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McGarvery

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Poker Under a Microscope: Why it will NOT kill Malachite

Poker is a redistribution game. This is established.
No poe is created, it just changes hands.


People are afraid that poker will cause poe to move too quickly. This fear is UNFOUNDED.

Here's why.


1. LOW STAKES GAMES - High Skill Skew, But Too Low Impact

When people bet all in at a 2-poe table (200 a hand) this essentially generates a big SCALED risk factor. But in truth, you are not risking very much poe at all.

Each hand won with these all-in bets is worth at most 1800 net poe. Also, you must wait for a winning hand.

A better tactic is to play sharp poker. This can make several thousand per hour, because 2poe tables are notoriously filled with blithering idiots. But not MORE than that... because more money does not flow so quickly onto the poker table. This is not THAT much better than pillaging, and it demands either heavy luck or skill. Different traits, but traits the same.

In essence, although they are the loosest and perhaps most reliable poe source, 2 poe tables don't let you make poe fast enough to compete with jobbing unless you're both very skilled and very aggressive. And in such case, you can also just waste a lot of money.

2. MID STAKES GAMES - Less Skill Skew, more Luck
20 to 200 poe tables can see much more turnover in terms of poe. But in these games, the amount of poe gets to be significant - all ins can be 2 to 20k. Players stop being reckless and may start guarding stashes, hedging their bets and avoiding big risks. This does not prevent poor play, but although you can make 10-100k per hour, now you are facing players who are AFTER that higher rate. As you press up through 200poe to 2000poe tables, the easy money gets smaller and the hard money gets bigger. Your competitors are looking to clean you out...

... it becomes a toss of the dice as skill narrows between players.

Here you can see a couple dozen thousand come your way... or you can lose an entire week-or-two's work in one unlucky hand.
It's hard to force just a random game to pay out constantly.
And the player count is rapidly shrinking.

3. HIGH STAKES GAMES - High Return Rate, Small Player Base

Here, the much-heralded game-bending hands can take place. Hundreds of thousands of PoE changing hands in just one draw.

And how do you get admission?
You need hundreds of thousands of PoE and an iron stomach.

Only those already IN the upper echelons can risk it in the upper echelons. And be ready to face a true shark on the other side of the table. They will remember who you are - there won't be many.


For these reasons, poker is not going to kill the startup of Malachite.

A few lucky players will walk away with a new crew's fund. But generally it's hard to make big amounts unless you already HAD big amounts.

Less than 1% of the poker playing population will get rich quick, and that is no guarantee they will become a game changing force - since only about 1% of the pirates on the ocean have what it takes to lead a flag / captain a lethal crew. Multiply that by the 1% poker winners, and maybe one-hundredth of a percent will be affected.
(0.01%)

If Malachite had 10,000 players, maybe one would rise to power through poker alone.

The population sample is too low. Please, post your story of poker success and your huge winnings. Let's see just how far you get.

(Doubloon activity will have a significantly more concentrated impact. Orestes is funding a pay-to-win fleet as we speak, by buying up dubs and leaving. )
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[Edit 4 times, last edit by McGarvery at May 8, 2008 1:18:43 AM]
[May 8, 2008 1:10:56 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
McGarvery

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Re: Poker Under a Microscope: Why it will NOT kill Malachite

WHAR IS MAH POKAH GOD!?

I have yet to hear a single report of someone rising to the stars and becoming King of a Superflag because he got rich at poker.

Come on, let's hear your GREAT success story.
How much did YOU win?
... and how far did you get with it?
[May 27, 2008 1:09:57 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Mazus5



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Re: Poker Under a Microscope: Why it will NOT kill Malachite

Why texas holdem will kill the pirate game

Because classic pirates did not play texas holdem. It kills the feeling.

But whatever, I don't even play anymore - I'm just saying.
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Lock me up and throw away the key!
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Mazus5 at May 27, 2008 2:04:24 AM]
[May 27, 2008 2:03:37 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Grinfish

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Re: Poker Under a Microscope: Why it will NOT kill Malachite

McG, why didn't you just PM your argument to Astro and save us all the time? However, seeing as you did it...

Poker is not killing the game, though it is arresting it's development in pirate activities.

The only way poker has a negative effect on the rest of the game, is that it stops a lot of people bothering to play the rest of the game. It gives players a reason to jump off pillages early (once they make the entry fee for a table).

Solution : You can't play poker until you achieve Solid in EVERY other puzzle :D That way at least you know the player's tried everything, and actually done something for the ocean other than prop up the doub exchange <.< OH yeah, and lose the Free days. Pirate game, not freeplay online casino.
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Retired, No regrets.
Unretired, still No regrets.
Available in Cerulean and Obsidian flavours.

Briggs wrote: 
StuManchu puts the "sensual" back in "Nonconsensual"

[May 27, 2008 3:06:08 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
therapture

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Re: Poker Under a Microscope: Why it will NOT kill Malachite

 
Solution : You can't play poker until you achieve Solid in EVERY other puzzle :D

See, that'd be a great idea... except for the fact that a lot of people don't have the time to get Solid in every puzzle. It's a lot of time, really. A lot of patience, a lot of work (Because srsly, expecting people to get Solid Distilling is nonsense >.>). Plus, sometimes people don't like one puzzle, or another, and they shouldn't be forced to play aspects of the game that they DON'T like, just to be able to play the parts they DO like.

Not fair at all.
[May 27, 2008 3:10:56 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Grinfish

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Re: Poker Under a Microscope: Why it will NOT kill Malachite

 

See, that'd be a great idea... except for the fact that a lot of people don't have the time to get Solid in every puzzle. It's a lot of time, really. A lot of patience, a lot of work (Because srsly, expecting people to get Solid Distilling is nonsense >.>). Plus, sometimes people don't like one puzzle, or another, and they shouldn't be forced to play aspects of the game that they DON'T like, just to be able to play the parts they DO like.

Not fair at all.

I love it when my tongue-in-cheek suggestions get a bite XD

However we look at it, Poker (and likelt Hearts and Spades) is anachronistic, utterly out of theme, and has no valid contribution to piratey pursuits. It doesn't belong, yet currently it's one of the more accessible things to do relative to the games actually NEEDED to be played to maintain the Pirate game (twice as many free days as Labour puzzles).

Still, it's good for business, shame it detracts so much from the core values of Learn - improve - effort - PROFIT. I just hope Cleaver doesn't take all the investment capital and go all-in on 10-3 unsuited, as that's the example it sets >.<
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Whitewyvern. Distinctly Limey.
Retired, No regrets.
Unretired, still No regrets.
Available in Cerulean and Obsidian flavours.

Briggs wrote: 
StuManchu puts the "sensual" back in "Nonconsensual"

[May 27, 2008 4:12:48 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
nunny_45

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Re: Poker Under a Microscope: Why it will NOT kill Malachite

Ive seen an advertisment for YPP based on poker 0_o
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Nunny
[May 27, 2008 5:24:06 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
barrelmonkey

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Re: Poker Under a Microscope: Why it will NOT kill Malachite

I've gotten a couple friends into the game by showing them the poker. It's a valid option for playing the game and trying to get people to play the other parts of the game by removing it is just stupid. I can see the arguments for how the high-stakes poker influences the blockade scene too much, but complaining that people have fun playing it instead of the other parts of the game is just selfish.
[May 27, 2008 6:05:46 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
kenjennings

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Re: Poker Under a Microscope: Why it will NOT kill Malachite

This thread is wrong, sorry. I don't even know what the point of it is. It's not about rich poker tarts becoming rich monarchs. It's about rich monarchs becoming rich poker tarts.

Besides, you need more luck to play Russian Roulette 2-20 poe poker than later on where people play relatively more sensibly and you have relatively less praying that you don't get boned by a rag hand. Skill is irrelevant at the lowest tables when you have said Russian Roulette rather than real poker going on, or as real as Y!PP can make it.

Lastly, 200k poker isn't that small of a percentage of the poker table. At any given time, you'll see around 2 8-10 person tables of each type with smaller negligible tables of each time on the side. It may not be a perfect threeway slice (and certainly isn't at the present on Malachite), 200k poker occupies ~25-30% of the player base that is playing poker at any given peak hour time (which is almost all the time on Dub oceans).
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Phobia_

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Re: Poker Under a Microscope: Why it will NOT kill Malachite

 

3. HIGH STAKES GAMES - High Return Rate, Small Player Base

Here, the much-heralded game-bending hands can take place. Hundreds of thousands of PoE changing hands in just one draw.

And how do you get admission?
You need hundreds of thousands of PoE and an iron stomach.

Only those already IN the upper echelons can risk it in the upper echelons.

Though this may be true for those making millions, I've turned 2k into 250k in a few hours on sage, which could easily happen on malachite now that more people can afford the larger tables. Sure, this may not be a large enough amount to change much on an oceanwide scale, but if someone wasn't like me and continued playing poker, instead of blowing the 250k in a good 20 minutes, there's possibilities of people making millions.
However, you do have a point in that a large portion of the money on 20-200k tables on malachite likely came through people selling dubs.
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Atlan - Sage
[May 27, 2008 1:11:49 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Mr_Monkey_12

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Re: Poker Under a Microscope: Why it will NOT kill Malachite

 
WHAR IS MAH POKAH GOD!?

I have yet to hear a single report of someone rising to the stars and becoming King of a Superflag because he got rich at poker.

Come on, let's hear your GREAT success story.
How much did YOU win?
... and how far did you get with it?


Ever heard of Calais on Virdian?
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Anubis (Only comes in Malachite flavor)
Mrmonkey (Only comes in Hunter flavor)
 
If one writes a book about failer, and no one reads it, does it succeed?

Sorry if my spelling/grammar is bad/incorrect English isn't my first language.
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Ariel_mac

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Re: Poker Under a Microscope: Why it will NOT kill Malachite

 
 
WHAR IS MAH POKAH GOD!?

I have yet to hear a single report of someone rising to the stars and becoming King of a Superflag because he got rich at poker.

Come on, let's hear your GREAT success story.
How much did YOU win?
... and how far did you get with it?


Ever heard of Calais on Virdian?



Calais did get rich at poker and it funded his Terra blockade.
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~ Arielmac (all oceans except Atlantic)


Avatar by Therunt
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Ariel_mac at May 27, 2008 4:21:35 PM]
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BootHook

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Re: Poker Under a Microscope: Why it will NOT kill Malachite

 
 
 
WHAR IS MAH POKAH GOD!?

I have yet to hear a single report of someone rising to the stars and becoming King of a Superflag because he got rich at poker.

Come on, let's hear your GREAT success story.
How much did YOU win?
... and how far did you get with it?


Ever heard of Calais on Virdian?



Calais did get rich at poker and it funded his Terra blockade.


According to that wiki page, it seems like Calais was really rich long before poker was ever released.
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[May 27, 2008 5:28:27 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
lanndser

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Re: Poker Under a Microscope: Why it will NOT kill Malachite

And the Calais thing is really unfair, because he played when poker first came out. SOMEONE was bound to get lucky, while the other just blustered around used to real poker. And the page also says he made 3.5M, which could only buy 35frigs at 100k each(a low price), not to mention brigs, jobber pay, money you need to defend the island the week after, stock money, etc.
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Ship on Sage
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kenjennings

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Re: Poker Under a Microscope: Why it will NOT kill Malachite

You're forgetting that people weren't spoiled with stupid high blockade pay and that you didn't need 35 frigs to compete in a blockade two years ago. Also, Cal still competed with poker players even after people became aware of the differences between "real" poker and Y!PP poker. He wasn't just some guy who kinda knew what to do and cashed in on everyone else being clueless as to how to play.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by kenjennings at May 27, 2008 6:05:27 PM]
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lanndser

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Re: Poker Under a Microscope: Why it will NOT kill Malachite

Ok, that's fair. I'm just so used to the current states of blockading.
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Ship on Sage
[May 27, 2008 7:20:38 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
cmdrzoom

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Re: Poker Under a Microscope: Why it will NOT kill Malachite

Then you'd probably be absolutely boggled to know that once upon a time, people - hundreds of them - jobbed for no pay at all, but strictly out of flag loyalty.
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Shirato

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Re: Poker Under a Microscope: Why it will NOT kill Malachite

 
Then you'd probably be absolutely boggled to know that once upon a time, people - hundreds of them - jobbed for no pay at all, but strictly out of flag loyalty.


Wait. What now? They did that?

Silly people and their loyalty.


Anywho. Poker doesn't "ruin" the game. It just puts it into a state of dormancy for everyone else. I really do miss the time where all people did to waste hours was to pillage and puzzle. Now it's hard to fill larger vessels without spending a good amount of time to get good jobbers. Filling a ship on Malachite when most of the population is offline is a feeble attempt. Furthermore, many people load up doubloons to "move" to the new ocean, sell previously mentioned doubloons and starts playing poker. Oblivious to the infrastructure around them that needs to be established. At the start of an ocean, poker should be disabled, much like other aspects of the game. Blockading, trophies and so on.

Now Malachite just needs greenies so we can get this ocean started for real. Yes to higher doubloon prices!
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Finnigan Yppedia Profile
Finnigan on Viridian
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lanndser

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Re: Poker Under a Microscope: Why it will NOT kill Malachite

 
Then you'd probably be absolutely boggled to know that once upon a time, people - hundreds of them - jobbed for no pay at all, but strictly out of flag loyalty.


But…but…what if BTV was paying 1.5k a Segment?
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Ship on Sage
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imhappyfairy

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Re: Poker Under a Microscope: Why it will NOT kill Malachite

The same arguments put forward but the OP should be reasonably applied to other oceans. Unforunately they don't seem to work on the other oceans, so there is little chance of them working over here.

Just give it a few months til the 200k tables get going in full swing...
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Flyingbanana of Viridian and Malachite.
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GreenieFTB



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Re: Poker Under a Microscope: Why it will NOT kill Malachite

 
Poker is a redistribution game. This is established.
No poe is created, it just changes hands.


What about the people who buy dubloons with real money, for the sole purpose of using it in poker?
Poker IS an indirect PoE fountain..
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Vertftb on VirMeridian
Something in some crew
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barrelmonkey

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Re: Poker Under a Microscope: Why it will NOT kill Malachite

It's still not a PoE fountain, because someone else earned that PoE already and gave it to the doubloon buyer.
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ppwench



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Re: Poker Under a Microscope: Why it will NOT kill Malachite

 
 
Poker is a redistribution game. This is established.
No poe is created, it just changes hands.


What about the people who buy dubloons with real money, for the sole purpose of using it in poker?
Poker IS an indirect PoE fountain..
You're an idiot.
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kenjennings

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Re: Poker Under a Microscope: Why it will NOT kill Malachite

Mind offering more explanation than that instead of leaving us with the "I'm smarter than you and it's not worth my time to explain to you why" feeling?
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NelsonKizmet

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Re: Poker Under a Microscope: Why it will NOT kill Malachite

 
Mind offering more explanation than that instead of leaving us with the "I'm smarter than you and it's not worth my time to explain to you why" feeling?


You probably won't get anything useful from that poster. Here is an example of one of their previous works. Linky.
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Yesterday On Oceans
Large On Viridian

Goats wrote: 
If that was the case, Yesterday and I would be having a pillow fight in a pool full of chocolate pudding by now.

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TarnumTheRed

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Re: Poker Under a Microscope: Why it will NOT kill Malachite

 
 
Poker is a redistribution game. This is established.
No poe is created, it just changes hands.


What about the people who buy dubloons with real money, for the sole purpose of using it in poker?
Poker IS an indirect PoE fountain..


Purchasing Doubloons and then selling them on the exchange is not a PoE fountain. A PoE fountain is something that introduces PoE into the ocean that was not there before. This includes pillaging, Atlantis, Flotillas, selling fruit to ringer markets, and OM created tournaments. The lines you quoted by McGarvery are absolutely correct since the person selling doubloons is getting PoE from other players, not some magical source.
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Tarnum

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McGarvery

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Re: Poker Under a Microscope: Why it will NOT kill Malachite

 
The same arguments put forward but the OP should be reasonably applied to other oceans. Unforunately they don't seem to work on the other oceans, so there is little chance of them working over here.

Just give it a few months til the 200k tables get going in full swing...

It was that first few months that everyone was so paralyzed that poker would ruin.

Generally, once players HAVE a lot of money, then the money can move REALLY fast.
But obviously, the Malachite dry start has been a total BLAST and no one has become corruptively rich from poker.

Doubloon sales.. debatable.
But then we all got a lot of really good prices on doubloons in exchange, didn't we?

Money now, money later.
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xXPyro69Xx

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Re: Poker Under a Microscope: Why it will NOT kill Malachite

 
McG, why didn't you just PM your argument to Astro and save us all the time? However, seeing as you did it...




HA HA HA

You filled me with lulz .
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One does not need to have more than a passing knowledge of the history of Viridian and Hunter to see what could be. I assure you, I know more than you having not set foot on Hunter on a main in months.

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