• Play
  • About
  • News
  • Forums
  • Yppedia
  • Help
Welcome Guest   | Login
  Index  | Recent Threads  | Register  | Search  | Help  | RSS feeds  | View Unanswered Threads  
  Search  


Quick Go »
Thread Status: Normal
Total posts in this thread: 612
Posts: 612   Pages: 21   [ First Page | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 | Next Page | Last Page]
[Add To My Favorites] [Watch this Thread] [Post new Thread]
Author
Previous Thread This topic has been viewed 331819 times and has 611 replies Next Thread
SeaGi

Member's Avatar


Joined: Aug 10, 2005
Posts: 79
Status: Offline
Re: On the Horizon: New Ocean, Big Changes! Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Well the catered to have exchanged payment for services provided by OOO/Sega/GH it was equitable for both parties.

Should we also assume that since this is only going to be available on Steam as a third party software that Valve is going to take over the customer and tech support? Will Valve be providing in-game support and the OMs for this ocean? if so, thats a ill omen of times to come.

Unless that's part of the plan some secret diabolical plan.
----------------------------------------
"pride goeth before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall" -Prov 16:18

Jimmyjimjim,
Ex-downpressor of Babylon
Thankfully Retired
----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by SeaGi at Dec 16, 2016 2:26:10 PM]
[Dec 15, 2016 9:44:36 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
farmboy236

Member's Avatar


Joined: Mar 2, 2006
Posts: 1009
Status: Offline
Re: On the Horizon: New Ocean, Big Changes! Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Algol said:

 
All I can say is that this is a HORRIBLE idea and means you fundamentally don't understand the shopkeeping part of the game. Blockades work on a time scale of days or weeks. Shopkeeping works on time scales of months in some case years (commod price swings). An equally bad idea would be something like "only one sword fight can be done until a new blockade". If you only destroy shops, but not stalls, shops will lose almost all value and shopkeepers will simply use stalls. If stalls can be destroyed also, then shopkeepers will go to ringer islands. If ringer islands aren't safe, really bad things will happen. Yeah, there is currently a problem with islands getting paved with shops. Fine, create a stall size larger than Deluxe with shop specs and get rid of stand alone shops. The real problem is that once an island is colonized, it can't be rebuild. You need to dust entire islands, rather than just shops, but again, you need to someone keep home owners and shopkeepers from losing everything when an island is dusted. Shopkeeping has many problems, such as: * It is vastly too easy to self supply labor and vastly too hard to get outside employees. This is related to bots for crafting puzzles. Right now, if you can't do skilled and expert level of puzzling, you have a VERY hard time running a shop. The only time I ever considered writing a bot is because I need expert IM, a puzzle I don't like and I need. * It is vastly too easy to run shops that don't make a profit, but depend on outside sources of income. Increasing rent by a factor of ten would help a lot. Yes, the increased cost of rent would be passed on to customers, but that can be dealt with by a slight increase in other PoE fountains. The important thing is to make it so you have to make a real profit off of items, you can't just kind of get by. Anyway, I've stopped playing, so this doesn't matter to me, but it is sad that you just don't understand parts of the game.


While I have been a perpetrator of building a lot of shoppes, because I can just to try to get people to blockade me, I agree with all of what Algol has said in pertinence to the new ocean.
----------------------------------------
Majorjr on Cerulean
Littlemenjr on Meridian
Major on Emerald

Aristoza greeter chats, "Hello! I'm an Ocean Master, an administrator of this game. Please shut yer trap"
[Dec 15, 2016 9:44:49 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Gorillabuddy

Member's Avatar


Joined: Mar 20, 2011
Posts: 321
Status: Offline
Re: On the Horizon: New Ocean, Big Changes! Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

I don't want to divert the thread too much but to presume that the game creators don't know how their game works and that they haven't thought through potential consequences is ridiculous. There is no reason to think that the only update is shop destruction and that theyre stopping there. It sounds like it is merely one part of a larger group of mechanics. Algol is a smart guy so I would love if he had some constructive criticism or ideas of his own instead of just pooping on the party.
----------------------------------------
Pliskin of Cerulean

Avatar by Cattrin
[Dec 15, 2016 10:12:46 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
ponytailguy

Member's Avatar


Joined: Aug 20, 2005
Posts: 8963
Status: Offline
Re: On the Horizon: New Ocean, Big Changes! Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
 
Shops can be demolished as part of the island takeover process, encouraging a robust turnover of managers and territory.

All I can say is that this is a HORRIBLE idea and means you fundamentally don't understand the shopkeeping part of the game.

Blockades work on a time scale of days or weeks. Shopkeeping works on time scales of months in some case years (commod price swings). An equally bad idea would be something like "only one sword fight can be done until a new blockade". If you only destroy shops, but not stalls, shops will lose almost all value and shopkeepers will simply use stalls. If stalls can be destroyed also, then shopkeepers will go to ringer islands. If ringer islands aren't safe, really bad things will happen.

Yeah, there is currently a problem with islands getting paved with shops. Fine, create a stall size larger than Deluxe with shop specs and get rid of stand alone shops. The real problem is that once an island is colonized, it can't be rebuild. You need to dust entire islands, rather than just shops, but again, you need to someone keep home owners and shopkeepers from losing everything when an island is dusted.

Shopkeeping has many problems, such as:

* It is vastly too easy to self supply labor and vastly too hard to get outside employees. This is related to bots for crafting puzzles. Right now, if you can't do skilled and expert level of puzzling, you have a VERY hard time running a shop. The only time I ever considered writing a bot is because I need expert IM, a puzzle I don't like and I need.

* It is vastly too easy to run shops that don't make a profit, but depend on outside sources of income. Increasing rent by a factor of ten would help a lot. Yes, the increased cost of rent would be passed on to customers, but that can be dealt with by a slight increase in other PoE fountains. The important thing is to make it so you have to make a real profit off of items, you can't just kind of get by.

Anyway, I've stopped playing, so this doesn't matter to me, but it is sad that you just don't understand parts of the game.
...okay, but what if the version of shoppekeeping you're playing (or, indeed, not playing) is unmoored from the vision for shoppekeeping the developers are pushing out?

Yes, this shifts the equation and makes it riskier to own shoppes, but that's fun. That gives a much stronger incentive to blockade islands, and to stave off attackers. This also presumably implies that shoppes will have much stronger relationships with the crews, flags and governors who run their respective islands, which (a) means that these crews, flags and governors now have something other than prestige at stake when it comes to an island's economy, and (b) implies that shoppekeepers will now be pressured to take sides and commit to politics in a way they've pretty much ignored for the last decade. Both of these changes will be interesting.

They'll also be disruptive. Absolutely. But disruption is what makes room for new players, disruption is what drives ocean-level intrigues and politics, and disruption is what makes the game itself worth playing. If it just becomes Yohoho: Old Crews Sitting On Shoppes They've Held Since Alpha, we end up right here where we already are, in a death spiral until the server shuts down.

And you're discounting the possibility that this new light/dark system will goose the economy in other ways. One top-of-mind possibility: what if the respective faction "base camps" are at a considerable distance from the neutral islands at the ocean's centre, and each of them pay a considerable premium in exchange for commodities and finished goods? (Like, the factions themselves want to buy ships and paints and beverages and other products from visiting players.) All of a sudden, owning a risky shoppe out in the middle of nowhere can be a big PoE-turner, because people need to ship goods a considerably shorter distance to you, and you can funnel them right back into headquarters for a big payout. Suddenly it's not a stupid risk (or a worthless deed to a shoppe on an island with population 15), it's a strategic gamble which could pay off handsomely.

As to the other changes: yes, yes, yes, absolutely, yes, completely, totally, yes, yes, yes.
----------------------------------------
The Ghost of Oceans Past
----------------------------------------
[Edit 5 times, last edit by ponytailguy at Dec 15, 2016 10:33:53 PM]
[Dec 15, 2016 10:25:46 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
adelaidean12

Member's Avatar


Joined: Aug 18, 2012
Posts: 74
Status: Offline
Re: On the Horizon: New Ocean, Big Changes! Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
 
Will there be a one week buffer period where certain pirate names were protected, akin to ocean releases of the past?

I really don't fancy someone else doing a better job of being a John Thomas with my pirate name.

Double post to +1 this


Agreed, this is a great idea.

More broadly Puzzle Pirates: Obsidian sounds very interesting and intriguing and I look forward to future developments and information about it. :)
----------------------------------------
Adelaidean
Emerald Ocean
Obsidian Ocean
Avatar by Seapint
[Dec 16, 2016 12:40:15 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
mari_

Member's Avatar


Joined: May 18, 2005
Posts: 2484
Status: Offline
Re: On the Horizon: New Ocean, Big Changes! Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

I think this is an idea long overdue, about time there was a new ocean/new start.

With the shop destruction, can you make it so SY stalls produce larger ships please?

Another note on shops and merchanting - I see people complaining about it ruining it. You need to view this as a new game, not what wouldn't work on a current ocean, this is the opportunity for more stalls to be opened and used. I would just like to see a larger throughput of hours in stalls please.

Around pvp - I am of the view pressing sail on a ship is you already accepting pvp, however like Pauldancer said could we have a seperate tab on the NB for people jobbing for PVP specifically so jobbers know what they are joining.

Are blockades going to be a weekly occurrence still, or are there plans to make them less often with shop destruction going hand in hand with it?

Are you going to open this up plenty early for testing?
----------------------------------------
Calamarie - now also in Obsidian flavour!
Dignity - Emerald

"Always remember... Rumours are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots."

The Shadow is in my very core ;)
[Dec 16, 2016 12:42:01 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Foilistc

Member's Avatar


Joined: Mar 15, 2005
Posts: 1637
Status: Offline
Re: On the Horizon: New Ocean, Big Changes! Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

I like the disruptive changes here. This sounds like a really fun ocean, though I wish that it was available for subscription, though I know that's not how you make the majority of the money from the game.

Still, I like this a lot.
----------------------------------------
I'm old. I don't look it but I'm beginning to feel it in my heart...
[Dec 16, 2016 12:45:42 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.carlknoch.com [Link]  Go to top 
Vengfulsoul

Member's Avatar


Joined: May 6, 2007
Posts: 59
Status: Offline
Re: On the Horizon: New Ocean, Big Changes! Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

This is honestly amazing news. A great step in the right direction. I love this and will be returning to play it. Puzzle Pirates is a unique experience and being able to go back, and have this new ocean which looks a lot of work and thinking has gone into will be fantastic. My only fear is that not enough old/new players will notice the new ocean and it will wither. Ill do what I can to bring old friends back into the game for it. Hopefully the steam advertisements will be enough.
----------------------------------------
Vengiesoul- Meridian
SO of Schrödinger's cat
Professional Wigsas photographer
[Dec 16, 2016 1:51:03 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
jnb12

Member's Avatar


Joined: Aug 8, 2005
Posts: 106
Status: Offline
Re: On the Horizon: New Ocean, Big Changes! Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

This is bringing the old me back. I feel as if this is a change of Puzzle Pirates I want to be apart of again. I'll be giving it a shot and returning. Nice job Devs, you have my attention.
----------------------------------------
Because gunning is the only station on a boat.

Forever a Cobaltian.
Hamilton.
[Dec 16, 2016 2:38:23 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
wrs1864b

Member's Avatar


Joined: Apr 10, 2006
Posts: 6337
Status: Offline
Re: On the Horizon: New Ocean, Big Changes! Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Pliskin wrote: 
to presume that the game creators don't know how their game works and that they haven't thought through potential consequences is ridiculous.

Before OOO released PPX, I would completely agree with this. When PPX firxt came out, I said "First, any change takes getting used to. Give it a couple of weeks." and it was only after playing with it a lot and giving it several weeks that I understood just how bad it was. OOO seemed to have made a check list of features of the current YPP and made sure PPX could, in some form, do them, but they implemented the features in ways that showed they really didn't understand the game. Sure, all the features were still there, but too many in ways that were badly broken.

Now, if the announcement had been "we are going to vastly rework the economy", that would be one thing, but all the announcement said was that "Shops can be demolished as part of the island takeover process, encouraging a robust turnover of managers and territory."

ponytailguy wrote: 
Yes, this shifts the equation and makes it riskier to own shoppes, but that's fun. That gives a much stronger incentive to blockade islands, and to stave off attackers. This also presumably implies that shoppes will have much stronger relationships with the crews, flags and governors who run their respective islands,

One of the things that OOO got right early on, and ringers used to regularly say, is that you can't force people into doing stuff they don't think is fun.

Blockad players, on the other hand, have long had the attitude that they think that shopkeepers should be forced to play the blockade game. (While, blockaders shouldn't be forced to play the economic game, go figure.)

No.

Destroying shops is bad, at least not without a HUGE amount of other changes and development effort that I can't see OOO/GH having the resources to do.

Again, if you make shops riskier, shopkeepers will just switch to stalls. If you make shops and stalls risker, they will just move to ringer isands. If you make ringer islands risker, they will just stop playing for the most part.

Oh, and just a reminder, blockading is cheap and blockading doesn't risk that much. When I last played, I had north of 50M in my shops/stalls.

*shrug* I pretty much stopped playing a year ago, I'm not coming back.
----------------------------------------
Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent.
[Dec 16, 2016 3:04:59 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
smexi4u

Member's Avatar


Joined: Sep 19, 2008
Posts: 160
Status: Offline
Re: On the Horizon: New Ocean, Big Changes! Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Well I'm sold, See ya there!
----------------------------------------
Zadkiel on Obsidian,
SO of Polaris.


Avatar by darkfairy
[Dec 16, 2016 3:05:52 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
s_shutters



Joined: Feb 12, 2006
Posts: 73
Status: Offline

Re: On the Horizon: New Ocean, Big Changes! Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Sorry. A trophy is not enough.

I'm not keen on completely starting over. I did that on Malachite and it was NOT fun. I only came back after years once I heard the ocean had been merged with my old ocean Viridian.

Now this new release seems intentionally designed to kill off Meridian.

Great for newer players who have nothing to lose. Devastating to those who have invested a lot of time and money in this game just to see all their work wiped out.

A slap in the face to those who helped get the game off the ground really.
----------------------------------------
Steven on Meridian
[Dec 16, 2016 3:27:48 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
xelto

Member's Avatar


Joined: Mar 18, 2007
Posts: 5711
Status: Offline
Re: On the Horizon: New Ocean, Big Changes! Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
Pliskin wrote: 
to presume that the game creators don't know how their game works and that they haven't thought through potential consequences is ridiculous.

Before OOO released PPX, I would completely agree with this. When PPX firxt came out, I said "First, any change takes getting used to. Give it a couple of weeks." and it was only after playing with it a lot and giving it several weeks that I understood just how bad it was. OOO seemed to have made a check list of features of the current YPP and made sure PPX could, in some form, do them, but they implemented the features in ways that showed they really didn't understand the game. Sure, all the features were still there, but too many in ways that were badly broken.

Now, if the announcement had been "we are going to vastly rework the economy", that would be one thing, but all the announcement said was that "Shops can be demolished as part of the island takeover process, encouraging a robust turnover of managers and territory."

ponytailguy wrote: 
Yes, this shifts the equation and makes it riskier to own shoppes, but that's fun. That gives a much stronger incentive to blockade islands, and to stave off attackers. This also presumably implies that shoppes will have much stronger relationships with the crews, flags and governors who run their respective islands,

One of the things that OOO got right early on, and ringers used to regularly say, is that you can't force people into doing stuff they don't think is fun.

Blockad players, on the other hand, have long had the attitude that they think that shopkeepers should be forced to play the blockade game. (While, blockaders shouldn't be forced to play the economic game, go figure.)

No.

Destroying shops is bad, at least not without a HUGE amount of other changes and development effort that I can't see OOO/GH having the resources to do.

I mostly agree with this; it was one of the things that I was trying to work though before bringing it up, making sure I was't going to knee-jerk react.

However, one of the goals of this ocean, as near as I can tell, is to appeal to the crowd that prefers head-to-head confrontation. Most of these people will play a game for some months before moving on to the next one. They're not expecting people in it for the very long term; people like that should be hinted towards the regular oceans.

It is possible to have shopkeeping work in these setups, even if it's more on a catch-as-catch-can basis, rather than a long-term grand strategy. However, if they're going to try this, there are some things that GH needs to consider, before they go live:

  • Setting up a new shop is a pain. Some way to make that easier would be nice.
  • It takes a few days to collect even basic commodities. If taking over an island can mean dusting every shoppe on it, then you risk not having enough stability to have some items made in any real quantity. If it's bad enough, you're even risking not having enough basic commodities to go around.
  • Right now, repeatedly attacking someone who's sailing is considered griefing. Having seen my son stay up for that 2 AM Minecraft raid-defense against an enemy that never showed up... please consider some way to allow players to have regular sleep schedules while still defending their possessions. With the regular ocean blockade rules, you can ignore the team that attacks you during your sleep, knowing that next week you can counter-attack them during their sleep. But if the shoppes get dusted during that week, that's less viable.

On the plus side, merchanting can become immensely profitable for people planning long-term, trying to fill needs of new shoppes, if you can figure out how to deal with the forced PvP aspect of the game.
----------------------------------------
Gurndigarn on Emerald Ocean
"Oh, come on. You jobbed onto a ship called the Cursed Isle Raider and you expected *refined*?"
----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by xelto at Dec 16, 2016 3:44:31 AM]
[Dec 16, 2016 3:33:58 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
mari_

Member's Avatar


Joined: May 18, 2005
Posts: 2484
Status: Offline
Re: On the Horizon: New Ocean, Big Changes! Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Referencing shop destruction:

If the attackers win the island, is there a set number to how many shoppes they can destroy? (Like the current limit of dropping 2 per week new ones)

Will there still be a limit of new shoppes being dropped per week?


Will there be an option to take over the shoppe deed rather than destroying it (a little how outposts work now) in cases where its a shop type that is desired?


---------------------------------------------

Moving on to some other thoughts:

Merchants should have a vested interest in who owns their islands, maybe things wont be automatically the 100% taxes we see on most colonised islands across all oceans.

Is the blockade format planned to be the same as the current one - weekends only, set window for them to happen?

Will flags automatically be aligned to all other flags on "their side", thus making alliances defunct? And will you only be able to attack the other side? Or can you attack within your own side?


I am personally trying to view this as a new game, which I believe is what GH want it to be, rather than just a new ocean. It's using the same basic concepts but building a completely different game out of it.
----------------------------------------
Calamarie - now also in Obsidian flavour!
Dignity - Emerald

"Always remember... Rumours are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots."

The Shadow is in my very core ;)
[Dec 16, 2016 4:10:45 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Gunnerfreak

Member's Avatar


Joined: Jun 12, 2011
Posts: 436
Status: Offline
Re: On the Horizon: New Ocean, Big Changes! Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
I have a boner for everything about this EXCEPT that it's a dub ocean.

Sad face :(

But like... a sad boner.

Aye...... I don't like that it's a dub ocean, either. :(
----------------------------------------
Gunnerfreak on Cerulean <- Home ocean.
AKA Gunnerfreak on Obsidian (new ocean!), Ice, Emerald, Opal, and Jade,
Gunnerfreak-East on Emerald,
Gunnerfreak-West on Cerulean, and
Gunnergunner on Meridian.
Also a Respe-ranked YPPedia-wiki freak.
[Dec 16, 2016 4:35:57 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Gunnerfreak

Member's Avatar


Joined: Jun 12, 2011
Posts: 436
Status: Offline
Re: On the Horizon: New Ocean, Big Changes! Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

I have a question that no one has seemed to ask. Will there be alpha/beta testing or something of the like that us pirates can assist with?
----------------------------------------
Gunnerfreak on Cerulean <- Home ocean.
AKA Gunnerfreak on Obsidian (new ocean!), Ice, Emerald, Opal, and Jade,
Gunnerfreak-East on Emerald,
Gunnerfreak-West on Cerulean, and
Gunnergunner on Meridian.
Also a Respe-ranked YPPedia-wiki freak.
[Dec 16, 2016 4:50:04 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Dagnanlian69

Member's Avatar


Joined: Apr 11, 2009
Posts: 270
Status: Offline
Re: On the Horizon: New Ocean, Big Changes! Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Yo Forc, Since we are nerfing poker for the new ocean, are we also nerfing Competitions/Tournaments/Wagers.. because even on the current oceans these generate way more wealth on individuals than poker does, so it seems a little unfair to only hit poker players with significant changes.
----------------------------------------
Dagnanlian
[Dec 16, 2016 5:04:55 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
wippit

Member's Avatar


Joined: Jan 30, 2006
Posts: 695
Status: Offline
Re: On the Horizon: New Ocean, Big Changes! Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Welcome to Puzzle Pirates: EVE.
[Dec 16, 2016 5:28:56 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Thunderbird

Member's Avatar


Joined: Sep 4, 2003
Posts: 5777
Status: Online
Re: On the Horizon: New Ocean, Big Changes! Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Question for the auto PvP aspect: Does this include for situations that would merit the black ship on normal oceans?

 
Welcome to Puzzle Pirates: EVE.


EVE allows anything that isn't actually subverting game mechanics, this includes scamming, espionage and stealing. I can't see that flying here.
----------------------------------------
Pirate tells you, "my, that's one BIG wad o' chewing gum ye have mounted on yer bonce! oO'"
Sungod officer chats, "I wonder if anyone's sailing the harpsichord"
Pirate tells you, "ZOMG CANDYFLOSS!!! *munches*"
[Dec 16, 2016 6:26:53 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Talisker

Member's Avatar


Joined: Jul 24, 2003
Posts: 11261
Status: Offline
Re: On the Horizon: New Ocean, Big Changes! Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
As to the other changes: yes, yes, yes, absolutely, yes, completely, totally, yes, yes, yes.


Agree with PTG. This is interesting.

For Forculus:

Is this the long rumored Spanking Ocean?
----------------------------------------
Leif
The Forums
Gunnermooch wrote: 
I can't respond because I do not understand what the hell you are talking about. Sorry.

Av by Ecastasy
[Dec 16, 2016 6:45:29 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Tejb5

Member's Avatar


Joined: Mar 27, 2010
Posts: 69
Status: Offline
Re: On the Horizon: New Ocean, Big Changes! Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Another question, I may have missed this in the thread though :p. While I understand the need for poker buy ins going down, will there be a chance of all wagers going down? If wagers are kept the same as they are now and only poker is nerfed, I can see swordfighters in particular taking over the ocean. If people like aiplaeso, remorse or silverdawg are able to have that much of an income again on an ocean that can't be sustained by poker, I DEFINITELY see it being a bad impact.
----------------------------------------
-Shigby
----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by Tejb5 at Dec 16, 2016 6:51:10 AM]
[Dec 16, 2016 6:50:27 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Ryanford350

Member's Avatar


Joined: Jan 23, 2008
Posts: 95
Status: Offline
Re: On the Horizon: New Ocean, Big Changes! Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

[quote]We're excited to announce some big plans that we've been working on for Puzzle Pirates later in 2017. We are going to be adding a new Ocean as part of a release that we're calling...



Forculus & Team,

Congrats and kudos and being flat out BRAVE in your stewardship of this piece of a game we've known and loved for so long

Congrats and kudos for taking it to the next natural step (a new, exciting 'level playing field' ocean that does away with the imbalances that have inevitably crept into and hurt it over time.

and Kudos, for also doing it smartly- ie using the new ocean launch as an opportunity to fix some of the serious ills that undermined the platform with the oceans new mechanics.

There's only one area that I think you may have stopped short- that being taking an equally 'brave' stance for what will soon be the Legacy Dub Oceans.

There is no doubt in my mind that that one of the most difficult aspects of the impassioned dialog that the team worked through about how this new chapter in YPP should be, centers around how to best treat those of us in the dub oceans that have invested so much time, energy and loyalty over 10+ yrs. We have after all been the ones that have kept it going all this time and as the old adage goes, "Never, ever alienate your core customer base".

Contrary to much of the sentiment espoused so far in this thread by others feeling put out and slighted, the fact of the matter is, GH's does struggle like a parent wanting to do right to its 'kids'. And with that much gravity weighing on the strategic decision making process, it is clear after much deliberation, when the dust settled, the decision was to keep the legacy dub oceans intact, almost in homage to those who have so much of their piratey careers invested in.

I am, ofc, one of them

So from that vantage point and in that context, I am going to say- while that gesture was well intentioned and out of love, it is not the way to go. Creating a new modified, dub based ocean and not making the last, most difficult decision to retire it's legacy counterparts, with all due respect only sets the stage for an non-graceful, ugly demise of the old. Sure, you could take the view that we'll just let it plod on until active players drop below a critical mass and then later announce the retirement of the legacy oceans once the new ocean has gained some traction- BUT the fact is we've already recently hit that critical mass threshold, haven't we. As counter-intuitive as it may seem to many, the most compassionate, respectful move here, is not to let it wither slowly away, but to take the last brave decision and have a firm cut over date- honoring our legacy by turning off the existing dub servers in a dignified way and turning on the lights of a fresh, exciting ocean where everyone can again experience how freaking FUN it is to play on an ocean the way it was back in '05.

Again, from one of those who by all accounts has the most to lose, this is how it should be done. Now, if you decide to let us Old Salt's take a single loved item with us to the New Frontier (Oceana Nuevo) whether it be a fam, ship, trinket or whatev...

PoE certainly wouldn't have a problem with that !
----------------------------------------
PoE

Don't waste your time
Or time will waste you

================
Avatar by BanditBetty
[Dec 16, 2016 8:04:07 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
HuskyTed

Member's Avatar


Joined: Jul 29, 2003
Posts: 2267
Status: Offline
Re: On the Horizon: New Ocean, Big Changes! Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
...and means you fundamentally don't understand the shopkeeping part of the game.


LOL

Solid brass balls, my dude. You're completely wrong but bravo on your chutzpah.
----------------------------------------
Llama's like candy coated bunny holding a daisy and a puppy in one hand and a kitten in the other nice -Misery
avatar by Libelle / Kolibri

[Dec 16, 2016 8:08:06 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://bobthewonderllama.8m.com    bobthewonderllama    HuskyTed    2722224 [Link]  Go to top 
ak62

Member's Avatar


Joined: Jul 22, 2012
Posts: 116
Status: Offline
Re: On the Horizon: New Ocean, Big Changes! Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
Oh, and just a reminder, blockading is cheap and blockading doesn't risk that much. When I last played, I had north of 50M in my shops/stalls.


Many of flags have spent over 50m in a single weekend, while you have probably built up that 50m over years and years and years of shop running. Would not really call blockading cheap
----------------------------------------
Camouflages - Meridian/Emerald

Avatar by Doulber
[Dec 16, 2016 8:17:57 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
mari_

Member's Avatar


Joined: May 18, 2005
Posts: 2484
Status: Offline
Re: On the Horizon: New Ocean, Big Changes! Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
 
Oh, and just a reminder, blockading is cheap and blockading doesn't risk that much. When I last played, I had north of 50M in my shops/stalls.


Many of flags have spent over 50m in a single weekend, while you have probably built up that 50m over years and years and years of shop running. Would not really call blockading cheap


Camo is right, Algol what you say might be pretty much a good sum up of Cerulean, low jobbing numbers, low ship risk, therefore less poe spent/rum & balls used, however transpose that across to Emerald where you will see flags spending that 50m in a weekend regularly, plus ship sinks/rum & balls used and it comes down to blockades are not cheap.


_____________

What I don't see here is people seeing this as a different game, this isn't another ocean opening, its a totally NEW concept using some of the original. Anyone not wanting to try something new doesn't have to, I haven't seen GH say anywhere in this thread they are closing YPP down, and in-fact have said they are continuing to support it. Players have been saying for years there needs to be a YPP 2, not another ocean merger, or closures - looks to me like they listened to their audience, and now they need to find a way of making some money with a new game.
----------------------------------------
Calamarie - now also in Obsidian flavour!
Dignity - Emerald

"Always remember... Rumours are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots."

The Shadow is in my very core ;)
[Dec 16, 2016 8:34:09 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Anglico



Joined: Dec 9, 2016
Posts: 1
Status: Offline

Re: On the Horizon: New Ocean, Big Changes! Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Not sure if this have already been brought up yet but
- Notice board displaying random tutorials about the game from yppedia to help new players learn portions of the game or old dogs learn new tricks like say - How to get lavish lockers from greedies effectively.
- Makes a bit of sense for your Light/Dark affiliation to be crew/flag based instead of individually based to make it easier to have Light vs dark pvps, blockades etc instead of having a flag with mixed faction-ed individuals battling another flag with mixed individuals.
- Some sort of monthly Civil war kind of blockade between Light and Dark with rewards that would make it worth our while.
- Instead of having different routes spawning different difficulty based on your difficulty settings, could it be that All areas in the enemy territories spawn "Very hard" brigand and barbarians with high payouts. (SMHs and expos spawned in the enemy territory of the crew running it dropping increased payouts)
- Automatic sinking pvps between crews of opposing factions and non sinking for crews with similiar factions.
- Neutral portions of the game for players that do not wish to get harassed by pvps
- Brigand Kings patrolling routes around the island they are controlling and increased pay outs for BK battles.
- Incorporate some kind of story line/quest mode that can either be accomplished individually or as a team with the light vs dark.
- Brigand kings, merchant expos, IOs, Vikings, TH and Forage expos dropping lavish lockers to encourage bnavers to do them.
- (Controversial) Have a minimum Battle Navigation stat requirement to be able to run a pillage to coerce more people to learn in the navy first before jumping out to sea and getting destroyed in the pvps
- Some restriction in place for the pvps to prevent ultimate bnavers from unfairly hunting out say, distinguished bnavers
- Flotillas reworked to drop trophies and chests during the treasure hauls.
- SMHs only dropping exclusive furnitures and clothing colors to force people to go back to shoppoes to buy items instead of relying on smhs and slightly increase the economy.
- A ship that holds 30 - 45 people but shoots double large cannon balls.
- A smaller version of the sloop - "Raft" that can be manned by just 4 or less people for those that enjoy solo-ing ships
Please don't be discouraged by some of the negative feedback seen on the thread as a lot of people will always be opposed to change regardless of whether its good change or bad change. Those of us that like the proposed ideas will play on the new ocean and those that don't can stick to the older oceans. As for storylines, i am known for my overactive imagination and a lot of storylines and have a few story lines written up somewhere and can probably conjure up a few more if its a direction you're willing to go.
----------------------------------------
[Edit 4 times, last edit by Anglico at Dec 16, 2016 9:29:42 AM]
[Dec 16, 2016 8:46:42 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Preciousjewl

Member's Avatar


Joined: Jul 1, 2010
Posts: 109
Status: Offline
Re: On the Horizon: New Ocean, Big Changes! Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

New Ocean idea - LOVE
LOVE this new ocean idea.

Not allowing kids who did something stupid 7 years ago to have a fresh start = Poor, poor, poor, poor, poor business and game decision (imho).
Despair at the lack of allowing banned players fresh starts. lol
Especially the ones who who banned 7 (6,5,4) years ago and have been banned again for ban evading only (not for another crime) - now there is a pool of players who are desperate to play this game.

(Yes, I know this is boring JFMAA but I loved the drama, politics and pvping associated with some of these larger than life banned people - and PP - for me - is all about the people - I can play puzzles anywhere. Bailet let me know if they allow Slim back. I wold come back to pvp him anytime ;) Imagine the excitment and the drama of having the old rivalries back. )

Re smh one at a time - nice idea.
I remember the days of SMH PVPs - they were compelling and EXCITING.
(Although I will never in this life or the next, go on another HS - so so so so so boring for a sailing/carping jobber)

So in summary - LOVE THE IDEA but only if you can get enough people to log on AT THE BEGINNING - You only get a small window to make an impression.

I wish you the best of luck with this .

cheers
PJ
----------------------------------------
Awesome Avatar by the Awesome Gamerfrk - Thanx Gamer :):):):)
[Dec 16, 2016 8:58:51 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
SeaGi

Member's Avatar


Joined: Aug 10, 2005
Posts: 79
Status: Offline
Re: On the Horizon: New Ocean, Big Changes! Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
Another question, I may have missed this in the thread though :p. While I understand the need for poker buy ins going down, will there be a chance of all wagers going down? If wagers are kept the same as they are now and only poker is nerfed, I can see swordfighters in particular taking over the ocean. If people like aiplaeso, remorse or silverdawg are able to have that much of an income again on an ocean that can't be sustained by poker, I DEFINITELY see it being a bad impact.


There's several variations of Texas hold'em. Get rid of no-limit. Fixed bidding and raises, 10/20 blinds, and pot limited betting should keep people playing poker for fun rather than encouraging anyone to try to make millions. This will keep the pot sizes small and will allow the poker players to still play the game if they find it that fun. My guess is the lazy will be to lazy to play once the incentive is gone.
----------------------------------------
"pride goeth before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall" -Prov 16:18

Jimmyjimjim,
Ex-downpressor of Babylon
Thankfully Retired
[Dec 16, 2016 9:51:29 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
majestrate

Member's Avatar


Joined: Feb 18, 2005
Posts: 3963
Status: Offline
Re: On the Horizon: New Ocean, Big Changes! Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

I'd like to throw praise to everyone involved in putting this new ocean together. Definitely cool to see some of the more "controversial" ideas posted in GD given a path to release.

Four questions:

1. If Inns exist on this new ocean, will the deeds be recoverable by the flag that wins the island in a blockade (or can the existing Inn be demolished and a new one built in its place; something like "you can't demolish the existing Inn until you have the necessary commods to build a new one")?

2. I understand the hesitation to release some of these ideas on the traditional oceans, but if they pan out as intended, what are the chances that they'll be adopted on the traditional oceans (I'm looking specifically at shoppe dusting). I know you mentioned posting it in GD as a separate thread but those discussions don't really give an accurate idea as to whether the idea is good or bad because the number of people that voice their opinions is small.

3. Is there a time limit to dusting shoppes or is it open-ended?

4. When it's time to alpha/beta the ocean, will it be open to any/all or will it be invite only until "open beta" hits? Or not close enough to really discuss that yet?
----------------------------------------
#TeamEvil
Marto wrote: 
We can't rely on majestrate he yells at people


Avatar by the gracious and wonderful Phaerie <3
[Dec 16, 2016 10:43:09 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    first_majestrate    majestrait [Link]  Go to top 
Gunnerfreak

Member's Avatar


Joined: Jun 12, 2011
Posts: 436
Status: Offline
Re: On the Horizon: New Ocean, Big Changes! Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 


4. When it's time to alpha/beta the ocean, will it be open to any/all or will it be invite only until "open beta" hits? Or not close enough to really discuss that yet?


I pretty much already asked that question, mate, lol.
----------------------------------------
Gunnerfreak on Cerulean <- Home ocean.
AKA Gunnerfreak on Obsidian (new ocean!), Ice, Emerald, Opal, and Jade,
Gunnerfreak-East on Emerald,
Gunnerfreak-West on Cerulean, and
Gunnergunner on Meridian.
Also a Respe-ranked YPPedia-wiki freak.
[Dec 16, 2016 10:59:08 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Posts: 612   Pages: 21   [ First Page | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 | Next Page | Last Page]
[Show Printable Version of Thread] [Post new Thread]

Puzzle Pirates™ © 2001-2020 Grey Havens, LLC All Rights Reserved.   Terms · Privacy · Affiliates