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BehindCurtai

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Zero poe bilge research event Reply to this Post
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Continuing the discussion from here

 
 
I'm pretty sure that 2 crabs at once is more than twice one crab

I'm pretty sure it's the contrary. I remember releasing the 6 crabs at once and comparing it to 6 single releases and thinking, "that was NOT worth the effort."

I've done single crabs, and occasional doubles. The font size on bigger crab clears is very large; based on that, I figured it was more than double.

It looks like someone with more skill/experience has disproven that.

 
The scoring frame is 3 minutes. I don't quite understand why 40 moves wouldn't fit in that frame.

40 moves in 180 seconds will fit. It depends on how quickly you make moves.

When you broke it, how sparkly was your indicator? How are you telling how valuable it was?

Star meters: In Carp, star meters record how many holes you fill. In sails, it records how many boards you clear.

Duty nav and bilge do fill faster for bigger combos, but "is it directly proportional to score?" is, as far as I know, an unknown question. I suspect if we compared 3's with 3x3's we might get an answer (can people do a round of 7 color doing only 3x3's?)

If, as you say, it is proportional to score in bilge, then we can determine the value pretty easily, and yes, it will be more than I had thought.
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"We're trying to find the error bars on that number"

Dylan wrote: 
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[Feb 24, 2008 9:59:50 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://StrictConstitution.BlogSpot.Com [Link]  Go to top 
Deborah

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Re: Zero poe bilge research event Reply to this Post
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I'm not entirely certain how much more 2 crabs are than 1, or 3 are more than 2, but I do know that the water level affects how much the crabs are worth. I've gone from brown pump to sparkly by clearing a single crab via 3x3 with a full bilge meter, whereas doing a 3x3 that clears a crab when the bilge meter is empty doing that won't really assist your score.

I've tried seeing how far my star meters fill on various combos, but I haven't been able to make any clear determinations.

--m3, not sure if she's helping or not
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Hermes says, "At any rate, I'm afraid I'll have to cede to your blockade, ladies. Business calls."
Madmarymeade says, "I think this means Rexe-Mary 2, OMs 0?"
Hermes says, "We go down easily."
[Feb 24, 2008 1:09:56 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
tanonev

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When you broke it, how sparkly was your indicator? How are you telling how valuable it was?


3x3 in 3 moves is borderline sparkly on Sage. Starting from a dead pump, I take ~20 moves to set up the 3x3x3x3, ~20 moves devoted to setting up the next one. Just before firing the second one, my indicator is borderline sparkly (sparkly some days, yellow others). Just before firing the second one, I've used ~40 moves to fire off a 3x3x3x3 + a handful of 3s. This almost certainly is within one scoring window, considering that I frequently get a board clear (which is about 7 3x3x3x3s) before the end of the first league.

 
Duty nav and bilge do fill faster for bigger combos, but "is it directly proportional to score?" is, as far as I know, an unknown question. I suspect if we compared 3's with 3x3's we might get an answer (can people do a round of 7 color doing only 3x3's?)

If, as you say, it is proportional to score in bilge, then we can determine the value pretty easily, and yes, it will be more than I had thought.


For now, I'm going to claim Ockham's Razor. Until there is evidence to the contrary, direct proportional fill is the simplest explanation for what's going on.

There is one piece of evidence:

I do know that the star fill caused by crab clears is linear in the amount of crabs cleared at once. Again, the simplest explanation is that both star filling and multicrab values are linear. Otherwise, barring the possibility of a non-monotonic rate of change for the filling amount (which would just be weird), it must be the case that either multicrab values are sublinear (which I don't think anyone would argue for), or the star filling rate is sublinear (which would mean Sea Donkeys are worth MORE than what the star meter would suggest, which apparently no one currently believes).

Incidentally, going by font size won't work for higher scoring combos. I get the feeling that the font size is capped somewhere around 3x3x5. You can verify that it is capped by setting up an absurdly large combo using this method.
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[Feb 24, 2008 5:41:14 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.alpha-slash.com [Link]  Go to top 
BehindCurtai

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This is good.

 
3x3 in 3 moves is borderline sparkly on Sage. Starting from a dead pump, I take ~20 moves to set up the 3x3x3x3, ~20 moves devoted to setting up the next one. Just before firing the second one, my indicator is borderline sparkly (sparkly some days, yellow others). Just before firing the second one, I've used ~40 moves to fire off a 3x3x3x3 + a handful of 3s. This almost certainly is within one scoring window, considering that I frequently get a board clear (which is about 7 3x3x3x3s) before the end of the first league.


To clarify: Your first 20 moves set up and fire a 3x3x3x3, giving you what kind of indicator? Your second one takes another 20 moves, and you fire it ... when?

4 points per turn for sparkly on Sage? I gotta try that...
----------------------------------------
"We're trying to find the error bars on that number"

Dylan wrote: 
Why buy sham poo when real poo is so readily available

[Feb 24, 2008 6:55:39 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://StrictConstitution.BlogSpot.Com [Link]  Go to top 
tanonev

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Immediately after firing the 3x3x3x3, I get a sparkly. After the 20 moves after that, it's borderline. That's under a minute into the puzzle. Firing the second one gets me to sparkly if I wasn't there before.
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[Feb 24, 2008 8:01:27 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.alpha-slash.com [Link]  Go to top 
sweetnessc

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Er I've never tested it under an experiment design that controls for observation errors, but I have noticed repeatedly that sequentially clearing double crabs doesn't take me to sparkle when simultaneously clearing double crabs immediatley takes me to sparkly (I suck at highwater bilging, so tend to get stuck when I get lots of crabs). Based on that I'd hazard a guess that the score is not the same but well now I'll have to go test it.
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[Feb 25, 2008 12:21:37 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
barrelmonkey

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From my experience, it feels like getting 2 crabs cleared at once is worth more than separately, but beyond 2 the value doesn't seem to increase exponentially. That's just how it feels to me though; I haven't done any quantitative experiments.
[Feb 25, 2008 3:46:56 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
tanonev

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Incidentally, there's currently a simple way to check whether the star meter fills linearly with the number of points. Follow the setup in the link above to make a 3x3x3x3, 3x3x3x3x3, 3x3x3x3x3x3, etc., and see whether the star meter fill increases linearly.
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Tanonev on all oceans; currently exploring Meridian.
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[Feb 25, 2008 4:36:19 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.alpha-slash.com [Link]  Go to top 
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