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Kaji

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Will the Mac OSX version be ready upon release? Reply to this Post
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I played this game at my friend's house and absolutely loved it, but I have a Mac at home, and it has the graphical glitches and what have you. Will Yohoho work on OSX by the time of the final release? I don't wanna pay and not have it work... Thx!
[Jul 21, 2003 8:41:50 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Ely



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Re: Will the Mac OSX version be ready upon release? Reply to this Post
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Cleaver wrote: 
PP doesn't behave well on Java 1.4 on the Mac, yet. We have a developer release of 10.3 and it's much better on that (with the developer release of Java for 10.3) but we understand that it's going to be a while before 10.3 gets released. Alas, the problems with the current implementation of Java are such that there's not really anything we can do except wait.

Rest assured, though, that we are doing what we can to get PP on the Mac.

[Jul 21, 2003 9:38:56 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    Ely114 [Link]  Go to top 
Walrus



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Re: Will the Mac OSX version be ready upon release? Reply to this Post
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As a point of reference...

Even on the developer release of 10.3 you'll need a newer machine to get it to run smoothly unless there are some major fixes between now and release from Apple. (Well within the realm of possibility.)

It is not really playable on a sub 500MHz G4 with max RAM even with the improvements of the 10.3 DR. The screen does some weird stuff when it is supposed to be scrolling the scene, the text is abnormally small. It's certainly a work in progress, but the work to be done mainly lies on Apple's side of the fence from the look of things.

Of course, yer experience may be different than mine... and the devs may have some special trick for running it faster that I be not aware of. Happy sailing.
[Jul 21, 2003 10:27:05 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Kaji

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Re: Will the Mac OSX version be ready upon release? Reply to this Post
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Thanks for yer help. I guess I'll just try to run it in Virtual PC till 10.3 comes out...
[Jul 21, 2003 10:46:01 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Solenis



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Virtual PC Reply to this Post
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Does Puzzle Pirates work on Virtual PC?
[Aug 14, 2003 10:27:27 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
emphasissy



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PP on X11? and RE: Solenis Reply to this Post
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I'm new to X11 on OSX... would it be possible to run the client by launching it in a web browser in X11? How would you go about telling Java to draw in an XFree window?


Solenis: PP will run in Virtual PC, but on my dual G4/500 it's unbearably slow.
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Banaga
-of Rudder Rampage
[Aug 18, 2003 5:21:19 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Ely



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Re: PP on X11? and RE: Solenis Reply to this Post
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emphasissy wrote: 
would it be possible to run the client by launching it in a web browser in X11?


I could be wrong here, but I believe Java plugins and applets that run in web browsers are totally different from actual Java applications run under JRE. I don't think there is a way to get something like this to work within any web browser we have today.
[Aug 19, 2003 1:57:31 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    Ely114 [Link]  Go to top 
tipeon



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Re: Will the Mac OSX version be ready upon release? Reply to this Post
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Ely: A Java applet and a Java application are not really totally different. It's the same difference than between a standalone flash application and a flash applet in a web browser.
The conversion of YPP to an applet is technically possible, but it's not easy, and the devs are not likely to do it (read: they will never do it).

emphasissy: the problem on MacOS X is not the display. You need JRE version 1.4.2 and it simply does not exist (yet) for OSX.
[Aug 19, 2003 2:59:28 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
JediPwnces



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Re: Will the Mac OSX version be ready upon release? Reply to this Post
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sigh... ::taps her fingers on the desk next to the keyboard impatiently...:: Apple and those Java folks sure are taking their sweet time, aren't they?
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Aspasia, Humble Captain of The Muffineers

'A one that is not cold is scarcely a one at all'
[Aug 20, 2003 2:05:24 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.kidsononline.com/~holly    JediPwnces [Link]  Go to top 
Eric



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Re: Will the Mac OSX version be ready upon release? Reply to this Post
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Walrus wrote: 
As a point of reference...

Even on the developer release of 10.3 you'll need a newer machine to get it to run smoothly unless there are some major fixes between now and release from Apple. (Well within the realm of possibility.)

It is not really playable on a sub 500MHz G4 with max RAM even with the improvements of the 10.3 DR. The screen does some weird stuff when it is supposed to be scrolling the scene, the text is abnormally small. It's certainly a work in progress, but the work to be done mainly lies on Apple's side of the fence from the look of things.

Of course, yer experience may be different than mine... and the devs may have some special trick for running it faster that I be not aware of. Happy sailing.


Har Mateys, running 10.3 with the Java 1.4.X developer preview 102 we tend to get lots of speed and lots of booched graphics on a 450Mhz G4 with 768M of RAM. I think the speed will be there for people in the 450+mz g4s once they get it all working, they just need to get it all working. :)

For the technical java folk: There are a couple of problems they are working on, sub 8bit .png files are not rendered properly, there are issues with doing copyareas inside of translated graphics regions (both of which we have bug reports submitted to apple on) and finally they haven't implemented VolatileImages yet. From what I gathered talking to the Apple Java developers at the WWDC this year, they sort of slapped some code in there that will draw stuff to the screen, but it isn't a real VolatileImage according to spec. They are well aware of the issues and will hopefully have something out soonish.

For the unix savy folk: It is sort of possible to play puzzle pirates on OSX over a forwarded X11 connection from a unix box, but you need a really fast connection. For instance my 100MB switched intranet at home is not fast enough to really play. I have not yet tried doing it over a VNC connection, but that might be vaguely workable depending on the speed of the connection, but I wouldn't count on it. And if you have it working on another machine, well, you can always just play on that one. :) Lets just hope the Apple Java engineers decide they want to play puzzle pirates at launch as well. :)
[Aug 21, 2003 5:11:17 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Shro0m

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Re: Will the Mac OSX version be ready upon release? Reply to this Post
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I wanted to bump this thread to mention that I talked to one of the Apple Java guys (from the ADC Java mailing list) about exactly this -- volatileImages not being implemented in an "optimized" way.

As of this writing, using OS X 10.4 (with its JRE 1.4-something) that the graphics performance has improved. Right-clicking around a scene scrolls faster on my Mac (a 1.5Ghz G4 with 512mb) than on my Windows box (Dual 450mhz with 768mb). However ... and this is the crummy part, all loading and screen changes take longer to happen. Much longer. Standing at dock still lags, entering/leaving a building/ship, also is bad. A lsof goes wild at a dock as it loads and unloads pngs for everyone's clothes. Other than scrolling around, using the Mac client on a modern Mac is slightly faster than playing via VNC on my much older PC. The duty puzzles still have some latency which makes "Incredible" scoring difficult (again, better performance on the 6 year old PC).

The good news is, all the text on the Mac JRE is anti-aliased, so while it's slower where it counts, at least the chat looks better. Ha.

I'm interested if anyone else has heard anything from Java devs. I hear that 1.5 will get GPU acceleration like the rest of the OS -- so it could be that YPP will continue to be inferior on the Mac until that date. I haven't kept up with it myself and have just given in to using Windows for pillaging.

(edit for typo)
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Shro0m at Sep 24, 2005 4:25:33 PM]
[Sep 24, 2005 2:04:48 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Lizthegrey
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Re: Will the Mac OSX version be ready upon release? Reply to this Post
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Landon, one of our developers, is looking into filing some bug reports and testcases with Apple. I don't know when we'll have that ready, but hopefully we can work with Apple to resolve the playability issues that the Apple JVM's have with our game.
[Sep 24, 2005 8:00:11 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    https://plus.google.com/106912596786226524817/posts [Link]  Go to top 
Shro0m

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Re: Will the Mac OSX version be ready upon release? Reply to this Post
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Landon, one of our developers, is looking into filing some bug reports and testcases with Apple. I don't know when we'll have that ready, but hopefully we can work with Apple to resolve the playability issues that the Apple JVM's have with our game.


Hey that's great news! Do you know if any Ringers have tested the Mac client with the 1.5 jvm (aka J2RE 5.0)? It's still 'developer preview' at ADC so I'm not suggesting this is a solution for the general population (as even I have been wary of breaking YPP and other Java software by testing it out).

Thankyou for taking the time to respond. :-)
[Sep 24, 2005 4:20:47 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
goodmanj

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Re: Will the Mac OSX version be ready upon release? Reply to this Post
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I've tried it (jvm 1.5/J2RE5.0). Fortunately, the jvm1.5 installer lets you put 1.4 and 1.5 side-by-side on the same machine, and pick which one you want to use, so it's not too dangerous to test. It worked just fine for me, but with no major improvement... until I jobbed in a large blockade, at which point I got massive lag (2-3 seconds per frame of animation) and the game became unplayable.

I haven't double-checked to confirm this bug ... I was kind of busy at the time.
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Argonaut
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Fleet Officer, Sweet Pillage and Mayhem, Cobalt
[Sep 25, 2005 11:11:57 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
bohyun

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Re: Will the Mac OSX version be ready upon release? Reply to this Post
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So, if I understand well, it's not really worth investing into Tiger to get Java 5 and have a good PP ? It would still be about the same ?

Luciole

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[Sep 28, 2005 6:07:46 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
goodmanj

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Re: Will the Mac OSX version be ready upon release? Reply to this Post
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So, if I understand well, it's not really worth investing into Tiger to get Java 5 and have a good PP ? It would still be about the same ?


Tiger is wonderful for other reasons (Spotlight), but in my experience, if you've got $129 to spend on making your YPP life happier, you're better off getting more memory than Tiger.
----------------------------------------
Argonaut
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[Sep 28, 2005 7:26:15 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
bohyun

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Re: Will the Mac OSX version be ready upon release? Reply to this Post
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I have 512 on my G4. You sure that's not enough ?
PP runs fine on my neighbours' crappy PC that only has half that.

Would I have to get a gig to really make the difference ? That sounds a awful lot for a java game. But at this point I am ready to get any advice.

Luce
[Sep 28, 2005 10:36:47 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
bohyun

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Re: Will the Mac OSX version be ready upon release? Reply to this Post
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Another option to consider.
Would the linux version run fine on X11, with the new Java 5 for linux ?
Has anyone tried that ?

Luce
[Sep 28, 2005 10:46:29 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Chainmaille

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Re: Will the Mac OSX version be ready upon release? Reply to this Post
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Regardless of whether you use the "Mac" version or the "Linux" version, you're using the same Java Virtual Machine. The problem is that the Mac implementation of the JVM isn't up to snuff, particularly when it comes to memory usage. I play on a Mac Mini with 512MB of RAM, and while it's playable, I avoid heavily-populated islands (Dragon's Nest especially) because they induce massive docklag, on the order of several minutes.

Basically your options are either to get more memory, or to wait for Apple to upgrade the Mac JVM implementation.
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Derakon - Black Plague on Viridian and Sage
[Sep 28, 2005 11:16:37 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Shro0m

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Re: Will the Mac OSX version be ready upon release? Reply to this Post
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Another option to consider.
Would the linux version run fine on X11, with the new Java 5 for linux ?
Has anyone tried that ?

Luce


Java 5 is only available for Linux on i586 and AMD64. If you have Linux on your Mac there is no Sun JVM/JRE. If you have a seperate Intel computer, then by all means you can play YPP with X11.

When Intel Macs start shipping there's a good chance then that you'll be able to dualboot into Linux in short order -- at which point you'd be able to try both JREs (Linux/Intel and Mac/Intel). Wild times are ahead.

So I want to echo the previous points, Tiger is great for lots of reasons (I've been using it since it came out, so I've forgotten what 10.3 didn't have... Tiger improved performance in other stuff on my iBook, just not Java). But yeah, for $129 you could buy a lot of RAM. RAM helps the biggest problem with YPP on the Mac, lag whenever new images have to be loaded.
[Oct 1, 2005 5:53:52 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
ihope127



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Re: Will the Mac OSX version be ready upon release? Reply to this Post
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So, in short, we all live in a purple submarine... um, I mean all you need is RAM.

(OCX has brainwashed me with their heatspreaders. Help!...)
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No soy un número. ¡Soy un hombre gratis!
[Oct 1, 2005 7:08:49 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
bohyun

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Re: Will the Mac OSX version be ready upon release? Reply to this Post
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Thank you for the recommendations and explanations. I am just gonna have to open my wallet then :)

Thanks again.

Luce
[Oct 3, 2005 3:03:28 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
wehe

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Re: Will the Mac OSX version be ready upon release? Reply to this Post
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im am playing on a mac os x and it works perfectly
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Wehe on all oceans.
[Oct 11, 2005 6:36:15 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
ihope127



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Re: Will the Mac OSX version be ready upon release? Reply to this Post
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im am playing on a mac os x and it works perfectly


Then you probably have more RAM than we do.
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No soy un número. ¡Soy un hombre gratis!
[Oct 14, 2005 6:34:05 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
misled

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Re: Will the Mac OSX version be ready upon release? Reply to this Post
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Actually, living in an all Mac household, I can say that the difference between this computer- the one that plays YPP! faster than any computer I've ever used- and my other one which is fairly average, is that it has 1.42 GHz Processor and 1 GB DDR SDRAM as opposed to 800 MHz and 1 GB SDRAM. The Java is still messed up though, which is depressing, but at least it runs.
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Misled
(on hiatus...)
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by misled at Oct 14, 2005 6:56:06 AM]
[Oct 14, 2005 6:55:33 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.misleddesigns.com    goatiesrule@yahoo.com    goatiesrule [Link]  Go to top 
Shro0m

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Re: Will the Mac OSX version be ready upon release? Reply to this Post
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The latest update introduced tonnes of graphics glitches with (assuming) PNG transparency. They are obvious and rampant in basically every over-head icon and on the new 'homepage' and such. Areas that should be transparent are now white and blocky.

Using 10.4.3 with jvm 1.4. Anyone have similar trouble or is it me? If not, what's your configuration...

If it's not just me it seems like a glaring oversight implying that there isn't any Mac testing done.
[Nov 10, 2005 3:00:36 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Shro0m

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Re: Will the Mac OSX version be ready upon release? Reply to this Post
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Additionally -- this page is out of date: The forum link leads to a 404.

Side note: Pentium II 500MHz with 256MB of RAM. :) I don't even think that is realistic. It's laggy and stutters (especially in sea battles) on a 900 MHz Pentium with 512MB. Maybe it's time to buy a new PC :-)
[Nov 10, 2005 3:10:12 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Lizthegrey
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Re: Will the Mac OSX version be ready upon release? Reply to this Post
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We haven't changed the graphics rendering code; Apple has "upgraded" its 1.4 JVM recently, introducing the graphics glitches. Unfortunately, Apple's JVM builds are beyond our control, and there's little we can do to work around them. I've heard that using the 1.5 JVM and choosing it as the default JVM for running applications will solve some of these rendering issues.
[Nov 10, 2005 3:13:55 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    https://plus.google.com/106912596786226524817/posts [Link]  Go to top 
Shro0m

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Thanks for the advice. I'll put a bug in at the ADC.

For anyone else having this problem that hasn't downloaded the alternate JVM, it's available here (I didn't download it because previous posts said it didn't improve performance... I figured why bother ;) but now there's a reason):

http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/java2se50release1.html

By default, the new Java Preferences will be in:

/Applications/Utilities/Java/J2SE 5.0/

You can change the JVM defaults there. This totally works. The 1.5 (aka 5.0) jvm also has a slighter skinnier font that fixes some minor text-clipping errors that I was seeing in the older jvm. I didn't have time to do any real performance testing.

Thanks again :)
[Nov 10, 2005 6:49:50 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
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