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homullus

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Re: Carpenty Tips Reply to this Post
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I have to say, I don't like the new rarity distribution. The challenge used to be to get your remaining hole to be Utah-shaped . . . now, you have no ability to plan . . . so it's much more luck now.
[Aug 13, 2003 1:26:35 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    homullus [Link]  Go to top 
Ostracizor



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You mean this used to be *EASIER* Reply to this Post
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Wow. I have had quite a bit of success even with the new rarity distribution. (#5 All time currently). Having never experienced the old distribution I am left giddy at the idea of even MORE "Utah"s with which to finish holes (not WHOLES, people). I would say that about 33% of my puzzles wait on "Utah"s to finish them, and frequently that still works.

Speaking of ratings: Two questions (and an observation):

A) Does experience play any kind of weighting factor in your overall leaderboard performance ranking? In other words would someone who consistently performs "very well" over a long period of time surpass someone else who performs "excellently" a very few times? My experience so far leads me to believe the answer to be "yes", but confirmation is always a good thing.

B) I have noticed during prolonged puzzling sessions (on trading runs or navy jobs) the trend of the initial puzzle sizes increasing. This both reduces the number of puzzles completeable per unit time and the likelihood of "Masterpiecing" a puzzle (and you can almost abandon hope of a grain match). However, despite my reduced performance, my Duty reports and rankings do not seem to suffer. Are the larger puzzles "worth" more?

C) I have noticed that "momentum" is preserved across "waypoints" and at the conclusion of a sea battle that concludes with a swordfight (win or lose). By momentum, I mean that if my hammer is pounding golden sparks going into the battle, it remains that way after the battle. However, if the sea battle concludes with one party disengaging, the hammer is re-initialized to the dull black/gray starter setting. Is this intentional, and if so, why?

Thanks for your time and attention.

Makalya
[Aug 13, 2003 1:44:04 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Nemo
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homullus wrote: 
I have to say, I don't like the new rarity distribution. The challenge used to be to get your remaining hole to be Utah-shaped . . . now, you have no ability to plan . . . so it's much more luck now.


The new what now? I'm not at the office just now, but I can't possibly believe they would change the distribution. I don't see where any of us said anything to that effect, so I am very curious as to where this rumor started. If it is not a rumor and is, in fact, the truth, please excuse me and I will redirect my wrath to my crewmates. However, I think I can be reasonably assured in saying:

There is no change in piece probability.

-Nemo
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-Avatar by AlexisAngel-
[Aug 13, 2003 2:37:12 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
homullus

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Wow . .. just bad luck then . . . after we decided to go visit the Black Ship, I was on carpentry for the first time since the last update. I was carpenting a rather long time (as you can imagine), and for that time got a small fraction of the Utah-piece and the other normally-common one (the L with the block sticking out). Almost all the pieces were + and really long ones and [ pieces, to the point where I frequently had two of each of those pieces in the box. It was bizarre. Must have been a fluke.
[Aug 13, 2003 6:00:57 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    homullus [Link]  Go to top 
Theodore



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...I can't believe it took me this long to notice this; in the rarity list, the rarer pieces are deliberately ordered alphabetically, aren't they? S, T, U, V, W, X, (no Y), Z, then the 1x5.

A useful aide-memoire, I suppose. :-)

- Theodore
[Aug 13, 2003 9:58:49 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
joedigriz

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Mainly just posting to bump this back up for anyone who might be looking for carpentry tips. Trust me, it helps a lot. After reading this thread, I went from being fairly inconsistent to actually being able to pull off about 2 Masterpieces out of every 5 holes. And sometimes much better than that. (Had a string of 4 or 5 consecutive masterpieces at one point, which is obviously part luck, but I still needed to place the pieces right....)
----------------------------------------
Garbuck - Red Mantis Scapegoat and Pretty Pretty Princess
[Aug 24, 2003 11:13:38 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    jal_95    joedigriz [Link]  Go to top 
Jer



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Bumping, since I authored a massive Carpentry Tutorial complete with videos to accompany the tips.

I'm trying to put out feelers for just how useful it is for me to make tutorials like this.

Carpentry Tutorial

I demonstrate how to carp well, from the very basics, to complicated technique. The last movie is a two minute clip of me simply working the puzzle, and demonstrating what good carpentry should look like.

I'll author more of these if there's interest, and if this is of any use. Bilging and gunnery are up next, since it's semi-impossible to explain good bilging technique without pictures or movies, and there's zilch on gunnery anyway.

~Jericho
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[size=9]I'm Jericho.
[Sep 17, 2003 12:49:34 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.pp-nest.net/ [Link]  Go to top 
burrito



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Carpentry becomes a million times easier once you understand it completely. Before I knew all the tricks, I got a lot of Fair Jobs and now I masterpiece about 4 out of 5 times.
----------------------------------------
-Peppy, Senior Officer of the Salty Mouthfuls
"Yarr, thar be stairs here."

1st Place, First Drinking Contest, Gaea 24 Hour Bash
2nd Place, Cayte's Sword Tournament, 9/29
[Sep 17, 2003 2:20:28 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    burrito+OMG [Link]  Go to top 
atteSmythe

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Jer, great job on the tutorial. I think that's very useful information to have.

atteSmythe,
who's glad you stuck with it.
----------------------------------------
 
Attesmythe receives loot: [Gauntlets of Social Responsibility]
Attesmythe receives loot: [Ring of Mandatory Selflessness]

[Sep 18, 2003 1:58:45 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://attesmythe.com [Link]  Go to top 
laetorrrrr



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2nd piece Reply to this Post
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Bocheezu wrote: 
I find that currently the only time I really run into problems is when I become too reliant on the P piece. Quite often I'll have all four holes all nice and flush and I could get 4 masterpieces if I got like 6 Ps in a row. This, of course, never happens, and I usually get the cross or a T (another piece I hate) instead and it booches everything up.

Right now I'm trying to find ways to properly use the squiggly messed-up piece (the 2nd most frequent piece) since its frequency is so high. It's hard to set up a hole to make this the finishing piece and I've only done it a handful of times. It's just a very irregular shape and not easy for me to visualize how it would combine with other pieces.


Holy crap, I hate that piece. Really, really really do.
[Sep 19, 2003 5:20:00 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
spinn

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laetorrrrr wrote: 
Holy crap, I hate that piece. Really, really really do.

You and me both. I'm trying to visualize it as a cross piece with a problem, but I hate that piece too, so.
----------------------------------------
And thus, the message is concluded.
[Sep 19, 2003 6:40:46 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.spinnwebe.com/ [Link]  Go to top 
atteSmythe

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I love that piece! I use it all the times, it's oen of my favorites.

atteSmythe,
who really hates the T, though.
----------------------------------------
 
Attesmythe receives loot: [Gauntlets of Social Responsibility]
Attesmythe receives loot: [Ring of Mandatory Selflessness]

[Sep 19, 2003 6:48:45 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://attesmythe.com [Link]  Go to top 
triskaideka



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Try to use the 2nd-most-common piece early in the hole, in a small indentation on the sides. It's actually a pretty useful piece, but I almost never set up a hole where it's the finisher. You're right that it's too hard to visualize.

It can be useful for patching up Craftsmanships or Fair Jobs, too. Which is also what I almost always do with the cross (+).
[Sep 19, 2003 6:54:33 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
garf



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there can be no doubt that the + piece is the curse of carpentry. if i be carpin, ye can regularly (depending on the rngs mood) hear me semi-swear (as i avoid swearin..) about being triple-crossed again.
----------------------------------------
- Randal

[size=9]also Garf, Silvain and a few others
[Sep 19, 2003 6:55:23 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    garf+on+aim [Link]  Go to top 
Matthias

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I've snickered along with most of those on the top ten board at everyone who's quite poor at carp. I've found it a source of wonder that a large portion of the game haven't worked out they can flip and rotate pieces

However, I'm fairly mediocre at carp, and I've found more than a few tips here that I'll use. Hopefully I can claw my way to the few, the proud.

Anyway, the best advice I can give is to use all four holes. Spot likely places to stick the nastier pieces (namely the S, the X and the mutant cross) and keep them free.

Well, the best advice I can give is to notice what the rightmouse button and the wheel do.

Matt
----------------------------------------
I took my own advice.
[Sep 19, 2003 11:08:11 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
FatalX



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More carp tips:

I would also suggest you work around the edges of the hole... it's easier to fill the middle at the end, rather than looking for that long piece, or even any piece that's 3 long with a turn (T or L).

I find the easiest second-to-last hole to fill at the end is to get:

OO
OO
OOO
OOO

This takes two pieces to fill, with different combinations doing it (Two of the most common, L with a 3and2 bend, S with a corner). It also tends to be easy to make, if you work the edges first.

More tips:

- First thing to do when you FIRST start carp is to finish one box right away. This will almost always get your hammer flying (it may be dependant on your standing), so you will get incredible on your first (and hopefully all) carps.

- I tend to focus on one corner (down to one piece, preferably one of the two most common), and then split your attention two the two adjacent to that box, once you're going, you can try and leave the top three for a hole, they come up a lot Try and make it so your looking for a different one in each box. Only place pieces in the fourth box when you must, so that you will have a box to fill if you really don't get the pieces you need with the other boxes... the beauty of this is that you can keep moving the screen, so you always have an empty box somewhere.

- Fill jagged long holes first. Ie, if you have a smooth square box to fill, but there is a 2 hole deep on the bottom right, fill that first, because if you leave it to last, you probably won't get the specific long piece you need, whereas if you fill it first, you have a few options.

- It's better to overlap a piece and get a craftmanship, rather than let a piece fall out and go for the masterpiece.

- Never let a puzzle expand by a piece, you take a big hit to your momentum, and it will be a craftmanship for sure.

- Only leave carp and restart if 3 or 4 of the puzzles are truly booched (say, you have 3 crosses waiting). If you carp for more than a couple of leagues, the puzzles get much larger, but not that much harder. Work the edges and fill the long holes as soon as possible. The larger holes with a masterpiece will really get your momentum flying.

*EDIT* for patch November 22, 2003

With the new patch, you get bonuses for consecutive craftmanships. This opens up the need for new strategies.

- First, it's almost impossible to get incredible on your first league, simply because the holes are generally much larger now, so you have to fill one as fast as possible, but you will probably have to put 1 into each other square before you can finish one box and get the hammer flying. If you can, join the league JUST before a waypoint, so that you don't carp long enough to get rated, but do have time to put 4-5 pieces down.

- Now that consecutive masterpieces count for more, it's important to consider that, rather than before (where you would leave a small hole in a craftmanship square until the last second, so as to not slow down your momentum). If you don't have many masterpieces yet 1-3, and you need to make a craftmanship (and you have another masterpiece or two ready) then you have to decide whether it will be better to get upto 3-5 in a row, which is decent, or if you should fill the craftmanship, and then immediately come back with the masterpieces. Stalling to get the consecutive masterpieces upto 10-15 is worth it, even if you have to make a "good" or "fair" hole... because at those numbers, you end up with enough momentum often to carry you a league or two at top speed.

Remember, these are just tips.
----------------------------------------
Azure - Fatal and Shadowstrike pirates.
Midnight - Darksteel (Check carp :p)
[Nov 22, 2003 3:02:28 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
stigant



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I find the easiest second-to-last hole to fill at the end is to get:

OO
OO
OOO
OOO


Actually, I find that one the second easiest to fill, but it tends to come up more often than this one:


OOOO
OOO
OOO


The first one can be filled five ways and allows 6 different types of pieces to be used:

XOOO XXOO
XXOO XOOO
XX XX

XXXO XXXX
XOOO OOOX
XO OO

XXXX
XOOO
OO


While there are 7 ways to fill the second hole, and 8 different shapes that can be used:


OXXX XXXX
OOX XOO
OOX OOO
OOX OOO

XXOO XXOO
XOO XXO
XXO XOO

XXXX XOOO
OOX XOO
OOO XXX

XXXX
OXO
OOO

----------------------------------------
Stigs
Minister of Edumacation, All But Malice
SO of Innocent
[Nov 23, 2003 3:13:44 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
NinjaGuy

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I still remember the best tip I ever got

"Hey, you know you can rotate the pieces with a mouse wheel right?"

"O_O"
----------------------------------------
Ninjaguy - Captain of the Mad Mutineers, Prince of the Midnight Armada
[Nov 23, 2003 5:42:31 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.midnightarmada.com    Istealpants21    Istealpants21 [Link]  Go to top 
Crystallina

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I don't use a mouse wheel, I use the C key. And a mouse.

Yes, it's easy. I'm used to it.
----------------------------------------
Rapmasta26, in a surprisingly accurate assessment of many posters' attitude towards things:

 
PLEASE PEOPLE, IF YOU DONT AGREE DONT REPLY!!!!!!!!!!!

[Nov 23, 2003 6:05:00 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    YPP+Crystallina [Link]  Go to top 
CursedBurger

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I'd like to post my opinions on which pieces are good to place in a square (4x4, mostly) hole first, despite that those holes seem to have disappeared. The top of this list are, of course, Utah and the 4-long-with-a-little-nub block, which i dub Tumor, for lack of a better name. Also topping this list is the Line block, but not in 4x4 holes for obviously reasons. Tumor and Utah work very, very nicely together; many holes can be filled purely with a few of them. The worst piece to start a hole off with is, in my opinion, the Plus, because you then require some combination of L's and U's, both semi-rare. I think, between those ends, the order goes, from best to worst,

L Block, Z Block (The squarer type),

S block (The flatter type), Freak Block (My name for the mutant +, even though it's one of my favorites), T block,

U block, W block.
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Are there any pirates on this ship?
And if they sober up,
they'll have us home by morning.
[Nov 25, 2003 2:00:00 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Claudia



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May I point people to the pentominoes alphabet for ease of discussion of the various pieces?

*

(in which Utah is a P, because it's capital letters only)

*(found in http://pubweb.northwestern.edu/~gbuehler/speech.htm )
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Utena of Revolutionary Crew Utena
[Nov 25, 2003 3:23:49 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Nemo
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Claudia wrote: 
May I point people to the pentominoes alphabet for ease of discussion of the various pieces?


Thank you for pointing this out. It's how we refer to the pieces here, but everyone looks at me confusedly when I use it. Likewise when someone tells me they hate the "snake." The what?
----------------------------------------
-Avatar by AlexisAngel-
[Nov 25, 2003 3:35:33 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
54x

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Heheheh. Which block they want you to take out depends if the snake is stiking, slithering, or going up stairs though...
----------------------------------------
Diamondblade, Cartographer, Crimson Tide.
from Midnight.
Dear sir or madam can you read my book, it took me years to write, will you take a look?
[Nov 25, 2003 3:40:50 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.mjwhitehead.com/    raasike54    secondlight5454    32987700 [Link]  Go to top 
triskaideka



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Awww. "Utah" and "Tumor" are so much cooler. :P
[Nov 25, 2003 3:41:18 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Claudia



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"It's not a tumah!"

(yes, it hadda be done)
----------------------------------------
Utena of Revolutionary Crew Utena
----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by Claudia at Nov 25, 2003 4:06:56 AM]
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stigant



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Thank you for pointing this out. It's how we refer to the pieces here, but everyone looks at me confusedly when I use it.


I think part of the problem, for me at least, is that while each of the pieces sort of suggests a capital letter (and I use "sort of suggests" in the loosest possible sense here), the reverse mapping is not as intuitive. For example, if I say the piece that looks like an 'N' to someone who has never seen this mapping before, how likely are they, even after a few minutes of thought, realize which one you're talking about? I would be inclined to think of what you call the U (which if you turned it upside down looks like a lower case n). Or 'F' in which you would have to realize that the small bar of the F is reversed in the pice that it maps to?

And even the forward mapping is a little confusing... why is the V piece V and not L (other than the fact that L was already taken by another piece)? Or why W instead of M? Or Z instead of S?

Its not that it isn't a good system, its just not intuitive enough to say that anybody would invent the same system. Which means, very often, that people, left to their own devices, invent and get used to their own systems rather than yours. In turn, it makes it more difficult for them to accept your system.

I prefer this mapping:
F - square root
I - long or straight
L - L
N - don't really have one for this one, though lightning seems to go both ways a little better
P - Utah
T - T
U - U
V - Corner
W - stairs
X - plus
Y - hammer
Z - Z
----------------------------------------
Stigs
Minister of Edumacation, All But Malice
SO of Innocent
[Nov 25, 2003 4:08:45 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Claudia



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I just like the alphabet one because it's brief, really. And not that ambiguous: L's don't have equal length line segments. V's do. Hence the names.

But I'm not trying to make anybody change, just offer up a naming system to those who have to go "you know, the piece that has a bend..." or whatever.
----------------------------------------
Utena of Revolutionary Crew Utena
[Nov 25, 2003 4:17:12 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Matthias

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A question:

Do some pieces have an unequal probability for the grain they have?

I'm sure that the Z piece at least rarely comes up with vertical grain (that is, like the snake going up stairs).

Matt
----------------------------------------
I took my own advice.
[Nov 25, 2003 10:25:43 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Booklegger

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Yes, there are even some pieces that will NEVER come up with a different grain.

In particular the I, L, and Y pieces will never have a vertical grain, but always a horizontal one.
----------------------------------------
Booklegger -- Manager Forging Ahead, Turtle I.
Cavan -- Officer of the Kamikaze Guppies
Novitiate of the Albertian Order of Leibowitz
[Nov 25, 2003 10:49:47 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    Booksensei    Djinnofkobal [Link]  Go to top 
Claudia



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I know I've never seen a vertical I, but I'd swear I've seen a vertical Y or L. Is this documented anywhere official? I'll have to pay more attention....
----------------------------------------
Utena of Revolutionary Crew Utena
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