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bailet

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Implement a game-wide voting booth for content changes/patches Reply to this Post
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If anyone has kept up with the existence of old-school runescape, the game has implemented a voting booth where developers propose balance changes and content updates and the entire player base takes a vote. Measures that do not reach 75% approval are not progressed and nothing changes.

Why do we need something like this?

Players need to be heard. We come on the game design forums spouting our woes and arguing over silly topics without a developer in sight. The proportion of people that use the forums is miserably low and those that consider the game design channel is even lower.

On the noticeboard should be a tab where the developers propose small changes and everyone votes yay or nay. Creating some arbitrary vote goal to implement something does not matter.

Even if nothing is ever changed, if Y!PP were to never receive another actual content patch (seasonal bs doesn't count), there needs to be an effort at communicating with the remaining player base.

Transparency has been OOO's problem since the beginning, don't let it be Grey Haven's as well.
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[May 25, 2016 11:50:06 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Detail8

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Re: Implement a game-wide voting booth for content changes/patches Reply to this Post
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I completely agree with this. Things need to change yo not only attract new players but to also keep the players who have been here for years like myself
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[May 26, 2016 7:11:23 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
jlh0605

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Re: Implement a game-wide voting booth for content changes/patches Reply to this Post
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I like the idea.

But...

What exactly would we vote on? We don't need to vote on new content, obviously.

If there are things like payout rebalancing (*cough* making pillaging and flotillas pay more and Atlantis/CI/Kraken pay less *cough*), I would actually prefer a well-set up survey. This could be done a lot simpler, with a lot less dev time, then a voting system.

I would support a popup on login (even before seeing the notice board) that points to surveys, etc. This way, even though the actual voting is done out-of-game (in a browser), all players are made aware of it. Of course, they'd have to be careful about alt-vote-mitigation, multiple votes, etc. But this seems like a compromise between the in-game system you mention, and less dev time.

I do agree with your point about needing transparency. This game needs transparency. I would support having regular (weekly, at least) developer updates, even if it's a simple "Look, guys, we're still having issues getting <specific part of game> to work on the Grey Havens servers".
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[May 26, 2016 7:36:58 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    Hidden to Guest [Link]  Go to top 
Unbreakable7



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Re: Implement a game-wide voting booth for content changes/patches Reply to this Post
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I 100% agree with you, but it will most likely never happen. Grey Havens is going to most likely tread down the same path as OOO.

Last week I created a thread asking Grey Havens what their plan is for the game, if they have one. As well as asked how a group of people becomes the new owners of a game and makes no statement to the players.

My thread was deleted.

I then e-mailed them twice asking why my thread was deleted for asking a simple question.

No response came.

Pretty clear to see the Grey Havens does not care about future development of the game, they may even be worse than OOO. At least with OOO I would get a response if i e-mailed them.
[May 26, 2016 11:02:57 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
bailet

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Re: Implement a game-wide voting booth for content changes/patches Reply to this Post
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I like the idea.

But...

What exactly would we vote on? We don't need to vote on new content, obviously.

If there are things like payout rebalancing (*cough* making pillaging and flotillas pay more and Atlantis/CI/Kraken pay less *cough*), I would actually prefer a well-set up survey. This could be done a lot simpler, with a lot less dev time, then a voting system.

I would support a popup on login (even before seeing the notice board) that points to surveys, etc. This way, even though the actual voting is done out-of-game (in a browser), all players are made aware of it. Of course, they'd have to be careful about alt-vote-mitigation, multiple votes, etc. But this seems like a compromise between the in-game system you mention, and less dev time.

I do agree with your point about needing transparency. This game needs transparency. I would support having regular (weekly, at least) developer updates, even if it's a simple "Look, guys, we're still having issues getting <specific part of game> to work on the Grey Havens servers".


Something, anything. Players have been shouting for small scale changes for years. Simple number tweaks.

The game has and will always be run by players. The economy, jobber force, everything. Players should be given the opportunity to give input on number tweaks that have been long awaited.
----------------------------------------
Clotho tells ye, "did you hide the skellies this time?"
OM MESSAGE: Complaining the on-duty OM will only result in another flurry of eggs being sent out into the YPP world. Go #TeamPurple!
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[May 26, 2016 11:12:31 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
majestrate

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Re: Implement a game-wide voting booth for content changes/patches Reply to this Post
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The game has and will always be run by players. The economy, jobber force, everything. Players should be given the opportunity to give input on number tweaks that have been long awaited.

The gameplay has been run by players. The game has always been run by the company owning it.

It's been said a multitude of times, and yet it still has to be said. The reason there isn't a ton of interaction with players in terms of talking through changes/exploring ideas on what should happen in the game is that time and again players cannot distinguish between a dialog with devs/OMs and guidance/direction from the decision makers.

You people talk of wanting transparency, but what you actually want is to be a community of decision makers. I don't agree with this. You have no financial stake in this game thriving. If you want to be a decision maker, write to Grey Havens and ask if you can invest in the company and be granted a voice on decisions.

If you owned a company, would you really want people who have no stake in profitability to be the ones guiding your business decisions? If you say yes to this, I fear for anyone that works in your employ.
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[May 26, 2016 11:50:13 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    first_majestrate    majestrait [Link]  Go to top 
xelto

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Re: Implement a game-wide voting booth for content changes/patches Reply to this Post
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What exactly would we vote on? We don't need to vote on new content, obviously.

QFT
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[May 26, 2016 1:33:03 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
jlh0605

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Re: Implement a game-wide voting booth for content changes/patches Reply to this Post
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What exactly would we vote on? We don't need to vote on new content, obviously.
Just to clarify, I meant that they can roll new content (promotions, LE ships, etc.) without us voting. However, when it comes to "next big thing", I think voting should be *a* factor, but not *the* factor.
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[May 26, 2016 3:34:28 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    Hidden to Guest [Link]  Go to top 
SeaGi

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Re: Implement a game-wide voting booth for content changes/patches Reply to this Post
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The game has and will always be run by players. The economy, jobber force, everything. Players should be given the opportunity to give input on number tweaks that have been long awaited.

The gameplay has been run by players. The game has always been run by the company owning it.

It's been said a multitude of times, and yet it still has to be said. The reason there isn't a ton of interaction with players in terms of talking through changes/exploring ideas on what should happen in the game is that time and again players cannot distinguish between a dialog with devs/OMs and guidance/direction from the decision makers.

You people talk of wanting transparency, but what you actually want is to be a community of decision makers. I don't agree with this. You have no financial stake in this game thriving. If you want to be a decision maker, write to Grey Havens and ask if you can invest in the company and be granted a voice on decisions.

If you owned a company, would you really want people who have no stake in profitability to be the ones guiding your business decisions? If you say yes to this, I fear for anyone that works in your employ.


+1eleventy
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[May 26, 2016 5:30:13 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Forculus
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Re: Implement a game-wide voting booth for content changes/patches Reply to this Post
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I'm sorry that I haven't been more available in the forums since the OOO -> Grey Havens switch. On the dev side of things, there's been a huge amount of infrastructure work from the server transition that I've been finishing up before fully switching gears into new features and changes. We've discussed a few possible ideas for larger changes, but I haven't had a chance to do an initial review to see which ideas are practical and in what sort of timeframe. I don't want to mention something as a possibility and then realize that the implementation is not feasible. But we definitely want to be more open with this process and have more community involvement in the future of the game once all of this infrastructure work is out of the way.

Handling game decisions by voting raises some interesting questions. Will players vote for changes that are best for the long term health of the game? As an arbitrary example, if a decrease in payouts was necessary, it might be difficult to reach 75% (or whatever limit) even if that was the right decision. Regardless, I agree that players need to know that their input is being heard and taken into consideration. Even if we don't use polls specifically, we'll find a way to let the community be involved and guide the future of Puzzle Pirates.
[May 30, 2016 2:34:53 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Notsizzly

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Re: Implement a game-wide voting booth for content changes/patches Reply to this Post
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I'm sorry that I haven't been more available in the forums since the OOO -> Grey Havens switch. On the dev side of things, there's been a huge amount of infrastructure work from the server transition that I've been finishing up before fully switching gears into new features and changes. We've discussed a few possible ideas for larger changes, but I haven't had a chance to do an initial review to see which ideas are practical and in what sort of timeframe. I don't want to mention something as a possibility and then realize that the implementation is not feasible. But we definitely want to be more open with this process and have more community involvement in the future of the game once all of this infrastructure work is out of the way.

Handling game decisions by voting raises some interesting questions. Will players vote for changes that are best for the long term health of the game? As an arbitrary example, if a decrease in payouts was necessary, it might be difficult to reach 75% (or whatever limit) even if that was the right decision. Regardless, I agree that players need to know that their input is being heard and taken into consideration. Even if we don't use polls specifically, we'll find a way to let the community be involved and guide the future of Puzzle Pirates.


This requires like button.
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[May 30, 2016 3:00:17 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
etieti

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Re: Implement a game-wide voting booth for content changes/patches Reply to this Post
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I'm sorry that I haven't been more available in the forums since the OOO -> Grey Havens switch. On the dev side of things, there's been a huge amount of infrastructure work from the server transition that I've been finishing up before fully switching gears into new features and changes. We've discussed a few possible ideas for larger changes, but I haven't had a chance to do an initial review to see which ideas are practical and in what sort of timeframe. I don't want to mention something as a possibility and then realize that the implementation is not feasible. But we definitely want to be more open with this process and have more community involvement in the future of the game once all of this infrastructure work is out of the way.

Handling game decisions by voting raises some interesting questions. Will players vote for changes that are best for the long term health of the game? As an arbitrary example, if a decrease in payouts was necessary, it might be difficult to reach 75% (or whatever limit) even if that was the right decision. Regardless, I agree that players need to know that their input is being heard and taken into consideration. Even if we don't use polls specifically, we'll find a way to let the community be involved and guide the future of Puzzle Pirates.


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+1

Much appreciated post Forculus :)
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[May 30, 2016 3:41:50 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
EmpressTamar

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Re: Implement a game-wide voting booth for content changes/patches Reply to this Post
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I'm sorry that I haven't been more available in the forums since the OOO -> Grey Havens switch. On the dev side of things, there's been a huge amount of infrastructure work from the server transition that I've been finishing up before fully switching gears into new features and changes. We've discussed a few possible ideas for larger changes, but I haven't had a chance to do an initial review to see which ideas are practical and in what sort of timeframe. I don't want to mention something as a possibility and then realize that the implementation is not feasible. But we definitely want to be more open with this process and have more community involvement in the future of the game once all of this infrastructure work is out of the way.

Handling game decisions by voting raises some interesting questions. Will players vote for changes that are best for the long term health of the game? As an arbitrary example, if a decrease in payouts was necessary, it might be difficult to reach 75% (or whatever limit) even if that was the right decision. Regardless, I agree that players need to know that their input is being heard and taken into consideration. Even if we don't use polls specifically, we'll find a way to let the community be involved and guide the future of Puzzle Pirates.


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+1

Much appreciated post Forculus :)

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[May 30, 2016 3:42:32 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Keaze

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Re: Implement a game-wide voting booth for content changes/patches Reply to this Post
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I'm sorry that I haven't been more available in the forums since the OOO -> Grey Havens switch. On the dev side of things, there's been a huge amount of infrastructure work from the server transition that I've been finishing up before fully switching gears into new features and changes. We've discussed a few possible ideas for larger changes, but I haven't had a chance to do an initial review to see which ideas are practical and in what sort of timeframe. I don't want to mention something as a possibility and then realize that the implementation is not feasible. But we definitely want to be more open with this process and have more community involvement in the future of the game once all of this infrastructure work is out of the way.

Handling game decisions by voting raises some interesting questions. Will players vote for changes that are best for the long term health of the game? As an arbitrary example, if a decrease in payouts was necessary, it might be difficult to reach 75% (or whatever limit) even if that was the right decision. Regardless, I agree that players need to know that their input is being heard and taken into consideration. Even if we don't use polls specifically, we'll find a way to let the community be involved and guide the future of Puzzle Pirates.


This requires like button.


+1

Much appreciated post Forculus :)

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[May 30, 2016 3:44:50 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
jlh0605

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Re: Implement a game-wide voting booth for content changes/patches Reply to this Post
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I'm sorry that I haven't been more available in the forums since the OOO -> Grey Havens switch. On the dev side of things, there's been a huge amount of infrastructure work from the server transition that I've been finishing up before fully switching gears into new features and changes. We've discussed a few possible ideas for larger changes, but I haven't had a chance to do an initial review to see which ideas are practical and in what sort of timeframe. I don't want to mention something as a possibility and then realize that the implementation is not feasible. But we definitely want to be more open with this process and have more community involvement in the future of the game once all of this infrastructure work is out of the way.

Handling game decisions by voting raises some interesting questions. Will players vote for changes that are best for the long term health of the game? As an arbitrary example, if a decrease in payouts was necessary, it might be difficult to reach 75% (or whatever limit) even if that was the right decision. Regardless, I agree that players need to know that their input is being heard and taken into consideration. Even if we don't use polls specifically, we'll find a way to let the community be involved and guide the future of Puzzle Pirates.


This requires like button.


+1

Much appreciated post Forculus :)

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[May 31, 2016 5:27:40 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    Hidden to Guest [Link]  Go to top 
Momma_Wolf



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Re: Implement a game-wide voting booth for content changes/patches Reply to this Post
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Thank you for the answer, Forculus.

May I suggest a return to something that seemed to work well, from a player perspective? OM Office hours. I know it took up OM time, and is hard to have a presence on every ocean for multiple time zones, but perhaps this could work again.
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[May 31, 2016 11:35:37 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Convention

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Re: Implement a game-wide voting booth for content changes/patches Reply to this Post
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I'm sorry that I haven't been more available in the forums since the OOO -> Grey Havens switch. On the dev side of things, there's been a huge amount of infrastructure work from the server transition that I've been finishing up before fully switching gears into new features and changes. We've discussed a few possible ideas for larger changes, but I haven't had a chance to do an initial review to see which ideas are practical and in what sort of timeframe. I don't want to mention something as a possibility and then realize that the implementation is not feasible. But we definitely want to be more open with this process and have more community involvement in the future of the game once all of this infrastructure work is out of the way.

Handling game decisions by voting raises some interesting questions. Will players vote for changes that are best for the long term health of the game? As an arbitrary example, if a decrease in payouts was necessary, it might be difficult to reach 75% (or whatever limit) even if that was the right decision. Regardless, I agree that players need to know that their input is being heard and taken into consideration. Even if we don't use polls specifically, we'll find a way to let the community be involved and guide the future of Puzzle Pirates.

Literally the most glorious thing posted on the forums since they fixed puzzle competition tiebreakers.
[Jun 1, 2016 10:43:29 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Faulkston

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Unbreakable7 wrote: 
Last week I created a thread asking Grey Havens what their plan is for the game, if they have one. As well as asked how a group of people becomes the new owners of a game and makes no statement to the players.

My thread was deleted.

It wasn't deleted, it's over here: http://forums.puzzlepirates.com/community/mvnforum/viewthread?thread=205076
That thread's asking the Grey Havens company rather open ended questions about something other than Game Design.
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[Jun 6, 2016 10:33:49 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://forums.puzzlepirates.com/community/mvnforum/search [Link]  Go to top 
mackmorrison

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Just wanted to add, if voting made any difference they wouldn't let us do it. Not trying to say this is exclusive to PP if you catch the drift.
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[Jun 16, 2016 5:17:05 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
dragonfirezw

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Just wanted to add, if voting made any difference they wouldn't let us do it. Not trying to say this is exclusive to PP if you catch the drift.


All the world’s a stage, And all the men and women merely players. -Except for the devs
[Jun 26, 2016 5:17:17 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
xelto

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Re: Implement a game-wide voting booth for content changes/patches Reply to this Post
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I'm sorry that I haven't been more available in the forums since the OOO -> Grey Havens switch. On the dev side of things, there's been a huge amount of infrastructure work from the server transition that I've been finishing up before fully switching gears into new features and changes. We've discussed a few possible ideas for larger changes, but I haven't had a chance to do an initial review to see which ideas are practical and in what sort of timeframe. I don't want to mention something as a possibility and then realize that the implementation is not feasible. But we definitely want to be more open with this process and have more community involvement in the future of the game once all of this infrastructure work is out of the way.

It's been a few months since this post. Any news you can let out of the bag?
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[Jul 18, 2016 6:03:48 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Forculus
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I have some changes that I wanted to post for discussion last week, but there's some parts of the implementation that I'm still sorting out in the code. I'll post the details as soon as that's been worked out.
[Jul 19, 2016 5:24:43 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
xelto

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I have some changes that I wanted to post for discussion last week, but there's some parts of the implementation that I'm still sorting out in the code. I'll post the details as soon as that's been worked out.

Looking forward to seeing it.
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