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Posted by Syntinel at Jul 16, 2018 6:22:12 PM
Large Island Housing & Building Limits
Hello Obsidian Ocean,

I would like to start of by saying that with the release of Melanaster Island, there will be some major shifts in the economy and the dynamics of player owned islands on this ocean. To date the major boon for a flag holding an island has been access to a Shipyard Shoppe. A large island presents the opportunity to finally have a fully equipped island that mirrors the functionality of the other strongholds.

However, building all 7 bazaar types now leaves the island at 7/10 shoppes. To my dismay, a petition to the OMs clarified that there is not a shoppe allowance for housing. This means that unlike the cap for mediums being raised from 5 to 6 when a housing building is placed, the hard limit of 10 still stands. This creates an additional issue not present on other oceans, the main draw for blockading on this ocean is the ability for a winning flag to raze the previous flag's shoppes and build new ones.

Bazaars cannot be demolished if a player owns a stall in them, and houses also cannot be demolished if a player has already purchased a home there. With the current 10 shoppe limit, and no free housing slots, there is the potential for either an island with no housing (not desirable), or a gridlocked large with 7 bazaars, 1-3 types of housing and limited or non existent potential for shoppes that can change hands with blockading. I hope that with some discussion here, a proper solution can be reached to ensure dark seas mechanics remain in effect, and that blockading on this ocean will always yield a reward to the winner.
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DarkCocoa of Obsidian and Meridian
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Posted by wrs1864b at Jul 16, 2018 6:47:20 PM
Re: Large Island Housing & Building Limits
Uh, huh. I guess I thought that the "10 shop" limit was that there could only be 10 shops. Other types of buildings were not limited. I kind of expected as many housing types as practical. If this is really a building limit, not a shop limit, I hope it gets changed.
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Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent.

Posted by joshuawhelan at Jul 16, 2018 6:56:12 PM
Re: Large Island Housing & Building Limits
Building too much housing will kill off any activity on Loggerhead & Magpie. Similarly, having space for a maximum of 3 shoppes for the island-holding flag on a large island seems perfectly reasonable. Anything more would be way too big of an advantage.

 
I hope that with some discussion here, a proper solution can be reached to ensure dark seas mechanics remain in effect, and that blockading on this ocean will always yield a reward to the winner.


The motivation to blockade an island shouldn't just be to build shoppes. Your entire post appears to be underlined by the fact that you feel owning an island isn't rewarding enough. Should GH really implement changes based on this alone? I'd be interested to hear what you feel the wider impact on things like the ocean's economy would be. You've only mentioned the impact on yourself.
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Posted by Monliz at Jul 16, 2018 7:41:35 PM
Re: Large Island Housing & Building Limits
Given that medium islands have a 1 housing unit option that is not included in the colonization building limit, it would make sense that larges also have that availability. Realistically, when a flag builds on an island now, more than likely one of the 3 units left would be a shipyard. Shipyards not only build ships but provide purchasable charts that are needed to get to other islands in the vicinity. That leaves 2 units left and housing has not been covered. I think the ocean population would love to see a gallery housing option so that would leave just one type of housing left in the 10 limit scheme of things. Just makes sense a large would have at least ONE free housing option.
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Monlizzy
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Posted by Syntinel at Jul 16, 2018 8:00:25 PM
Re: Large Island Housing & Building Limits
 
The motivation to blockade an island shouldn't just be to build shoppes. Your entire post appears to be underlined by the fact that you feel owning an island isn't rewarding enough.


Owning an island is of course a reward in and of itself, but one of the key mechanics advertised in dark seas is the ability to demolish a building when you take an island and build your own industry. I want to see this mechanic stay in effect and not be hedged out by the need for player housing. I likewise don't think a flag should have more than 2-3 shoppes on any given island, as that would be a bad balance of player accessible things IE stalls and housing, and economic powerhouses for the controlling flag.
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DarkCocoa of Obsidian and Meridian
Prince of Consider it Sunk
Captain of Message in a Bottle

Posted by Thunderbird at Jul 16, 2018 8:15:16 PM
Re: Large Island Housing & Building Limits
The phrasing of the initial Obsidian release notes made it sound like only shoppes counted toward the limit of 10. The notes talking about limits on the official docs for classic oceans say "bazaars, shoppes and housing" (though I note the Medium spec is slightly inaccurate).

At least there's not much of a point in building shacks, since the Ringer islands already have them, and PV is fixed as the starter island.
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Posted by Vulturas at Jul 17, 2018 1:29:25 AM
Re: Large Island Housing & Building Limits
I have to agree.

If the limit isn't increased, we'll have an island which we'll have to blockade for over name only, because realistically Melanaster will have 7 bazaars, 2 housing, and that leaves just ONE spot for a large shoppe.

We have Shacks (Multiple islands), Pirate Halls (Faction islands), Cottage (Magpie), Townhouse (Loggerhead), Villa (Loggerhead). So we're missing Cabins, Bungalows, Row Houses, Manors, Mansions, Estates, Galleries.

If we go logically, big islands will probably have 7 bazaars, 1 house and 2 large shoppe, that if the governing flag decides it even wants housing and 7 base bazaars and a house to begin with.

In the first case, we will need 6 large island launches to have one of each house. If we get 2 free housing spots, we can have all the possible housing in 3 large islands.

Posted by Filthyjake at Jul 17, 2018 3:22:53 AM
Re: Large Island Housing & Building Limits
The only Shop that is really needed is a Ship Yard the rest are really over kill as everything else (to the best of my knowledge can be built in stalls).

Side Note: This is why shutting down stalls would be a good idea too even if they don't dust.

Fairly simple to bypass the storage issues with a Floating storage unit, or have multiple stalls for different products ex IM for balls one for swords.

One of the biggest improvements in the game in my opinion is the building limits on the islands. Yes it adds a twist and makes things a bit harder but the ocean isn't so large that items can't be sailed in, creating a actual trade market. I am guessing most islands will be player controlled with few that are uninhabitable by this time next year.
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Posted by Pikapyah at Jul 17, 2018 3:57:25 AM
Re: Large Island Housing & Building Limits
7 bazaars, 1 gallery, 2 Spots u can fill as you like.

7 bazaars so you don't piss off anyone and everyone will be happy.

1 gallery because even if you can't afford one, everyone in the game will still benefit from it with free whisks.

2 free spots for w/e your flag feels like doing. In my eyes any shop except a SY is useless. If you don't feel like a SY is something CIS can use, u can still make one and open it up for the ocean. Give the deed straight to winner if you happen to lose the island.
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Posted by wrs1864b at Jul 17, 2018 6:10:15 AM
Re: Large Island Housing & Building Limits
 
However, building all 7 bazaar types now leaves the island at 7/10 shoppes. To my dismay, a petition to the OMs clarified that there is not a shoppe allowance for housing. This means that unlike the cap for mediums being raised from 5 to 6 when a housing building is placed, the hard limit of 10 still stands. This creates an additional issue not present on other oceans, the main draw for blockading on this ocean is the ability for a winning flag to raze the previous flag's shoppes and build new ones.

I think this is the key paragraph from the OP and I think it is very ambiguous. What the OP thinks it means may be VERY different than what the OM was trying to say. Without the original petition, it is really hard to say.

I really can't make sense of what a "shoppe allowance for housing" means. Of course, there is no allowances for building more shops if you build more houses, they are different types of buildings. The limit on only 10 shops isn't going to be raised if you build 10 houses, because houses don't have anything to do with shops. Medium islands are quirky because housing was added later, so the *building* limit on medium islands is raised by one if housing is built.

See the yppedia article Island
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Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent.

Posted by Cronus at Jul 17, 2018 6:44:23 AM
Re: Large Island Housing & Building Limits
Clarification: There is a limit of 10 shoppes. Buildings that are not shoppes work the same as classic oceans regarding restrictions. Thus, bazaar buildings and housing do not count towards the limit of 10.
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Posted by Pasteyman at Jul 17, 2018 11:29:30 AM
Re: Large Island Housing & Building Limits
 
Clarification: There is a limit of 10 shoppes. Buildings that are not shoppes work the same as classic oceans regarding restrictions. Thus, bazaar buildings and housing do not count towards the limit of 10.


papa bless
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Posted by Syntinel at Jul 17, 2018 12:18:24 PM
Re: Large Island Housing & Building Limits
Thank you for the clarification Cronus, between the wiki and other literature it was hard to work out the meaning of the new rules. Im almost surprised the limit is as high as 10.
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DarkCocoa of Obsidian and Meridian
Prince of Consider it Sunk
Captain of Message in a Bottle


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