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TBPOTN7

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sorry to bump this thread, but i disagree with one part of yer tutorial. ye say scoring is based only on strikes made, however i got this chain:

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd11/Tbpotn/7chainbs.jpg

and received an inc while i had 13 strikes left, so my conclusion is when ye can build a relative big chain of alternating sets (like 5+) it really gives ye an easier inc at the end. of course, ye sometimes have the risk of ending up with 1 or 2 more "dead" pieces, but ye can avoid those.
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Fist26



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Yup absolutely, it happened me too a couple of times, even with shorter chains than that.

If you really build big chains the points you earn allow you to score incredibles leaving much more pieces on the board at the end.

OTOH optimizing your strikes to clear the board is an easier and safer way to reach the incred imo (of course if youtarget is #1 you can't count on that alone).

Great chain btw ;)
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Sawkins on Cobalt
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couchcrafts



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I notice your 1st tip does not show the Jug does not show up until after Distinguished. You did not note this so i thought i was doing something wrong.
[Mar 14, 2008 4:29:24 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
zilenserz

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I notice your 1st tip does not show the Jug does not show up until after Distinguished. You did not note this so i thought i was doing something wrong.


i was gonna post that i cudnt get the rumjug at all, but ive just read that, and luckily, ive just become distinguished! ty
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zilenserz

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ive actually gone up to distinguished, down again and then up to dist again, and it doesnt work, so i have no idea how to use a rum jug lol, im about 2 games off weighty and ive nbever had a rum jug
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Zilenserz on Hunter,
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Duckling flag officer chats, "What is this RL"

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Diska2

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um, can ye make I guide without a rumjug? some of us arn't skilled enouth to be at that point yet
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CurlyKidd

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um, can ye make I guide without a rumjug? some of us arn't skilled enouth to be at that point yet


I actually found the guide to be helpful even just starting out. Looking back, the only thing I would try different at the lower levels to prepare for the full set of pieces would be to try and keep one corner un-hit for as long as possible (I've seen other guides suggest, and it made sense to me once I saw it, keeping both rum jugs for the end game).
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goflb92

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Hi Travidar,

I managed to go all the way up to Ultimate in three days and I am getting an Incredible at least 90% of the time. I must admit that your guide helped me.

As for suggestions, I have one:

I think it is a good idea to strike as many chess pieces (with the exception of the Knight) as you can in the beginning, as long as you do not end up in the corner, or start having silver pieces around. Then you can strike on a number or a Knight to finish off the middle pieces. With the chess pieces in the middle cleared, (or at least most of them cleared - some will transform into chess pieces again) now you have more flexibility in the middle and you can finish the middle off first, and then reach your corner rum jug.

It should be noted though that this is only valid before you get your first rumjug. I observed that using this strategy, you end up with less silver pieces when you get the first rum jug, since you sort of systematically clear the sides and then the middle.

You usually end up with more silver pieces on the sides than in the middle, and I think this is better. Silvers/holes in the middle cripple you more than the holes in the sides. (At least this statement is valid when you leave more numbers than chess pieces)

I also try to (and most of the time do) get to the "warm" (second degree) rum jug on the last strike, meaning the rum jug becomes a rum jug again :)

The thing to avoid (if you employ this strategy) is that if you have only two squares that lead back to your rum jug, make sure that you use only one of them when getting back to the first one. That seems obvious but is usually forgotten, so be careful :)

The "chess pieces first" thing is merely a general guideline that I believe you should prefer in the beginning. The "rum jugs on the same square" principle is something I always try to use, and it often helps, so that is my advice. Besides, that way, you don't feel under much pressure when making the other corners silver.

Hope my advice (actually I feel like I wrote a whole new guide here =p) helped, I realise it sounds a little illogical in theory but I found out that it really helps.
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Goflb on the Viridian Ocean
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by goflb92 at Oct 2, 2008 3:53:32 PM]
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sheepy_rox55

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Thanx heaps with this one finally after 2 years of playing got my first Ult. I agree with nearly everything just one thing i thought to mention. what i do at the very start is plan my first few strikes and try to make a combo of around 2-3 alternates so hopefully the first 8-12+ strikes give me a nice combo chain.

Saying that still reckon that should avoid the repeat hitiing but gettign those few combos at the start can be a great help getting that inc with a few moer strikes remaining.

Thanks heaps mate

Killersheepy of Sage

Rednecks Revenge FTW (shame im an aussie)
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[Nov 26, 2008 9:09:14 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Avenger4

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Thank You for the tips Trav i went from booching- fine to good- excellent I am now Expert- skilled labour =]
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Avengerlachy on the Viridian
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lonewolf13_2

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well done mate. I have thought about these tips myself before and you have hit the nail on the head
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PirateTez

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Maths obsessive genius that I am, I decided to calculate the average number of options from each type of square (assuming you haven't completed any squares yet)

1 - 6.11 options
2 - 4.44 options
3 - 3 options (always this number)
4 - 2 options (either 1 or 3 options, can never appear in middle four squares)
Knight - 4.44 options
Bishop - 2.77 options
Rook - 3.33 options
Queen - 6.11 options

You can see here that the 4 is the worst piece. Half of the time you'll only have one option with this nasty piece.

Despite not having earned Ult yet, I think I have a few useful tips:



  • Clear 4s, especially those in the "middle sides" (the four 2x2 blocks either side of the central 2x2 block). Reason being that any 4s in here have only one option from them. Completing that option in most cases makes MP impossible.
  • Try to "chain" chess pieces (bishop, rook, queen), unless this would ruin your MP. eg you have landed on a rook. To the right of the rook is your target piece. However to the left of the rook is another rook. Bounce onto that rook and then onto your target square. The reason for this is that the bishop and rook don't give many options, and often become annoyingly stuck at the end of the game. Even the queens can get stuck like this.
  • Try not to "rumjugify" a piece that won't be reachable. I'm worried for anybody who needs me to explain this one.

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[Mar 23, 2009 12:43:47 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Bauds

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  • Try to "chain" chess pieces (bishop, rook, queen), unless this would ruin your MP. eg you have landed on a rook. To the right of the rook is your target piece. However to the left of the rook is another rook. Bounce onto that rook and then onto your target square. The reason for this is that the bishop and rook don't give many options, and often become annoyingly stuck at the end of the game. Even the queens can get stuck like this.


  • I agree with everything you said apart from chaining queen pieces. I try to save them to some extent, especially ones on the edges, as they have lots of options and are great for getting back to the rumjug later in the game.
    ----------------------------------------
    Bauds of Obsidian, formerly Cerulean and before that Midnight.
    [Mar 23, 2009 7:23:25 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
    PirateTez

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  • Try to "chain" chess pieces (bishop, rook, queen), unless this would ruin your MP. eg you have landed on a rook. To the right of the rook is your target piece. However to the left of the rook is another rook. Bounce onto that rook and then onto your target square. The reason for this is that the bishop and rook don't give many options, and often become annoyingly stuck at the end of the game. Even the queens can get stuck like this.


  • I agree with everything you said apart from chaining queen pieces. I try to save them to some extent, especially ones on the edges, as they have lots of options and are great for getting back to the rumjug later in the game.


    I can see what you mean, they are useful with their bountiful options. It depends on the board you get - in a queen heavy board, it is probably better to try and get rid of as many as possible, as the edge pieces can't last forever. If there aren't many, I agree, it is probably better to save them; not for too long though :)
    ----------------------------------------
    Nimrod of Sage.

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    [Mar 30, 2009 10:24:54 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
    henryrules10

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    I'd like to add a link to my thread regarding iteratively solving a blacksmithing endgame. An endgame is defined as a state where you can solve the puzzle.

    That shows the method I use to get masterpieces.
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    [Apr 9, 2009 3:23:36 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
    sts81

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    /me thanks you, Travidar.
    Straight after reading your guide I went from Booched to Incredible

    'Twas very informative.

    Is there any way to consistently get situations in which you can get masterpieces?

    I mean, with human ability. I suppose it would be possible if you analyzed every single possibility and determined the various outcomes and going through with it, but that isn't humanly possible, thereby justifying my question.

    Thanks.
    ----------------------------------------
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    [May 12, 2009 3:43:42 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
    Cehnee

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    Is there any way to consistently get situations in which you can get masterpieces?

    I mean, with human ability. I suppose it would be possible if you analyzed every single possibility and determined the various outcomes and going through with it, but that isn't humanly possible, thereby justifying my question.


    It is possible to get masterpieces consistently enough with just human abilities. I get about 95% masterpieces, with the rest being 1 or 2 off perfect.

    Basically what you are looking for is a good endgame board (see two posts above for endgame iterative solving). Personally I consider a board near-perfect for masterpiece if it satisfies following criteria:
    1) orange piece in the corner, "1" if possible
    2) 0-5 holes, rest silver
    3) no unhittable pieces
    4) no pieces off of which you cannot continue hitting (i.e. a "4" with the only possible endpoint being a hole)

    Using iterative solving it is almost 100% possible to solve such boards with a masterpiece. Slightly failing in one of these criteria usually also results in a near 100% chance of a masterpiece. Anything beyond that and you're stepping on the risky territory.
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    Realjuan

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    great guide, still waiting for the update :D
    ----------------------------------------
    Latinboy
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    [Jun 17, 2009 2:05:32 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
    pyr0_pyrate



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    Is there any way to consistently get situations in which you can get masterpieces?

    I mean, with human ability. I suppose it would be possible if you analyzed every single possibility and determined the various outcomes and going through with it, but that isn't humanly possible, thereby justifying my question.


    It is possible to get masterpieces consistently enough with just human abilities. I get about 95% masterpieces, with the rest being 1 or 2 off perfect.

    Basically what you are looking for is a good endgame board (see two posts above for endgame iterative solving). Personally I consider a board near-perfect for masterpiece if it satisfies following criteria:
    1) orange piece in the corner, "1" if possible
    2) 0-5 holes, rest silver
    3) no unhittable pieces
    4) no pieces off of which you cannot continue hitting (i.e. a "4" with the only possible endpoint being a hole)

    Using iterative solving it is almost 100% possible to solve such boards with a masterpiece. Slightly failing in one of these criteria usually also results in a near 100% chance of a masterpiece. Anything beyond that and you're stepping on the risky territory.



    i would like to see a video of you doing 20 blacksmithing puzzles, getting 19 masterpieces and 1 1-2 piece inc.. if you can seriously get 95% mp's without spending 20 minutes per puzzle, props to you, but i don't believe it..
    [Jun 18, 2009 11:52:23 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
    Cehnee

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    i would like to see a video of you doing 20 blacksmithing puzzles, getting 19 masterpieces and 1 1-2 piece inc.. if you can seriously get 95% mp's without spending 20 minutes per puzzle, props to you, but i don't believe it..


    Unfortunately I'm not that good. I do spend 15-30 min per puzzle, sometimes even as much as 40 min. During standard 30min competitions I can only get a single session, sometimes two to count for me. Iterative solving is done on paper in my case. I'm not sure you'd be to keen on a 8-hour video, especially the parts where I solve it on paper :P I used to keep screenshots of masterpiece-solved endgame boards but that doesn't prove anything on its own.
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    pyr0_pyrate



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    i would like to see a video of you doing 20 blacksmithing puzzles, getting 19 masterpieces and 1 1-2 piece inc.. if you can seriously get 95% mp's without spending 20 minutes per puzzle, props to you, but i don't believe it..


    Unfortunately I'm not that good. I do spend 15-30 min per puzzle, sometimes even as much as 40 min. During standard 30min competitions I can only get a single session, sometimes two to count for me. Iterative solving is done on paper in my case. I'm not sure you'd be to keen on a 8-hour video, especially the parts where I solve it on paper :P I used to keep screenshots of masterpiece-solved endgame boards but that doesn't prove anything on its own.


    ah okay.. i was under the impression that you just sped through every board with maybe paying some more attention to endgame.. but that seems more reasonable now, so i'll retract my skeptical-ness
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    Lamnan



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    You missed only one thing:

    Learning how to program increases your scores. SUBSTANTIALLY increases your scores.
    [Jun 25, 2009 10:50:31 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
    emerson

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    What does programming have to do with this?
    ----------------------------------------
    Cleaver shouts, "I lub this island."
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    Cehnee

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    What does programming have to do with this?

    I'm guessing he was implying that endgame boards, being determinate, are programmatically solvable with appliance of graph theory for example. I'm not aware of any existing blacksmithing solvers but that doesn't mean they don't exist - they are complex but not overly complex to write. And I'm pretty sure it would be against the rules too.
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    Memduh



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    thanks a lot Trav I got Solid Master in 2 days after I read your guide
    [Aug 12, 2009 10:26:26 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
    pyr0_pyrate



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    Hi Travidar,

    I managed to go all the way up to Ultimate in three days and I am getting an Incredible at least 90% of the time. I must admit that your guide helped me.

    As for suggestions, I have one:

    I think it is a good idea to strike as many chess pieces (with the exception of the Knight) as you can in the beginning, as long as you do not end up in the corner, or start having silver pieces around. Then you can strike on a number or a Knight to finish off the middle pieces. With the chess pieces in the middle cleared, (or at least most of them cleared - some will transform into chess pieces again) now you have more flexibility in the middle and you can finish the middle off first, and then reach your corner rum jug.


    VERY MUCH AGREE.. i go as far as to try to get rid of all rooks/bishops/queens, even if they're on the edge or in the corner, unless either
    a) i could get stuck in a corner, or
    b), it'll leave me with awkward holes when a lot of my board is still orange.. then i'll usually leave them as silver until more of my board is also silver
    [Aug 13, 2009 10:20:08 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
    Mimthedragon



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    Hello Everyone :D

    Sorry about grave digging this a bit (I just read his guide)

    I'm an Ultimate blacksmither, and I have been on the ultimate list (#2 the highest) and I'm wondering if my play style will ever get me a #1.

    I can hit a masterpiece about 5-15% of the time, Incredible about 80-90% and 5-15% excellent.

    How much is my score hurt by an excellent with 5-7 pieces left?

    And does it help if I do a ton of puzzles and it ends up being 10-15% being excellents?

    Thanks,

    Mim <3
    ----------------------------------------
    ~Hammerntongs on Crimson~
    ----------------------------------------
    [Edit 1 times, last edit by Mimthedragon at Dec 24, 2009 11:16:39 PM]
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    JakSparow117

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    What does programming have to do with this?

    I'm guessing he was implying that endgame boards, being determinate, are programmatically solvable with appliance of graph theory for example. I'm not aware of any existing blacksmithing solvers but that doesn't mean they don't exist - they are complex but not overly complex to write. And I'm pretty sure it would be against the rules too.


    The same effect within the rules can be had by making a mock blacksmith board and turning over the pieces you use...
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    Mackso-Emerald
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    Bauds

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    Hello Everyone :D

    Sorry about grave digging this a bit (I just read his guide)

    I'm an Ultimate blacksmither, and I have been on the ultimate list (#2 the highest) and I'm wondering if my play style will ever get me a #1.

    I can hit a masterpiece about 5-15% of the time, Incredible about 80-90% and 5-15% excellent.

    How much is my score hurt by an excellent with 5-7 pieces left?

    And does it help if I do a ton of puzzles and it ends up being 10-15% being excellents?

    Thanks,

    Mim <3


    While not a #1 blacksmither I am ultimate and have read posts by #1 blacksmithers, so I know that some can manage something like 90% masterpieces through carefully planning out their every move (at least later on in a puzzle, though dead pieces often become apparent in the mid-game). So it really depends on your ocean I guess as to how good the #1 blacksmither is, I'm curious myself though I doubt I'd ever spend up to half an hour a puzzle like the top blacksmithers do and need to do.

    I know from other puzzles as well as blacksmithing that a high excellent isn't much different from an incredible. You have to remember there are points behind the word, and there is a considerable difference between high and low excellents.

    I don't really understand your last question, as I stated already the proportion of excellents to achieve a certain position will vary greatly between oceans and also over time on a particular ocean. If you are asking if it's better to spend less time on puzzles to get more done at a cost to your score (10-15% rather than 5-10% excellents using your proportions), then no. It will cause your standing to change faster but you are making your overall score worse than it could be otherwise.
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    Bauds of Obsidian, formerly Cerulean and before that Midnight.
    [Dec 25, 2009 1:36:54 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
    icelord161

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    Re: Travidar's Ultimate Blacksmithing - YPPedia Guide *PLEASE REVIEW!* Reply to this Post
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    After scanning over this it didnt really catch my attention due to lack of colours. It might attract more attention if you put a few pictures or some other stuff! Thank you though I went up a bit!
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    -Zarchi
    -King of Universe A
    -Avatar by Cattrin
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