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Posted by char at Jun 17, 2004 1:34:05 PM
/Me
Just wondering and probably already stated somewhere, BUT why doesnt the /me in flag officer chat and tells dont work. It doesnt make sence.

Zife
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Zife
Senior Officer of Black Death
Host of the 11th Black Death Tournament
Co-Host of the 10th Black Death Tournament

Posted by FrankGrimes at Jun 17, 2004 1:46:10 PM
Re: /Me
Because you're technically already using a /command. To avoid confusion, I suppose it's like that to specify that you're being TOLD and it's on flagchat, and not royalty.

In short, I have no idea.
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Grimes: Retired
Former badass

Posted by Rubby at Jun 17, 2004 1:48:46 PM
Re: /Me
To expand, typing /me in an /fo sends it as "Rubby flag officer chats, "/me text"" and in a tell the same thing. It also sends that in officer chat.

I would wager that it sends it as "/me text" to keep the "Rubby flag officer chats," part in tact. Otherwise it would be a tad confusing.

My problem, is that if you're using the tell chat box, rather than /tell name, typing /me message sends the message to the 'Speak' channel rather than a tell. That can cause some silly situations. I've already bugged that, so who knows.

Posted by char at Jun 17, 2004 1:50:37 PM
Re: /Me
But i could tell by the color its easy. i kinda can understand the flag officer chat. But not for tells.
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Zife
Senior Officer of Black Death
Host of the 11th Black Death Tournament
Co-Host of the 10th Black Death Tournament

Posted by adramolek at Jun 17, 2004 1:52:47 PM
Re: /Me
Lol, what would it say?

/fo /me posts on the forum
"Solos posts on the forum ...in front of all the flag officers."
----------------------------------------
The List: Where good suggestions go when they die.
More swords now thx.
CLICKY -> CLICK HERE TO CLAIM YOUR 100000 POE PRIZE! <- CLICKY
Avatar by KingPriam! ^.^

Posted by Rubby at Jun 17, 2004 1:57:15 PM
Re: /Me
char wrote: 
But i could tell by the color its easy. i kinda can understand the flag officer chat. But not for tells.


Because it's already 'You told JoePirate". Having it be "Rubby tells JoePirate" is a bit silly.

Posted by 54x at Jun 17, 2004 2:44:19 PM
Re: /Me
If the chat could tell between genders, then we could have:

"Rubby flag officer chats that he [insert emote phrase here]"

and:

"Edalbdnomaid tells you that she"

This would also allow us to have:

"Diamondblade sticks out his tongue"

which I have wanted for a while :)
----------------------------------------
Diamondblade, Cartographer, Crimson Tide.
from Midnight.
Dear sir or madam can you read my book, it took me years to write, will you take a look?

Posted by Rubby at Jun 17, 2004 2:58:46 PM
Re: /Me
54x wrote: 

This would also allow us to have:

"Diamondblade sticks out his tongue"


You'll stick out a tongue and like it, dagnabit!

Posted by Mercano at Jun 17, 2004 2:59:30 PM
Re: /Me
Aye, but /cr /me does work the way you expect: "Mercano does something" appears in crew chat. The blue color would be enough to signify its still officer chat, so long as someone changes the color of royalty chat so they no longer match. A slightly different color for officer vs. crew chat could be nice too, as some people will miss "officer chats" and start talking about the greenies in regular crew chat or something.

My two poe.
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Mercano, in need of a new .sig

Posted by 54x at Jun 17, 2004 3:05:38 PM
Re: /Me
 
The blue color would be enough to signify its still officer chat, so long as someone changes the color of royalty chat so they no longer match


I've asked for this before, too. It'd be nice to have a chat "shape" for officer chat, and a distinct colour to go along with that shape for royalty chat and blad broadcast, which should be square.

For the shape I was thinking angular, as in < >. ANd for the colour for /royalty and /fb, I was thinking yellow, with the crew chat shape for /royalty, and the square announcement shape for /fb.
----------------------------------------
Diamondblade, Cartographer, Crimson Tide.
from Midnight.
Dear sir or madam can you read my book, it took me years to write, will you take a look?

Posted by wnorman at Jun 17, 2004 11:06:03 PM
Re: /Me
I always figured it could be reworded to say:

Flag Officer Shark says "ahoy"

which would also allow for

/fo /em jumps up and down like an idiot

(Flag Officer Shark jumps up and down like an idiot)

Frankly, the wording of "Shark flag officer chats ..." has always bothered me. It just doesn't make sense.
----------------------------------------
Shark
Captain of Ransack Marauders
Prince and Admiral of Silver Dawn

[size=9]Greenie says, "are you a rael shark/"

Posted by 54x at Jun 17, 2004 11:19:28 PM
Re: /Me
Grammatically, you can't actually Flag officer chat, but you can Flag-officer-chat. I like Shark's idea best so far, to be honest :)
----------------------------------------
Diamondblade, Cartographer, Crimson Tide.
from Midnight.
Dear sir or madam can you read my book, it took me years to write, will you take a look?

Posted by bokodasu at Jun 18, 2004 12:32:20 AM
Re: /Me
54x wrote: 
Grammatically, you can't actually Flag officer chat, but you can Flag-officer-chat. I like Shark's idea best so far, to be honest :)


No, see, it's "Flag Officer Shark" who's chatting. And then you could have "Crewmate Tomyris says 'Ahoy!'", which I think sounds kind of friendly.
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[size=9]Tomyris, Cult of the Red Mantis, Looterati
Bonnie, Octafish Dream, Viridian

Posted by Lallaria at Jun 18, 2004 1:40:20 AM
Re: /Me
And that would prevent some booches between /crew and /o

Officer Lallaria says, "this cabin person is really annoying"
Crewmate Rubby says, "what's up cabin person, I'm #1!"
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Lallaria
[size=10]Retired

Posted by Mercano at Jun 18, 2004 4:26:33 AM
Re: /Me
54x wrote: 
 
The blue color would be enough to signify its still officer chat, so long as someone changes the color of royalty chat so they no longer match


I've asked for this before, too. It'd be nice to have a chat "shape" for officer chat, and a distinct colour to go along with that shape for royalty chat and blad broadcast, which should be square.

For the shape I was thinking angular, as in < >. ANd for the colour for /royalty and /fb, I was thinking yellow, with the crew chat shape for /royalty, and the square announcement shape for /fb.

Yellow squares are allready used for game-related messages, like Going aboard, You are now in persuite of the 'Brigand Ship,' and such. I was thinking about a purple somewhere inbetween jobbing pink and flag navy, being royalty and all. Another shape idea: sorta crown edges at either end: \^Royalty chat stuff ^/. Flag stuff should get some wavy flag look, but thats been used for crew chat longer. Mabey Dimondblades <flag officer chat> for one and >Flag broadcast< for the other?

I just know so many people care about the shape of royalty chat boxes. ;)

Lallaria wrote: 
And that would prevent some booches between /crew and /o

Officer Lallaria says, "this cabin person is really annoying"
Crewmate Rubby says, "what's up cabin person, I'm #1!"


As an added bonus, it would aslo make things a little clearer in chatlogs latter.
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Mercano, in need of a new .sig

Posted by 54x at Jun 18, 2004 5:16:19 AM
Re: /Me
The broadcast squares at the moment are kinda tan. I'm thinking yellow as in the YPP cloth colour, not that sorta sedate thing that you get for crew-members logging on sorta thing.

 
No, see, it's "Flag Officer Shark" who's chatting. And then you could have "Crewmate Tomyris says 'Ahoy!'", which I think sounds kind of friendly.


Oh yes, I wasn't saying that that's not EVEN BETTER, but I was saying that it's actually incorrect to have Flag officer chats. It's not a phrase. But Flag-officer-chats works, although VERY unelegantly.

Not that I feel the devs did a bit job of it though. They came up with a pretty elegant solution for a first try that wasn't allowed to use gender distinctions.
----------------------------------------
Diamondblade, Cartographer, Crimson Tide.
from Midnight.
Dear sir or madam can you read my book, it took me years to write, will you take a look?

Posted by adramolek at Jun 18, 2004 6:32:01 AM
Re: /Me
54x wrote: 
They came up with a pretty elegant solution for a first try that wasn't allowed to use gender distinctions.

Wait, they are purposefully avoiding gender distinctions in chat? But... but.... what about the window when you create a pirate that lets you pick your gender?
----------------------------------------
The List: Where good suggestions go when they die.
More swords now thx.
CLICKY -> CLICK HERE TO CLAIM YOUR 100000 POE PRIZE! <- CLICKY
Avatar by KingPriam! ^.^

Posted by 54x at Jun 19, 2004 11:05:24 AM
Re: /Me
They're avoiding it because it's hard/not rewarding enough to code, not because of sexism or anything :)

Okay, anyway, here's a nice graphic example of what I was thinking. It could easily be combined with Shark's idea, replacing the "X chats," with "Flag officer X chats/Royalty X chats/Royalty X broadcasts/Officer X chats," and so on- which is probably wise, as this adds in redundancy for anyone who is colourblind enough not to be able to tell between the chat colours.



The bright yellow modes are "royalty" ones. So the bright yellow square mode is /fbroadcast. Then, the angular modes are restricted modes- this means /officer, /fofficer, and possibly /royalty, although I included the existing method there, too. (does that one abbreviate? /r? /ro?) To facilitate the emote, the angular mode actually changes shape. In this case, it might actually make more sense to have them inverted around, as the one I've currently got listed for chat looks a lot like the emote graphic, but that doesn't matter so much.

Problems: We'd have to learn a new shape for the restricted modes.
We'd have to learn a new colour.
We'd have to get used to flag broadcasts looking square, like normal broadcasts.
There's still no way to emote in a /tell.
----------------------------------------
Diamondblade, Cartographer, Crimson Tide.
from Midnight.
Dear sir or madam can you read my book, it took me years to write, will you take a look?

Posted by WhoIsYou at Jun 19, 2004 11:16:16 AM
Re: /Me
My eyesite is bad enough as it is. That yellow is painful.
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WhoIsYou
- Scurviest dog in the sea (Could ye spare an orange?)

Posted by 54x at Jun 19, 2004 11:24:20 AM
Re: /Me
It can be a pale pink for all I care, but I do think we need the extra colour.
----------------------------------------
Diamondblade, Cartographer, Crimson Tide.
from Midnight.
Dear sir or madam can you read my book, it took me years to write, will you take a look?

Posted by wnorman at Jun 19, 2004 12:05:23 PM
Re: /Me
Diamondblade's ideas sound good to me. I like having multiple methods. Each channels should have clear distintions in as many ways as possible, while also being somehow grouped by commonality (crew, flag, etc). This seems to accomplish that - and would be really clear if combined with my title/name says suggestion.


54x wrote: 
There's still no way to emote in a /tell.


Maybe take the "tell" part out of the display-

/tell Shark hi
Diamondblade privately says "Hi"


/tell Shark /em waves
Diamondblade privately waves 

----------------------------------------
Shark
Captain of Ransack Marauders
Prince and Admiral of Silver Dawn

[size=9]Greenie says, "are you a rael shark/"

Posted by Inuki at Jun 19, 2004 12:48:21 PM
Re: /Me
I've seen crewmates confused a lot when I used /o to talk about a jobber - I got a few tells saying "You know he can see /crew, right?" I'm all for changing colors and making the different channels more distinctive than they are. (On that note, why are outgoing and incoming tells different colors and edgings? Strikes me as odd.)


As for tells... The chat system here is very similar to that of most MU*s that I've tried. One MUSH in particular had a very nice way of phrasing pages, their equivalent to tells, that allowed emotes. Example conversation:

You paged Soandso with 'hi!'
Soandso pages: Hey!
From afar, Soandso waves
Long distance to Soandso: Inuki grins

Converting to PP vocabulary wouldn't be hard - just replace "page" with "tell." The emote phrasing could stay the same.

Or this, from the same system - a whisper. (Private to someone in the same room, but with others able to see you're communicating.)

You whisper, "Hey" to Soandso.
Soandso whispers: Hi there
Soandso senses: Inuki smiles
You sense: Soandso grins

Poor phrasing for the first part, but using "senses" for the private emotes is another way that might work. Both possibilities suffer from not having the person doing the action first in the case of an emote, but both would allow emotes in tells.

The channel system has always seemed very MU*-like to me, so I guess it's natural that I'd think of ways I've seen them work around the problem.
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Now in a special Hunter flavor.

Posted by 54x at Jun 19, 2004 2:56:21 PM
Re: /Me
wnorman wrote: 
Diamondblade's ideas sound good to me. I like having multiple methods. Each channels should have clear distintions in as many ways as possible, while also being somehow grouped by commonality (crew, flag, etc). This seems to accomplish that - and would be really clear if combined with my title/name says suggestion.


54x wrote: 
There's still no way to emote in a /tell.


Maybe take the "tell" part out of the display-

/tell Shark hi
Diamondblade privately says "Hi"


/tell Shark /em waves
Diamondblade privately waves 


I'm thinking more along the lines of:

/te Shark Hiya!
"Diamondblade says to you: Hiya!"

/te Shark /me grins
"Diamondblade grins to you"

This seems like natural language to me, AND it serves our needs for emoting.
----------------------------------------
Diamondblade, Cartographer, Crimson Tide.
from Midnight.
Dear sir or madam can you read my book, it took me years to write, will you take a look?

Posted by Leeksoup at Jun 19, 2004 3:24:37 PM
Re: /Me
Mercano wrote: 
...My two poe.


Ooo! Two whole poe!

/em dives on the ground and grabs the two poe
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-Scylira, mostly retired
ponytailguy wrote: 
Yarr, me harties, let me go grab my knitting needles!

Math problems? Call 1-800-[(10x)(13i)^2]-[sin(xy)/2.362x].

Posted by 54x at Jun 20, 2004 3:53:42 PM
Re: /Me
You could probably apply an image-shift for tell emoting too:



I dropped the "to you" because it doesn't work with long description/actions.
----------------------------------------
Diamondblade, Cartographer, Crimson Tide.
from Midnight.
Dear sir or madam can you read my book, it took me years to write, will you take a look?

Posted by bokodasu at Jun 20, 2004 11:23:30 PM
Re: /Me
54x wrote: 
Oh yes, I wasn't saying that that's not EVEN BETTER, but I was saying that it's actually incorrect to have Flag officer chats. It's not a phrase. But Flag-officer-chats works, although VERY unelegantly.


And I'm saying that it is correct. He's not "Flag officer chatting", he's a Flag officer who is chatting. It would be prepending the chat with a title, not the name of the channel. (Although the channel is being indicated by the title of the people using it.)

If I wrote "Captain Squid says, 'Ahoy!'", would you be unhappy because someone can't Captain Squid say?

[/pedantry]
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[size=9]Tomyris, Cult of the Red Mantis, Looterati
Bonnie, Octafish Dream, Viridian

Posted by 54x at Jun 21, 2004 12:14:26 AM
Re: /Me
Errr... that wasn't what I was talking about at all. I was saying that it's VERY clumsy to have a category-action word, but it's probably doable.

And no, your example doesn't make any sense because it's a different thing. I don't Flag-officer-diamondblade-chat either. Captain-chat makes a lot more sense than Captain Squid-chat, or Captain chat, but again, Captain Squid chats is the best of all options :D
----------------------------------------
Diamondblade, Cartographer, Crimson Tide.
from Midnight.
Dear sir or madam can you read my book, it took me years to write, will you take a look?

Posted by wnorman at Jun 21, 2004 1:08:36 AM
Re: /Me
54x wrote: 


I dropped the "to you" because it doesn't work with long description/actions.


Yeah, I originally considered adding "to you" to the end, but didn't think it would really work.

I don't think using the term "emotes" really works either though...

I still like "privately," but there may be a better solution.
----------------------------------------
Shark
Captain of Ransack Marauders
Prince and Admiral of Silver Dawn

[size=9]Greenie says, "are you a rael shark/"

Posted by 54x at Jun 21, 2004 2:38:05 AM
Re: /Me
Okay, let's take an extreme example though:

*Diamondblade burns down your house and all your possessions. privately.

See anything wrong? ;) It misses in the same way that "to you" does. I'm actually tempted to just drop it and suggest looking like a fancy-tell-graphic emote instead :) But if there's to be a text que, it'd have to be something that works in a verb... or, perhaps:

Privately, you told Shark that Diamondblade ruins your fun.

Problem with this?

Privately, you told Shark that Diamondblade ruins your fun.

:/

Even dropping the privately is rather unwieldy, but I suppose it'd look fine, it's just because my name is long:

You told Shark that Diamondblade 's name is too long.
----------------------------------------
Diamondblade, Cartographer, Crimson Tide.
from Midnight.
Dear sir or madam can you read my book, it took me years to write, will you take a look?

Posted by Orac at Jun 23, 2004 10:04:30 PM
Re: /Me
Out of what's been discussed so far, both gramatically and in terms of a logical user interface, I'm in favour of:

/speak /emote says, "Hello"
Sparrowhawk says, "Hello"

/crew /emote says, "Hello"
Crewmate Sparrowhawk says, "Hello"

/jcrew /emote says, "Hello"
Jobber Sparrowhawk says, "Hello"

/officer /emote says, "Hello"
Officer Sparrowhawk says, "Hello"

/royalty /emote says, "Hello"
Royalty Sparrowhawk says, "Hello"
- or maybe -
Co-royal Sparrowhawk says, "Hello"

/fofficer /emote says, "Hello"
Flag Officer Sparrowhawk says, "Hello"

/tell Cleaver /emote says "Hello"
To Cleaver, Sparrowhawk says "Hello" - (to Sparrowhawk's screen) -
Privately, Sparrowhawk says "Hello" - (to Cleaver's screen) -
- or maybe -
To you, Sparrowhawk says "Hello" - (to Cleaver's screen) -

It ought to be possible to entirely duplicate speaking with an emotive construct; in the ancient textual world of multi-player games, speaking, thinking and so forth were limited versions of emoting. Shapes and colours are interesting possibilities, but I would not want them to be the only way I can tell what mode of address was used. As it is, this is currently the case for the two crew chats, and I'm not fond of that already.

It is always possible that flag royals or OMs would for some hideous reason want to be able to emote in brodcasts, so the following is up for shooting down as soon as possible:

/fbroadcast /emote broadcasts, "Hello"
Flag Royal Sparrowhawk broadcasts, "Hello"

/broadcast /emote broadcasts, "Hello"
Ocean Master Sparrowhawk broadcasts, "Hello"

However, I'm emphatically against extending this to shouts, ponders and the like, as they should be alternative expressions to speaking in the same way that emote is used. It does follow, though, that I would accept these as sub-commands - by way of example:

/crew /shout Hello
Crewmate Sparrowhawk shouts, "Hello"
- in appropriately large and spiky text -

Though on reflection, shouting is already annoying enough on islands to seriously consider not allowing it in /jcrew or /tell at any price:

/tell Cleaver /shout Wake up and answer me IMMEDIATELY!
Privately, Sparrowhawk shouts "Wake up and answer me IMMEDIATELY!"
- again, in appropriately large and spiky text -
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[size=9]Those that know the UK TV series Blake's 7 know more about a number of my character traits than is good for me.

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