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Forums » List all forums » Forum: Game Design » Thread: On Pillaging and the Art of Running a Ship |
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Thread Status: Normal Total posts in this thread: 921
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Shuranthae
Joined: Apr 1, 2004 Posts: 9758 Status: Offline |
Um... no. You guys haven't shown me what makes you think scammers only do so to get immediate poe over effortless poe. If you had, please quote this section and simply requote the post that you answered this. You also haven't answered me where scammers will go or what they'll do after auto divy is removed. If you have, please quote this section and requote the answering post. |
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CaptDingus
 Joined: Apr 21, 2006 Posts: 444 Status: Offline |
We have? You quoted two different links. One was very specific to your question and not responded to except to say "We've been here." If so, what was the answer?
That too. It would certainly be helpful in knowing how best to respond in subsequent posts. ---------------------------------------- [Edit 1 times, last edit by CaptDingus at Aug 10, 2007 5:04:54 PM] |
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Shuranthae
Joined: Apr 1, 2004 Posts: 9758 Status: Offline |
Nevermind that I asked the question like five times already and have yet to get an answer. |
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CaptDingus
Joined: Apr 21, 2006 Posts: 444 Status: Offline |
The last link was in response to this post. It is different from the first link, and has never been addressed, hence my confusion as to why you consider this to have been covered. |
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mantus23
Joined: Dec 16, 2003 Posts: 1040 Status: Offline |
/em looks into his crystal ball and says "It looks like they are going to Sizzler for Shrimpfest." ---------------------------------------- "The Colonel" Sanders Blockade Technology Division: Notorious Fandango Not not not Governor of Endurance or Nu. Not Spoppy's husband ---------------------------------------- [Edit 1 times, last edit by mantus23 at Aug 10, 2007 5:13:44 PM] |
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Astrolabe1
Joined: Jun 30, 2005 Posts: 1091 Status: Offline |
CaptDing answered you, among other places,HERE I explictly answered this exact question, with a specific list of possible activities, one of the first times you asked it (what is this now, your fifth post which has ignored those answers and simply repeated the question without any indication of what you found unsatisfying in those answers... if you even read them at all? ) HERE. And, as yet another post answering this exact same question one of the first times you raised it -- HERE pointed out, this discussion of removing or seriously modifying autodivvy is NOT about to "cure" the selfishness of players or remove scammers from the game, but simply to remove this game mechanic which attracts them to ruining the noticeboard and pillaging for everyone. If you want to talk about "How do we remove selfish behavior from YPP" start a new thread -- this thread is about Pillaging. Please review the original post. As far as pillaging goes, we don't care where the scammers go. Perhaps they'll go back to getting their "poe now!!!" -- which is what they're after -- with the navy, stalls, or just selling doubs. Perhaps they'll find some new way to scam the system at other people's expense, at which point that new issue can be examined and fixed. But as long as autodivvy is present as it is now, the "I want poez now!!!!" crowd will continue to flock to one-battle laze-on-a-station pillaging as the quickest and easiest way to get immediate poe for little to no effort... and thus (and this is what makes this the real problem) ruining notice-board-using pillages for all players in the process. As also has been repeatedly pointed out to you, autodivvy often rewards such "scammers" before they can be diagnosed and planked, because they're around for a single battle and get autodivvy pay. Without autodivvy, there's enough time (including their first battle) to detect them and plank them and then prevent them from getting any pay -- meaning scammers not only get no immediate poe but get no poe at all for scamming a pillage -- and so cease to attempt scamming them. (So NO THEY CANNOT JUST DO IT FOR TWO BATTLES ON THAT PILLAGE if autodivvy is removed, even if they wanted to, capiche?) This question (in its various incarnations) has been answered for you HERE and HERE and HERE and HERE and HERE and HERE... among others. Now please do not simply repeat your same questions over and over any more. If you have a specific disagreement with all these answers given to you by myself and others, quote the specific point in these answers with which you disagree and explain exactly why you disagree with that specific point. Short of that, it's a pointless waste of time to continue to shout into the void when you (as best as I can judge) ignore all the posts giving specific answers to your questions and simply keep repeating them. I, for one, am now done with facilitating that sort of behavior by continuing to answer your repetitions. If you want to simply repeat the questions some more, you may take the links listed above as the default answer to that repetition. - Astro ---------------------------------------- ASTROLABE To tl;dr-ers... is this because you have the attention span of a stunned badger or the intelligence of one? :-P My HWFO post Pillaging anecdotes |
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Dylan
Joined: Jul 21, 2003 Posts: 9820 Status: Offline |
You'll shut up for a bit? The heavens align! |
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Astrolabe1
Joined: Jun 30, 2005 Posts: 1091 Status: Offline |
You know, if you removed all my posts which were responses to willful misconstructions (e.g. "You want to kill casual pillaging") or character assassination (e.g. "Astro hates anyone who doesn't pillage the way he does") or repetitions of the exact same question which ignored my initial replies (e.g. just about everything Shur has posted today)... you'd find I've made surprisingly few posts. Perhaps you might wish to apportion some of your irritation to those who made such additional posts necessary. - Astro ---------------------------------------- ASTROLABE To tl;dr-ers... is this because you have the attention span of a stunned badger or the intelligence of one? :-P My HWFO post Pillaging anecdotes ---------------------------------------- [Edit 1 times, last edit by Astrolabe1 at Aug 10, 2007 5:36:37 PM] |
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Flak_88
Joined: Aug 14, 2004 Posts: 2585 Status: Offline |
/e lubs Sanders! CaptDingus, I like your data. Basically People ARE abandoning pillages for poker buyin. The game has recently been redesigned with immediate payout in almost every setting, pillage, blockade, flotilla, navy, active labor. You have 2 major game design issues colliding, poker and pillaging. You cannot have both until game design is fixed. The solution, either raise the minimum buyin greatly over any possible payout (thereby "forcing" people to play longer stretches of the game), or keep poker the same and fix all the noncasual aspects of pillaging. These include boarding/deboarding in battle, any pillage ramp (need some sort of sea battle rating restored but that doesn't penalize you for going on low end pillage), lazers, some of the longer island routes. You have a game you designed to penalize you for anything but hard core pillaging, then added a very non pillaging activity at the same time as changing 1/2 the elements to be casual when the basic design completely fights this. ---------------------------------------- Flakcannon, on all English Oceans, except that imposter on Malachite. Farming, cleaning up your poo, and making you drink it. |
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Shuranthae
Joined: Apr 1, 2004 Posts: 9758 Status: Offline |
Can someone please tell me why Astro keeps ignoring my argument that people are likely scamming more due to the "effort" factor than the "immediate" factor in trying to "answer" all my questions? Or, for that matter, why Dingus keeps answering my question as if I asked a completely different question? I dunno, it seems to me that if you completely ignore the big picture and just focus on trying to fix some little thing that lets some people scam right now, it won't really change much in the long run. I don't have a problem with people asking to be able to set their own divy standards. Hell, I don't even have a problem with people arguing against auto divy. It just seems off to say that removing auto divy will stop scamming, period. Am I not properly presenting points that would suggest that removing auto divy won't stop people from scamming or something? Isn't it faulty logic to just say that people will stop scamming if something is done and not address what those scammers will do and how they might scam the system afterwards? It seems to me that not addressing such a situation would lead to a repeat of what we're trying to stop... |
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cmdrzoom
Joined: Jul 25, 2003 Posts: 7242 Status: Offline |
I agree. Removing auto-divvy will not, ipso facto, make all scammers quit the game. It'll just get (most of) them off Astro's ship and looking for some other scam, a new bottom to feed off of. There always seems to be one. ---------------------------------------- Starhawk of Mad Mutineers, Azure Catalina of Twilight's Sabre, Cobalt |
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Astrolabe1
Joined: Jun 30, 2005 Posts: 1091 Status: Offline |
THIS THREAD HAS NOT BEEN ABOUT STOPPING ALL SCAMMING ON YPP WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT THAT OVERARCHING ISSUE HERE, as already has been pointed out to you several times. This thread is about pillaging. And a large part of this discussion has been about autodivvy and the effects it has had on the noticeboard and those pillages which use jobbers from the noticeboard. Autodivvy creates a situation -- one which did not exist before autodivvy -- where people can hop onto a player pillage, do little or no work (causing damage to the ship in the process), take a cut of the winnings from the battle (winnings they did not help earn), and then jump away, often leaving a sabotaged pillage behind. Because of autodivvy, the IGSY (Instant Gratification Screw You) crowd has discoverd that exploiting and sabotaging player-led pillages for one battle and then hopping off is the quickest way to get poe for little or no work. This phenomenon -- and the inability of /planking or other solutions to stop it as things are currently constituted -- and the consequences for who is using the noticeboard and for what sort of pillages new players get to see -- is described, ad nauseum above. You may read those posts if you are interested in the discussion we are having on this thread. THE RELATED DISCUSSIONS AND POSTS ON THIS THREAD HAVE BEEN HOW TO STOP THIS PARTICULAR EXPLOIT, an exploit the possibility of which was created by autodivvy. Where these "scamming" players were before autodivvy drew them all to jobbing from the noticeboard, and where they might go afterwards (if a solution to this autodivvy-created problem can be found) IS IRRELEVANT TO THIS THREAD. If you would like to talk about "how to stop any scamming from happening anywhere in YPP", feel free to start up a new thread. You might well generate an interesting conversation there -- its a good question and worth discussion. But THIS THREAD is about several specific pillaging-related issues (including autodivvy), and the posts on it have been addressing these issues, not this much huger one of "all scamming on YPP." Please check out the OP to see the topics being discussed in this thread if you're still unsure what they are. - Astro ---------------------------------------- ASTROLABE To tl;dr-ers... is this because you have the attention span of a stunned badger or the intelligence of one? :-P My HWFO post Pillaging anecdotes |
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sweetnessc
Joined: Nov 10, 2004 Posts: 16069 Status: Offline |
I'd speculate it's because you keep ignoring the already posted answers to the questions you're asking, instead of explaining why you think that they're wrong? :-P It's already been pointed out that removing autodivvy makes the least effort option be putting in some contribution towards the pillage. That takes care of the "effort" factor as far as it relates to pillages. Dealing only with pillaging won't fix human nature. It might fix pillaging though, which is kind of a core aspect of the game. The battle to prevent all scamming won't be won until the game ends, because there will always be scammers about. Not that I'm even convinced it is a question of scamming. Personally I think it's just a question of setting up incentives that reward the wrong type of behaviour, instead of incentivizing the type of behaviour we would like to see. ---------------------------------------- My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world. ~ Jack Layton Sublime is shame. |
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Astrolabe1
Joined: Jun 30, 2005 Posts: 1091 Status: Offline |
True... but it would at least cease to sabotage pillaging -- and, in the process, the "pillaging experience" of new players. Frankly, before autodivvy there really wasn't a scam (at least not that I"m aware of) which was so injurious to so many people and had such a significant effect on a central part of the game. And, really, it's not quite fair to most of these folks to say that they are trying to "scam" others... no, I think they're simply looking for the quickest way to make poe for the least effort. They are, after all, pirates. So I think it's unfair to suggest that they were necessarily doing something nefarious before autodivvy, and necessarily will go off and do something nefarious if we can get rid of the exploit created by autodivvy. That's making them out to be more malicious than they are. (I've argued elsewhere that some of them may not even realize what they're doing hurts others -- frankly, I think many simply don't care one way or the other, they're just pursuing the behavior which the game mechanics promotes.) Take away this hurt-other-people-while-getting-quick-poe option which autodivvy has created as the easiest get-poe-quick, and they'll simply go back to whatever the next best quick-poe-making activity is which they can find. Not necessarily go off to find some "scam". The problem simply is that autodivvy has created a situation where the game is rewarding and promoting -- and, I fear, institutionalizing -- this sort of IGSY-pillage-destroying behavior. And it's the solution to that particular pillaging problem we've been talking about here... - Astro ---------------------------------------- ASTROLABE To tl;dr-ers... is this because you have the attention span of a stunned badger or the intelligence of one? :-P My HWFO post Pillaging anecdotes ---------------------------------------- [Edit 1 times, last edit by Astrolabe1 at Aug 10, 2007 7:16:12 PM] |
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Shuranthae
Joined: Apr 1, 2004 Posts: 9758 Status: Offline |
What Astro fails to understand in my question asking is that I don't believe the problem of scamming is tied into auto divy. I've presented arguments that show why I believe that to be the case. He is arguing that auto divy is the cause of most of the scamming that happens today so my arguing that auto divy doesn't cause scamming is exactly what this thread is about. I mean how can you argue that auto divy causes scamming and that removing auto divy is the answer without considering what scammers will do next? ---------------------------------------- [Edit 1 times, last edit by Shuranthae at Aug 10, 2007 7:27:04 PM] |
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Astrolabe1
Joined: Jun 30, 2005 Posts: 1091 Status: Offline |
NO THEY CANNOT As has already been pointed out to you, repeatedly, remove autodivy and these players cannot profit on pillages with the same no-effort behavior they use now. My multi-link reply to your all-the-same-questions-all-over-again post gives, in its last section, half a dozen posts which addressing this mistake you keep making. I won't bother to repeat those discussions here.
I have yet to see any arguments from you -- merely the same questions and statements repeated over and over, without any rational argument or reasoning either to support your position nor to show why you disagree with the answers given to you.
WRONG I am arguing that autodivvy has created a situation in which those players who are seeking the way in which the game offers the most-immediate-poe-for-least-effort have learned to turn to sabotaging player pillages as the place where (because of autodivvy) they can find this, because that's what, with autodivy, the game now rewards. I am not, and never have, been discussing the "origins of a scamming mindset" or "what causes scamming". I am not, and never have been, attempting to propose a "how to remove the scamming mindset from YPP" solution, but merely how to undo the terrible effect upon noticeboard jobbers and jobbing which autodivvy has created. I cannot believe that, if you'd actually thoughtfully read any of the posts about autodivvy in this thread, you could keep failing to realize this.
No, it has nothing to do with what this thread was about... it merely reflects your abject failure to understand the actual discussion going on here. Sorry to be so blunt, but there it is. - Astro ---------------------------------------- ASTROLABE To tl;dr-ers... is this because you have the attention span of a stunned badger or the intelligence of one? :-P My HWFO post Pillaging anecdotes ---------------------------------------- [Edit 2 times, last edit by Astrolabe1 at Aug 10, 2007 8:07:38 PM] |
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cmdrzoom
Joined: Jul 25, 2003 Posts: 7242 Status: Offline |
Good. Astro, I think part of the problem you're having is that people are missing points in your long umbrella posts (or simply not reading them). Repetition of everything they "failed to get" is not the solution. The fault is as much with your presentation as others' lack of comprehension. Keep your posts short, concise and on-point, and I believe that you will get a better response. Brevity is the soul of wit. ---------------------------------------- Starhawk of Mad Mutineers, Azure Catalina of Twilight's Sabre, Cobalt |
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Astrolabe1
Joined: Jun 30, 2005 Posts: 1091 Status: Offline |
I'd give more credance to that notion if the short posts weren't ignored as well. :-P I think on these forums people tend to get an idee fixee and then don't bother to actually read what others write (short or long) but just keep running with their idea. Thus the unfortunate need of multiple repetitions of "no, what I'm actually saying is this..." before it seems to sink in. -Astro ---------------------------------------- ASTROLABE To tl;dr-ers... is this because you have the attention span of a stunned badger or the intelligence of one? :-P My HWFO post Pillaging anecdotes |
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Shuranthae
Joined: Apr 1, 2004 Posts: 9758 Status: Offline |
I also think you and Dingus assume too much both in why you think people act the way they do and how they will act once something is changed. For example, looking at the very first sentence I wrote in this post, I would think that your "multiple references you made to people lazing/being in tourneys/talking on AIM while puzzling/doing other things that is essentially scamming," would have a much greater impact on pillaging than removing auto divy. |
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imwamphyr
Joined: Aug 29, 2004 Posts: 7638 Status: Offline |
He doesn't understand. He thinks it was answered by that other guy who claimed that if you took the immediate way to scam away, all the "scammers" would suddenly turn into hardworking contributing members of society. Instead of going back to other non-immediate but still easy methods of earning poe, like foraging. And if that makes him happy, okie. But if his numbers are true, and the majority of his jobbers are scammers...then he'll have no jobbers at all so I don't know why we're discussing this as a "fix to pillaging". Except that you don't believe they'll find something else to do. You do believe they'll suddenly become hardworking pillagers. *shrugs* ---------------------------------------- Selling my Grunion Collection! 174 ships, 164 sloops, ALL GRUNIONS! ---------------------------------------- [Edit 1 times, last edit by imwamphyr at Aug 10, 2007 9:03:13 PM] |
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cmdrzoom
Joined: Jul 25, 2003 Posts: 7242 Status: Offline |
If I may... In its current form, auto-divvy makes it easier for the serial-pillage-scammer to evade a -1 for their lazing, particularly if the OIC is not quick and attentive enough. If you didn't plank and -1 them by the time the battle's over and they leave, you can't touch them. EDIT: Possible solution: Be more attentive. ---------------------------------------- Starhawk of Mad Mutineers, Azure Catalina of Twilight's Sabre, Cobalt ---------------------------------------- [Edit 1 times, last edit by cmdrzoom at Aug 10, 2007 9:08:56 PM] |
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Astrolabe1
Joined: Jun 30, 2005 Posts: 1091 Status: Offline |
please listen v e r y c a r e f u l l y... autodivvy: * lazing jobber joins, gets on a station, hits esc * battle starts * lazer is unproductive * battle ends * lazer is confronted * lazer leaves or is planked * lazer still gets some pay right away no auto divvy: * lazing jobber joins, gets on a station, hits esc * battle starts * lazer is unproductive * battle ends * lazer is confronted, and still doesn't cooperate * lazer is planked ... * ship ports and lazer is -1ed * lazer gets NO PAY How the hell many times does this have to be repeated over and over and over to you again?! WITH AUTODIVVY, unless you are able to diagnose them before battle, IGSY jobbers always get immediate pay for doing nothing. WITHOUT AUTODIVVY, unless they can fool you for two full battles, which is unlikely, lazers get no pay at all. So you are wrong WRONG WRONG when you suggest that removing autodivvy won't remove the regular practice of "scamming" pillages this way... WITHOUT AUTODIVVY THE LAZING WILL NOT WORK!!!! Which, in fact, is why this problem only exploded into being such a huge problem -- to the point where regular pillagers have ceased using the noticeboard entirely -- only after autodivvy was implemented. I won't bother again going over all the "global" effects the presence of all these IGSY-jobbers on the noticeboard has on pillaging as a whole - and the experience of new players - that's all covered at length in this thread already. - Astro ---------------------------------------- ASTROLABE To tl;dr-ers... is this because you have the attention span of a stunned badger or the intelligence of one? :-P My HWFO post Pillaging anecdotes |
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cmdrzoom
Joined: Jul 25, 2003 Posts: 7242 Status: Offline |
Oh, quite possibly. But at least they wouldn't be deceiving him and wasting his time? *shrug* At that point, it ceases to be a game design problem and more a "this is the sort of player that Three Rings chose to market their game to" problem. EDIT: ASTRO. STOP. Just STOP. The problem there is that you are not noticing before battle that your jobbers are lazing, and taking appropriate action. As the original subject of this thread noted, running a ship is an art. Sounds like you may be booching it. ---------------------------------------- Starhawk of Mad Mutineers, Azure Catalina of Twilight's Sabre, Cobalt ---------------------------------------- [Edit 3 times, last edit by cmdrzoom at Aug 10, 2007 9:15:36 PM] |
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majestrate
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I still want to know why I'm not seeing the same issues as what are being described. Yes, I don't normally take anyone/everyone that applies, but that shouldn't be a difficult approach to take. If you can't fill a WB within 5 or 10 minutes, with quality (e.g. experienced) jobbers, then why not bump down to a dhow? If you can't man that, then drop to a sloop. If you can't fill a sloop, then why in the world did you start out with a WB? I think you need to lower your expectations on what size of ship you can effectively run. Also, your attitude in writ needs to be adjusted slightly. Or at least shorten your posts, so that the attitude is minimized. ---------------------------------------- Two of the best "Nostradamus" posts regarding this game, one right after the other... http://forums.puzzlepirates.com/community/mvnforum/viewthread?thread=3802&offset=20#37530 |
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Astrolabe1
Joined: Jun 30, 2005 Posts: 1091 Status: Offline |
Yawn. WRONG This issue ALREADY EXPLICITLY ADDRESSED IN THIS THREAD. HERE andHERE for example. Here's the relevant sections to save you the bother of clicking.
So:
Nope. Totally wrong. Totally totally wrong. Exactly the opposite of what I"ve explicitly said. I believe they'll go away and leave the people actually interested in the pillaging puzzle -- and the teamwork and the socializing -- in peace. -Astro ---------------------------------------- ASTROLABE To tl;dr-ers... is this because you have the attention span of a stunned badger or the intelligence of one? :-P My HWFO post Pillaging anecdotes ---------------------------------------- [Edit 1 times, last edit by Astrolabe1 at Aug 10, 2007 11:15:18 PM] |
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Astrolabe1
Joined: Jun 30, 2005 Posts: 1091 Status: Offline |
/me points out that this is the experience of many many pillagers - and experience pillagers - not just mine. Also, as also pointed out by plenty of other people, with the majority of jobbers being IGSY-jobbers now, taking on jobbers has lots of overhead of testing them out, and leaves you frequently understaffed... and, often, not finding out who's a problem jobber until after battle. But you still want to blame it all on me, say it's all in my head, say I'm making up the problem or booching the pillaging or just plain off my rocker. Well, let's take a survey of what other posters and pillagers are saying on this subject, shall we? Before claiming it's all in Astro's head or just his own poor pillaging, how about you read the following reflections on autodivvy and its effects from other people... Here, for your initial consideration, is what someone else on a different ocean wrote in describing the typical"jobbing with today's noticeboard" phenomenon HERE
And, in response, this post
How aboutthis one
And this
And this (reflecting the results which dissuading good OICs from using the noticeboard has had)
And similarlythis
And this
And this
And this
And this
And this
And this
And this
And this
And this
On the loss of the active pillage crews and their social life, another consequence, see this one
On the results of vanishing jobbers autodivvy promotes, this
And on the inaccessability of good pillages to new playersthis
How about this one?
A comparison of a "hearty pillage" to a "noticeboard pillage" is here
Or this?
On the actual destruction of casual pillaging (at least casual good pillaging) by autodivvy, see this
On autodivvy as part of a set of changes which is killing not just pillaging but YPP, see this
More on the alienation of good pillagers from the notice board here
And this one
On how the results of autodivvy have alienated players from pillaging there's this example
And, from the same pirate, this
... I recall a number of other very choice posts which I can't seem to find off hand -- several about players ready to quit the game over frustration with how awful using the noticeboard has become since autodivvy -- but it's getting late and I think the above gives a fairly representative sample, even if its nowhere near comprehensive. But before you play this weeks favorite game of "ignore and flame Astro" or claim that I'm making it all up or that this is merely me being incompetent to lead pillages, how about you take a look through that list of what lots of other players on lots of oceans -- many of them expert pillage leaders -- have experienced before you play the "oh, it's just Astro, he's wordy so we can ignore everything his says" card. - Astro ---------------------------------------- ASTROLABE To tl;dr-ers... is this because you have the attention span of a stunned badger or the intelligence of one? :-P My HWFO post Pillaging anecdotes ---------------------------------------- [Edit 1 times, last edit by Astrolabe1 at Aug 10, 2007 11:07:04 PM] |
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cmdrzoom
Joined: Jul 25, 2003 Posts: 7242 Status: Offline |
If you're going to post links, then don't also bloat the thread further by quoting. I agree with you, and I'm about ready to stop listening to you. ---------------------------------------- Starhawk of Mad Mutineers, Azure Catalina of Twilight's Sabre, Cobalt |
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Grinfish
Joined: May 24, 2004 Posts: 7938 Status: Offline |
How about we give 50/50 split and the other modifications a try before we go any further on this. Or do you insist that they stop now and reverse all their planned modifications without them going live for the true test - releasing the animals into the Wild. ED: oh yeah, one other thing. Yeah, they leave after one battle, and pocket a couple of hundred PoE. But at least they're effectively planking themselves and saving me doing it. ---------------------------------------- Whitewyvern. Distinctly Limey. Retired, No regrets. Now with occasional logging-in for purely social purposes.
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Lizthegrey
Developer (retired) Joined: Jul 22, 2004 Posts: 6917 Status: Offline |
For what it's worth, I was on a player war brig on Viridian filled entirely from the noticeboard on a yellow alt last night. There were maybe about 4 crew members on the boat, and the rest were jobbers. While there was a significant amount of churn (about 2-3 after each battle), the majority were due to logging off rather than going off to play poker - I think I saw only maybe one or two people in total in the 5-6 battles we fought that went home and played poker immediately after leaving the ship. Perhaps my experience is atypical, and I do intend to semi-anonymously pillage a bit more (and maybe lead a few pillages myself) over the weekend to get a good idea of the situation. If anything, I would argue that autodivy provides significant incentive to prevent logging off during battle by giving immediate reward for sticking around until the end of the battle. That, in and of itself, is very significant. I noticed markedly few people logging off or abandoning during battle compared to my past experience with noticeboard hiring. While I wouldn't say that this is necessarily a design goal of autodivy, it is indeed at least a beneficial side effect people are ignoring. While there may still be some problems with people failing to put forth effort, I think that people should wait and see whether the 50/50 split is effective in preventing lazing before deciding that the entire system is broken. ---------------------------------------- [Edit 2 times, last edit by Lizthegrey at Aug 11, 2007 1:13:05 AM] |
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Rick9109
 Joined: Sep 19, 2003 Posts: 6609 Status: Offline |
I don't honestly believe they're doing it to go play poker. At least on midnight. They usually just stick for a battle then log. This was already a growing problem-but this really ramped it up into high gear. Indeed fewer people leave in battle, but that's like pointing out that someone who got their foot cut off won't have to worry about buying shoes anymore. Most of the leaving seemed to go on during a person's second or third battle (and still is when it usually takes place when it does happen). And hey I'm reasonable. I'm willing to give the 50/50 thing a chance. ---------------------------------------- Rome Pirates of the Damned, Crimson Tide. These are the days and the ways that I can never forget. So I don't forget it. ---------------------------------------- [Edit 2 times, last edit by Rick9109 at Aug 11, 2007 1:25:50 AM] |
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