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scupperer

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Cultured Meats - will You? Reply to this Post
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Cultured meats will be on sale in the next year or two, probably showing up in some select restaurants first, then later to the shelves as the prices come down.

I believe there's a restaurant in the Philippines already serving cultured chicken.

I think it'll be the greatest thing since sliced bread, if it actually tastes and textures like real meat, and they really manage to get the price competitive. The chicken is currently about $16/lb, but they're expecting to get it down to $4/lb in a year or two.

Long term, it might bring an end to, or at least drastically reduce several environmentally devastating practices: overfishing, bush-meat & poaching, pig farms, cattle farms, chicken farms, llama farms, sheep farms, and most importantly, goat farms.

All of the land used for those purposes can be returned to nature, and the sea might get a chance to recover its populations.

If you're currently a meat-eater, would you choose cultured meat over your regular fare?

If you're a vegetarian/vegan - would you eat cultured meat if there's no ethical quandary about its source (ie: sourced from adult stem cells).

If you're Jewish - would you be able to eat meats that otherwise wouldn't be kosher? I've had some discussions with my orthodox Son-in-law about this, but he refuses to take a firm position.

Would you be willing to try endangered animal meat, knowing that no animals were harmed in preparation of that dinner?
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[May 13, 2021 4:42:18 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.scupperer.com [Link]  Go to top 
Crazymg

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If you're a vegetarian/vegan - would you eat cultured meat if there's no ethical quandary about its source (ie: sourced from adult stem cells).


I might be willing to try some things but one of my issues with meat is also texture (which even causes some mock meats currently on the market to become a no go) so most will still be off limits for me. If it got to the point of them being made into deli meats like salami I might be more interested as I can handle the texture more when it's thinly sliced but I feel guilty when I do eat it.
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Erfan

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Sweden is BIG on meat alternatives, so there are a TON of these options already on the market here, and the Swedish version of McDonalds offers a plant based beef patty as a substitute for no extra charge. I don't eat there often, but it's become my default to substitute it in when I do and I think it's AMAZING. I stopped eating fish. Burger King has a Beyond one for both the beef and chicken that I think that is AWFUL. We have a lot of protein substitutes made with soy and wheat, but we're also getting a lot of really new things with peas that are pretty cool.
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scupperer

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Crazymg: I feel guilty when I do eat it

This is one of the things I'm curious about. Assuming there's soon a lab-grown product with a taste and texture you do enjoy, would that sense of guilt still be there?

I imagine deli products might even be easier to produce with lab-grown meat, than cuts of steak, so 3D printed salami might be available sooner than a New York strip.

 
Erfan: We have a lot of protein substitutes made with soy and wheat

Unfortunately for me, this is why I can't even try most of the meat substitutes currently on the market; I can't eat anything with wheat, and I don't do well with soy. This is one of the reasons I'm so looking forward to lab-grown meats.

I don't do well on a vegetarian diet; I need a high level of fats and proteins to keep my blood sugars stable, and that's tough on veggies alone.

 
Erfan: I stopped eating fish.

Is it a moral decision? Would you start again if it were lab-grown? This company is already making yellow-fin tuna. Another one in Singapore is working on shrimp.

"There's pineapple shrimp, lemon shrimp, coconut shrimp, pepper shrimp, shrimp soup, shrimp stew, shrimp salad, shrimp and potatoes, shrimp burger, shrimp sandwich. That -- that's about it." Well, and shrimp tacos.

I shouldn't write about food when I'm hungry.
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[May 14, 2021 2:40:28 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.scupperer.com [Link]  Go to top 
Crazymg

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Crazymg: I feel guilty when I do eat it

This is one of the things I'm curious about. Assuming there's soon a lab-grown product with a taste and texture you do enjoy, would that sense of guilt still be there?


Some guilt will be there due to the family pressure of If I eat something one day I'll be expected to eat it again and I'm letting myself down by eating something occasionally and blurring those lines of what I am or am not OK with eating but the guilt of eating animals I think will be diminished.

 
Swedish version of McDonalds offers a plant based beef patty as a substitute for no extra charge.
Recently McDonalds in NZ had a veggie burger but it was a complete joke, the patty was seriously just veggies, potato, peas, corn, carrot. Aaaand they still gave me a McChicken the first time I ordered it.


 
Burger King has a Beyond one for both the beef and chicken that I think that is AWFUL.
I LOVE the BK alternatives we have here, I think the beef is made from soy and I just looked and the chicken is from a NZ company and made from a blend of wheat and pea protein. I've bought their nuggets in supermarkets before but only just realised they did BK chicken too.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Crazymg at May 16, 2021 5:10:52 AM]
[May 14, 2021 4:14:47 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Erfan

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Scups: Unfortunately for me, this is why I can't even try most of the meat substitutes currently on the market; I can't eat anything with wheat, and I don't do well with soy. This is one of the reasons I'm so looking forward to lab-grown meats.
Yeah, that seems to be a common thing with the vegans and vegetarians in my life, it seems. The pea based protein is gaining steam here, there are two different companies doing it now. Sproud even makes a pea based milk.

 
 
Erfan: I stopped eating fish.

Scups: Is it a moral decision? Would you start again if it were lab-grown? This company is already making yellow-fin tuna. Another one in Singapore is working on shrimp.
I saw Seaspiracy and dove into the data like everyone else that doesn't eat fish anymore as of the last month or two XD I have heard about those, but don't miss fish enough to go for the extra cost, TBH
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Nemesis says, "Since Erfan joined us, let me just give a blanket, totally not directed at anyone (ERFAN), warning that certain topics are not to be talked about on the docks."
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scupperer

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Erfan: I saw Seaspiracy ... don't miss fish enough to go for the extra cost


Just watched it again - still incredibly depressing. From a 'human' perspective, it's simply amazing how having an agenda and financial need will warp people's decision making processes in the face of probable outcomes and the damage incurred.

I think the cost factor of lab-grown will solve itself over the course of a couple of years. Being gluten-free, I already pay 300%-400% the cost of wheat bread to buy anything baking related that I can eat, so I'm used to ridiculous prices when I need to satisfy a craving that is beyond my own culinary skills.

My own personal pain threshold for lab-grown will be about 2-3x the price for fish. I do love seafood, but I've limited my current seafood intake to crawfish (currently in season!) - the trap bycatch rate is low, and what is bycaught can either also be eaten or be freed easier than net trawling, so it's one of the safer harvesting methods. And hell, I'm from New Orleans - it's tradition!

I suspect, though, that most lab-grown meats will be less expensive than their animal-meat counterparts in about five years as manufacturing will scale up exponentially as soon as automation is solved and available nutrient sources for the cultures scale up.

 
Erfan: pea based milk.

Thankfully, I don't have any dietary issues with dairy, and morally, I've decided that dairy/egg collection isn't an issue provided the animals are well cared for.

If I can find a plant-meat blend that doesn't have soy/wheat, I will give pea-based products a try. I do like the occasional black-bean burger, but it's hard on the stomach.
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Look for the ridiculous in everything and you will find it. - Jules Renard
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Erfan

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They have these like, strips from peas here and the texture on them is AWFUL but if you cut them thin and cook them they crisp up a little and the texture is quite similar to like, carnitas. But then you're still basically frying your food, which is not that healthy either.
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Nemesis says, "Since Erfan joined us, let me just give a blanket, totally not directed at anyone (ERFAN), warning that certain topics are not to be talked about on the docks."
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scupperer

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They have these like, strips from peas here and the texture on them is AWFUL but if you cut them thin and cook them they crisp up a little and the texture is quite similar to like, carnitas. But then you're still basically frying your food, which is not that healthy either.


Deep frying is the only thing really bad. I've switched to an air fryer adapter for my instapot. Just lightly spray your food with some oil and it fries right up without creating lots of trans-fat byproducts like deep frying does. I usually use olive oil, because, despite common belief, it has a very high flash point at 410 F (210 C), so cooking at up to 390 F (200 C) is safe and won't burn the oil (causing the trans-fats).

When I do deep fry, though, I use an induction cooker, because it has no hot spots that will burn the oil, the heat recovery time is incredible, and there's no fire risk if oil splashes.

Okay, I'm done with my product placement post :) I shall give pea strips a try if I can find them.
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I will be heartily disappointed if we don't eventually get Kingston's Bison Boar hot dogs.
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scupperer

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I just found out about cultured-dairy. No cows are used, but the milk protein produced is identical. Same process could be applied to goat milk, buffalo milk, etc.

They basically brew it in huge vats with GMO microbes, then filter out the microbes and you're left with a GMO free, lactose-free dairy product.

So if you're not allergic to whey, but have problems with lactose - perfect stuff.

One company, Brave Robot is making Ice Cream with it. I can even buy it at the grocery store I go to. So I will. I'll report back once I've tried some.

I can't find anyone selling it just as milk, yet, though, or making cheese or butter with it.
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[May 26, 2021 2:19:06 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.scupperer.com [Link]  Go to top 
Crazymg

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Now that's something I'm more interested in, lactase tablets are something I always carry with me nowadays. I've never liked the taste of milk but I love cheese and enjoy most other dairy. Some vegan ice cream is alright but cheeses don't cut it, and why spend more on dairy-free ice cream with limited flavour options when I can take a tablet and have anything I want.
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Erfan

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I can't find anyone selling it just as milk, yet, though, or making cheese or butter with it.

My kingdom for ethical cheese
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scupperer

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Found it at Kroger! It was BOGO for $6, so I got the 4 flavors without wheat in them. I have since tried the "A Lot of Chocolate" and the "PB & Fudge". The chocolate is awesome. The PB & Fudge seems lacking on the fudge part, but my palette might have been tainted from trying the chocolate first.

The taste & texture is ice cream, plus there's no carrageenan in the ingredients - which always gives me stomach cramps. So far, I don't seem to be melting or turning into a vat-spawned GMO monster. I think I'll make it 'till morning...

If not on sale, it would be just a little pricier than Ben & Jerry's, but it's definitely worth it at the sale price I found it at.
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Erfan

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Oatly has a hazelnut ice cream that is AMAZING. I have been able to find some very good ice cream replacements, but I am always concerned because it seems the fat content comes from oil, which... isn't that great. Definitely would try animal free milk ice cream
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I'm a fussy eater, and I haven't even tried the veggie meats. So I probably won't try them anytime soon. However, if in like 20 - 30 year meat farming is massively restricted or banned, as cultured meats dominate the market, then I'll probably have switched over.
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scupperer

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While it’s hard to predict if the culture will turn completely against farm meat production, it’s surprisingly easy to predict how rapidly cultured meat will grow as an industry, since it should follow the same exponential growth pattern as other similar disruptive technologies of the past.

This article: https://www.foodnavigator-usa.com/Article/2021/03/15/When-will-cell-cultured-meat-reach-price-parity-with-conventional-meat

Price parity of equivalent “ground meat” products by 2030. Mastery of more complicated muscle/fat growth around the same time frame. And as the products become more price competitive, the farm produced meat starts becoming even more expensive as they won’t be able to maintain a profit and begin scaling back or shutting down.

It will all happen very rapidly towards the end of the growth curve, so there might not even be a ‘need’ for a cultural banning of farmed meat: it will be reduced to a niche, expensive specialty product, and few will consider lab grown unusual.
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LJAmethyst

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Veganism and vegetarianism is offensive to me. It's disgusting. Nobody can survive without meat. It's a miserable existence. Have you seen any real studies on how vegs have to desperately scrape for protein and vitamins and nutrients that come naturally in meat? It's highly undignified. Vegs are acting contrary to nature and they will eventually pay the price.

So why should we have to bow to the new fascism that says farmers are not allowed to farm animals? To eat disgusting lab-grown and lab-processed mystery food is an indignity that will not be forced on me.

All hail the New Flesh.
All hail the New Flesh.
All hail the New Flesh!
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[Edit 4 times, last edit by LJAmethyst at Jun 13, 2021 9:44:28 AM]
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Does this mean that eventually I'll have to go to a speakeasy to get naturally produced meat?
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Veganism and vegetarianism is offensive to me. It's disgusting. Nobody can survive without meat. It's a miserable existence.

After reading your original unedited post I'm glad I offend you. Do the Gluten-free offend you too? How do you feel when I mention tofu?

 
Have you seen any real studies on how vegs have to desperately scrape for protein and vitamins and nutrients that come naturally in meat? It's highly undignified.
https://nutritionfacts.org/video/do-vegetarians-get-enough-protein/. B12 doesn't exactly "come naturally" in meat either.
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Thank you, LJ, for that descriptive look into the future where protestors are battling each other over the right to choose what we put into our bodies. Consumption philosophies turn into digestive fanaticism, which becomes openly hostile and the terror will bake deep into our restaurants, groceries and kitchens.

This could be a very undercooked and flavorless future, indeed.

Majestry, I suppose it would be an eateasy.
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Veganism and vegetarianism is offensive to me. It's disgusting. Nobody can survive without meat. It's a miserable existence. Have you seen any real studies on how vegs have to desperately scrape for protein and vitamins and nutrients that come naturally in meat? It's highly undignified. Vegs are acting contrary to nature and they will eventually pay the price.


I really hope you are just making a poor attempt to troll people, as otherwise you have come across as extremely uneducated. Or just one of those crazy people who a few months ago believed Joe Biden was going to place restrictions on the amount of meat Americans could have a year....
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