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Livesey



Joined: Jan 18, 2003
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Sea Lanes Reply to this Post
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I really like the idea of having more difficult and less difficult areas on the map. Densely travelled sea lanes are a VERY welcome change. Having places where you'll be attacked even by reds is fine, too. (I'll henceforth call aggressive red brigands 'red-ship') Having places where a solo sloop has no hope opens up all sorts of excellent possibilities.

However, I don't have any idea where the hard places are right now. That the most difficult area of the game includes alpha island seems wholly innappropriate, and I confess I'm still reeling a bit from that shock.

Perhaps it is my bias from previous games, but I come to this with two basic expectations: 1) The hard areas are clearly defined (think ski resort) 2) The hard areas are well away from the newbies, and are a barrier to the 'phat lewt'.

So I'd expect that something like Guava to Tinga would be a red-ship route, for example. I'd expect the Thorium route to have red-ships patrolling the lanes. Absolutely not Alpha to Byrne.

As for #1, I suggest marking the league points on the chart according to the most difficult sea lane that uses it. The existing blue - red scheme seems like an obvious choice, perhaps with circle, triangle, and square for the color-blind. The shape could be potentially applied to the ships as well.
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-Hethor
[Jun 25, 2003 2:59:43 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
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Coloring the course charting interface was something we meant to do along with the sea lanes but didn't get the chance. We're working at a furious pace and it slipped through the cracks. We'll try to get that in in the near future.

For the time being, here's a list:

Alpha to Papaya: medium
Alpha to Turtle: easy
Alpha to Byrne: very hard
Alpha to Winter: easy
Alpha to Oyster: medium
Alpha to Cnossos: medium
Turtle to Papaya: medium
Papaya to Byrne: hard
Cnossos to Winter: medium
Winter to Oyster: medium
[Jun 27, 2003 1:25:51 AM] Show Printable Version of Post   [Link]  Go to top 
LonesomeCrow



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I don't know if it has been discussed as of yet, but will these ratings be dynamic, static, or some combo?

As it stands now, getting to Byrne from anywhere could be a dangerous voyage for a solo trader, or even a crew of two PPs (with NPPs). Making trading Iron very risky.

If these routes were dynamically changing (with or without some sort of pattern), I might be able to look for a 'window of opportunity', or a period of time when the route from Alpha to Byrne has dropped in difficulty. This rating may or may not last through the entire round trip, but at least the solo trader would have a better chance of getting in on the iron trade. (or whatever commodity happened to be choked off by difficult routes)

Once the chart is 'color coded' will these colors be calculated according to the ships which are currently running the route? Or just some value that designates it as hard, medium, easy - so that the appropriate color shows up.

I could be way off base here, as Hethor points out, maybe some routes will always be difficult (and should be). But this is another area where, as other threads have pointed out, the balance in the game is seemingly shifting toward largish crews, leaving the loners/cowboys/smaller crews with less of a game, or at least at a disadvantage. How is this solved? I dunno - Perhaps there could be routes that are too shallow/ narrow for large ships, like maybe between the closely arranged Sapphire archipelago Islands.
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Tarrna: [Insignificant] Senior Officer - Sinking Feelings

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[Jun 27, 2003 1:57:11 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Rengor



Joined: Dec 13, 2002
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Based on Jack's info I made a crude map displaying where the various routes are:
Blue=easy. Green=medium. Orange=hard. Red=very hard.



I didn't have all the maps but Im pretty sure I got the routes right.

Also since several routes overlap each other like alpha-ws and alpha-cnossos I assume that the shares leagues have the hardest value.

And I don't know the difficulty of the routes not mentioned.
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[Jun 27, 2003 2:57:45 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Nemo
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LonesomeCrow wrote: 
The balance in the game is seemingly shifting toward largish crews, leaving the loners/cowboys/smaller crews with less of a game, or at least at a disadvantage. How is this solved? I dunno - Perhaps there could be routes that are too shallow/ narrow for large ships.


The disadvantage of a large ship is how much organization and capital it takes to run it and the far larger split of profit afterward.

As for the iron trade, only the absolute best solo sailors could get in on it. Make that your goal, if you like. Otherwise, getting sugarcane to Turtle will be a long, relatively-easy voyage that suits solo trading perfectly.

-Nemo
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[Jun 27, 2003 5:29:33 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Vixen



Joined: May 20, 2003
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Nemo Wrote
 
The disadvantage of a large ship is how much organization and capital it takes to run it and the far larger split of profit afterward.


Totally disaggree, a small boat still has to buy rum/cannonballs in return it gets a smaller ammount of poe taken in booty, has a much more limited amount of targets that it can hit and now is unable to trade in certain commoditities. it also does less cannon damage on bigger ships, since everything bigger than a small sloop you wasting more balls

A lot of smaller crews survived outta making a trade run, now they limited in what they can trade, and lose more on the return trip.

This game should present the same oppertunities to a solo trader as with a ship of 20 pirates, I state again we dont all get to play when there 50 people online, and even if you did, you should still be able to sail a route withough taking a constant beating
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[Jun 27, 2003 9:18:25 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Rengor



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I think I either missed some release changes or not quite understanding..

[quote]a small boat still has to buy rum/cannonballs in return it gets a smaller ammount of poe taken in booty[/quote]
You loose less on a small sloop in sea battle?
Since you'll have more players on a large sloop you will need to buy more rum. I'd say you use more cannons too since you more often have 6 loaded that you are likely to use as opposed to waiting for 2 more to be loaded on a small.


[quote]has a much more limited amount of targets that it can hit[/quote]
A small boat has a limited amount of targets? They seem to be all over the place to me. If anything there's too many of them (mostly running turtle-alpha lately) in my oppinion.


[quote]and now is unable to trade in certain commoditities[/quote]
You can't trade in some commodities on a small sloop?


[quote]it also does less cannon damage on bigger ships, since everything bigger than a small sloop you wasting more balls[/quote]
Is the effect of a cannon shot from a small sloop less than that from a large sloop? If you mean that you generally target larger ships then yeah they can take more I think. But you have 6 cannons now. And it works the other way around too, you too can take more hits in a large.
[/quote]
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[Jun 27, 2003 10:16:08 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
muffy



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Iron run Reply to this Post
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Nemo wrote: 
As for the iron trade, only the absolute best solo sailors could get in on it. Make that your goal, if you like. Otherwise, getting sugarcane to Turtle will be a long, relatively-easy voyage that suits solo trading perfectly.


Humm...maybe I count as "one of the best solo sailors," (I'm not so sure), but I had very little trouble with the iron run today. Once ye're at speed, not much can catch ye, and evasion isn't too bad on a small...
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[Jun 27, 2003 1:58:13 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Sowelu



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Ancient thread but this looks like the best place to suggest:

So there's different NPP-difficulty routes. What about different player-difficulty routes? There isn't much stopping players from preying on the blue routes, and if PvP is supposed to become a bigger part of the game...

Could there be some rating for "Minimum color that can be attacked"? Some hard routes, you could attack cyan or even dark-blue... On the easy PvP routes, you couldn't attack less than yellow or orange.

Of course there would have to be some display to illustrate it while you're at sea... "Black Ship presencec: Cyan" or something, meaning you can attack anything cyan and above.

The hardest trade routes shouldn't be only full of brigands... They should be full of brutal, brutal PvP battles, where the big guys beat up the little guys and take all their stuff--only to have it stolen by an even bigger boat. Flags could utterly dominate routes this way. Maybe flags could use resources to change the difficulty of routes (through navy patrols for brigand difficulty, or something else for Black Ship presence).

I think it'd be really cool to let some players trade without fear of player presence, and make a little money--and let players who want the risk try to brave bigger crews for the Big Haul, with REAL piracy along those routes. If you want to keep the routes to yourself as a flag, you can chase away the Black Ship to prey on the players near your island... Of course you won't get as many resources then... And invaders could prey on YOU!

Mmmmmm.
[Aug 25, 2003 8:55:46 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Ely



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There isn't much stopping players from preying on the blue routes


I think the Black Ship is reasonable stopping power. Plus the incredibly long re-attack timers. The pay-off in those areas, should you NOT call upon the Black Ship, should also be much less than if you were attacking equally powered targets. No one is going to be able to keep PvPing for long if they aren't pulling in a decent income to fund the enterprise.

You'll also have to consider the size of many PvP groups. If you have 12 PvP-minded crewmen packed on a ship, assuming you all have a decent Sea Battle rating, there's just no point in cruising down those easy routes; there will be nada that you can actually attack.

Cleaver says that there is an update coming that will make trade and PvP less frustrating on the wallet, so we will hopefully get a good look at the situation when that time comes. Until then, I'm pretty skeptical that we need even more measures to curb bullying.

And by the way, absolutely agreed on the need for more trade and real piracy. I think this will come naturally as more of the systems are fleshed out.
[Aug 25, 2003 9:55:23 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    Ely114 [Link]  Go to top 
Hanzii



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I understand Silverbeards post. It seems like some people are discussing old news as it was something new... or actually working as intended.
We've had the different difficulty traderoutes for some time now, and nothing has changed.
The small sloop crewed with swabbies is still the best ship for trading.
That is, if your trading for a profit, not just filling up your own shop or helping out a crewmate.

With the new overabundance of wood, it might be worth filling a larger ship in order to get a small profit. But if you don't pillage along the way, I don't see wood making profit soon...

Nemo wrote: 


As for the iron trade, only the absolute best solo sailors could get in on it. Make that your goal, if you like. Otherwise, getting sugarcane to Turtle will be a long, relatively-easy voyage that suits solo trading perfectly.

-Nemo


I like the idea of being one of the best. But fact is, if you're a good navigator a sloop with 3 swabbies will be at full speed just after the first league point and nobody will catch you.
... and even between Papaya and Byrne, I win 50% of my fights with brigands with three swabbies crewing my sloop, on the rare occurance that I'm caught.

(and it's not because I choose good swabbies, for those who still believe in that. All swabbies are equal, and I sail with whoever the game chooses for me)
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Hanzii - shipbuilder (retired), Turtle
[Aug 25, 2003 5:09:30 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.lauring.net [Link]  Go to top 
Sling_Blade



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"are swabbies are equal"

are you sure? Why do they have different ratings if they are all the same?
[Sep 4, 2003 12:03:17 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
burrito



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Umm, what are the difficulty ratings for the sea lanes in Emerald? And the lanes between the archipelagos?
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[Sep 4, 2003 12:42:02 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    burrito+OMG [Link]  Go to top 
stevoid



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Sling_Blade wrote: 
"are swabbies are equal"

are you sure? Why do they have different ratings if they are all the same?


Cos pirates fight them. There's another thread about this somewhere...but it's 7am & I need some sleep...
[Sep 4, 2003 2:54:40 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
kurosh



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So what are the current difficulties for routes?
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[Sep 6, 2003 4:27:49 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Nemo
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stevoid wrote: 
Sling_Blade wrote: 
"are swabbies are equal"

are you sure? Why do they have different ratings if they are all the same?


Cos pirates fight them. There's another thread about this somewhere...but it's 7am & I need some sleep...


This is being changed. Swabbies shouldn't change rank (since their actual skill level stays the same), but they do. I believe Peghead may have already fixed this for the next release. If not, he will soon.

-Nemo
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[Sep 6, 2003 9:34:38 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Feltope



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Nemo wrote: 
If not, he will soon.


/me watches nemo crack his whip.

heh,
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[Sep 6, 2003 10:17:56 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
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