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Posted by rroberts at Feb 17, 2004 5:32:12 PM
Mis-telling
Has anyone else been caught out by this, ot ir it just me.......

I spend a bit of time having /tell conversations with people when I'm in a Sea Battle or whatever, and because it's a /tell, it's obviously private.

When the Sea Battle is over, and we've won (as inevitably happens!) and I want to continue the /tell conversation, the chat defaults back to /vessel instead, and I end up saying my private message to the crew, which is sometimes not ideal.

Could a fix be put in where the chat options DOESN'T default back to /vessel as soon as the battle is over??

/me doesn't like looking foolish in front of his crew!

Posted by ramirojr at Feb 17, 2004 5:44:26 PM
Re: Mis-telling
You could try using the chat commands: /tell, /crew, /jcrew, /fo, /o, etc. I think there is one for flag broadcast that I can't remember. Anyway, the chat tabs confuse me greatly so I avoid using them at all costs. The only time I must is when I am on a ship, normally a large one, and I want to talk to a chat circle on the ship rather than the whole ship. In this case, I need to use the "speak" chat tab instead of "vessel."
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My backpacking buddy wrote: 
Remember that time we went through the Hall o'Precedents, then refused t'do it again? That Summer were the best.


Posted by rroberts at Feb 17, 2004 5:53:02 PM
Re: Mis-telling
You miss my point sir.

When I am in a /tell conversation with someone in the midst of a Sea Battle, and the Sea Battle ends, it defaults automatically back to /vessel instead of staying on /tell.

Unless you want me to stay in /vessel and type /tell [whoever] every time, which is just time consuming, and a pain in the backside if I type a long message out using the /tell [whoever] command only to find that I've spelt the name wrong and it doesn't go anywhere.

/me booches spelling often!

Posted by xagoloth at Feb 17, 2004 5:55:43 PM
Re: Mis-telling
ramirojr wrote: 
You could try using the chat commands: /tell, /crew, /jcrew, /fo, /o, etc. I think there is one for flag broadcast that I can't remember. Anyway, the chat tabs confuse me greatly so I avoid using them at all costs. The only time I must is when I am on a ship, normally a large one, and I want to talk to a chat circle on the ship rather than the whole ship. In this case, I need to use the "speak" chat tab instead of "vessel."



I don't think you even addressed the posters concern here.

Getting back to the point, yes I have done it a few times. Don't if it would take priority right now, and if it does matter it would show up on a low rung of the list of things to do for the devs. They have far bigger things such as the colonization code to finish.

To be honest, recently i have been more irked by the vessel and speak chat defaults.
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JackSparrow
www.mashrur.com

Posted by ramirojr at Feb 17, 2004 6:06:17 PM
Re: Mis-telling
Ok, sorry, I thought my point was implied because I glossed over one key fact in my mind. You can press the "up" arrow to go to the last command you sent. So, if you had just sent a "/tell FRIEND," you can simply press up again and it will display "/tell FRIEND" again. It's a very slight bit more effort than a chat tab, but it helps to avoid very frequent mistells. It also gets you in the habit of knowing where you're sending messages all the time. I prefer it, anyway. And until something is fixed in a release, this is the best help I can offer.

I apologize for leaving out the super awesome "up" function cos I just figured it was implied since I've been using it for so long. And yes, I know, that's not very productive help, and it actually hurt the thread initially. In the future, I will try to be more complete. I hope I've cleared up any confusion...
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My backpacking buddy wrote: 
Remember that time we went through the Hall o'Precedents, then refused t'do it again? That Summer were the best.


Posted by aaaargh at Feb 17, 2004 6:22:06 PM
Re: Mis-telling
I find this to be an annoying problem as well. The strange speak/vessel thing is very frustrating as well as Jack points out (since it seems to allow you to speak to yourself on a ship).

I also think that the /tell command in conjunction with the up arrow is the way to go as described by ramirojr, not just because it eliminates ambiguity, but because it allows you to see more of what you are typing in that very narrow text field that you get while puzzling.


HappyPants

Posted by PotatoJones at Feb 17, 2004 7:06:42 PM
Re: Mis-telling
aaaargh wrote: 
(since it seems to allow you to speak to yourself on a ship).

Ye kin speak t'yerself on land, too, if yer the last person in a chat circle.

I think that chat system is pretty on top o'things, but we all make mistakes with the various chats, whether the pirate uses the buttons o'the /commands. I think it jest means ye need t'be careful with what ye say and when ye say it. If somethin yer /tellin is sensetive and/or embarrasin material, yer best chance t'avoid booches is t'jest watch out.

Though leavin the Tell button chosen instead o'turnin back t'Vessel (which is what the problem here is, lest I miusunderstood) would probably be among the few things that could probably be tweaked. If this only happens after a battle, it may be better if the selected choice simply stays chosen.
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Potato Jones: Steam-Powered, High-Flying

Posted by rroberts at Feb 17, 2004 7:09:10 PM
Re: Mis-telling
Exactly!

Posted by RedDog at Feb 17, 2004 7:17:15 PM
Re: Mis-telling
It has certainly caused problems for our crew in the past. We were having a private conversation about if we should make a crew member up to officer or not (they were doing exceedingly well in the sword fight at the time) and suddenly it was broadcast to the whole crew who then all wanted to be made up to senior officer. It was embarasing for all concerned. Maybe a fix could be squeezed in to the list somewhere, although I guess it would not be a high priority as it is more an anoyance than anything.

Regards Seasnake
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Captain of the Flying Tigers, King of The Patrician's Flag
Fortunatly the seasnake rarely bites humans.

11 years and still flying the flag.

Posted by wnorman at Feb 17, 2004 10:17:52 PM
Re: Mis-telling
This can certainly cause some awkward and funny situations - for example, once one of our officers blurted out some of her racy Valentine's Day plans after a fight. We all had a good laugh but she was quite embarassed.

I was actually going to start a topic on the vessel/speak issue, because it's caused a lot of confusion since the update was introduced. Not only because it's naturally confusing, but because it's a change from what everyone's used to. As people walk around the ship getting ready to deport or after finishing a run, they wander in and out of circles and their chatting is sporadic. It's almost a daily occurence that you're carrying on a conversation with someone only to realize they switched to speak and you can't hear them anymore. This is especially difficult with greens who haven't yet figured out the different types of chat.
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Shark
Captain of Ransack Marauders
Prince and Admiral of Silver Dawn

[size=9]Greenie says, "are you a rael shark/"

Posted by Cantatrix at Feb 17, 2004 11:24:43 PM
Re: Mis-telling
I really never understood why the speak/tell/vessel/crew chat should default to a particular thing when you move around. Keeping track of who you've been talking to is one thing, but if you can't remember who you want to talk to next on your own, you can't have much worth saying. But the vessel-to-speak defaulting is new, so it's certainly intentional. Can we get any insight from the devs or someone who wanted this feature?
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Sheer brilliance, delivered with crushing ineptitude.
Maye, Yo-Ho Yo-Yo

Posted by rroberts at Feb 17, 2004 11:28:50 PM
Re: Mis-telling
Cantatrix wrote: 
I really never understood why the speak/tell/vessel/crew chat should default to a particular thing when you move around.


Neither did I. That's what I mean, and I think most of the posters here understand my point.

/me is proud not to have had his topic booched yet.

Posted by atteSmythe at Feb 18, 2004 2:10:09 AM
Re: Mis-telling
The vessel/speak thing is so bad on a large ship that I usually end up using the / commands even for /vessel and /speak, just so I know I'm heard. I don't think I've used the dropdown menu since the first day.

atteSmythe,
who's filed a bug report or two on it not going back to the proper mode, as well
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Attesmythe receives loot: [Gauntlets of Social Responsibility]
Attesmythe receives loot: [Ring of Mandatory Selflessness]


Posted by homullus at Feb 18, 2004 2:23:38 AM
Re: Mis-telling
The idea is that it has to default to SOMETHING, because a few chat channels (/shout comes to mind) were too annoying to allow players to default to. The idea was that the more people you'd be reaching, the less considerate the default . . . so, no defaulting to shouting, or flag broadcasts, etc. Defaulting to vessel is better than defaulting to /crew. Yes, they probably could make it more complicated, or give you options.

Posted by rroberts at Feb 18, 2004 2:40:17 AM
Re: Mis-telling
But why should it default to ANYTHING in between screens?

As in the above example, if you are in a Sea Battle, doing /tell and then the Battle ends, it reverts back to /vessel. Surely in this instance, it doesn't need to change.

Unless I'm getting the wrong end of the stick about what you're saying Hom?

Posted by TheCosmicChz at Feb 18, 2004 2:48:53 AM
Re: Mis-telling
I think the vessel/speak was originally put in to help on larger ships to cut down the incessant and frequent vessel chatter. Although, it isn't effective at that, because most people are at duty stations, not lazing about on deck, and the prebattle chatter doesn't have people rushing to form chat circles so they all can say "Yarr!".

I would think that in the case of larger ships, it would be up to the ships officers to keep down (or not were they running a more chatty voyage), the chatter.

Vessel chat is also frequently polluted with conversations between a select few people, which the other X ammount of people don't really care to hear. I suppose the say would help people form their own conversations, but again, unless yer in dock people aren't forming chat circles.
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--Dcurd :
Not the cap'n of Dcurd's crew
Stick-wielder of questionable sanity-or something

Posted by atteSmythe at Feb 18, 2004 2:53:36 AM
Re: Mis-telling
We hold crew and diplomatic meetings on ship. The auto-speak has made this a bit easier, because now someone doesn't have to remember to change their chat mode via dropdown. By speaking in a circle rather than in vessel chat during meetings, you avoid accidental eavesdropping by someone who logs in and goes right to ship, or clicks the wrong ship at the dock interface.

atteSmythe,
who'd presumed that was the driving force behind the change
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Attesmythe receives loot: [Gauntlets of Social Responsibility]
Attesmythe receives loot: [Ring of Mandatory Selflessness]


Posted by billbasaur at Feb 18, 2004 2:57:07 AM
Re: Mis-telling
If you have typed /tell [user] [message] into any of the other speech modes, it will automatically /tell that user. After that, just hit the "up" arrow key, and the /tell [user] will come back. Do so after each message, and you won't have to worry about the problem.
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Dmitri

Posted by Squidbeard at Feb 18, 2004 3:39:34 AM
Re: Mis-telling
I've seen illustrations of a few times when the auto-switching of a chat channel is inconvenient (or embarrassing), but it seems that many are overlooking the routine times when the switch is very convenient.

When I come out of a sea battle, I like that my chat reverts to Vessel, so that I can join everyone in congratulations. When I enter a circle, the switch to Speak is lovely.

The problem is that the useful convenient switches are invisible, or at least easily overlooked, whereas a mistell usually sticks with you for a while.

I've had equally embarrassing situations come up because I was hitting up-arrow in a puzzle when we came to a nav point. It's caused me to send inappropriate notes to a previous target any number of times (especially bad when the command that comes up is /foff). Yet you don't see me advocating for the removal of the up-arrow shortcut, because most of the time it's a blessing. I this as a similar situation.
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Squid
High Priest, Cult of the Red Mantis

Posted by atteSmythe at Feb 18, 2004 3:42:17 AM
Re: Mis-telling
/fb You know what, FlagmateBeard is a real barrlestopper.

Yeah, that'd suck. Yeah, that's why I always double-check the result of an uparrow.

atteSmythe,
who occassionally mistells, but hasn't done it for anything stunningly important yet
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Attesmythe receives loot: [Gauntlets of Social Responsibility]
Attesmythe receives loot: [Ring of Mandatory Selflessness]


Posted by dr4b at Feb 18, 2004 3:45:05 AM
Re: Mis-telling
I always use /tell explicitly for tells. So I don't have the vessel problem there.

However, the vessel/speak... oh god, this is CRAZY annoying lately. The problem is that once it switches to speak, it doesn't ever seem to want to switch back for me. I've actually started trying to avoid getting near anyone on a boat, because if I do, I'll be in speak-mode and not vessel and nobody will hear me. And then some NPP will come up and I'll end up in a chat circle with them and speak gets flipped again and...

I really liked it better before. Or, maybe -- could it just be the default on larger ships? Like just the Large size category? Even a war brig is small enough in my opinion that I'd rather hear everyone than realize everyone's having a conversation in a chat circle on the upper decks while I'm still sitting downstairs or whatever.
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Janthina, proprietor of Turban Outfitters on Jorvik.
Deadly, when I gather materials
Never engage any less than Imperials.


Posted by Cantatrix at Feb 18, 2004 3:50:02 AM
Re: Mis-telling
atteSmythe wrote: 
We hold crew and diplomatic meetings on ship. The auto-speak has made this a bit easier, because now someone doesn't have to remember to change their chat mode via dropdown. By speaking in a circle rather than in vessel chat during meetings, you avoid accidental eavesdropping by someone who logs in and goes right to ship, or clicks the wrong ship at the dock interface.

Well, yeah, but if you're already making efforts at privacy, is it that much harder to remember your circle chat? (I think if I can consistently remember something, it must not be that bad-- heck, I mostly use the tabs so I don't have to try and remember my text commands.)
When you're trying to maneuver around a crowded ship and keep jumping through circles, it can get aggravating. As does trying to hold a private conversation while puzzling, being pulled out for battle, and suddenly addressing the ship mid-sentence.
Of course, on both sides, it's a matter of convenience more than anything; both those aggravating examples are things we now know to look out for and work around. I'm just surprised, and not sure I agree, that the inconvenience falls more heavily on the chat-defaulting side.
(I can see some poor officer forgetting to change chat himself and yelling "Teams of three!" at individual people randomly. Still, it's not too hard to glance down and see whether you've got the little boat-shaped tab on; I'm less comfortable with things that up and decide to change themselves while I'm using them.)
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Sheer brilliance, delivered with crushing ineptitude.
Maye, Yo-Ho Yo-Yo

Posted by atteSmythe at Feb 18, 2004 3:52:09 AM
Re: Mis-telling
Oh, I wasn't trying to make an argument for why it's a good thing. That's just my impression of why the change was made in the first place. I was suprised to see it, but before it was put in, it's amazing how many people didn't even know that you could /speak.

atteSmythe,
who should start quoting who he's replying to, or being more verbose, or something
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Attesmythe receives loot: [Gauntlets of Social Responsibility]
Attesmythe receives loot: [Ring of Mandatory Selflessness]


Posted by kozmic at Feb 18, 2004 4:32:01 AM
Re: Mis-telling
I've just gotten into the habit of leaving my chat thing on the regular speak option and typing specifically what kind of chat I want to do. If I'm on the docks and I want to talk to my crew, I type /crew, that way I can have conversations in crew, by /tell, and in the chat circle without having a lot of mistells.

As for it reverting to vessel chat... that's horrendously annoying and I just try to remember to switch it back to whatever I had it with to begin with, but there are occcasional mistells.
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[size=10]Kozmic- that one person in the Far Too Jolly Rogers

Jellybeanz- that other person in the Far Too Jolly Rogers

Hugglebear- member of XOXOXO Snuggle Pirates

Posted by 54x at Feb 18, 2004 5:58:07 AM
Re: Mis-telling
I stick with my request for F-key "chatlocks". So if you press F12, it locks you in say until you press it again or send your message. Press F1, you're in crew chat. F2 is officer chat, F3 is tell, F4 is flagofficer, F5 is vessel, F6 is emote, F7 is think, F8 is shout, F9 is flag broadcast... That sort of thing. This way, as long as you hit the right key, there's no chance of chatbooch. Also, when sending tells, up and down should cycle through recent names that you've sent a tell or recieved one from.
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Diamondblade, Cartographer, Crimson Tide.
from Midnight.
Dear sir or madam can you read my book, it took me years to write, will you take a look?

Posted by ramirojr at Feb 18, 2004 7:43:16 AM
Re: Mis-telling
54x wrote: 
Also, when sending tells, up and down should cycle through recent names that you've sent a tell or recieved one from.


They do. :)
----------------------------------------
My backpacking buddy wrote: 
Remember that time we went through the Hall o'Precedents, then refused t'do it again? That Summer were the best.


Posted by 54x at Feb 18, 2004 7:49:51 AM
Re: Mis-telling
Don't be a silly. I was talking about with reference to my f-key suggestion.

/me hands ramirojr a dunce hat
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Diamondblade, Cartographer, Crimson Tide.
from Midnight.
Dear sir or madam can you read my book, it took me years to write, will you take a look?

Posted by ramirojr at Feb 18, 2004 12:20:09 PM
Re: Mis-telling
Aww, I'm stupid :(
----------------------------------------
My backpacking buddy wrote: 
Remember that time we went through the Hall o'Precedents, then refused t'do it again? That Summer were the best.


Posted by atteSmythe at Feb 18, 2004 1:03:55 PM
Re: Mis-telling
:)

I hope we were wrong about you, ramiro. You just might turn out OK yet.

atteSmythe,
feeling all fluffy
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Attesmythe receives loot: [Gauntlets of Social Responsibility]
Attesmythe receives loot: [Ring of Mandatory Selflessness]


Posted by ramirojr at Feb 18, 2004 1:24:08 PM
Re: Mis-telling
Nah. I mean, I'll be okay on the OUTSIDE, but inside, I'll still be a harsh, nasty, troubled person.

And who knows, maybe one day I'll reveal my true identity.... oooooooooooo
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My backpacking buddy wrote: 
Remember that time we went through the Hall o'Precedents, then refused t'do it again? That Summer were the best.


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