. ---------------------------------------- Co-Moderating ROMS DCXV with Rogue_JM (ROMS XV: DC) I'm full of the evilz. BANZORZ! |
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Talisker
Joined: Jul 24, 2003 Posts: 11261 Status: Offline |
Regarding no rogue hunting, that impression comes to me for several reasons. The first being the very early abstain. The second being the non-commenting on most of the stuff in thread. The only comment on current events was:
The phrase "it's frivolous to seek a rogue there" is a pretty clear statement that it's silly to look for a rogue in Phoenyx. His comment that it's a "brick not a wall" is later explained, but at the time wasn't at all. It's still unexplained as to why it's silly to look for a rogue in Phoenyx. Stepping into the middle of a busy Day, saying, "Nothing to see here" and voting abstain is likely to give the impression you're not much interested in rogue hunting. ---------------------------------------- Leif The Forums
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Talisker
Joined: Jul 24, 2003 Posts: 11261 Status: Offline |
You know, while it's fresh on my mind, I think calling anyone a condescending twit is more than a "borderline insult." It's not called for. ---------------------------------------- Leif The Forums
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The_Jokerina
Joined: May 20, 2012 Posts: 16 Status: Offline |
@MrBriney: re: pressure votes I see now. The way you had originally said it, I was led to believe that you did not like pressure votes at all, even in cases where it was to prevent someone from coasting.
I don't necessarily agree with the argument, "I would do that as a rogue, so they're a rogue" however, I am satisfied now that we know what triggered your gut.
From what I've seen of past games, there is the usual "To abstain or not to abstain" discussion. I must say, I am not the biggest fan of this repeated discussion as it is quite easy for rogues to regurgitate one of the side's arguments. Knowing people's stances is nice, however, we'll see them when the time comes. I had intended to post this earlier but heh, I got a little side tracked.
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riku743
Joined: Jan 19, 2009 Posts: 1812 Status: Offline |
I don't really disagree with the rest of what you said, but I wouldn't say that his "brick not a wall" requires a lot of explanation, and besides, he's used the analogy in previous games. ---------------------------------------- Nil used to play Mala. Lurking on the forums. |
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Talisker
Joined: Jul 24, 2003 Posts: 11261 Status: Offline |
This struck me in part because of an earlier quote:
It's never too early to start looking looking for rogues, and Day 1 is only as fruitless as you want it to be. Rogues have been caught in the past as a result of Day 1 discussion. ---------------------------------------- Leif The Forums
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taelac
Joined: Sep 17, 2005 Posts: 3762 Status: Offline |
On the contrary, it was something I knew he had to have, and he did eventually provide some further explanation. There had to be something that triggered his gut response--if it was legitimate instead of rogue fabrication. "Gut," by itself, is not any sort of justification for a vote. ---------------------------------------- ~Taelac ROMS XVII:Vanilla Filler Dead Thread |
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Talisker
Joined: Jul 24, 2003 Posts: 11261 Status: Offline |
In the shower it occurred to me that Phoenyx's modquestion was without a doubt a JMT. When you get a response like this one:
or
you have most definitely given the impression of innocence without stating innocence. Whether it's indicative of roguehood or not is an exercise for the reader. I disagree that only rogues can JMT. Anyone can, it's a tool in the rogue toolbox though. For myself, I think the attempt to play it off in the middle of her big post
makes me lean to low FoS and an additional FoH for the insults. The casual dismissal of something demonstrably a JMT stuck out to me. ---------------------------------------- Leif The Forums
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Luvessy
Joined: Dec 1, 2003 Posts: 2666 Status: Offline |
Howdy! Well, I've been out and about and considerin' all this here talk about Ms. Phoenyx and the conclusion that I'm coming to is that I find Ms. Randomact the most suspicious of the whole ordeal. you see, I reckon that asking about night actions is some that an innocent is more likely to do than a rogue, particularly if the rogues are in communication with one another. Sure, it could be used as a JMT for a rogue to try to appear all innocent-like, but I don't think that that quite fits. So what I conclude from this is that it's rather more suspect for Ms. Randomact to point out the subtle confession Ms. Phoenyx might have been making unintentionally than it is for Ms. Phoenyx to have done it. Now then, this whole theory of mine starts to get complicated when I start considering the reactions people gave - this is something that I would have to be reviewing, as I remeber only Mr. Talisker cause he's been quoted a might bit, but I know that there were others who were quick to jump to agreement with Ms. Random. Another one who has caught my attention is Ms. Clasalle. It was as she was talking, and she went and said:
Well, I muddled over this for a bit and was struck by her sentiment there, the "not left an impression" and well, I just thought, "Golly gee, that's a right short list so early in meeting folks." Well, at that point I myself had only spoken up once and I don't reckon that I said a whole lot. So I was left wondering why I wasn't on that list and what impression Ms. Clasalle would have and also thinking about there's a whole host more people that I'd have to put out there myself were I to list such a thing. Now, Lyaka went and asked about items and I don't reckon that there's much cause to go talking about hidden things. I will say that I've seen items at least twice before and there are a few different ways that they might be used - sometimes they pass every night no matter what and sometimes only after they've been used and sometimes when someone wants to pass them along cause they think someone else ought to hold 'em. And really, I reckon whatever which way this happens here in DC, we'd best not go talking about it and spreading rumors. at least not yet when there's more harm than good that could come from it. Oh, I also remember Lyaka asking about whose "alt" someone was. Well, I know that means alter-ego and some will disagree with me, but the way I figure it if someone is going and changing their name and all, well, they probably just don't want to be known by their old name and it's not right useful for us folk to try to puzzle out who they used to be. But that's just my opinion and I don't know that it really matters all that much to what's going on. Anyways, I best be going out for a bit and off to ponder more things. I'll be seeing y'all later, Spirit-willing. ---------------------------------------- --Mistymate (Avatar by Sancha.) |
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RogueQuitex
Joined: May 2, 2012 Posts: 132 Status: Offline |
 ---------------------------------------- Co-Moderating ROMS DCXV with Rogue_JM (ROMS XV: DC) I'm full of the evilz. BANZORZ! |
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riku743
Joined: Jan 19, 2009 Posts: 1812 Status: Offline |
I can say from my own experience that gut feelings are not always (and not often) triggered by something specific. In fact, that's what usually leads them to be characterized as gut feels -- someone reads as suspicious, but you can't nail down why. Trying to pin a justification to a gut often leads you to over-placing suspicion on something that really isn't that suspicious, due to trying to account for your gut feeling. I quite disagree with your assessment that gut suspicions must have a concrete trigger behind them. If it did, it would hardly be a gut suspicion. ---------------------------------------- Nil used to play Mala. Lurking on the forums. |
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DementedDuck
Joined: Mar 31, 2006 Posts: 3153 Status: Offline |
I woke up today, turned my laptop on and it didn't work. I proceeded to freak out. Then I had to go to college for an hour before meeting Furare at the train station (cause she's visiting me yaaaaay) so I didn't have any chance to fiddle with my laptop and I was super worried I'd have to play this game from my phone. Then I got home a little while ago and it worked. :D
Here if you wanted to find it. I need to reread before I can comment on much because I read everything that's been posted since the down time on a phone in a pub, but one thing I have read enough of to comment on is the smileo situation. I think it's unfair to say he's not hunting rogues. I'm biased in that I agree with his stance - first round voting is pretty much a crapshoot and I don't feel comfortable voting with reasons I know are weak. I know some people disagree with that but that doesn't stop it being a valid opinion. We ought to agree to disagree on that, at least in the case of people who are consistently in the same camp as far as abstaining goes. The one thing I wouldn't do that he has done is vote so early, and I explained why earlier. But if he knows he's going to be around to change his vote if necessary, it doesn't make much difference. And for the record, I like grilled cheese sandwiches too. I also need to sleep. ---------------------------------------- Evilduck/Superduck. Emerald, Cerulean, and that other one. Now in Obsidian flavour. I record puzzles. |
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taelac
Joined: Sep 17, 2005 Posts: 3762 Status: Offline |
Gut suspicions are free to be triggered by the phase of the moon, the lunch menu, or the color of the third sweater seen on the train that day. Gut votes without a concrete trigger, on the other hand, are sufficient to rouse my suspicion. Mrbriney did not pass go, nor collect $200. He went straight to "Vote! Gut." That, to me, required clarification, which has now been provided. ---------------------------------------- ~Taelac ROMS XVII:Vanilla Filler Dead Thread |
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Lotsofgoats
Joined: Apr 4, 2005 Posts: 10163 Status: Offline |
I know that riku is generally playing defense lawyer in many arguments made in the game, but this one seems off. Insisting that "gut" is enough of a reason when it's the first vote in the game on a player who's posted 4 times in a span of < 12 hours... That seems to be ignoring a whooooole lot of circumstances for the benefit of briney. Briney's done as much as state that it's gut based on things that he does as a rogue, but I can't recall him ever even explaining what those things are. It's about as abstract as it gets. It's like rissa's dreamvote, but in different words and earlier in the game. Defending that as a third party looks to me like the scenarios I listed before -- a rogue trying to buddy-buddy with a townie, or a rogue trying to save his buddy-buddy's bum. #Vote: riku ---------------------------------------- I am Lotsofgoats and I approve this message. |
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riku743
Joined: Jan 19, 2009 Posts: 1812 Status: Offline |
So you find the reason he gave to be sufficient?
I did not ever say that "gut" is enough of a reason. I think that in general, votes should be supported by more than gut. However, people's ways of going about attacking him for it have bothered me. Is there a point to saying "Give me more justification to your vote" when he has already said "My justification for my vote is gut"? Backing off after he comes up with some is silly. He didn't have that justification when he voted, so why is his vote okay now that he applied reasoning ad-hoc?
---------------------------------------- Nil used to play Mala. Lurking on the forums. |
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riku743
Joined: Jan 19, 2009 Posts: 1812 Status: Offline |
I swear I wrote post-hoc... ---------------------------------------- Nil used to play Mala. Lurking on the forums. |
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JMRUDNICK
Joined: Aug 3, 2008 Posts: 173 Status: Offline |
Either way I honestly feel no matter how I answer this question I might be at a lose/lose situation, but here goes! Truth time: I may have been seriously confused or mislead on what the correct terminology to what JMT meant. Might also be because I haven't actually seen a JMT in a game I have played, other than glancing at HS Security and noticing Elliptic's two posts regarding a JMT. Low Security.. I don't think we had that many JMT's and if we did they weren't hardcore noticeable, or if any it was an innocent declaring themselves being innocent rather than a rogue trying to declare themselves innocent. Apparently, I myself, did an subconscious JMT comment my first game.. ---------------------------------------- JeanneMarie of Obsidian Formerly of Meridian Captain of Lion's Roar Princess of Placeholder |
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taelac
Joined: Sep 17, 2005 Posts: 3762 Status: Offline |
I find it sufficient to let it drop and withhold my vote for the time being, but I retain some suspicion on Mrbriney and will be watching him closely. ---------------------------------------- ~Taelac ROMS XVII:Vanilla Filler Dead Thread |
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