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majestrate

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Re: Obsidian Beta Suggestions Reply to this Post
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I'd ask that the chat colors be changed in some way, as well - they're all blending together.

With how close the chat color palettes already are, what if the /global, /trade, /faction chat bubbles had different shapes they all had a shorter character limit so that those chat bubbles would be noticeably different than other chat bubbles?
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LJAmethyst

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Place markets on all islands. Turn off Merchant Brigands. Force players to bid and transport all goods everywhere.

This is supposed to be the hardcore PVP ocean. Part of the failure of PVP on other oceans is the fact that nobody carries any booty or commodities if they know what is good for them.
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Retired as of August 2015.
Sic transit gloria mundi.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by LJAmethyst at Jul 5, 2017 3:41:30 PM]
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Leathalx

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Ahoy!

I have a suggestion regarding the two rowboat factions on Port Venture. I'm not sure If new pirates will notice the Shadow Fleet and Defiant Armada rowboats. My suggestion would be:

1) Lock the words on the two rowboat's and the recruiter's so that they're always showing and maybe add an exclamation mark to each of the rowboats, the exclamation mark could possibly match the factions color.

2) Place two arrows pointing to the faction rowboats (color of the arrows could be matching the faction colors)

Also, it seems to me like Defiant Armada's rowboat and Recruiting hut is a bit further than Shadow Fleet.


Please feel free to send me a PM or find me in game.
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madesteven

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I think Rum might have been turned on a little to soon! :P
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Jacada
Senior Officer - Anarchist Syndicate
Lord of Versus Terminus
Obsidian Ocean
Defiant Armada



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Shinito

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Place markets on all islands. Turn off Merchant Brigands. Force players to bid and transport all goods everywhere.

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Thorkill on Malachite 2.0 Obsidian
[Jul 5, 2017 6:13:28 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
BobJanova

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Place markets on all islands. Turn off Merchant Brigands. Force players to bid and transport all goods everywhere.

That's actually a good idea. Make resource control and interception a thing.
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[Jul 6, 2017 4:02:49 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
xelto

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Place markets on all islands. Turn off Merchant Brigands. Force players to bid and transport all goods everywhere.

That's actually a good idea. Make resource control and interception a thing.

Eh, only maybe. This is Puzzle Pirates, after all, not Puzzle Merchants. I know how much I dread making long trade runs because of the sheer boredom factor, and I'm on an ocean where I don't have to anticipate being intercepted on top of it. I can only picture it being worse if you have to regularly move wood, hemp, or other bulky commodities.
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"Oh, come on. You jobbed onto a ship called the Cursed Isle Raider and you expected *refined*?"
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by xelto at Jul 6, 2017 5:05:46 PM]
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shademan987

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Eh, only maybe. This is Puzzle Pirates, after all, not Puzzle Merchants. I know how much I dread making long trade runs because of the sheer boredom factor, and I'm on an ocean where I don't have to anticipate being intercepted on top of it. I can only picture it being worse if you have to regularly move wood, hemp, or other bulky commodities.


Pirate: noun "1. a person who robs or commits illegal violence at sea or on the shores of the sea."

None of us are pirates by that definition. Plundering bots is not true piracy because there's no theft involved. It's simply harvesting resources. Removing NPP merchants would actually let pirates be pirates. It would let us plunder and terrorize the sea like pirates are supposed to. Does this make life harder for those moving cargo? Absolutely, but that's the risk ye take by becoming a captain! The ocean should feel dangerous and risky in a world filled with pirates. I find it sad that you can haul precious cargo across the ocean while sitting half-asleep at the keyboard. The process boring because the game lets you be lazy and not have to do anything. I find the idea of planning out my voyage and making sure my vessel is protected WAY more fun than mindlessly sailing from point A to B.

Just my two cents. I think it's a great idea to axe merchant brigands on Obsidian. Right now we're Puzzle Pirates only in name.
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You cannot swim for new horizons until you have courage to lose sight of the shore.
-- William Faulkner


Dashy | Suspicious Activity | Obsidian Ocean
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[Edit 5 times, last edit by shademan987 at Jul 6, 2017 6:26:57 PM]
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Scarpath

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Re: Obsidian Beta Suggestions Reply to this Post
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Eh, only maybe. This is Puzzle Pirates, after all, not Puzzle Merchants. I know how much I dread making long trade runs because of the sheer boredom factor, and I'm on an ocean where I don't have to anticipate being intercepted on top of it. I can only picture it being worse if you have to regularly move wood, hemp, or other bulky commodities.


Pirate: noun "1. a person who robs or commits illegal violence at sea or on the shores of the sea."

None of us pirates by that definition. Plundering bots is not true piracy because there's no theft involved. It's simply harvesting resources. Removing NPP merchants would actually let pirates be pirates. It would let us plunder and terrorize the sea like pirates are supposed to. Does this make life harder for those moving cargo? Absolutely, but that's the risk ye take by becoming a captain! The ocean *should* feel dangerous and risky in a world filled with pirates. I find it sad that you can haul precious cargo across the ocean while sitting half-asleep at the keyboard. The process boring because the game lets you be lazy and not have to do anything. I find the idea of planning out my voyage and making sure my vessel is protected WAY more fun than mindlessly sailing from point A to B.

Just my two cents. I think it's a great idea to axe merchant brigands on Obsidian. Right now we're Puzzle Pirates only in name.


I'd like for Obsidian to be truly different from the other oceans myself, to be honest. And to TRULY have that PvP aspect. And a reason not to sink your opponent. I think it's a great idea.

/tell (their officer) Don't sink me! I have lots of commods! Don't waste 5k wood!
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Scarpath on Emerald, Cerulean, and Meridian!

Also Scarpath on Obsidian, Defiant to the core.

Your grammar should at least be as good as mine, take the time to make it decent!
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NickScorpio

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/tell (their officer) Don't sink me! I have lots of commods! Don't waste 5k wood!


I'm not a PVP navver but I would encourage sinking any ship that is moving wood. Or Hemp

Or Sugar.

Just on the hope that the person would wise up and pay a little extra dockside to have their free time for more productive measures than moving cheap items for little profit that are so bulky.
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Hankscorpio
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Scarpath

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Just on the hope that the person would wise up and pay a little extra dockside to have their free time for more productive measures than moving cheap items for little profit that are so bulky.


Ahem. I have run a pair of stalls well enough that I had to run a merchant brig about once a week to get wood. And this was on Lincoln Island, hardly seeing much compared to it's more popular arch-mates. Trust me, if it was moved to this sort of system, there would be ships of wood moved. Often.
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Scarpath on Emerald, Cerulean, and Meridian!

Also Scarpath on Obsidian, Defiant to the core.

Your grammar should at least be as good as mine, take the time to make it decent!
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NickScorpio

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Ahem. I have run a pair of stalls well enough that I had to run a merchant brig about once a week to get wood. And this was on Lincoln Island, hardly seeing much compared to it's more popular arch-mates. Trust me, if it was moved to this sort of system, there would be ships of wood moved. Often.


That doesn't make it right.

Maybe I'll offer a bounty of a familiar on Emerald to anyone that sinks a ship moving wood.

Fams there will probably be dropping to about the same price per unit real soon.
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Hankscorpio
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NickScorpio

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On a more serious note....

I have a suggestion for Obsidian. Change the formula for rum to eliminate the need to provide expert distilling. Maybe make it 2 basic & 4 skilled, instead of 2/2/2. It's hard enough to find expert distilling at a shoppe with bigger holds and more labor throughput. Spreading out the market to stalls will only make the problem worse.

I think this change would benefit every ocean probably.

IMs can make any kind of shot without expert labor. Why can't distilleries make any kind of...beverage.
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Hankscorpio
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zanreth

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I would like to suggest an adjustment to navy routes. Right now you can do Port Venture -> Kreis, which is five leagues, which is about long enough if a bit short. The other option is one of the Stronghold navies, which lets you do a three league point puzzle session. In my opinion this is far too short for newbies and even experienced pirates trying to learn new puzzles to get to grips with a puzzle board before it's reset.

I am not the best pirate on the seas, but I have mastered some puzzles. I think it would be a huge improvement to adjust the stronghold navies so they did loops of three islands, for example, Lionhaven -> Anole Garden -> Ridley's Valor -> Lionhaven. This would be a nine league point voyage which is, in my opinion, a significantly more pleasant stretch of time to spend on a puzzle station to learn the new moves.

In contrast on Hunter for example, a pirate could sail Queztal -> Aimuari/Matariki when the ocean opened, for a seven league point voyage.
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Albert, Obsidian, Defiant Armada
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Thunderbird

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Re: Obsidian Beta Suggestions Reply to this Post
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On a more serious note....

I have a suggestion for Obsidian. Change the formula for rum to eliminate the need to provide expert distilling. Maybe make it 2 basic & 4 skilled, instead of 2/2/2. It's hard enough to find expert distilling at a shoppe with bigger holds and more labor throughput. Spreading out the market to stalls will only make the problem worse.

I think this change would benefit every ocean probably.

IMs can make any kind of shot without expert labor. Why can't distilleries make any kind of...beverage.


People can sail any ship with swill or grog, which don't require expert labor. However, each ship has a certain size of cannon ball that it needs to fire from the cannons, you can't put small cannon balls on a war frigate and be able to use them.

Personally, I think it'd be better to just eliminate swill and fine rum (maybe move the name and graphic for fine rum to grog) and just have one rum type.
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Pirate tells you, "my, that's one BIG wad o' chewing gum ye have mounted on yer bonce! oO'"
Sungod officer chats, "I wonder if anyone's sailing the harpsichord"
Pirate tells you, "ZOMG CANDYFLOSS!!! *munches*"
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wrs1864b

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/tell (their officer) Don't sink me! I have lots of commods! Don't waste 5k wood!

and
 
Ahem. I have run a pair of stalls well enough that I had to run a merchant brig about once a week to get wood.

You would make your case better if you didn't post things that show you know almost nothing about shopkeeping. I went and looked at your dock-side offers over the years and they confirm that you have never been a successful shopkeeper. (You had one store in the end of 2014 and a few badly run stores starting in end of 2016.)

Xelto is right. Long trade runs, especially with bulky goods is boring. Since OOO/GH have way inflated the payouts of all the other parts of the game, trade runs are now boring and really low paying. This is a game, it needs to be fun. We are not pirates, real pirates would be hung if the lost a single battle.

If you eliminated <merchant> bots, paying 1k per unit of rum would be considered cheap. (and similar prices for everything else.) Maybe that would make the whole game funner, but I suspect not.
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Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by wrs1864b at Jul 7, 2017 5:16:23 AM]
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NickScorpio

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People can sail any ship with swill or grog, which don't require expert labor. However, each ship has a certain size of cannon ball that it needs to fire from the cannons, you can't put small cannon balls on a war frigate and be able to use them.

Personally, I think it'd be better to just eliminate swill and fine rum (maybe move the name and graphic for fine rum to grog) and just have one rum type.



Of course you can sail with swill or grog. I do quite often. On Emerald anyways, swill is usually the cheapest after factoring in conversion rates and usually what I use.

However, most people don't.

And there is a ripple effect that drives up the prices of those commodities, too.

I would not be opposed to cutting down from 3 types of "gas" for ships to 1. But I think the issue of requiring expert distilling is a legitimate one that negatively impacts the ocean economy.
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Hankscorpio
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majestrate

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Leathalx wrote: 
Ahoy!

I have a suggestion regarding the two rowboat factions on Port Venture. I'm not sure If new pirates will notice the Shadow Fleet and Defiant Armada rowboats. My suggestion would be:

1) Lock the words on the two rowboat's and the recruiter's so that they're always showing and maybe add an exclamation mark to each of the rowboats, the exclamation mark could possibly match the factions color.

2) Place two arrows pointing to the faction rowboats (color of the arrows could be matching the faction colors)

Also, it seems to me like Defiant Armada's rowboat and Recruiting hut is a bit further than Shadow Fleet.

I'm not sure about the text bubble always showing. I think it should be either the text bubble or the exclamation mark. IMO, both aren't necessary. (a temporary exclamation point might suffice?)

I agree with putting the arrows down and having them point to the rowboats, not sure about changing their colors though.

DA's hut/rowboat definitely does seem further from the dock than SF's hut/rowboat. That likely makes no difference for players familiar with the concept of Obsidian, but when we start getting new players to the game, it might lead them to SF just because of proximity.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by majestrate at Jul 7, 2017 11:24:31 AM]
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shademan987

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Xelto is right. Long trade runs, especially with bulky goods is boring. Since OOO/GH have way inflated the payouts of all the other parts of the game, trade runs are now boring and really low paying. This is a game, it needs to be fun. We are not pirates, real pirates would be hung if the lost a single battle.

If you eliminated <merchant> bots, paying 1k per unit of rum would be considered cheap. (and similar prices for everything else.) Maybe that would make the whole game funner, but I suspect not.


Those are valid points, but what do we do about the listless PvP? For as long as I remember, engaging other pirates has always been a silly waste of time on the oceans I've played. Obsidian is no different since pirates are rarely hauling any booty worth taking. The only real difference is that we can sink now, but why even waste the time and CBs when we could fight brigands instead? GH envisions the Dark Seas to be a more "dangerous" and "volatile" place, but the ocean is just as static and safe as its always been. I'm honestly unsure how to achieve their design goals, even though they sound awesome. The more I browse these forums, the more I realize how complicated and difficult-to-balance YPP is on the whole. It seems like any change you try to make to this game will totally break other pivotal mechanics. I feel like these forum discussions are super important to hashing out the problems and finding possible solutions. GH has a difficult job for such a small team of devs.
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You cannot swim for new horizons until you have courage to lose sight of the shore.
-- William Faulkner


Dashy | Suspicious Activity | Obsidian Ocean
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by shademan987 at Jul 7, 2017 2:04:15 PM]
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ak62

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I'm not sure if this has been posted or not, so if it has I'm sorry.

I think on the crew/flag fame list there should the Sun/Moon symbol next to their name. Could also be done for Puzzle rankings
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Gunnerfreak

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ak62 wrote: 
I'm not sure if this has been posted or not, so if it has I'm sorry.

I think on the crew/flag fame list there should the Sun/Moon symbol next to their name. Could also be done for Puzzle rankings

Also do this for pirates in a Fray, whether it be Skelly and such or in a Poker table or anything Carousing.
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Gunnerfreak on Cerulean <- Home ocean.
AKA Gunnerfreak on Obsidian (new ocean!), Ice, Emerald, Opal, and Jade,
Gunnerfreak-East on Emerald,
Gunnerfreak-West on Cerulean, and
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Also a Respe-ranked YPPedia-wiki freak.
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Scarpath

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You would make your case better if you didn't post things that show you know almost nothing about shopkeeping. I went and looked at your dock-side offers over the years and they confirm that you have never been a successful shopkeeper. (You had one store in the end of 2014 and a few badly run stores starting in end of 2016.)


Yeaaah, considering my oldest stall was made late 2016, I'm pretty sure they were run badly as I had just about no help and the menus were confusing as crap. I have no memory of a stall in 2014, so I would love to know what you are talking about there...

And considering the main thing I sold were SLOOPS, I wonder how looking at my dockside prices really helped you all that much... Yes, I got my own supplies from bid tickets. That's how I was able to offer my goods so much cheaper. However, it's boring as heck, and when I tried to set up my prices so I didn't have to get my stuff myself, they were too high. When my prices were higher then Admiral, no one bought from me.

So yes, just because I ran my stalls different means I have no shopkeeping skills at all. No, I was just that weirdo who saw an island where they saw no ships and was like "I wanna fix that!" and did it. For a while. But I've packed up my shop, so I guess you can think what you want.
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Scarpath on Emerald, Cerulean, and Meridian!

Also Scarpath on Obsidian, Defiant to the core.

Your grammar should at least be as good as mine, take the time to make it decent!
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xelto

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Xelto is right. Long trade runs, especially with bulky goods is boring.

Those are valid points, but what do we do about the listless PvP? For as long as I remember, engaging other pirates has always been a silly waste of time on the oceans I've played. Obsidian is no different since pirates are rarely hauling any booty worth taking.


If you're doing PvP for money, then either you're going to be disappointed, or this ocean is going to become incredibly expensive for basic items. Because if even basic trading is risky, then you will get "supplies in a war zone" price gouging (because that's exactly what the ocean be).

If you're going to PvP, do it for the fun of it. And if you make a profit, cool.
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Gurndigarn on Emerald Ocean
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wrs1864b

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, but what do we do about the listless PvP? For as long as I remember, engaging other pirates has always been a silly waste of time on the oceans I've played. Obsidian is no different since pirates are rarely hauling any booty worth taking. The only real difference is that we can sink now, but why even waste the time and CBs when we could fight brigands instead?.

Yeah, PvP has a very very long list of problems. Not only do most ships not have enough booty to be worth attacking, but the attackers rarely have any booty making it useless for defenders to do anything other than running away. But, that is just the tip of the problems. Well staffed ships are hard to sink. The bnav "puzzle" has a very limited set of possible moves, most of which can be ruled out as hitting rocks, the sides, or being really dumb moves. Blockades aren't bad because they have different rules. Bnavving against brigands isn't bad because they make dumb moves. Then there are the exploits using alts. And the list goes on.

making all commods be moved by players would solve one problem with PvP, but make other things with PvP worse. Players moving high end commods as the potential to make enough profit to be worth it, but for bulky goods like wood or hemp? Naw. Even if you got the commods for only a few PoE/unit and got the mid to high prices found on normal oceans, the builky commods wouldn't be worth moving if there was significant risk. The price that you get for the commods would have to go up by a factor of 5 or 10, and that would dramatically change the game.

Edit: oh, As usually, Xelto said what I said in less than half the words. *sigh*
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Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by wrs1864b at Jul 7, 2017 4:39:36 PM]
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Shinito

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If GH wants factions and PvP to work they'll need some significant mechanical changes, but given this game's development history I'm very sceptical that it's going to happen.
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Thorkill on Malachite 2.0 Obsidian
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Aethera21

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Not that I'm necessarily in favor of removal of merchant bots, but you could remove them just for the high-end commods, and let them keep delivering the cheap bulky stuff. That means no one needs to run mbrigs of wood or cane, but you would have to run sloops of more high-value stuff. I think it will deter shopkeeping though, and it's not fun to have swords and bludgeons and stuff be hard to make...means people spend more time shopkeeping.

I always did a lot of merch runs when I ran shops, and I like them, but I wasn't PVP'd once in 10 years of trade running, I don't think. I also think a lot of shopkeepers wouldn't account for the risk and loss, and thus, we'd have more poe-losing shops run by people who don't care about that, and they'd continue to undercut the shopkeepers hoping to make a profit.
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Aethera of Cobalt Cerulean
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LJAmethyst

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and that would dramatically change the game.



ISN'T THAT THE WHOLE POINT OF DARK SEAS???
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[Jul 7, 2017 6:25:24 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.newadvent.org/bible/jon001.htm [Link]  Go to top 
wrs1864b

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and that would dramatically change the game.



ISN'T THAT THE WHOLE POINT OF DARK SEAS???

NO

It is trivially easy to change the game. The problem isn't to find a way to change the game, but to change the game in order to make it funner. One way people often try to add "fun" is to make things more complicated, but that often doesn't work out and the added complications just make the game more frustrating. While making a change to a game is trivially easy, finding simple, easy to understand changes that add fun is very very hard. Nerfing and inflating payouts are other ways people try to change games to add fun, but often turn out to make things worse.


Aethera points out a way that *MIGHT* make the game funner by only eliminating merchant bots for non-bulky goods, but maybe that won't make it funner. It somewhat comes down to merchant botx vs bid tickets and they both have advantages and disadvantages. If there are only bid markets for a commod, then anyone anywhere in the ocean can put in bid tickets for the cheap goods, at a cost of having to memorize the ocean and spend a lot of time shipping things. On the other hand, if all of a commod is delivered by merchant bots, then the only way to get that commod "cheaply" is to open a store near the spawns and fight with other people doing the same thing.

In the long run, I think it is somewhat of a wash between merchant bots and bid tickets for high end commods. For example,on Cerulean, 100% of the sassafras is delivered by merchant bots, but for yarrow, 75% of it is done with bid tickets. The results on the game were very similar, back when I was doing lots of trade runs, I'm not sure now. And, yes, I used stores to buy sass and bid tickets to buy yarrow and I would sell to others when the price they offered was worth my time.
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Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent.
[Jul 7, 2017 6:56:41 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
LJAmethyst

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I am not sure if you understand the point behind the suggested changes. Dark Seas revolves around PVP, and PVP is, right now, no fun at all.

What do you think of the changes to shoppe ownership? If a governor can close everything on his island at a whim, where does that place you as a hardcore shoppe keeper?

I don't see what the problem is with "having to spend a lot of time shipping things". Dockside buy offers are there, the "Trading" voyage type is there, mercenary traders should easily be able to break into the game by moving commodities for a profit. Wasn't that the whole point of PCTB and the like, to facilitate profitable trade runs? I think if trading were dangerous and risky, elite pvp bnavers would want to get in on the game of moving commodities. And if "trading" voyages were profitable on par with jobbing for Atlantis or Kraken hunts, especially with valuable commodities in the booty at the end, well then, we wouldn't have a problem attracting people who could puzzle for league upon league and fight tooth and nail in melees so that the investment isn't lost.

Prices schmices, everyone in the game is so rich they can afford lavish mansions and indigo clothes and badges til the cows come home. The Obsidian ocean could use a little price gouging. I think more scarcity would be an order of magnitude more fun than having everything you want all the time. But all the doubloon-price-whiners might disagree there.
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Retired as of August 2015.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by LJAmethyst at Jul 7, 2017 7:24:30 PM]
[Jul 7, 2017 7:22:19 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.newadvent.org/bible/jon001.htm [Link]  Go to top 
Radway



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Re: Obsidian Beta Suggestions Reply to this Post
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I would like to suggest an adjustment to navy routes.


 
In my opinion this is far too short for newbies and even experienced pirates trying to learn new puzzles to get to grips with a puzzle board before it's reset.


Agreed, I have a friend who's just joined PP and was trying to learn some puzzles with the navy and the first thing(s) he complained about are how short the navy routes are and that DRs take too long.
[Jul 7, 2017 7:32:26 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
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