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Print at Jan 22, 2021 9:08:12 PM

Posted by taelac at May 26, 2012 1:10:57 PM
Apologies--this is out of order. I got caught up on the reading and then realize I'd forgotten to open the things I wanted to respond to in new tabs, so have had to go back and try to find them again.

Riku wrote: 
You're missing the most significant part of the analogy where the person going to the boss says "I don't have any evidence" and the boss says "What evidence do you have?".

Your analogy would work better as: "I have a strange feeling that this other employee is up to something." "Why?" "I just have a strange feeling." "That's baloney. Something is either giving you a strange feeling or you're making barnacle up to try to make trouble for another employee. Figure it out and tell me what it is, or you're the one who's getting written up."

SeastarX wrote: 
On MrBriney: The only thing that really puzzles me here is why he waited to give the explanation for the vote. If he'd just said 'I remember rogues trying to get new players on-side' that would've likely been perfectly sufficient, especially on Day 1. The delay makes it seem odder. My initial reaction to the actual justification was that I'm not sure I could see new player Firebolt, if a rogue, trying to 'Get the new guy on side, right' as pretty much the first thing she does. On further consideration, I suppose it's a possibility, but it still seems kinda unlikely and the apparent dismissal of the alternative option (an innocent new player just commenting on something she might be thinking about too) makes me a little twitchy. Watchlisting MrBriney for now.

That's a pretty good summation of where I ended up. Prosperity's comment about essentially random Day 1 votes in other venues is well-taken, and I probably would have given him a pass if he'd said it was a random vote, because I know that it is common elsewhere.

Setsusa wrote: 
Briney/Tae saga: Really Tae? I mean, really? You kept asking till he changed his answer to something you were satisfied with. Starting to seem like it's just the way you play, but man this whole situation seems overblown. Like I said, a bunch of you (us?) get upset over "pressure" votes or voting at all when really, a random vote gets things going. Ex: This game. Last game. Probably the game before that.

I kept asking until I got an answer to my question, then stopped asking, which, yes, is pretty much how I play, since information is half what the game turns on. I've pretty clearly stated that I'm not entirely satisfied with it, because there's not really any reason it couldn't have been said when he voted. Also, please note that I never claimed that I thought Mrbriney's vote had anything to do with pressure, and that I have been known to apply pressure votes myself, to varying degrees of success. I even tried to explain to Master the difference between a pressure vote and the type of vote Mrbriney placed. You seem to be conflating my response to Mrbriney and Master's response to Mrbriney in this comment.

Searmin wrote: 
An even better question would be, "how many arguments against rogues could have started on Day 1?"

More than usually are. And even a weak argument against a rogue on Day 1 means the rogues have to consider how to manage the attention, so it's useful to try, I think.

Lyaka wrote: 
Goats wrote: 
I know that riku is generally playing defense lawyer in many arguments made in the game, but this one seems off.

That's kind of a gut feeling right there, isn't it? The bit I just quoted is the beginning of Goats' post, and he goes on to talk about a few other things, but I find it significant that his opening argument is a gut-based suspicion on a player who defended gut-based votes.

The rest of that post goes on to explain what specifically about Riku's behavior Goats finds off. That's not a vote based on gut, it's based on an interpretation of actually cited evidence of actions Riku has actually taken in the thread. I'm curious why you chose to disregard the rest of the post in order to make this argument, since it falls to straw as soon as you look at the very next sentence.

I don't necessarily agree with the interpretation, because I don't really see a rogue Riku being his defense of either a fellow rogue or a player he's trying to use for FoI. Riku's pretty well hitched to Mrbriney at this point, and if either turns up rogue, it's likely to go badly for the other--something rogue Riku would have to know. I can see how Goats might come to a different conclusion than I have at this point, though. occurs to me that Riku hasn't really seemed to consider the possibility that Mrbriney could be a rogue, which could indicate a lack of uncertainty about Mrbriney's status. I'll have to think about that and read back over that exchange if I get a chance.

If nothing else, Mrbriney's vote has sparked quite a bit of discussion, about several different players and actions, so yay for an active Day 1. It promises to be an exciting game.
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