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Forums » List all forums » Forum: Crafting Puzzle Project » Thread: Puzzle Codename: Mariggle |
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Thread Status: Normal Total posts in this thread: 45
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DreadedChris
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I have created a page describing a 'dropped blocks' puzzle where the player assembles shapes of furniture from basic pieces. http://yppedia.puzzlepirates.com/GCPP:Proposal-Mariggle ---------------------------------------- ~< The Dread Pirate Chris >~ |
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tanonev
Joined: Nov 18, 2006 Posts: 1912 Status: Offline |
I like the premise behind this puzzle, and I think it would be a blast to code (yes, I'm volunteering myself if you don't have a coder yet (or aren't a coder yourself), subject to the caveat that I can't start coding until mid March or so). Technical note: Could you crop the example image to get rid of the whitespace above the board? Some things to expand on: I'm assuming that when you clear furniture, the pieces above the clear will fall down. This could cause cascading clears. Would you like these chains to have bonuses? If so, how would you like them to work? Also, would chains that result in more than 20 clears total be allowed? Is there (or should there be) a penalty for excess pieces at the end of the game? What about a bonus for having an empty workspace at the end? Currently, the first level has no variability. What about introducing both the L and the I pieces from the start? What are the dimensions of the playing field? ---------------------------------------- Tanonev on Sage /mute for the forums PLAY ME (updated 4/22/10) Puppetar by Tilinka ---------------------------------------- [Edit 1 times, last edit by tanonev at Feb 18, 2008 3:37:33 PM] |
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DreadedChris
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Oops, I'll fix the graphics. And add more example furnitures. I'm thinking of a field only 5-wide to create enough constriction to keep the game challenging. If you 'booch' to the top of the screen, the lowest row can turn to 'sawdust' and vanish. The depth should be at least 5 and less than 15. Maybe around 10. Cascades will be difficult to build, I think, because of the vertical nature of the game, so either they should have big bonuses or none at all. I'm not sure if cascades should be a goal. I'm trying to think of some other bonus variability. Different kinds of wood where pieces built of matching types get bonus points, maybe? Ok, two pieces for the start level should be easy enough to deal with, I'd think. ---------------------------------------- ~< The Dread Pirate Chris >~ |
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tanonev
Joined: Nov 18, 2006 Posts: 1912 Status: Offline |
Games like swordfighting and Puyo Pop are vertical in nature but cascade-oriented. I think setting up cascades wouldn't be too farfetched. In any case, tweaking scoring is easy once the prototype is working. The only things we should clarify early on are whether cascades actually clear and whether clears above 20 are allowed if they're in a cascade. I agree that the number of pieces seems a little low. I'm not sure whether a "grain bonus" (or color bonus, or whatever) would add more strategy or simply be more annoying. With the playing field being relatively narrow, though, adding more core piece types would probably just result in too much clutter. One possible core piece type is a blank piece, which would be necessary as the interior of some larger furniture patterns. Special pieces could include a "bomb" piece that removes pieces in a 3x3 grid around it when it lands, and a "wildcard" piece that looks like a specially colored version of the + but can be used as any piece. Also, can you specify the key and/or mouse controls you want? ---------------------------------------- Tanonev on Sage /mute for the forums PLAY ME (updated 4/22/10) Puppetar by Tilinka |
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DreadedChris
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Ok, made some updates with suggested scoring and controls. I tried to replace the example board image but I'm not seeing the change take place. I did specifically want the pieces to be simple but the play to be at least somewhat complex. I'm thinking at first, at least, that you can clear any furniture type, but maybe a limited set like shipwrighting does would be better. If we have bombs and wildcards, we should add a 'preview' piece and a 'swap' control. The trick with wildcards though is they might create ambiguity in certain constructions, since I didn't mean for there to be a 'clear' button. Once you have formed a furniture on the board it clears, like a platform vanishing in sailing. I do know some java, but I'm perfectly happy to let someone else code this, btw. I'm leaving the computer programming field as a profession and still a bit burned out from the experience. :o Maybe in a few years I'll be interested in hobby coding again... ---------------------------------------- ~< The Dread Pirate Chris >~ |
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Zachmelin
Joined: Sep 24, 2005 Posts: 8 Status: Offline |
Well i Could Certainly code this easily in flash. I would be happy making the prototype. |
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DreadedChris
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Added a cascade example, and the 'chair' furniture. I think there might be just about 8 furnitures. Small chest, large chest, wardrobe, fancy wardrobe, table, chair, wooden crate, and maybe bed. Those are the ones I had thought of anyway, even though I don't have images up for them all yet. I'm still not sure about wildcards, but maybe at least one or two of a tunneling piece (drill?), a bomb (saw?), and a single-tile destruction piece (chisel?). Can always try a wildcard version if it looks like there won't be any trouble with ambiguity (meaning, the same configuration has more than one way to be cleared if there's a wildcard in there.) ---------------------------------------- ~< The Dread Pirate Chris >~ |
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tanonev
Joined: Nov 18, 2006 Posts: 1912 Status: Offline |
Ambiguity is almost certain to be a problem if wildcards stay as wildcards on the board, since cascades could cause a wildcard to fire off while not at the top of a column. It might not be a problem if wildcards act as wildcards when they're first placed but turn into + if they don't immediately clear anything (possibly in that cascade). In order to guarantee safety, we'd have to carefully examine all the possible pieces of furniture. Alternatively, the higher scoring furniture could be the one that is cleared. Impose some arbitrary ordering on different furniture with the same number of pieces, and break ties among the same furniture by their top left corner. Or be lazy and just let all matches clear simultaneously ;) Incidentally, it would be nice to have the possible pieces of furniture in a column to the side of the playing field for reference. That was my only major complaint about Haddock. ---------------------------------------- Tanonev on Sage /mute for the forums PLAY ME (updated 4/22/10) Puppetar by Tilinka |
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DreadedChris
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Hmmmm. Allowing one wildcard to clear multiple patterns might be interesting. And yeah, I think the number of furnitures should be small enough to display them all, or else do the shipwrightery thing and show the 'desired' furnitures if the list is long. A long list would make for more room for difficulty scaling. ---------------------------------------- ~< The Dread Pirate Chris >~ |
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DreadedChris
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There we are, the 8 initial proposed furnitures. Although there is a balance problem in that the '+' piece is only used in one furniture. Perhaps one should be changed or another added, as I think there ought to be at least two. Anyway, with those examples to start with, you can maybe see why I didn't think a 'blank' tile was necessary. (That and building by dropping empty space into place feels a bit off to me.) I believe that's sufficient rules and examples for someone to prototype from. ---------------------------------------- ~< The Dread Pirate Chris >~ |
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jdnx429
Joined: Mar 25, 2006 Posts: 1390 Status: Offline |
This looks like something that could be quite fun! I would totally want to play this. It's a very nice combination of strategy and action. ---------------------------------------- Josephdaniel on Midnight. |
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DreadedChris
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I'm glad you like it. :) Hopefully Tanonev is still interested in prototyping it, or else if he can't, maybe Zachmelin is still interested. I'm thinking it needs a small '+' furniture added, but I'm not sure what a 2x2 grid of boxes looks like furniture-wise. Lumber stack or hemp bale maybe would do for a name. Eh. ---------------------------------------- ~< The Dread Pirate Chris >~ |
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tanonev
Joined: Nov 18, 2006 Posts: 1912 Status: Offline |
Two weeks until the quarter is over >_> Stupid operating systems course... After finals are done and I regain what little sanity I normally have, I'll start on the prototype (and do maintenance on the other puzzles I'm responsible for :P). ---------------------------------------- Tanonev on Sage /mute for the forums PLAY ME (updated 4/22/10) Puppetar by Tilinka |
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tanonev
Joined: Nov 18, 2006 Posts: 1912 Status: Offline |
Does window count? >_> Anyhow, a (somewhat buggy) prototype is up: http://www.alpha-slash.com/ypp/mariggle.asp My initial thought: Mistakes hurt a LOT. It's possible (easy, in fact) to drop pieces in places where they'll be impossible to clear. ---------------------------------------- Tanonev on Sage /mute for the forums PLAY ME (updated 4/22/10) Puppetar by Tilinka |
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DreadedChris
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Oh, yeah. We will definitely add clearing-pieces then. Maybe more than one. Drills cut through a vertical column. Prybars smash up a 3x3 where they hit. Chisels remove all of whatever piece type they hit, like all + how's that sound? Will check out the prototype tonight, work now. ---------------------------------------- ~< The Dread Pirate Chris >~ |
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tanonev
Joined: Nov 18, 2006 Posts: 1912 Status: Offline |
Can I get graphics for the special tiles, as well as a single image of all the possible furniture that could fit in the bottom right corner of the current prototype? Alternatively, if you don't mind incredibly simple graphics for the special tiles, I can use Java shapes to make them. ---------------------------------------- Tanonev on Sage /mute for the forums PLAY ME (updated 4/22/10) Puppetar by Tilinka |
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DreadedChris
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Hmm, I can't seem to run the prototype on my (Debian linux) system. Yeah, I'll modify the wiki with image tiles and everything tomorrow, I should have some time. java.lang.UnsupportedClassVersionError: Bad version number in .class file at java.lang.ClassLoader.defineClass1(Native Method) at java.lang.ClassLoader.defineClass(Unknown Source) at java.security.SecureClassLoader.defineClass(Unknown Source) at java.net.URLClassLoader.defineClass(Unknown Source) at java.net.URLClassLoader.access$100(Unknown Source) at java.net.URLClassLoader$1.run(Unknown Source) at java.security.AccessController.doPrivileged(Native Method) at java.net.URLClassLoader.findClass(Unknown Source) at sun.applet.AppletClassLoader.findClass(Unknown Source) at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(Unknown Source) at sun.applet.AppletClassLoader.loadClass(Unknown Source) at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(Unknown Source) at sun.applet.AppletClassLoader.loadCode(Unknown Source) at sun.applet.AppletPanel.createApplet(Unknown Source) at sun.plugin.AppletViewer.createApplet(Unknown Source) at sun.applet.AppletPanel.runLoader(Unknown Source) at sun.applet.AppletPanel.run(Unknown Source) at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source) java.lang.UnsupportedClassVersionError: Bad version number in .class file at java.lang.ClassLoader.defineClass1(Native Method) at java.lang.ClassLoader.defineClass(Unknown Source) at java.security.SecureClassLoader.defineClass(Unknown Source) at java.net.URLClassLoader.defineClass(Unknown Source) at java.net.URLClassLoader.access$100(Unknown Source) at java.net.URLClassLoader$1.run(Unknown Source) at java.security.AccessController.doPrivileged(Native Method) at java.net.URLClassLoader.findClass(Unknown Source) at sun.applet.AppletClassLoader.findClass(Unknown Source) at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(Unknown Source) at sun.applet.AppletClassLoader.loadClass(Unknown Source) at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(Unknown Source) at sun.applet.AppletClassLoader.loadCode(Unknown Source) at sun.applet.AppletPanel.createApplet(Unknown Source) at sun.plugin.AppletViewer.createApplet(Unknown Source) at sun.applet.AppletPanel.runLoader(Unknown Source) at sun.applet.AppletPanel.run(Unknown Source) at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source) ---------------------------------------- ~< The Dread Pirate Chris >~ |
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tanonev
Joined: Nov 18, 2006 Posts: 1912 Status: Offline |
Do you have the latest version of Java? It sounds like your system doesn't recognize the version number it was compiled with. If it's still a problem, I can recompile under Java 5... ---------------------------------------- Tanonev on Sage /mute for the forums PLAY ME (updated 4/22/10) Puppetar by Tilinka |
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jdnx429
Joined: Mar 25, 2006 Posts: 1390 Status: Offline |
I got the prototype working but I only get one type of piece. Am I doing something wrong? I only get the corner piece. I can make squares with four tiles but that's it. ---------------------------------------- Josephdaniel on Midnight. |
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tanonev
Joined: Nov 18, 2006 Posts: 1912 Status: Offline |
The settings default to the L piece only. You can change the relative piece frequencies using the boxes at the bottom of the page. (You can save the URLs for the frequencies as well.) ---------------------------------------- Tanonev on Sage /mute for the forums PLAY ME (updated 4/22/10) Puppetar by Tilinka |
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DreadedChris
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'Drill' added to the yppedia 'gameplay' section. And yeah, my browser was looking in the wrong directory for java and getting the old one. I updated the link. I think that 12:3:3:1 might be a good ratio. You need a lot of corners. You also need the yppedia page open until I get together a sidebar for the goals. ---------------------------------------- ~< The Dread Pirate Chris >~ |
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tanonev
Joined: Nov 18, 2006 Posts: 1912 Status: Offline |
Could I get the images in PNG format, if it's not too much trouble? Preferably with a transparent background? ---------------------------------------- Tanonev on Sage /mute for the forums PLAY ME (updated 4/22/10) Puppetar by Tilinka |
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DreadedChris
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Uploaded PNGs. I'm thinking about making some drastic changes to gameplay, since it doesn't feel quite as fun as I had hoped. One way to go would be 'shipwright' style and add a bunch more furnitures so there is a good distribution across the sizes, and give people a list of targets. The other way to go would be a more drastic change. When vorpalbunny was looking over my shoulder, she instinctively thought the puzzle was about making box-shapes to clear. So, maybe it should be - it has much of the same gameplay challenge and is less confusing. The idea there would be that any 'completely connected' rectangle would be a solution, but including stray ends would not. That keeps the solution set limited enough to make it challenging. Whether or not we could recognize and name all of the solutions I don't know. What do you think? ---------------------------------------- ~< The Dread Pirate Chris >~ |
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tanonev
Joined: Nov 18, 2006 Posts: 1912 Status: Offline |
So any time the player creates a closed figure with no excess, clear the figure? We could score it based on the number of segments in the figure (where an L contributes 2 segments, and a + 4), perhaps combined with the number of faces in the figure. (Any such change comes with a much more variable implementation date, since I'm not so familiar with such computations.) In this case, however, I'm a bit worried about the difficulty progression of the puzzle. I'm not sure moving up from 1 piece type to 4 is enough to span the distance from Able to Ultimate. Also, do you feel the drop speed is too slow? That may be a contributing factor to it not being so fun. In any case, if you're planning a drastic change, I'll hold off on making any code changes until the dust settles a little :) ---------------------------------------- Tanonev on Sage /mute for the forums PLAY ME (updated 4/22/10) Puppetar by Tilinka |
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tanonev
Joined: Nov 18, 2006 Posts: 1912 Status: Offline |
Mini-bump. Have you decided which direction you want to take the puzzle in? Also, I spotted (and patched) a bug involving rotating + pieces. ---------------------------------------- Tanonev on Sage /mute for the forums PLAY ME (updated 4/22/10) Puppetar by Tilinka |
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DreadedChris
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I'm still kind of waffling. :o On the one hand, building furniture pictures is the original idea and ties it strongly to furnishing. On the other hand, as a puzzle game, building boxes gives a simplicity of rules / complexity of play (hopefully) that I think is the mark of a good puzzle game. (By which I mean, complex rules + simple play < complex rules + complex play < simple rules + complex play. "Minutes to learn, a lifetime to master" as they say for some milton-bradley game. Othello, maybe.) Probably, I should put together a static sideboard graphic to make the game actually playable. Might get more feedback from the public then. The clearing-space pieces should be the same either way, although in the boxes direction they'd be less frequent than in the furniture-pictures direction. ---------------------------------------- ~< The Dread Pirate Chris >~ |
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tanonev
Joined: Nov 18, 2006 Posts: 1912 Status: Offline |
Just a quick post to let you know that I'm under something of an IRL overload right now, and it'll take at least a couple weeks for me to sort everything out. Updates to the prototype will have to wait until then, I'm afraid. ---------------------------------------- Tanonev on Sage /mute for the forums PLAY ME (updated 4/22/10) Puppetar by Tilinka |
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Nekura_Ca
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I've been playing your prototype, just providing some feedback. Mistakes hurt, once a piece is placed where it can't be used, such as a '+' as the first piece, it's stuck there forever. The Drill and Crowbar are useful, but if they're too frequent, they can mess up planned plays, and if they are too infrequent, mistakes can pile up. What you could do is allow any closed group to clear, but only those that match the patterns are worth anything. To make this simpler, you could also include a 'Cap' piece, a piece with only 1 line from the center to the edge, and adjust the target shapes so that they are all closed, ie, the chair would have a cap on top, the T and L, and then two caps on the bottom for the legs. This allows for easier testing of closure for clearing unused pieces and target pieces. I've made a quick image to show what I mean:  ---- Nekura on Viridian ---------------------------------------- Nekura on Viridian GCPP-Mullet Proposal: http://yppedia.puzzlepirates.com/GCPP:Proposal-Mullet GCPP-Mullet Discussion: http://forums.puzzlepirates.com/community/mvnforum/viewthread?p=1494438 GCPP-Mullet Prototype: http://tinyurl.com/43lwxc |
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Aliono
Joined: Apr 29, 2008 Posts: 36 Status: Offline |
Nice game. Could you put a small static list of blueprints in the prototype? ---------------------------------------- http://akamiidea.webs.com Akami http://yppedia.puzzlepirates.com/GCPP:Proposal-Feinte Project Feinte - Feedback/artist/coder is wanted! Consistently updated! Inumo of Sage |
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tanonev
Joined: Nov 18, 2006 Posts: 1912 Status: Offline |
Bump. I should be able to find some time to work on this next week. I can't seem to find the PNGs anywhere. Could you direct me to them please? ---------------------------------------- Tanonev on Sage /mute for the forums PLAY ME (updated 4/22/10) Puppetar by Tilinka |
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