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Hanzii



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Trading - just plain trading Reply to this Post
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It's been mentioned in the "New release" discussion, that one of the things you can do solo is trading.

I don't see it.


I agree with Rengor, that taking out a small sloop and two swabbies and going somewhere fgast is easy.
One on sail and one on carpentry and me on navigation and we're at full speed in 2-3 leagues. We can outrun most brigands and switching the carpenter to sailing, we can outmanouver any brigand that catches us.
Heck, we even one a 3 on 3 fight (they ran into rocks after 2 cannonballs, this made me cocky and after 3 more cannonballs we had them easy... the 394 poe we won paid the cannonballs and little else...)

But in order for trading to be profitable, a lot of conditions need to be met.
And I'm talking pure solo trading. Not trading and pillaging on the way.

Profitmargins are very low, so you need the seed money to buy in bulk (if only small amounts are avaliable - don't bother)
You must NOt lose a single battle. Get pillaged once, and you're lucky to break even.
And don't fire a single cannonball.
You can't spend to much on rum, so go fast and sell when you arrive.
If they're not buying, you can leave the ship in port till they are - if you're in a small crew, with no ships to spare (waiting somewhere not in the homeport), then your profit will most likely be lost on the extra trip to your home port and back later.

In my opinion profitmargins are too small. Prices fluctuate too much and too often. And both demand and supply is too small.


example:
I took at ship from Turtle to Papaya, spend all my poe on wood, sailed to Alpha (which was paying nicely for wood at 3 different locations only 6 hours earlier) only to find no demand for wood at all (and a price of 1 poe). Not wanting to leave no ships at Turtle (where some crewmembers have their homeport) I returned to Turtle and logged off.
Now all my poe is tied up in wood. If and when I manage to sell ikt, it'll hardly pay for the rum spent.

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Hanzii - shipbuilder (retired), Turtle
[Jun 8, 2003 6:45:26 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.lauring.net [Link]  Go to top 
Ramirez



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Re: Trading - just plain trading Reply to this Post
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Personally, I blame the shopowners. Some unsavory shopkeepers have set their buy price way below the value certain goods. I've noticed this with wood on Alpha as well. Since Turtle produces Wood, you can't usually sell it to Turtle. This means some people are stuck dumping their wood for a loss, and the weeping happens.

Yesterday, I made a small killing on Iron and Sugarcane, though winning a few brigand battles didn't hurt either. Hopefully when people wise up to the pricing games that those shopkeeps are playing, said shopkeeps will be forced to raise their buy prices to stay in business.

Personally, I think it's a very piratey thing to do, gouging traders. But, in a larger archipelago, supply and demand will kick in, and force these scoundrels to respond to the BBB complaints. ;)
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It's seven leagues to Turtle Island. We've got a full cask of rum, half a keg of gunpowder, it's dark, and we're wearing eyepatches. Hit it.
[Jun 9, 2003 12:06:33 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
dnxthx



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Re: Trading - just plain trading Reply to this Post
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I can't speak for all shoppekeepers, but I have *very* low buy prices on things I don't need. I don't intentionally try to gouge players. It would be nice for players to have a place to store their extra goods until the prices went up, and could sell them at a better price. Also, prices are changing a lot as the economy gets established. I can honestly say that this pirate is not part of some pricing 'scheme' out to fleece players.
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[Jun 9, 2003 2:37:47 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
muffy



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Re: Trading - just plain trading Reply to this Post
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dnxthx wrote: 
I can't speak for all shoppekeepers, but I have *very* low buy prices on things I don't need.


As do I. It's a place where I can put the things I've pillaged or traded that no one wants right now. It's not intended for other traders; they'll need to find the place that actually wants these goods.

dnxthx wrote: 

It would be nice for players to have a place to store their extra goods until the prices went up, and could sell them at a better price.


Frederico and I were just talking about this last night - this is presumably the function of the markets on the various islands, but particularly Alpha, which does not produce any raw materials. I would expect that the market would buy at a lowish rate compared to a shoppe, since the market would just be storing the goods for later resale, but they would be providing a service to the player who just brought in 100 wood only to find that someone else had been ahead of them and supplied all the shoppes. So, the wood might sell at 16, be bought by shoppes at 22 or so, and be bought by the market at 18 and sold for 20. A slight profit (not counting rum and such) for the trader and an eventual profit for the market, when the shopkeeper buys surplus from the market for the lower price and immediacy of acquiring the necessary goods.

I don't know that this is how it will work, but it seems reasonable.
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[Jun 9, 2003 2:45:55 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Rengor



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Re: Trading - just plain trading Reply to this Post
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I will agreee with a couple of things said here, prices are low because the supply is sufficient. Where there used to be a shortage of everything, it seems to me that the more common items like wood, sugar, hemp are overproduced. Iron I think is still in decent demand, and you can make quite a bit on that.
If you want to make money you have to spend some time looking into what is really in demand, those are the more rarer minerals and herbs, especially those probably now only available on island in the new archipelagos.
And yes prices are changing every single day, it's quite a complex market now and it takes a little while for it to balance out with every change.
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[Jun 9, 2003 5:28:54 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Hanzii



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Re: Trading - just plain trading Reply to this Post
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But looking at the big picture here, I find that 'looking into what's really in demand' or laying hand on the rarer stuff from the new islands (like stone - that's in demand and doesn't take any space in the hold when you have been unfortunate enough to pillage/forrage the stuff ;) ) isn't really possible if you play by the book.
The amount it'll cost you to check prices by sailing from island to island or go the 100 leagues to an island where you can forrage 100 poe worth of thingymajigs in an hour of mindnumbing waiting for a timer to go down, will eat away your profits.

Now I know we don't play by the book. We log on alts to forrage more and we check prices by juming from crew to crew and ship to ship.
But if all the soloing stuff said in that other thread should hold true, one guy with one pirate and one ship should be able to make at least a small profit just trading.
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Hanzii - shipbuilder (retired), Turtle
[Jun 9, 2003 5:38:08 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.lauring.net [Link]  Go to top 
homullus

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Re: Trading - just plain trading Reply to this Post
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Aye, truly, most of us do not have much markup on our goods, and some things are produced in huge quantities compared to the demand. Some goods are expended -- like iron cannonballs and rum -- but most stay out there in some permanent form. Once somebody buys the outfit they love, they don't necessarily go out and buy another right away, or maybe even ever. While we sit and wait for another customer, traders pile on most of the common resources. We end up with more than enough of what we need.

I don't think I like ideas for spoilage, because that would put me out of business (all that hemp), and some things like minerals don't spoil anyway. I could see clothing wearing out eventually, but I would find that frustrating as well. Some things I've considered:

Carpentry could perhaps be accelerated by small quantities of wood and cloth on board ship, for repairs. Just as people can still perform without rum, repairs should be possible without these things. This would create more consumption-based demand for these items (or really, the ONLY consumption of them). Rum was a real burden at first, but it seems to have leveled off . . . I wouldn't want this consumption to be great, but good captains would keep stocked.

Items could also be consumed in construction (once we get to that point), with a certain amount needed on hand at an island's market every so often for routine repairs. Again, I think the key is having more items be consumed, not just transformed.

And I may be cutting me own throat, but having mineral-based coloration require more minerals, rather than just making them rarer finds.
[Jun 9, 2003 5:42:05 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    homullus [Link]  Go to top 
tw11st38r



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Re: Trading - just plain trading Reply to this Post
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Same thing for me...

Now that the supply is solid, I am full on supplies. So right now, I need to sell my products (Rum, Grog, & Swill) to get back above the line.... I've filled my storerooms so much that I have to reap some profits before I can buy more...

So as others have pointed out, it's a balance...

If anything needed to be tweaked, I would say we now have a little too much supply.... not much, but a little.

I'm guessing it will balance out as the game progresses...

Blackdeath
[Jun 9, 2003 8:57:03 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Hanzii



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Re: Trading - just plain trading Reply to this Post
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I'm looking forward to when shipwrights start working - then wood will be a commodity again... not just deadweight.

That and a complete wipe... ;=)
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Hanzii - shipbuilder (retired), Turtle
[Jun 9, 2003 9:31:01 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.lauring.net [Link]  Go to top 
Cryptic



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Re: Trading - just plain trading Reply to this Post
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Well honestly who can see wood being in demand? As was said it's a fixed cost in buying a ship.

Make it variable - but affordable. Wood for carpenting anyone?

Edit: wood for housing plots?
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Cryptic

When the fell moon rises and kingdoms fall
There's a time of darkness before cock's call
When the Tide washes in from windward to lee
And she leaves behind her a blood-red sea
[Jun 9, 2003 11:26:24 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Vixen



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Re: Trading - just plain trading Reply to this Post
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REF - my shop

People moaned cause I wasn't paying enough for hemp at the start to make it worthwhile trading it, then they moaned about the price off cloth, go figure.


The price of hemp is dropping, but thats constantly being countered by the cost of the rarer minerals, I'm quiet happy to drop the price of hemp even more but I would have to increase the price for certain minerals, which would make certain colors VERY expensive. sometimes 3 or more shopkeepers are competing for the same which gives us no choice but to try and outbid each other


Another thing is, its my ship and my friends which having been making a 2 hour + voyage to bring small ammounts of the rarer stuff back (40 league trip), if the price of certain mineral/herds drops it wont be worth my while (until the lack of plunderable ships gets fixed at least) to go exploring for these things
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Vixen - Captain of The Black Widows.
[Jun 9, 2003 5:59:12 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Hanzii



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Re: Trading - just plain trading Reply to this Post
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Checking prices:

As stated before, people are "cheating" right now just to make trading remotely profitable.
Having a ship in every port (well at least Alpha and turtle) and having at least one alt in another port.
This of course means, that small crews with only one ship, don't have the same immediate access to pricing information.

How to fix that?
Unless you start going SCS like SWG (Which I REALLY wouldn't recommend), then there's no limiting the power of alts. But by making prices avaliable on the docks (noticeboard?), you can at least give all crews, big and small, the same opportunities.
Well, bigger crews can still spread their alts around, but now their lead will be due to number of members, not number of ships/poe.
You'd still need to travel to far away ports with this system, but don't have to take the risk/expenses of taking your own ship... but going on a navy ship/ferry will take time, and prices can still change in this time - making trading easier but still risky.

The big picture:
A closed playerrun economy is hard work. Have it succeeded in any other MMOGs?
To make it work you'll need players to keep buying stuff, to create demand.
Either by having a constant influx of new players eager to buy clothes, weapons, ships and houses. Or by having tonnes of stuff for players to buy and keep adding new (and more expensive stuff) as players accumulate wealth and buy one of everything.
The first is good, since you'd want new players to come to YPP anyway, but unless you want to turn existing players away, the economy can't rely on this.
Unless there's always something bigger, better or flashier for players to buy, money will start accumulating in players pockets - outside the economy.
We're seeing that right now. Some of us still needs more/better swords, but that's about it. New players are buying clothes too - but how many outfits does the rest of us need?
We can buy bigger ships, but since the shipwrights seem to be buying only iron and cloth, that's no big help to the economy (plenty of wood and minerals for coloring, should be on that list as well... and then we'll need a market for used ships, or they'll be prohibitive expensive). And with pillaging "broken" and supply to low to even fill a sloop, there's really no reason other than showing off, for buying an expensive ship.

The playerwipe:
So here comes the unpopular suggestion
Once all shops are up and running, we need to test the new economy proper. It's not really working now, and one reason is, that players really don't need that much stuff.
Another is, that they're making too little money compared to prices of stuff.
With pillaging this slow, I've been averaging about 150-200 poe by playing 2-3 hours daily.
That's not even enough to buy footwear. If this game is supposed to be casual friendly - and how can a puzzle game be anything else (you shouldn't be aspiring to compete with SWG or EQ/EQ2) - then earnings needs to be greater.

I'm unemployed irl right now, but I still make enough daily to buy new (cheap) footwear every day, should I so desire. YPP is supposed to be a fun game, not a poverty simulator ;)

So once all the shops are working as intended, we need to have a natural player demand, to test the economy. Only one way to do this.
A complete wipe.
I don't see a problem in keeping crew information and ratings, but all poe, clothes, ships, swords and maps should vanish.

Don't cry, we're after all ALPHA-testing a game for the nice people.
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Hanzii - shipbuilder (retired), Turtle
[Jun 9, 2003 6:47:53 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.lauring.net [Link]  Go to top 
homullus

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Re: Trading - just plain trading Reply to this Post
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A wipe eventually will probably be needed, but I'm not convinced it is the cure right now. When the economy really is fixed, whatever that means, it will fix itself and have normal fluctuations. A wipe now would only "test" what will happen when the economy first starts . .. after that, it will be the same as it is now.
[Jun 9, 2003 11:49:20 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    homullus [Link]  Go to top 
Nemo
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Re: Trading - just plain trading Reply to this Post
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Wipes will be necessary and inevitable, but as Homullus said, a full wipe wouldn't help the economy. Every time we've started up a part of the economy everything got thrown out of whack. That's just what happens when you start an economy from scratch in an established economic climate.
A full wipe would mean no money for a distiller, as well as no sugarcane, which would mean no rum until someone can pillage from the only outside source of funds. Of course, you can't pillage without rum, and that's not even adressing ships. Everyone would be reduced to puzzling on Navy ships for hours until someone could buy the first ship... but from whom?
Certainly wiping some parts would boost the economy, but that wouldn't be as helpful a test as letting in some of the horde new players. New players pump the economy and do so while leaving its infrastructure intact. More importantly, it is more congruent with post-launch situations. As Hanzii points out, the higher-end purchases are limited. What drives higher-end players will more likely be power and influence, not pretty outfits--they already have all they could want. Flags and government will certainly allow for greater higher-end expenditure as well as higher-end gameplay (colonizing new islands takes quite an effort), but it's the small cogs that drive any economic machine.

Checking prices-
With the implementation of a ferry (as had been discussed in more than one other thread) players could move quickly (for a fee) from one island to another, checking market rates if they like. Also, we are moving forward with having limited-information villagers who can give tips on trading.

And, Hanzii, good footwear was expensive! These pirates did not live in the days of Payless shoes. But I do see your consternation. Hopefully the adjustments Cleaver has mentioned will aid you in your quest for affordable cobbling.

-Nemo
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[Jun 10, 2003 2:14:51 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Hanzii



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I have more virtuel shoes, than I have ever had in real life (but probably not as many as my wife).
It's not that I need footwear - I was just making a point about "wages" and spending power. And since there's still no McDonalds on anyu of the islands found, I couldn't use the McDonalds index like The Economist does.

About the wipe.
Yeah, I see it would spell trouble for a while to do it. And I didn't suggest it as a fix, but as a test. Not doing it - when all the elements of the economy is in place - would keep the game like today, with loads of goods allready bought, when they were cheap and money were plentiful, without producing the kinds of trickle down effects their purchase would in the working economy.
I find the economy as it stands now, not adding but rather subtracting from the fun, the only way to test it and find a balance like the one you'd want at release with paying customers (not as patient as us), would be to get all the elements in and start from scratch.
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Hanzii - shipbuilder (retired), Turtle
[Jun 10, 2003 3:31:54 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.lauring.net [Link]  Go to top 
homullus

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Re: Trading - just plain trading Reply to this Post
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I think I said this before . . . in fact, yeah, I did, on this thread even. I think too many goods are being transformed into permanent status items ONLY, rather than being consumed in maintenance-type activity. Maintenance can be a drag, but it can also keep the economy going. New players are a huge boost, and the pirate-gods willing, there will be a steady stream of new players for a while to come, but when they reach our level, they will be in the same boat, so to speak. Colonizing islands will also help a ton, but to slow the rate at which players expand, I think we need some small drains in the economy.

I mentioned having cloth and wood on board being a boost to carpentry performance . . . what about its presence enabling a ship to be repaired for a fee (scaled to damage) in a port? No more repair missions for those who have cash, and it creates consumption of some goods. It would also create a reason for players to want to trade or pillage common things like wood and cloth (or hemp, if they want to have stuff made) for their own purposes, rather than focusing solely on being a medium.

Are random events possible? Like a storm damaging (but never sinking) all ships at a given island?
[Jun 10, 2003 5:07:24 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    homullus [Link]  Go to top 
Ely



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Definitely. I have wanted to see carpentry become a resource consumer for a while now. I just don't want to see it ticking through materials so fast that anything less than a perfect pillaging run results in monetary loss.

Lots of ways to tackle that, though. For instance, you could have the resources only kick in when the damage edges out of a green zone and into a red zone, where heavier repairs are needed. Crews who manage to maintain their ship well will end up spending less on the heavy wood and cloth using repairs.

Weather is something else I have wanted to see, and I bet the devs have some plans in mind for some stuff down the road. I really dig the Sim City random disasters idea, that's a good one.
[Jun 10, 2003 5:24:11 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    Ely114 [Link]  Go to top 
homullus

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Re: Trading - just plain trading Reply to this Post
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What he said. Having material like cloth and wood used up even as fast as rum is unpleasant to contemplate (though I have no problem with the current rum usage rate). It could stay optional, either with the pay-for-port-repair choice, or with the optional boost to carpentry results. Either way, having it get used up every trip would be frustrating, as well as having it turn voyages that are currently marginally profitable to losses. Again, the ideal would be that one can make do, or do better than make do, without it, but do better with it.
[Jun 10, 2003 6:33:49 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    homullus [Link]  Go to top 
stevoid



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Re: Trading - just plain trading Reply to this Post
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Hanzii wrote: 
Checking prices:

As stated before, people are "cheating" right now just to make trading remotely profitable.
Having a ship in every port (well at least Alpha and turtle) and having at least one alt in another port.
This of course means, that small crews with only one ship, don't have the same immediate access to pricing information.


If you choose not to use alts that's your prerogative, but I don't see using an option provided as cheating. If it is then the devs are welcome to ban it or limit it somehow when they see how they are being (mis?)used. But really, it's much quicker and easier to use /tell to ask a pirate already on Alpha if something is needed, than log off one pirate, log on another to look at the demand, and then have the original pirate wait for a navy ship to get them back to the market where I saw it and left the ship. Which is just as available to a single player as a huge crew. So is "cheating" talking to other people too?
[Jun 10, 2003 7:12:34 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Hanzii



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There's a difference between "cheating" and cheating.
I'm using alts just as good as the next person.
I was just talking about a system, that doesn't favor the crew with the poe to have a throwaway ship in every port.


homullus wrote: 


what about its presence enabling a ship to be repaired for a fee (scaled to damage) in a port? No more repair missions for those who have cash, and it creates consumption of some goods.


This is a good idea. A moneysink that hurts noone, but really boosts the economy.
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Hanzii - shipbuilder (retired), Turtle
[Jun 10, 2003 7:34:19 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.lauring.net [Link]  Go to top 
homullus

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Leaving aside the "if I can do it in the game as it is, it's not cheating" debate, I'm not sure I see how checking prices is cheating, against either the letter OR the spirit of the law. The price is the same, whether you look or not. The same goods are available whether you look or not. You get them no faster. Knowing the prices at your destination can help you make some informed decisions, but it doesn't ensure that your supply or their demand will still be there when you pull into port. And, you can always ask somebody who's there.

That said, since it's checkable by virtually everyone, why not make it easier? Have a notice board in the market -- another use for a beautiful but virtually-unused building -- with the same info that appears on commodities trading screens, only without the commodities trading.

NPP rumors would be good for a shipment of something rare that has shown up at the Cnossos market, for instance, turning it into a race for the goods. Actually, that's not such a good idea . . . one could change the citizenship of an alt and put them on such islands with a ship, allowing them to buy commodities when they came in. Not so fun.
[Jun 10, 2003 7:43:10 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    homullus [Link]  Go to top 
GeneralLabor



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I find this thread interesting. I recall just a few weeks ago there was a similar thread that discussed just the opposite that there were not enough natural resources being produced. My sympathy goes to the devs because I have dealt with similar issues in projects that I have been involved in. Customer is delivered a solution that will work but they want changes, then that work great short term but in the long run it messed it up and now they want it back to the way it was.

Many complained that there were just not enough resources to make a living at trading. The kind devs bumped everything up to make us happy and that lasted just long enough for everyone to max out on the essential commodities. Now we complain that to much is being produced and we ship it and no one wants to buy it. I think it is our own darn fault. I believed at the time and still do that they had probably set it just right. There was a huge demand and limited supply. This would have leveled out with time and left it so that some, not all, could make a living at trading if they felt lucky. Many would try trading and through not making enough, since the supply was low, would stick to pillaging. Those that really wanted to trade would continue and find was to make a profit, as has been discussed here about parking boats. Had they left it as it was I think that right now we would all be satisfied as traders and shopkeepers in what was produced and delivered. That is all part of a free trade economy. Limited resources means higher prices, infinite resources means I can pay what I want to buy them off you cause you only have so many ships to fill up till you can?t buy anymore.

I am sure that there will be many more rounds of ups and downs in respect to the trading but I think it should be left alone for the most part.

I also agree that there is a need for more consumables. I have only so many clothes that I will ever wear because what I wear makes me who I am. Others know me, and I them by what they wear. You can only buy so many swords, you will have your favorites and I doubt many will invest to the point of having one of every blade, hilt and design combination. You will only have so many shops, so many houses, so many ships, and so many maps. I also think that consumables need to be looked at, there either needs to be more consumables or the supply of the raw materials needs to be less.

This will be very tricky to find a balance that pleases the traders, shopkeepers, and the buyers.

After a wipe I think that there are two ways to do things, either seed the shops with supplies so that the crews can raise the money to buy the ships and maps and rum and cannonballs so that they can race to be the first out there to pillage and trade or don?t seed the resources but give each team a ship that they start using immediately to start bringing back the supplies to allow further growth.

With the second it might be helpful for me to be able to make a deposit of materials at a shop to go towards my purchase so that I can gather what I need over time to get the next item (cloth, rum, boat, sword?.) with out having to dump it now and allow whoever gets lucky and orders when enough supplies have been traded to create the next item?

Wow that was lengthy for me?
[Jun 10, 2003 2:26:07 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Hanzii



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I don't agree, that the devs had ikt just right, but messed up to please us.
What we had was only the limited edition of the economy - I'm quite sure this more complex version, is closer to what the devs vision was all along.
And that it's not quite right yet is no big surprise - after all what's testing for?
So we're not whining, we're trying to help out.

I don 't think a wipe needs to be totally devastating. After all, we all know how to work on the navy ships and whatnot.
There would be nothing wrong if the devs assigned player shopkeepers, gave them seed money and told them, that if they lost/squandered that money, they would be replaced as shopowners (players could apply for the job beforehand or those that have shops now could contiunue).
Everybody else could start out with say 3000 poe - not enough to buy your own ship, but enough to set the economy rolling (some would pool the crews seed money and invest in ships, other would buy that captains jacket they coveted for weeks).

Some of those not assigned a shop would probably cry 'unfair' - byt hey it's testing, it doesn't need to be fair.
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Hanzii - shipbuilder (retired), Turtle
[Jun 10, 2003 3:13:23 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.lauring.net [Link]  Go to top 
Ely



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We were supposed to get our clothing inventory wiped prior to the shops opening, but, for some reason, that never fell through.

Anyway...

GeneralLabor wrote: 
This will be very tricky to find a balance that pleases the traders, shopkeepers, and the buyers.


I really want to see more features in game that consume resources and keep the economic wheels turning. But, as it has been said, this is tricky. It's even more tricky when you keep in mind that the most popular level of play for people, by far, will be the casual gaming experience. The last thing we want is to tack a tedious and expensive milk run onto every tasks in the game (although this would help).

With all that said, how do people feel about item loss or destruction? We know that a flag at war with someone will have the ability to destroy their enemy's ship, and possibly loot items from a defeated foe's inventory, but I suspect most will avoid that sort of "hardcore" PvP. Personally, I am open to items such as clothing and swords wearing and tearing over time. Something within reason--obviously not so bad that someone has to see their tailor every 2 hours or have their coats turn to rags. Say a repair once a real-life week of regular play. Even if you only had to buy a labor hour and 20 PoE in thread a week, that's 20 PoE more than nothing. The cumulative need of thousands would boost resource consumption, and keep those who otherwise wouldn't be buying trickling money into those businesses and markets.

I've been against item wear in most games because it was done so poorly. In every other game it's like a timer alerting you when you have to stop having fun and go repair your stuff. Would anyone want it in Y!PP if it were done in a way that was less obstructive to play?
[Aug 9, 2005 4:00:00 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    Ely114 [Link]  Go to top 
Rengor



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GeneralLabor wrote: 
This will be very tricky to find a balance that pleases the traders, shopkeepers, and the buyers.

Precisely, and contrary to your comments on us unreasonably complaining, and the first edition economy being right on the money (pun intended).
No one is expecting the economy at this stage to be perfect, it's an Alpha after all. But if we dont argue for our complaints at this stage then the subscribers will complain with their credit card when it goes live.

I like the idea of consumables as well. As long as it doesn't become a tedious constant chore to repair ships, buildings, swords, clothes etc. But to some degree just enough to keep breathing life into the economy.
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[Aug 9, 2005 4:00:00 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Hanzii



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Some more observations.

I'm doing better now. Much better.
Made 1200 poe trading this afternoon, and even more yesterday (but that had to do with being attacked several times and winning with the help of my trusty crew and that teleporting device, we all know from history, pirates had on thir deck - and then stumbling upon some krakens blood)

But today, I made 1200 on wood and iron in a small sloop with just me and 2 swabbies. No other players.

I've learned how to travel fast. I've learned what to trade where. And I've learned how not to be attacked. Should I be attacked I've learned how to use cannons and win.
But the main reason, is that I've learned to use the fact, that I'm online, when all my competitors are sleeping.
A strategy I hope won't work in the long run.

So I still think, that both demand and supply should be beefed, if more than a few lucky traders shall persist.

I've also learned some not so cool things.
It pays to be alone.
No players are as good as swabbies in generating speed when sailing. Even Ultimate players generate speed slower than swabbies.
Players are equal to swabbies in keeping damage down using carpentry - but most players don't like capentry, so you use swabbies.

If you're too high ranked in seabattles, brigands target you more often (and they're harder). If you don't want to risk loosing, or don't want the speedloss a seabattle causes, you use a trademule ranked able in seabattles and never players instead of swabbies.
All players like seabattles (we're pirates after all), so all players are quickly higher ranked than swabbies.

transporting my one piece of kraken's blood from WS to Turtle I rejected the help of my crew to stay quick and safe while travelling (loosing a seabattle takes 10% across the line. Stuff you have only 1 of, will always go). Calling on them if I was attacked. Kind of antisocial to have your crew standing on the docks waiting if you should get attacked and need them.

I don't quite have the solution for this, since I still want trading to be avaliable while soloing (heck it's often all I can do). But actually preferring swabbies to crewmates isn't good.
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Hanzii - shipbuilder (retired), Turtle
[Jun 14, 2003 4:33:30 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.lauring.net [Link]  Go to top 
homullus

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Or at least, preferring swabbies to players for how they work in the game is bad.
[Jun 14, 2003 8:38:18 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    homullus [Link]  Go to top 
jollyroger23



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Yeah, its hard to do the puzzles and actually do good for your ship. I think they need to be a little easier.
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[Jun 14, 2003 3:14:02 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Hanzii



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homullus wrote: 
Or at least, preferring swabbies to players for how they work in the game is bad.


True, that was what I tried to say.

If you just don't like playing with others, that's your business.
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Hanzii - shipbuilder (retired), Turtle
[Jun 14, 2003 7:17:54 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.lauring.net [Link]  Go to top 
Soma



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I'm not sure who you have sailing for you, but in my experiance I haven't seen a single crew member I'd rather have a swabby for on the sails. Why wait 2-3 leagues to reach speed when you can do it in 1?
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Soma
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Survivor of Old Spice & Nyx's Scions
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[Jun 14, 2003 8:58:08 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
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