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DeathStab



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Re: The Campaign for Ocean Dusting Reply to this Post
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I played from 2005 to the beginning of 2007. Some of the most fun I had during that period was when Hunter ocean was released. Everything felt so fresh, everything was still unexplored, so many people streamed to the new ocean.

Pillaging only with foils was surprisingly fun! And slowly, the economy started building up, until after a few days the first (very expensive) skull daggers could be bought. And the economy was booming, I got my first stall and was able to make solid profits out of it (in contrast, even back then, it was hard for a newcomer to run a stall and make profits in Viridian).

A full wipe and a fresh new start with a new ocean would get me back to the game.
[May 15, 2016 2:37:39 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
marundel

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The problem with this whole idea is that it would require continuous ocean wipes and restarts every few years to retain that "fresh" feeling... and with each wipe and restart, all accrued achievements disappear. IMO, you would wind up with no old or experienced players by the second wipe, and the vendor would have to rely on a continuing supply of gullible newbies who don't know that in three or four years all their stuff will get washed away.

 
I played from 2005 to the beginning of 2007. Some of the most fun I had during that period was when Hunter ocean was released. Everything felt so fresh, everything was still unexplored, so many people streamed to the new ocean.

Pillaging only with foils was surprisingly fun! And slowly, the economy started building up, until after a few days the first (very expensive) skull daggers could be bought. And the economy was booming, I got my first stall and was able to make solid profits out of it (in contrast, even back then, it was hard for a newcomer to run a stall and make profits in Viridian).

A full wipe and a fresh new start with a new ocean would get me back to the game.

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Pizzahutpete on the Cerulean Ocean
Prince, Super Awesomeness
SO, Boochin' Drunks

Pizzahutpete everywhere, thanks to the merge
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ponytailguy

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The problem with this whole idea is that it would require continuous ocean wipes and restarts every few years to retain that "fresh" feeling... and with each wipe and restart, all accrued achievements disappear. IMO, you would wind up with no old or experienced players by the second wipe, and the vendor would have to rely on a continuing supply of gullible newbies who don't know that in three or four years all their stuff will get washed away.
I'm not sure that's true. If "we're gonna be wiping everything in 5-7 years" is baked into the game from the beginning, people would play with it in mind.

And things do endure: you'd still have your hearties, crews and flags would probably endure wipes, as would the basic political dynamic this implies. The notion that everyone comes into this in a totally blind state, fumbling around for the lightswitches, alone in the universe... I'm not sure where people are getting that from.
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The Ghost of Oceans Past
[May 18, 2016 10:25:18 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
xelto

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And things do endure: you'd still have your hearties


Many of my hearties wouldn't return if they had to start over. I doubt I would, either. Right now, it's a couple shops I run that keep me around any significant time at all.

Something important to keep in mind. The people who want a "fresh, new ocean" are the ones who care about politics in the ocean. They are the minority. For most people, which flag is currently ruling doesn't make any difference to them. It doesn't affect them.

Even experienced players, unless they are active in politics, don't give a damn. I really don't care who rules which island. They have no bearing on what I do, beyond what tax rate gets set for my shops... and any more, everyone just sets it to 100%, so even that's no longer anything I care about.
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Gurndigarn on Emerald Ocean
"Oh, come on. You jobbed onto a ship called the Cursed Isle Raider and you expected *refined*?"
[May 18, 2016 1:14:17 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
jlh0605

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Even experienced players, unless they are active in politics, don't give a damn. I really don't care who rules which island. They have no bearing on what I do, beyond what tax rate gets set for my shops... and any more, everyone just sets it to 100%, so even that's no longer anything I care about.
I am pretty sure I qualify as an "experienced player" .. and I agree 100%.
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[May 18, 2016 7:02:22 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    Hidden to Guest [Link]  Go to top 
ponytailguy

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Even experienced players, unless they are active in politics, don't give a damn. I really don't care who rules which island. They have no bearing on what I do, beyond what tax rate gets set for my shops... and any more, everyone just sets it to 100%, so even that's no longer anything I care about.
What you're describing doesn't actually sound like a game to me, let alone an MMO. "Just leave me alone and let me sit in my shoppe, doing literally nothing else."
 
Something important to keep in mind. The people who want a "fresh, new ocean" are the ones who care about politics in the ocean. They are the minority. For most people, which flag is currently ruling doesn't make any difference to them. It doesn't affect them.
That's not true.

The crux of what I'm arguing here is that the ocean is too big. Way, way, way too big. We currently have an ocean twice the size of anything we've seen before, with as many players as Azure, and game systems which presume a level of activity game hasn't seen since Viridian in 2007ish. It feels empty and listless, because it is empty and listless: there are too many colonized islands, too many shoppes, too many ships, and too little activity and too few players to keep it going.

You can spend an entire weekday evening checking the notice board and only find one or two pillages suitable for new players. Everyone else is on high-end KB hunts, or chasing red brigands, or pillaging on hearty terms (not on the list? no job for you), or huddling in their shoppes twiddling their numbers and not otherwise engaging with any other part of the game.

The way you yourself describe the game, it doesn't sound like you value or enjoy it any more: you're here because of inertia, and because you like the idea of the game, but it doesn't seem like you actually take any enjoyment from it. And if all you have left is, as you put it, politics you don't care about, hearties you would leave behind, a listless economy which has no life to it... the fact that you'd still choose that over the chance of an ocean and a game where things actually happen (or at least have a chance of happening) is disappointing.
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The Ghost of Oceans Past
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[Edit 3 times, last edit by ponytailguy at May 19, 2016 3:53:05 PM]
[May 19, 2016 3:39:37 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
majestrate

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You're sounding a lot like the initial formation of Fandango. "I think you're not having fun playing the game, I'm going to help make it fun for you, you'll see.".
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[May 19, 2016 3:44:35 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    first_majestrate    majestrait [Link]  Go to top 
ponytailguy

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You're sounding a lot like the initial formation of Fandango. "I think you're not having fun playing the game, I'm going to help make it fun for you, you'll see.".
It's true, I have no stomach whatsoever for "This is my shoppe, it is mine because of inertia, I do nothing with it, nothing in the game matters, and you'll pry it from my cold, dead hands."

I also got my start with Stuyvesant and BNB, so using "Fandango" as a slur may not be the best tactic.
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The Ghost of Oceans Past
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by ponytailguy at May 19, 2016 3:53:55 PM]
[May 19, 2016 3:49:49 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
xelto

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Even experienced players, unless they are active in politics, don't give a damn. I really don't care who rules which island. They have no bearing on what I do, beyond what tax rate gets set for my shops... and any more, everyone just sets it to 100%, so even that's no longer anything I care about.
What you're describing doesn't actually sound like a game to me, let alone an MMO. "Just leave me alone and let me sit in my shoppe, doing literally nothing else."

You're putting words in my mouth that don't belong there.

I am playing the game. I show up because of the businesses. After that, I see which of my hearties are online, if anything is going on. Maybe I try to scrounge up a map and do a CI or kraken run (gotta get ink for my apoth so I can get black cloth for my tailor, after all, I'm based on one of the minor islands so nobody brings stuff to me, gotta get my own). I may even run a pillage, show off some of my ships. I'm probably at sea a couple days a week still. Granted, that's down from six days out of seven several years back... but it would be less than that if I didn't have the shops to remind me to show up.

Now, you scrape the ocean, start again.

Of my half-dozen closest hearties, one of my hearties isn't going to return, period. I know that for a fact. She'll be royally pissed off that she lost everything she worked for over most of a decade. One will; she plays poker so much that she's used to starting over on a regular basis. Two have rather impressive collections that, I sort of suspect, was partially funded by a good chunk of real-life money (via the dub exchange, all you cynical people out there), that you're telling them that just got tossed in the trash. Think that will make them bitter?

The last two I'm not sure about. But they float in and out of the game on a regular basis-- I don't know if they would actively try to hunt people down, or trust that luck would help them re-establish those connections, finding everyone they knew on various voyages.

This, of course, doesn't include all those hearties who haven't logged on in a year, but may well return. Several times I've seen faces return after extended breaks, and I often hear them say "It's good to see a familiar face" when I send them jobbing invitations. That will be lost when my hearty list gets scraped, too.

That's what I would lose. At least half of my top hearties. All the extended hearties that I didn't re-luck into.

Would I return? Well, let's see. In addition to losing most of my hearty list, I also lose all my possessions. I no longer have any shops to give me a reason to show up on a regular basis. I lose my ocean memorization, and I've done so much dnavving that I really, really don't want to be forced to do it again.

And I also lose my pride and joy, my fleet. I spent several years building up my CI fleet. All my ships are renamed and painted, except for a few LE ones that were prepainted. Most of them have extensive furniture collections. I also have pillaging fanchuan, junks, and war brigs with similar treatments, and even a war frigate renamed the Hispaniola (look it up if you don't recognize it), in case I want to do any real big ship runs. And I enjoy showing these ships off-- it's a lot of fun seeing people's reactions when I job them onto Cursed Isle Raider I. Now, while this isn't critical to game play, it's one of the fringe benefits of being an established player that I really enjoy. All gone

So, what's left? A new and exciting blockade scene where we're fighting for control of brand-spanking new islands! Which will be as exciting as the first time I saw it happening!

Oh, wait. I ignored it back then, too.

So I would probably occasionally pop in to watch the final death spiral of the game. But I doubt I would have much enthusiasm to play anywhere near as much as I did, or even do now. Which means that of my three top hearties that may show up still, they probably will have lost me. Well, two of them would, at least: one is online so often I would probably end up running into her again, even if I'm just occasionally popping in and out.
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Gurndigarn on Emerald Ocean
"Oh, come on. You jobbed onto a ship called the Cursed Isle Raider and you expected *refined*?"
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[Edit 7 times, last edit by xelto at May 19, 2016 5:50:24 PM]
[May 19, 2016 4:38:36 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
majestrate

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Re: The Campaign for Ocean Dusting Reply to this Post
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I also got my start with Stuyvesant and BNB, so using "Fandango" as a slur may not be the best tactic.

It wasn't a slur. I am comparing your attitude to attitudes of the past. An attitude that I took issue with back then and an attitude I take issue with now.
 
It's true, I have no stomach whatsoever for "This is my shoppe, it is mine because of inertia, I do nothing with it, nothing in the game matters, and you'll pry it from my cold, dead hands."

If someone is paying their taxes, and they are playing the game, then what does it matter what they do with the shoppe? If they aren't selling anything, then it's less competition in an already crowded market.

Now, if you want to talk about dormant accounts holding deeds, then I agree. That's the stuff that needs to get reset.

With all that said, do you even play anymore? Alt or otherwise? If not, then I think I'll go back to ignoring your thread because your opinion shouldn't matter if you have nothing invested in the game.
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[May 19, 2016 5:59:27 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    first_majestrate    majestrait [Link]  Go to top 
ponytailguy

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If someone is paying their taxes, and they are playing the game, then what does it matter what they do with the shoppe?
Because YPP is, at least in theory, an MMO with a player-driven economy which, at least in theory, interacts with a server-level political system. If any individual system within that framework breaks down or grinds to a halt, that failure radiates outward. At the moment, the sheer number of shoppes serves as both a barrier to new players (who can't get into the "shoppe game") and to the development of interesting politics: why own an island if your prize for winning it is... getting to defend it against BKs, and not much else? (And that becomes doubly bothersome as the ocean population continues to plummet to the level where the ocean can probably only sustain a handful of flags who could blockade an island, even if they were inclined to do so.)
 
If they aren't selling anything, then it's less competition in an already crowded market.
It's still atomization of the server economy, splitting a level of activity which could sustain an archipelago or two across the equivalent of fourteen of them, most of which are palpably empty. It's still a barrier to entry to new players who don't crack the social puzzle. It's still a disincentive for people to go to the trouble of acquiring or fighting for islands, unless they're just in it for the trophy value. It's still highly visible stagnation.
 
Now, if you want to talk about dormant accounts holding deeds, then I agree. That's the stuff that needs to get reset.
The main problem is the sheer volume of colonized islands, something you've already conceded: the playerbase is far too small to sustain an ocean this big. That means islands -- and, by extension, shoppes -- need to go dark, regardless of who owns them.
 
With all that said, do you even play anymore? Alt or otherwise? If not, then I think I'll go back to ignoring your thread because your opinion shouldn't matter if you have nothing invested in the game.
I have logged in occasionally. I wouldn't call it "playing", because that isn't what it feels like. It feels like logging into a long-dead MMO with a skeletal playerbase who, on the one hand, insist that the game is still vibrant and active and lively, while also insisting upon stagnation and preservation of the status quo -- and who have nothing whatsoever to say about the fact that there are basically no new players, and who feel no responsibility whatsoever for attracting them.

Then they pull foolish stuff like "unless you're an active player, I don't care what you think, I'm just gonna ignore you". Because if there's one surefire way of growing the game and making it more attractive to outsiders, it's treating anyone without an active subscription as a traitor to the cause.
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The Ghost of Oceans Past
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[Edit 3 times, last edit by ponytailguy at May 20, 2016 6:43:02 AM]
[May 20, 2016 6:25:35 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
majestrate

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Because YPP is, at least in theory, an MMO with a player-driven economy which, at least in theory, interacts with a server-level political system. If any individual system within that framework breaks down or grinds to a halt, that failure radiates outward. At the moment, the sheer number of shoppes serves as both a barrier to new players (who can't get into the "shoppe game") and to the development of interesting politics: why own an island if your prize for winning it is... getting to defend it against BKs, and not much else? (And that becomes doubly bothersome as the ocean population continues to plummet to the level where the ocean can probably only sustain a handful of flags who could blockade an island, even if they were inclined to do so.)

The number of shoppes is not a barrier to anyone that wants to become a shoppekeeper. Competing against a "trinket" shoppe is no different than competing against a mismanaged shoppe.

The politics of Cerulean are where they're at because it's an old and tired dog. A fresh start isn't going to change that fact. Even if there's an influx of new players that work to revitalize the political scene, it's still going to come down to "flag A is bad because they did something that bothers me" vs "flag B is bad because they want to control everything". Which then becomes nothing more than twisting each other's words and playing the finger-pointing game.

While you say you want "interesting politics", what you really want is a high-school teenage drama-fest. Because that's all it is.
 
The main problem is the sheer volume of colonized islands, something you've already conceded: the playerbase is far too small to sustain an ocean this big. That means islands -- and, by extension, shoppes -- need to go dark, regardless of who owns them

Excuse me, I didn't concede anything. I was saying that Cerulean needed a very large portion of the colonized islands to be reverted to uncolonized long before you started this thread.

Do not begin to think that your thread has convinced me that your plan is a feasible and logical one.
 
I have logged in occasionally. I wouldn't call it "playing", because that isn't what it feels like. It feels like logging into a long-dead MMO with a skeletal playerbase who, on the one hand, insist that the game is still vibrant and active and lively, while also insisting upon stagnation and preservation of the status quo -- and who have nothing whatsoever to say about the fact that there are basically no new players, and who feel no responsibility whatsoever for attracting them.

Wiping a server and starting over isn't going to automatically attract new players. I don't insist upon stagnation and preservation of the status quo. Change the ocean, or at least attempt to do so, all you want, but do so without wiping it.
 
Then they pull foolish stuff like "unless you're an active player, I don't care what you think, I'm just gonna ignore you". Because if there's one surefire way of growing the game and making it more attractive to outsiders, it's treating anyone without an active subscription as a traitor to the cause.

I play. I have things I simply don't want to lose due to a server wipe. Agree with that or don't, doesn't matter. You haven't put any effort into achieving goals in the past however-many years. Why should I listen to someone who is calling for all of my effort to be erased when that person hasn't been active in the game, setting goals and working towards them, thus erasing their own efforts as well?
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[May 20, 2016 8:49:08 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    first_majestrate    majestrait [Link]  Go to top 
ponytailguy

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The number of shoppes is not a barrier to anyone that wants to become a shoppekeeper. Competing against a "trinket" shoppe is no different than competing against a mismanaged shoppe.

You're bypassing 90% of my argument and fixating upon a very minor point, but, okay, sure.

How is a new player supposed to get into shopkeeping when the economy is this stretched, and this empty? Where's the incentive? What's the point, aside from the vague pleasure of owning a marginally-unprofitable building that nobody visits on an island nobody visits?

 
The politics of Cerulean are where they're at because it's an old and tired dog. A fresh start isn't going to change that fact. Even if there's an influx of new players that work to revitalize the political scene, it's still going to come down to "flag A is bad because they did something that bothers me" vs "flag B is bad because they want to control everything". Which then becomes nothing more than twisting each other's words and playing the finger-pointing game.

While you say you want "interesting politics", what you really want is a high-school teenage drama-fest. Because that's all it is.


I don't buy a word of this. Mostly it sounds like you're just still bitter about Notorious Fandango.

 
Excuse me, I didn't concede anything. I was saying that Cerulean needed a very large portion of the colonized islands to be reverted to uncolonized long before you started this thread.
Okay, let's play it your way: whose property do you plan to confiscate? Which specific islands are you going to shut down, whose shoppes are you dusting, and how do you plan to address the very real tarting -- much of which you yourself participate in -- to the effect that if anyone touches anything you own, you're quitting?

If this solution is staring us all in the face and you've been actively advocating it since forever and we're all such idiots for not listening to your well-thought-out plan, surely you'll oblige us by outlining it in full -- because if all you've got behind it is a vague notion that this would be nice without any idea of how to actually implement any of it, you're rather overplaying your hand by getting all standoffish over it.

And to spare you two silly suggestions I fear I'm about to hear, you can't just move shoppes from unpopulated islands to populated islands, nor can you compensate people for losing their deeds. Moving shoppes around will just break the economies on islands which are already fragile: if Alpha can only support two stalls at a given bazaar, suddenly dumping seven shoppes onto the island will make the whole thing worse instead of better. And compensating people for deeds means we're taking some of the most toxic and worthless assets on the ocean -- shoppes nobody visits on islands nobody cares about -- and throwing money at people for giving them up, which addresses neither the tarty problem (YOU TOOK MY THINGS AWAY! I QUIT!) nor the economy problem. (There's already too much PoE floating around. Pouring more PoE into the economy, especially by giving it to people who already have plenty, makes that problem worse instead of better.)

The reason I advocate for a wipe is because there is no fair way of doing this: of picking and choosing who gives up assets and who gets to keep them. The only equitable way of handling it which would actually address the problems I'm teasing out is to treat everyone the same and make everyone take it from zero.
 
Wiping a server and starting over isn't going to automatically attract new players.
I didn't say it would. I did say that the ocean is presently inhospitable to new players because of its vastness, emptiness, and the barriers to participation, all of which would be addressed by a wipe -- and that, until that problem of inhospitability is addressed, any effort spent attracting new players is wasted.
 
I don't insist upon stagnation and preservation of the status quo. Change the ocean, or at least attempt to do so, all you want, but do so without wiping it.
Can't be done.
 
I play. I have things I simply don't want to lose due to a server wipe. Agree with that or don't, doesn't matter. You haven't put any effort into achieving goals in the past however-many years. Why should I listen to someone who is calling for all of my effort to be erased when that person hasn't been active in the game, setting goals and working towards them, thus erasing their own efforts as well?
Because I'm looking at it from outside the game, as someone who might be enticed back in if the game were halfway interesting. As it stands, mostly it's an empty gallery of other people's property: empty inns, empty shoppes, understaffed ships, islands owned by flags with fewer than ten active pirates, and many other ways to admire things that belong to other people, but not much else -- unless you're in the right social circles and can parley yourself into the meagre activity available to high-end players. You can go an entire evening without a single greenie-accessible activity showing up on the notice board, and you can forget about encountering other people on the docks.

That's not sustainable. That's stagnant. And if you don't see how you're advocating for that stagnation, I just don't think I can help you.
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The Ghost of Oceans Past
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by ponytailguy at May 20, 2016 9:33:47 AM]
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ryujinpp

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You can spend an entire weekday evening checking the notice board and only find one or two pillages suitable for new players. Everyone else is on high-end KB hunts, or chasing red brigands, or pillaging on hearty terms (not on the list? no job for you), or huddling in their shoppes twiddling their numbers and not otherwise engaging with any other part of the game.

if there is a reset, everyone start anew as any fresh greenie...
and IF i do decide to start all over again rather than moving on elsewhere...

first thing i would do is get a sloop as soon as possible, then try to get a kraken map, then i'd just kraken (even if that means soloing) whenever i log in rather than doing anything else

why? cos that would be the faster way fer me to start accumulating wealth to do other stuffs in the game eg buy bigger ships, buy shoppe etc

and i believe that would likely be the same path the majority of former players will do too, though there will be some others who would be spending most of their time at the poker table bcos that to them is the fastest way to accumulate wealth

so, on the newly reset ocean... new players (by that i mean REALLY NEW ones who never play before) will still be seeing the notice board being filled with krakens most of the time

what i'm trying to say is, there are a number of inherent "flaws" in the game which drastically requires fixing, without which.. stuffs like advertising, ocean reset etc etc wouldn't matter much

as far as i'm concerned, ocean dusting wouldn't necessarily means seeing increase in population, and it certainly will not make the really new players (playing fer the first time) to keep on playing fer very long with the unresolved problem pertaining to player retention
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Galene tells ye, "I reserve the right to not deliver prizes to you anymore in the future :P"
Galene tells ye, "You crashed me 6 times!"

Ryujin on all oceans
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majestrate

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How is a new player supposed to get into shopkeeping when the economy is this stretched, and this empty? Where's the incentive? What's the point, aside from the vague pleasure of owning a marginally-unprofitable building that nobody visits on an island nobody visits?

As Ryu points out, a server wipe isn't going to automatically level the playing field for a new player.
 
I don't buy a word of this. Mostly it sounds like you're just still bitter about Notorious Fandango.

Fandango had no part of what I'm talking about. Your obliviousness to it makes me think you either never participated at that level or you simply had your head in the sand.
 
Okay, let's play it your way: whose property do you plan to confiscate? Which specific islands are you going to shut down, whose shoppes are you dusting, and how do you plan to address the very real tarting -- much of which you yourself participate in -- to the effect that if anyone touches anything you own, you're quitting?

If this solution is staring us all in the face and you've been actively advocating it since forever and we're all such idiots for not listening to your well-thought-out plan, surely you'll oblige us by outlining it in full -- because if all you've got behind it is a vague notion that this would be nice without any idea of how to actually implement any of it, you're rather overplaying your hand by getting all standoffish over it.

Never said I had a full, well-thought-out plan. My point is nothing more than to correct you in your statement that I conceded to some point that you made. I believe I've said before that the only "fair" way I can think to do something like that is to bring in the "Titan" and use it to collapse islands.
 
And to spare you two silly suggestions I fear I'm about to hear, you can't just move shoppes from unpopulated islands to populated islands, nor can you compensate people for losing their deeds. Moving shoppes around will just break the economies on islands which are already fragile: if Alpha can only support two stalls at a given bazaar, suddenly dumping seven shoppes onto the island will make the whole thing worse instead of better.

This makes no sense. If you move 7 stalls onto an island that currently only has 2 stalls, and you're closing the islands that previously supported those 7 stalls, all of your activity is going to follow those stalls. So, there might be a week or so of lean sales, but people are going to have to move their activities to where the commods are at, otherwise they won't be able to supply their ships.
 
And compensating people for deeds means we're taking some of the most toxic and worthless assets on the ocean -- shoppes nobody visits on islands nobody cares about -- and throwing money at people for giving them up, which addresses neither the tarty problem (YOU TOOK MY THINGS AWAY! I QUIT!) nor the economy problem. (There's already too much PoE floating around. Pouring more PoE into the economy, especially by giving it to people who already have plenty, makes that problem worse instead of better.)

What makes you think there's already too many eights sitting around doing nothing?

Obviously deeds aren't worthless. If they were, people wouldn't buy them.

Again, I go back to, people have time and effort invested into what they hold on their pirate. I think it's insulting to basically come in here and call those of us who don't want to start over childish for vocalizing that resetting everything we've done is going to cause us to no longer play.
 
 
I don't insist upon stagnation and preservation of the status quo. Change the ocean, or at least attempt to do so, all you want, but do so without wiping it.
Can't be done.

That's incorrect. What you should be saying is that it's too much effort to do, and the easier course is to simply force everyone to start over.
 
 
I play. I have things I simply don't want to lose due to a server wipe. Agree with that or don't, doesn't matter. You haven't put any effort into achieving goals in the past however-many years. Why should I listen to someone who is calling for all of my effort to be erased when that person hasn't been active in the game, setting goals and working towards them, thus erasing their own efforts as well?
Because I'm looking at it from outside the game, as someone who might be enticed back in if the game were halfway interesting. As it stands, mostly it's an empty gallery of other people's property: empty inns, empty shoppes, understaffed ships, islands owned by flags with fewer than ten active pirates, and many other ways to admire things that belong to other people, but not much else -- unless you're in the right social circles and can parley yourself into the meagre activity available to high-end players. You can go an entire evening without a single greenie-accessible activity showing up on the notice board, and you can forget about encountering other people on the docks.

That's not sustainable. That's stagnant. And if you don't see how you're advocating for that stagnation, I just don't think I can help you.

Your ignorance of Cerulean is showing. Do I get /tells to come join an activity? Sure, but in almost all cases, those same activities are up on the Notice Board. So it's not some elitist circle that gets me invited onto things. I imagine the green oceans are a bit different in that respect, but since I don't play there, I can't comment.
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We can't rely on majestrate he yells at people


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ponytailguy

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As Ryu points out, a server wipe isn't going to automatically level the playing field for a new player.
I have repeatedly said, in this thread and elsewhere, that an ocean dusting is in no sense incompatible with rebalancing or rejiggering the game. But the economy already being as stagnant and broken as it is, and as inaccessible to new players, tinkering with rebalancing, by itself, won't amount to much.

 
Fandango had no part of what I'm talking about. Your obliviousness to it makes me think you either never participated at that level or you simply had your head in the sand.
More naked elitism. Neat.

 
Never said I had a full, well-thought-out plan. My point is nothing more than to correct you in your statement that I conceded to some point that you made. I believe I've said before that the only "fair" way I can think to do something like that is to bring in the "Titan" and use it to collapse islands.
What, in the context of this thread, with people howling at the suggestion that they might have to forego or give up literally anything? You really think these people would find the Titan acceptable? What problem does this even solve? And where does a skeletal dev team find time to knock off a feature which has been marked incomplete and unattainble in the medium term since 2006?

 
This makes no sense. If you move 7 stalls onto an island that currently only has 2 stalls, and you're closing the islands that previously supported those 7 stalls, all of your activity is going to follow those stalls. So, there might be a week or so of lean sales, but people are going to have to move their activities to where the commods are at, otherwise they won't be able to supply their ships.
The point of the exercise is that there generally isn't the level of activity necessary to sustain these shoppes in their present locations: they're coasting on inertia and once-in-a-blue-moon, whoops-I'm-in-Opal-and-out-of-rum, how-did-that-even-happen purchases. Moving these shoppes out of their far-flung locations doesn't bring demand with them, certainly not enough to boost the economy in the central archipelagos enough to justify tripling or quadrupling the number of shoppes.

 
What makes you think there's already too many eights sitting around doing nothing?
The fact that people complain about it, for a start. "All this money and nothing to do with it, ho hum, don't even know why I bother any more..."

 
Obviously deeds aren't worthless. If they were, people wouldn't buy them.
The argument you're making -- that we should focus on dusting far-flung islands because they'll be missed the least -- is predicated upon the idea that these deeds are much less valuable and the shoppes much less important, so people won't be so aggrieved to see them go. This is your premise, not mine.

 
Again, I go back to, people have time and effort invested into what they hold on their pirate. I think it's insulting to basically come in here and call those of us who don't want to start over childish for vocalizing that resetting everything we've done is going to cause us to no longer play.
If you value your digital curio cabinet more than you value the game -- if, as some people here have suggested, you no longer even play the game, you mostly just log in to admire your digital property and occasionally fiddle around in a shoppe you've owned since forever -- that becomes a problem for the game. It's stagnant, it's unsustainable, it makes the game unattractive to new players, and it's not what a healthy MMO (even a small healthy MMO) looks like.

 
What you should be saying is that it's too much effort to do, and the easier course is to simply force everyone to start over.
Nobody has yet articulated a workable vision for how it might be done: I've heard a lot of handwaving about new features that might arrive (but probably won't), "other ways" (which are never defined or explained), and non-solutions, but no actual "easier course". You yourself have basically thrown your hands up in the air and admitted you've got nothing except a feature Cleaver mentioned once, about a decade ago, which long ago fell off the map.

 
Your ignorance of Cerulean is showing.
Your obliviousness to the experience of new players and utter disinterest in their retention is showing.
 
Do I get /tells to come join an activity? Sure, but in almost all cases, those same activities are up on the Notice Board.
...but don't accept jobbers without a bunch of stats way beyond the reach of a genuinely new player.
 
So it's not some elitist circle that gets me invited onto things.
Mmmmhmmmmmmmmmm.
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The Ghost of Oceans Past
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by ponytailguy at May 20, 2016 11:46:32 AM]
[May 20, 2016 11:42:33 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
majestrate

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Yeah, you're pretty much talking out of your ass. I knew I shouldn't have bothered getting back into this thread. Thanks for confirming that.

I'd wish you well in this endeavor, but I don't want it to succeed, so have fun playing some other game.
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Marto wrote: 
We can't rely on majestrate he yells at people


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[May 20, 2016 12:12:12 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    first_majestrate    majestrait [Link]  Go to top 
ponytailguy

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I'd wish you well in this endeavor, but I don't want it to succeed, so have fun playing some other game.
Thanks! Have fun not playing this one!
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The Ghost of Oceans Past
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bronzebeard

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Arrrr mateys! Whether there be one ocean or many, as long as ye're all lily-livered landlubbers, it not be worth playin'. Ye need to encourage some real piracy again and mates'll want to get into it! The real villains that made the game are long gone... tis a shame, fer sure! Now back to me cave!
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Peglegpaul
Now on Obsidian!
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Dougerarg

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meh, I would play again
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Scervy of Hunter
Omnis on Sage

Retired YPP player. Miss all my old pals from long ago
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CaptManta

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I played YPP for 7.5 years solid. I never officially retired, but I stopped playing some time in 2012.

Since then I've been playing or have played other games - Minecraft, EVE, Spiral Knights, Mario Kart 8, Cubeworld and hundreds of apps.

I don't think I'll ever find such a fantastic community again - in any game.

No other game has grabbed me like YPP did. The exhilaration of exploration and discovery seemed very real, and it was very engaging. The kind of engagement where your thoughts are delightfully consumed by the game for days, months, years - in sleep and wakefulness.

Logging on now, it's hit and miss (mostly miss) whether you will run into any mates or activity at all.

Personally, I have always thought an in-game mail system might have improved communication in game. I realize it would be a massive project (then and now). Flag and crew news comes and goes, but if I could log on now and check my mail, or send some mail to try to generate some activity, I probably would.

New clothing/trophies/sloops/familiars/pets will never replace the type of excitement generated through discovery & exploration, but YPP is the one game I'm never quite ready to let go of completely.
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Gorillabuddy

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Personally, I have always thought an in-game mail system might have improved communication in game. I realize it would be a massive project (then and now). Flag and crew news comes and goes, but if I could log on now and check my mail, or send some mail to try to generate some activity, I probably would.


I like this idea. I'm gonna cross post it to game design if you don't mind.
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Pliskin of Cerulean

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[Jun 21, 2016 2:06:15 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
CaptManta

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I like this idea. I'm gonna cross post it to game design if you don't mind.


Of course :)
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Manta
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