• Play
  • About
  • News
  • Forums
  • Yppedia
  • Help
Welcome Guest   | Login
  Index  | Recent Threads  | Register  | Search  | Help  | RSS feeds  | View Unanswered Threads  
  Search  


Quick Go »
Thread Status: Normal
Total posts in this thread: 50
Posts: 50   Pages: 2   [ First Page | Previous Page | 1 2 | Last Page]
[Add To My Favorites] [Watch this Thread] [Post new Thread]
Author
Previous Thread This topic has been viewed 6485 times and has 49 replies Next Thread
Carnasis



Joined: May 23, 2003
Posts: 6
Status: Offline

Re: Trading - just plain trading Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

If the main problem with the economy is the demand part, maybe setting up a commodity exchange on each island would be a good idea. A place where people can place order for raw materials at a given price and quantity. Any merchant can pickup the order and it would be like having a contract for supplying the item. That way you can be sure that no one else can fill the demand while you try and find a source for it.
[Jun 14, 2003 9:09:21 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Hanzii



Joined: Jan 1, 2003
Posts: 452
Status: Offline

Re: ... Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Soma wrote: 
I'm not sure who you have sailing for you, but in my experiance I haven't seen a single crew member I'd rather have a swabby for on the sails. Why wait 2-3 leagues to reach speed when you can do it in 1?


Of course I know players that outdo swabbies on all or select posts.
If I handpicked a crew, they would outperform swabbies.
I'm talking about jobbing pirates or just random crewmembers and the fact that palyers sometimes aren't doing their best (for various) reasons, whereas swabbies are at the same level always - full speed, 2 leagues.

I know I'm not alone in this observation (go read Rengors thread)
----------------------------------------
Hanzii - shipbuilder (retired), Turtle
[Jun 14, 2003 9:43:25 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.lauring.net [Link]  Go to top 
homullus

Member's Avatar


Joined: Dec 10, 2002
Posts: 8824
Status: Offline
Re: Trading - just plain trading Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

But what happens if you, as a merchant, set a contract for some goods, and the player doesn't follow through, either because they got pillaged or just didn't bother? You (as the merchant) would have to get a new contract, and either have to cancel the old contract, or honor both.

I'll take the current system, where the shippers assume the risk. There are buyers for most raw materials, and some are quite scarce. Some are scarce enough that players looking for "contracts" can be sure they'll get a good price for the item should they find it.
[Jun 15, 2003 12:08:13 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    homullus [Link]  Go to top 
Meghaford



Joined: Jul 1, 2002
Posts: 412
Status: Offline

Re: Trading - just plain trading Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

why not have the option to offer contracts or not. Pirates can purchase contracts from merchants, who in turn will guarantee payment on a certain # of goods delivered within a certain period of time. when they return to port with their goods, they click "fullfill contract" and whala, the trade is done, money transfered without ever having to talk to the shopkeeper.

Perks for traders:
- guarranteed purchase of X number of Y goods at Z price (Z price set above the normal trading price to make up for $ spent on the contract)
- Guaranteed that another trader won't scoop in immediately following their departure leaving them with X number of goods sitting in their ship
- long voyages are well worth the trip for rare goods, esp when you are guaranteed they will be bought at x price.

Perks for shopkeepers:
- when pirates don't follow through with contracts, they still have the initial fee paid by traders
- this method esp good for obtaining rare goods, as the traders take on less risk that their goods will not be purchased when they return from their voyage.
- able to automatically publicize their needs instead of by word of mouth, which can get quite tedious. Thus facilitating trading all the more.

It is already possible to do this, but having this automated would greatly facilitate trading, and it gets annoying waiting for a shopkeeper to get online to finish a contract.
----------------------------------------
--Ursela, Captain of the Dastards
... and a few others ...
[Jun 15, 2003 12:59:26 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.rjmlb.com [Link]  Go to top 
Soma



Joined: May 14, 2003
Posts: 316
Status: Offline

fair enough Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

THOUGH, I do notice at times that damage can even creep up on a carpenting swabby.. it's all quite odd.
----------------------------------------
Soma
Castaway of Alpha
Survivor of Old Spice & Nyx's Scions
Officer of Black Death
[Jun 15, 2003 6:25:59 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Hanzii



Joined: Jan 1, 2003
Posts: 452
Status: Offline

Re: Trading - just plain trading Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

So trading is working fine... as l,ong as not too many players make this their main source of income.
But improvements can be made.

So far only trade in iron, wood, hemp and sugarcane make a profit.
Which is kind of a shame with all those tradeable items.
These items you can trade with only one 'pricechecking alt' or a bit of patience - you still need to be in a crew with a ship in both Alpha and Turtle, if you don't want to chance loosing money on a run, where there's no demand.
Profitmargins are low, so spending any money checking prices is bad.
Luckily the alt is free,and the other ship only needs to be a sloop - so far nothing is so much in demand as to warrant anything bigger (if, then the margins are so low, that the two extra swabbies drink it up in rum).

As it is now, trading is perfect for soloing.
There's only a few players consistently as good as swabbies on sailing, and they expect - and deserve - a fair share of the profits.
So trading as a social event cuts your profits in half.

There's also good money to be made foraging... if you use all avaliable alts and call on all your friends in game to come job/forage for you.
Since there's nothing to do on the long trips from archiplago to archiplago, there's no reason to take a huge crew foraging, but once you're there you have five minutes of hectic activity jobbing all your mates and their alts - and then the long trip home (or rather 15 minutes logged out of the game, where the ship finds its own way home)
I'm sure this isn't how the devs envisioned foraging?!

I think a larger population and at least one other populated archiplago, will see an change in trading for the better, until that happens, it's just wait and see.

I don't have any great suggestions so far n- since I think a quick fix here and now, would probably need changing again, once the game grows in population.

But two requests:
We need a dumpster.
A way to get rid of the tonnes of stone and othe unsellable crap we pick up pillaging or foraging.
Or if you don't want the harbours polluted by dumped goods, then warehouses.
Make it a shop (or later, a building you buy). Give shop- and warehouse-owners the possibility of buying for a negative amount - in other words, the trader has the options of keeping the goods, untill he can sell it, buy his own warehouse to store it or pay somebody a small fee to take it of his hands.

The other request is a 'confirm trade' dialogue . The list of goods is long and the letters are smallish, sometimes while checking prices you might have positioned your mouse wrong.
I thought I was buying wood, but bought 77 items of serandite.
... which nobody is buying.
----------------------------------------
Hanzii - shipbuilder (retired), Turtle
[Jun 20, 2003 11:40:53 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.lauring.net [Link]  Go to top 
Hanzii



Joined: Jan 1, 2003
Posts: 452
Status: Offline

Re: Trading - just plain trading Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

A question and another request:

When will we get storehouses or something similar?

Demand is way down now and either a lot of players have discovered trading, making it harder on all of us, or the shop owners just like to change prices on a whim.
Many a time in the last few days, have I checked prices and demand, sailed the seas finding the good in question, returned only to find, that nobody is buying.
Even in a big crew, there's a limit to how many ships we can have laying around in ports, hulls full, waiting for demand to pick up again.
Ship to ship transfers would also help a little -making the big ships nobody sails on somewhat usefull.


The request:
Could you make it so, that shopowners can't try to buy more, than there's room for in the shop?
It's kinda stupid that a shop (In this case Looming...) is trying to buy 81 pieces of hemp at an ok price, but only able to take 67 of the ones I bring back, due to being full.
In that case, it should only say 67 in the 'will buy' column.
----------------------------------------
Hanzii - shipbuilder (retired), Turtle
[Jun 23, 2003 5:12:29 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.lauring.net [Link]  Go to top 
homullus

Member's Avatar


Joined: Dec 10, 2002
Posts: 8824
Status: Offline
Re: Trading - just plain trading Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

It's not a question of changing prices on a whim.

I'm sorry that hemp takes up space, but I have nothing to do with what laws of nature are implemented in the game. I had in fact upped the max hemp that the shop would buy (one of the two things that determine what number shows up in the Will Buy column, along with amount of money in the shoppe), but because of some unsold cloth in the shoppe, there wasn't sufficient room. There would have been enough room before if anyone had bought any of the cloth I had in stock, and I believe there's enough room now. An oversight on my part.

Should the WILL BUY be influenced by available space? Maybe, though it can tell you how badly I want it. Since money is a factor in the number shown (as a limit), perhaps space should also.
[Jun 23, 2003 9:52:13 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    homullus [Link]  Go to top 
Hanzii



Joined: Jan 1, 2003
Posts: 452
Status: Offline

Re: Trading - just plain trading Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Then maybe an extra column to show, what room there is - so we as traders can decide whether it's worth it to hang on to the whatever-it-is-the-shopowner-thinks-he-wants-but-don't-have-room-for until he/she gets the room, or whether we'd be better of trading something else.
But I'm not really keen on more information in that huge spreadsheet.

But the noticeboard we discussed earlier could do the trick:
'I really need hemp, but can't take it of your hands before I sell some cloth - but I'll make it worthwile to you' or a message like that...

As the system stands, traders are stuck with goods, that not only tie up poe, but also prevents further trading.

(and I wasn't being critical of your way of doing business - just using it as an example on a system, that could be improved to help traders)
----------------------------------------
Hanzii - shipbuilder (retired), Turtle
[Jun 23, 2003 10:38:12 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.lauring.net [Link]  Go to top 
homullus

Member's Avatar


Joined: Dec 10, 2002
Posts: 8824
Status: Offline
Re: Trading - just plain trading Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Ship-to-ship, or store-to-ship, WOULD create a use for those big boats nobody uses. I understand player housing is on the way at some point, but I think that's a great idea. The only problem is lack of security, which I suppose would be the disadvantage, since any officer could sell what you'd stored.

Running a store is a lot like trading, in terms of PoE being tied up in inventory, which in turn is taking space away from something more valuable. Just as merchants change prices or demand seemingly inexplicably (to traders), players inexplicably suddenly stop buying.

I think the limit based on space (originally suggested by Hanzii) is better than another column; a limit based on money in the shoppe is already in place, so it makes sense.
[Jun 24, 2003 12:03:06 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    homullus [Link]  Go to top 
Nemo
Artist
Member's Avatar


Joined: Jul 25, 2002
Posts: 6960
Status: Offline
Re: Trading - just plain trading Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

homullus wrote: 
I think the limit based on space (originally suggested by Hanzii) is better than another column; a limit based on money in the shoppe is already in place, so it makes sense.


Noted and on The List.
----------------------------------------
-Avatar by AlexisAngel-
[Jun 24, 2003 2:10:04 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Hanzii



Joined: Jan 1, 2003
Posts: 452
Status: Offline

Re: Trading - just plain trading Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Another gripe* and a stab at a solution.

With commodities sparse and every crew helping their flag build a new island a new not very interesting feature has creeped in:
Commodities camping.
Just like camping in any other game this is immensely boring, but if you want to get a full hold - and you need to with the consumption of rum by swabbies and the added risk of brigands on some routes - this is the only way to go.
Unfortunately it's a way of playing that - again - favours the large crews. Those that have so many ships and poe, that they can just leave one at every dock.
Of course a solo player with one ship and no life, can just as easily camp one dock - but a player in a large crew can camp all docks in the archiplago at once.

My hope is that the final map, will be so huge, that there's always the chance of some remote island having enough of a commodity to make the trip worthwile.

And while considering that, I was thinking - how about alternate routes?
There's a lot of empty ocean. Why not have roundabout routes to far of islands?
Say, a route from Turtle to Byrne, that went north of Papaya (without landing there) that was easy or medium. No brigands to speak of, so only interesting for trading purposes.
It would be longer, so the cost of rum would cut into profits - butit would give the not-so-good swordfighter another option on the hard routes (and the risk of player pirates attacking would still be there)
Maps should be rare (like those to far away archiplagos) making the map trade even more interesting.
A boon to traders and pillaging players more interested in jumping other players than NPP brigands.


*isn't that always the case?
----------------------------------------
Hanzii - shipbuilder (retired), Turtle
[Jul 7, 2003 8:14:07 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.lauring.net [Link]  Go to top 
Livesey



Joined: Jan 18, 2003
Posts: 227
Status: Offline

Re: Trading - just plain trading Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

hehe, commodities camping isn't new; I camped iron to start up my shop. Back then, though, it was a miserable profit/time ratio. (I would do something on another computer while waiting for the next production.)

Free ferries have made it a LOT easier: You can just hop over, buy whatever is available, then get back to what you were doing. (Or hop to the next island)
----------------------------------------
-Hethor
[Jul 8, 2003 1:48:20 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Hanzii



Joined: Jan 1, 2003
Posts: 452
Status: Offline

Re: Trading - just plain trading Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

It's nothing new, sure.
But now it seems to have gone from one way to trade, to the only way to trade.
No room for the casual trader here... unless casual means working on or near the computer running YPP, so you can camp while doing something else.
Not really a cool feature.
----------------------------------------
Hanzii - shipbuilder (retired), Turtle
[Jul 8, 2003 2:50:37 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.lauring.net [Link]  Go to top 
Livesey



Joined: Jan 18, 2003
Posts: 227
Status: Offline

Re: Trading - just plain trading Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Aye, I was tryin to agree with you before. Camping, to me, is always a player response to flawed design.
----------------------------------------
-Hethor
[Jul 8, 2003 3:44:42 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Vgnight



Joined: May 16, 2003
Posts: 138
Status: Offline

Re: Trading - just plain trading Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

camping is boring but oh well if i ever want that jacket i guess im camping.
[Jul 31, 2003 8:30:24 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.puzzlepirates.com    vgnight    vgnight [Link]  Go to top 
homullus

Member's Avatar


Joined: Dec 10, 2002
Posts: 8824
Status: Offline
Re: Trading - just plain trading Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

This might sound like a dumb thing to say, but it's meant to open discussion a bit:

Do we care about casual traders?

That is to say, is trading one of the "occupations" that might require more dedication?
[Jul 31, 2003 11:39:22 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    homullus [Link]  Go to top 
Hanzii



Joined: Jan 1, 2003
Posts: 452
Status: Offline

Re: Trading - just plain trading Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

I would have answered yes.
I consider myself a caual player and I like trading.
But the minute I bought that damn shop, I've been playing way beyond casual.

Damn the Ringers and their damn addictive game!

Now I would say... I don't know. Save me... get me out of the house...
----------------------------------------
Hanzii - shipbuilder (retired), Turtle
[Aug 1, 2003 12:08:38 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.lauring.net [Link]  Go to top 
homullus

Member's Avatar


Joined: Dec 10, 2002
Posts: 8824
Status: Offline
Re: Trading - just plain trading Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

I probably should have defined "casual trader" . . . do we care about somebody who does it every once in a while (as in, not every day)? I mean, we care of course, but do we CATER to them? Or do we care about (cater to) those who trade every time they log in, because they like to (not many people yet) or have to (the shoppekeepers)?
[Aug 1, 2003 12:18:40 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    homullus [Link]  Go to top 
Vgnight



Joined: May 16, 2003
Posts: 138
Status: Offline

Re: Trading - just plain trading Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

the shortage of supplies has started to make a lot more casula and all the time traders believe me. I started to trade and now i got like 10 other people in our crew doing it. Its becoming big
[Aug 1, 2003 1:19:26 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.puzzlepirates.com    vgnight    vgnight [Link]  Go to top 
Posts: 50   Pages: 2   [ First Page | Previous Page | 1 2 | Last Page]
[Show Printable Version of Thread] [Post new Thread]

Puzzle Pirates™ © 2001-2016 Grey Havens, LLC All Rights Reserved.   Terms · Privacy · Affiliates