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Whitefire

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Gunning Videos Reply to this Post
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Thanks to Peax for hosting the files.


Renowned Speed 11MB


Ultimate Speed 7.7MB


Top 10 Speed 5.6MB


A few things to point out:

Notice how I made large loops that covered all 4 cannons early on. The most important part of gunning is piece management, and loops make that much easier.


Notice how I was constantly replacing the arrows on the loop. This prevents the loop from being broken and your pieces flying everywhere.


Notice how the pieces will always take a right when they hit a wall.
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[Edit 3 times, last edit by Whitefire at Jul 3, 2004 10:57:07 AM]
[Jul 3, 2004 10:57:07 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
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And of course, as luck would have it, (Especially since I'm just trying to break ultimate), I am missing the codec to play these movies. What do I need?
[Jul 3, 2004 11:21:41 AM] Show Printable Version of Post   [Link]  Go to top 
54x

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Notice how I am thanking whitefire and peax for managing to do gunning videos and for generous hosting of an excellent resource for the community :)

EDIT: Most likely DivX, if you don't already have it installed. Almost all videos use DivX.

That's some very fast gunning in the top 10 there, whitefire :D
----------------------------------------
Diamondblade, Cartographer, Crimson Tide.
from Midnight.
Dear sir or madam can you read my book, it took me years to write, will you take a look?
[Jul 3, 2004 11:21:53 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.mjwhitehead.com/    raasike54    secondlight5454    32987700 [Link]  Go to top 
peax



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When I tried to play the videos I got an error. So I went looking for a right codec. If you're having problems playing the videos just install this codec and it should work.
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'Beauty is truth, truth beauty, that is all
Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.
(-Keats)
[Jul 3, 2004 11:46:13 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Whitefire

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They are .avi files. I chose that because most people have Window's Media Player installed. Then I remembered that a large portion of our users have Unix/Linux and use Real Player X_X. Head to Peax's link or download Winamp and it's appropriate plug-in.
[Jul 3, 2004 12:26:33 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
rantao81



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thank you so much for posting! now i have to practice!
[Jul 3, 2004 5:14:08 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
LongJohnGrey

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Whitefire wrote: 
They are .avi files. I chose that because most people have Window's Media Player installed. Then I remembered that a large portion of our users have Unix/Linux and use Real Player X_X. Head to Peax's link or download Winamp and it's appropriate plug-in.


.avi is just a container format. It says nothing about what is contained within it.

The codec question is about what is contained inside.
It can be Divx, Indio, MJpeg, and lots of others.
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Re: Market on Scurvy Reef:
Hypnos wrote: 
I didn't realize it was such a hot forage spot until I dropped it and three pirates showed up on the island in quick succession.
And it wasn't even 9 spaces from the arrow :-).
[Jul 3, 2004 5:53:47 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
basam



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Mac users can look here for MacOS X and MacOS 9 versions of the codec:
http://www.techsmith.com/download/ensharpendecoder.asp

Run the supplied installer. Quicktime will then load the movies normally.

Edit: Actually, it loads the first 2 normally. The Top 10 one seems to generate an error. Is this a bug in the Mac codec or in the movie?
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Basam/Johnbigbooty
[Jul 3, 2004 7:03:22 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
basam



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The first thing I noticed in the movie is that you use the "click and drag" method of placing the arrows instead of the "awsd" method (the a, w, d, and s keys will cause the arrow to point left, up, right, and down, then clicking places it.)

Is there a consensus among the best gunners that click-dragging is faster than key&clicking?
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Basam/Johnbigbooty
[Jul 3, 2004 7:13:08 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Vurogj

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I've jes' watched the videos and they are very good, I'm a low Ult at the moment, and was impressed at how quick the click an' drag seemed to be.
I'm not sure I'd be able to adapt to it though, as I've been usin' the mouse wheel ever since I first gunned. Usin' the keys seems way off to me, why make double the work fer yerself by usin' both hands?
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Older, crankier,
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[Jul 3, 2004 7:27:22 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    vurogj    vurojg [Link]  Go to top 
ayli



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basam wrote: 
The first thing I noticed in the movie is that you use the "click and drag" method of placing the arrows instead of the "awsd" method (the a, w, d, and s keys will cause the arrow to point left, up, right, and down, then clicking places it.)

Is there a consensus among the best gunners that click-dragging is faster than key&clicking?


I tried the keyboard method once, but just couldn't get used to it. My opinion is there are several reasons:
With click and drag, to place an arrow you need to press the mouse button, move the mouse, and release the button. With practice this can be almost as fast as clicking, and can be accomplished with just a quick flick of the wrist.
With the keyboard, to place an arrow you need to press a key, then click the mouse anyway. This requires almost the same amount of work from the hand using the mouse, but also requires coordination with the hand using the keyboard. I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out that people equally skilled with both methods could click-drag faster than key-click.

Edit: Just tried the mousewheel method and found it absolutely impossible to position arrows both quickly and accurately.

Any opinion from the ASDW crowd?
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[size=10]Ruby: because telling your grandkids how you singlehandedly beat those three light blue brigands just isn't the same
[Jul 3, 2004 7:57:53 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
ivazquez



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I love the two-handed method. I'm stuck at Legendary, but that's only because my eye-hand coordination is just a tad too slow still, not because I can't get my two hands to cooperate.

As for the mousewheel, wouldn't go near it with a 10-foot pole.
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Indeed wrote: 
You people are like hare krishnas. What do i have to do , beat you over the head?

[Jul 3, 2004 9:38:53 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
jaywilson

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Very nice, thanks for sharing with the community. Hopefully this is what I need to see to take my gunning to the next level.

/me runs off to practice... again ;)
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otherwise known as: Jamalia (on all oceans)
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Nuroticfish



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Can someone explain how the mouse wheel works in gunning? I'm unable to find this - thanks.

And - Whitefire? Wow. Just wow.
[Jul 3, 2004 10:54:23 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
alanafiona



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Huh.

Well, thank ye for confirming I'm Doing It Right(tm) - I just need to be a bit more twitchy to keep it at Legendary, I guess.

Maybe I need a less sucky mouse.

;)
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Alanafiona, distracted Captain of the Crimson Tyrants
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Why, yes, we are a bit strange - after all, we're lego pirates!
[Jul 3, 2004 10:55:51 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Broccoli



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Nuroticfish wrote: 
Can someone explain how the mouse wheel works in gunning? I'm unable to find this - thanks.

And - Whitefire? Wow. Just wow.


it changes the direction the arrow points
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Broccoli
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and President of DOOFIS*


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[Jul 3, 2004 11:01:09 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
54x

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The click and drag crowd can probably move their mouse around faster than they can click, wheras the WSAD crowd can probably click faster. It just depends on your reaction speed for each type of movement I guess, although I can imagine situations where the other method might be faster for people who normally use WSAD/click'n'drag.

Plus, I like gunning one-handed :)
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Diamondblade, Cartographer, Crimson Tide.
from Midnight.
Dear sir or madam can you read my book, it took me years to write, will you take a look?
[Jul 4, 2004 4:12:41 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.mjwhitehead.com/    raasike54    secondlight5454    32987700 [Link]  Go to top 
LuckyTom



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i cant get the videos to work :( iv used windows media player and divx but couldnt get either to work :S

I do gunning 1 handed aswell, mostly because i didnt realise there was another way lol
[Jul 4, 2004 5:14:48 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
LongJohnGrey

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ayli wrote: 
...With click and drag, to place an arrow you need to press the mouse button, move the mouse, and release the button. With practice this can be almost as fast as clicking, and can be accomplished with just a quick flick of the wrist.
With the keyboard, to place an arrow you need to press a key, then click the mouse anyway. This requires almost the same amount of work from the hand using the mouse, but also requires coordination with the hand using the keyboard...


OK, a completely different approach.

I'm a key-click person.

I aim, pause; click to drop a ready-to-go piece.
Then I aim and click a "skip past" piece.

To use the mouse, I'd have to wait, then click-drag ** MOVE BACK ** click-redrag. And I always missed the "move back" -- the "skip over" piece would rarely make the right spot, unless I spent enough time that two pieces could get into the gun.

With key-mouse, I can sometimes catch the first and third piece. Can you?

I can almost get the middle piece, I need to work on key-key-key. For some reason, instead of 5-w-5, I wind up pressing w-5-w.
----------------------------------------
Re: Market on Scurvy Reef:
Hypnos wrote: 
I didn't realize it was such a hot forage spot until I dropped it and three pirates showed up on the island in quick succession.
And it wasn't even 9 spaces from the arrow :-).
[Jul 4, 2004 6:11:43 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Pokeytax

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I am middle-of-the-road Ultimate and use ASDW only. Once upon a time when I had a better mouse I used click-drag, but had to switch when the flick ayli describes became impossible.

I do occasionally miss pieces due to a lack of speed, but I think that's just mental slowness, not slower technique. I seem about as fast as I was with click-drag. Agreed on mouse wheel being nuts though.

Considering that last we checked Quix can gun Incredibly using only the keyboard with no mouse at all, I think Quixaroo is Jesusdeveloping your vision for the Gunnery board is the best way to improve, rather than switching from one technique to another.
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Pokeytax on Malachite
Pokey on Midnight
[Jul 4, 2004 6:25:37 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Whitefire

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Vurogj wrote: 
I've jes' watched the videos and they are very good, I'm a low Ult at the moment, and was impressed at how quick the click an' drag seemed to be.
I'm not sure I'd be able to adapt to it though, as I've been usin' the mouse wheel ever since I first gunned. Usin' the keys seems way off to me, why make double the work fer yerself by usin' both hands?


I would be part of the ASDW crowd if I knew about it when I started gunning. It would make your arrow placement faster and more accurate. Since I've been gunning for close to a year and can hit top 10 gunning, I jus' figure why fix something when its not broke? If you have the coordination for ASDW and mouse I'd say go for it.

As for the mousewheel, use it if you want to stay at legendary X-X.
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pezzazz

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Whitefire wrote: 

As for the mousewheel, use it if you want to stay at legendary X-X.


Hey chump, I have been using the mousewheel since i joined the games a year ago, and I used to be top 10, when I cared more ;) and am holding top 10 in diamond arch right now, and I haven't gone out of my way to achieve that. Anyway, I tried to use the keyboard and I find it too hard after learning to use the scroll mouse. However, the most important thing to note is that im using an older version of a Microsoft scroll mouse, and so, the wheel is a lot stiffer than all these other new mice. Hence I have excellent control over turning the arrows and speed. So watch out Whitey... I might just take yer spot ;)

Mouse rules, Keyboards drool.

Juggla
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AngryChair



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Hmm, after seeing this I'd thought I'd try a different approach..(no not click and drag), so now I used ASDW and I hit the gun top 10..funny that.
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[size=7]Sun shines in the bedroom when we play
the raining only starts when you go away

[Jul 5, 2004 12:14:48 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    mellonco11ie [Link]  Go to top 
54x

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After seeing these videos, I realised I can gun faster, and am now doing incredibles a lot more often ^_^
----------------------------------------
Diamondblade, Cartographer, Crimson Tide.
from Midnight.
Dear sir or madam can you read my book, it took me years to write, will you take a look?
[Jul 5, 2004 1:13:02 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.mjwhitehead.com/    raasike54    secondlight5454    32987700 [Link]  Go to top 
Broccoli



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Pokeytax wrote: 
Quixaroo is Jesus



I knew there was a reason I liked her.
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Broccoli
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and President of DOOFIS*


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[Jul 5, 2004 2:27:45 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Whitefire

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pezzazz wrote: 
However, the most important thing to note is that im using an older version of a Microsoft scroll mouse, and so, the wheel is a lot stiffer than all these other new mice.


Yeah, my problem is that my brain breaks when I try to use my middle finger to control the mouse. When you cared more? You mean back when I was kicking your butt in gunning duels? =D
[Jul 5, 2004 4:39:53 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
pezzazz

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Whitefire wrote: 

You mean back when I was kicking your butt in gunning duels? =D


nawww, back before that =p And, hey, we were pretty damn even... it's just whenever you made me use the BD ships...
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MasterMonkey



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I'm an asdw'er. Currently at #9 in the ocean.

I find that dragging leads to too many mistakes when trying to seperate pieces at top speed. Why bother moving the mouse, when you are just going to be clicking in the same place twice in quick succession? Maybe I'm just lazy :)

Perhaps I'd think differently had I not started my gunning life using a touch pad (I'm using a mouse now though :P )
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Stinkie

Proud co-owner of the Good Ship Lollipop
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ggerrietts



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I'm a very poor gunner. These videos and the related commentary have been huge for me. I'm sure I have people around me who could have provided me with enough occassional advice to go from consistent Poors and Booches to the odd Excellent and steady Goods. But they hadn't. Reading this thread and watching the associated video did it for me, though -- five minutes to a complete turnaround in gunnery. I stopped trying to move the pieces to where I wanted them, started looping them around the board and grabbing what I needed as it went past. From total frustration to reasonable success, just like that.

Thank you, Whitefire, and thanks to everyone else for the ensuing commentary.

Out of curiousity, did the video for the dead end ever get posted? I managed to work out a strategy for handling that, but I would like very much to see how someone who's actually good at the game does it.
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Phinar
Unlikely officer and mangy mascot in the Athenians
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Whitefire

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ggerrietts wrote: 
Out of curiousity, did the video for the dead end ever get posted? I managed to work out a strategy for handling that, but I would like very much to see how someone who's actually good at the game does it.


Windows decided to corrupt itself and destroy my harddrive. Making the file kind of became a backburner to recovering and re-creating alot of my loops and mixes. I'll get it up some day.
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